Almost convinced, have questions.

[almost2mac]

Been a pc user since the 80s after using apple IIe in school. I'm almost convinced to take the plunge and try a mac and I'm a little torn between two possible setups.

One of the main reasons to switch is that other members of my family are not computer savvy at all and I'm repeatedly having to log into their desktops and repeat the maintenence I do to keep the gig and a half of ram free. It's a monster of a gaming rig but I'm the only person who plays heavy-duty 3d games, and the pc is great for that, but I'm getting complaints that their seperate desktops on win XP are "slow". This is because after finally teaching them the intricacies of the right mouse button, I can't imagine what hoops it will take to teach them about the system tray and msconfig to keep it running smoothly. They're also real bad about surfing the spyware sites, and thankfully norton is playing goalie to the viruses that occasionally attack.

The dealbreaker is that my familial userlings are really into the flash/shockwave games on sites such as popcap and pogo. (I know these install quasi-spyware, but we live with that.) This might be a stupid question, but do these games operate on the MacOs? I have no idea if shock/flash are the same.

Part of me wants to get the barebones mini just to try it out and see if they can even comprehend the operating system before splurging; the other part of me wants a 20" imac because it's preeetty. I'm afraid to ask if an apple store would exchange a mini within 30 days if we love it and want more power. Has anyone had experience with this? If I bought a mini and didn't care for it I would still keep it and use for an internet terminal or something.

What I want to avoid is long term swapping of the monitor/mouse/keyboard, which essentially means I should test the mini and then get it a dedicated monitor if I like it. But the imac is soooo....preeettyyyy.... If I didn't also have a laptop I'd just get that as my second computer, but does anyone have recommendations?

I know the imac has accessible ram upgrade slots, and I'm guessing that by default like every manufacturer they fill all the slots instead of leaving you a free one for an easy (cheaper!) upgrade. The mini is not so accessible I'm told and requires a putty knife. I noticed if you configure a mac on the apple store you *can* choose to put in 1 512 chip instead of 2x256 for no charge, would a store do that as well? Is that something that can be done in a same day purchase or would I have to leave it there and come back?

Thanks for any advice, I'm looking forward to rediscovering a mac. Last time I had a training class and they set me in front of one I literally did the clueless user freeze, unable to find something to right click on!

Oh and one other thing...I know I just need to go look at the imac in person but we have a 19" crt monitor. It might be an optical illusion possibly caused by the "chin" but the display from the small pictures on the apple store site *seems* small. My laptop is a 17" widescreen, is that basically the same as the 17" imac? I've a feeling they might think a 17" is small in comparison.

[Fahrenheit]

Dude, just get an iMac. You'll love it. Yes the games will play - just need the plugins (AFAIK)

[Brad]

Welcome to AppleNova, almost2mac! :)

On to the specifics:
They're also real bad about surfing the spyware sites, and thankfully norton is playing goalie to the viruses that occasionally attack.
You'll be happy to note that security issues and malware problems are practically nonexistent today on Mac OS X. Even security agencies like Symantec (maker of Norton) have nice things to say (http://www.symantec.com/enterprise/security_response/weblog/2006/07/macinenterprise_mac_os_x_virus.html) about Mac OS X. That's not to say Mac OS X is invulnerable, but so far in over five years since the first version of Mac OS X, it's not been a problem at all.

This might be a stupid question, but do these games operate on the MacOs? I have no idea if shock/flash are the same.
The Macromedia Adobe Flash plugin is included with Mac OS X and future versions can be downloaded from Macromedia Adobe. Everything that works in the Windows version should work exactly the same in the Mac version. I've never come across a site using Flash or Shockwave that wouldn't work on my Macs.

Part of me wants to get the barebones mini just to try it out and see if they can even comprehend the operating system before splurging; the other part of me wants a 20" imac because it's preeetty.
Why not just take a weekend day and park yourself in front of a Mac at an Apple Store? :) Better yet, check the workshop schedule at your local Apple Store. They routinely have a person standing by a projector screen explaining the basics of Mac OS X and various features. You don't have to schedule an appointment; just come in as you please and sit and watch if you're interested.

I'm afraid to ask if an apple store would exchange a mini within 30 days if we love it and want more power. Has anyone had experience with this?
Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely to happen. You can return a Mac within 2 weeks (complete with all papers and packaging material), but you will be charged a restocking fee (I think 10%).

I noticed if you configure a mac on the apple store you *can* choose to put in 1 512 chip instead of 2x256 for no charge, would a store do that as well? Is that something that can be done in a same day purchase or would I have to leave it there and come back?
I don't have personal experience with this; so, I'll let someone else answer.

we have a 19" crt monitor
Remember, though, that the effective viewing area of a CRT is an inch or two less than the measurable spec. An LCD's viewing area is the full size. A 17" LCD has the same effective viewing area as a 19" CRT (just as a 15" LCD = 17" CRT). However, note that the widescreen aspect may makes it "shorter" and may account for that feeling that it's smaller. You should definitely see one in person, though, as you said.

My laptop is a 17" widescreen, is that basically the same as the 17" imac?
Correct.

Good luck with your shopping! :) Feel free to spout off any questions or concerns you have.

[almost2mac]

Thanks for your help! I'm looking forward to my journey to the apple store.

Someone had mentioned in another thread that flat-panel monitors that are bigger visually look lower resolution because they're fitting the same pixels into a bigger area. This was a different company...I'm assuming since a 20" imac costs a good deal more and is specifically built that this isn't an issue with them...

[Robo]

Thanks for your help! I'm looking forward to my journey to the apple store.

Someone had mentioned in another thread that flat-panel monitors that are bigger visually look lower resolution because they're fitting the same pixels into a bigger area. This was a different company...I'm assuming since a 20" imac costs a good deal more and is specifically built that this isn't an issue with them...

That's only if the monitors are the same resolution. But, in the case of the the 20" iMac, the display is higher resolution than the 17" iMac display, so it's not just visually larger - more stuff can actually fit on the screen.

Good luck with your purchasing decisions! I second the suggestion about the iMac - just use Mac OS for an afternoon. I'm sure you'll love it.

[Brad]

Roboman is correct.

The last time this was an issue for Apple was with the iBooks. Both the 12" and 14" iBooks had the same 1024*768 resolution. So, even though the 14" screen was "bigger", you couldn't fit any more content onto it.

[Robo]

I noticed if you configure a mac on the apple store you *can* choose to put in 1 512 chip instead of 2x256 for no charge, would a store do that as well? Is that something that can be done in a same day purchase or would I have to leave it there and come back?

Normally, BTO (Build To Order) options are not available at an Apple Store. (Sometimes they do sell special configurations of Macs at Apple Stores, though, such as the MacBook "Ultimate.") My gut reaction would be that they wouldn't adjust the RAM like that, but it wouldn't hurt to ask - I've been surprised by Apple Stores before. (Some claim that they're more likely to bend the rules if you mention that this is your very first Mac, but that didn't help me when I purchased my first Mac - they sold me the wrong keyboard and mouse! Of course, I'm also a pushover.)

[Robo]

Roboman is correct.

The last time this was an issue for Apple was with the iBooks. Both the 12" and 14" iBooks had the same 1024*768 resolution. So, even though the 14" screen was "bigger", you couldn't fit any more content onto it.

Yup. All of Apple's current monitors boast larger resolutions as they grow in inches, so they're all sharp.

[almost2mac]

Thinking of making the switch from pc to mac. One annoyingly important thing is my family members subscribe to shockwave.com, which lets you download full versions of their games that often play in free versions within the browser, but more and more of these games download the trial version and let you play for an hour if you're not a subscriber with no embedded web version.

These have always downloaded as a .exe file. and I've never seen any mention of mac on their site. Has anyone had any experience with this or know if they're pc only?

[almost2mac]

I actually made a mistake...the option on apple.com was if you upgrade from 512 you can get a gig in either 1 chip or 2x512 for the same price.

Imac has two slots for ram, right? I'm assuming it comes out of the box with two 256 chips, so you have to scrap them if you want to upgrade. Is this correct?

[spikeh]

Thinking of making the switch from pc to mac. One annoyingly important thing is my family members subscribe to shockwave.com, which lets you download full versions of their games that often play in free versions within the browser, but more and more of these games download the trial version and let you play for an hour if you're not a subscriber with no embedded web version.

These have always downloaded as a .exe file. and I've never seen any mention of mac on their site. Has anyone had any experience with this or know if they're pc only?

These sound like the sort of things you wouldn't want running on your PC anyway, but the problem would be solved by dual-booting an Intel Mac with OS X and Windows XP. I have to be honest: I bought my MacBook Pro with this intention but after partitioning and installing bootcamp, it was too much grief to see WinXP running on my beautiful machine (especially after the loveliness of OS X), so I just deleted the partition and had done with it.

Don't miss Windows at all :-)

[MCQ]

Imac has two slots for ram, right?


Correct.


I'm assuming it comes out of the box with two 256 chips, so you have to scrap them if you want to upgrade. Is this correct?

Bad assumption. :)

http://www.apple.com/imac/whatsinside.html


Memory 512MB (single SODIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300), supports up to 2GB


So, out of the box there is one SODIMM slot free.

[almost2mac]

These sound like the sort of things you wouldn't want running on your PC anyway, but the problem would be solved by dual-booting an Intel Mac with OS X and Windows XP. I have to be honest: I bought my MacBook Pro with this intention but after partitioning and installing bootcamp, it was too much grief to see WinXP running on my beautiful machine (especially after the loveliness of OS X), so I just deleted the partition and had done with it.

Don't miss Windows at all :-)

Heh...and therein lies my dilemma. The whole point of getting a mac was to replace the pc that my family is gumming up with spyware and applications. I already *have* a superpowered PC, so I'm not keen on spending $1700 for a new system and then paying for another copy of XP to have basically the same problem and my pockets are two grand lighter.

It's really sad, but this one issue might be what keeps me from switching. I'm definitely keeping the pc since I've got it optimized to run my hardcore 3d games, but stupid Zuma and Diner Dash will be what will keep my family resistant to trying something new.

[almost2mac]

Oh...nice... Point in the mac column; every pc I've bought fills every available slot.

Does the mac have the any issues regarding running two differently-speeded sticks? IE, could I upgrade them one at at a time?

[Luca]

Different SPEED RAM modules? Well, as far as I know, every computer made in the last several years will simply run every RAM module at the speed the motherboard is designed to use. So you can use PC3200 RAM in a computer that normally takes PC2700, and it'll just run at PC2700 speeds. You should be able to mix and match different RAM speeds as long as they're all at least as fast as what the computer is designed to take, and in this regard there's no difference between Macs and PCs.

If you're referring to different sized modules, it's a little different. Apple recommends using matched pairs of RAM in order to get dual-channel mode, but I've seen a few benchmark tests where the improvement is almost nothing. So don't go out of your way to get matched pairs.

[almost2mac]

If you're referring to different sized modules, it's a little different. Apple recommends using matched pairs of RAM in order to get dual-channel mode, but I've seen a few benchmark tests where the improvement is almost nothing. So don't go out of your way to get matched pairs.

Sorry, that's what I meant.

[csb]

I'm not familiar with gaming on the mac as i don't play game other than some flash stuff on the net.
There are some sites and some of those games that don't work (not sure about the new intel mac's, however
I switched from a PC a few years ago and few things i can say 1: I went for an eMac but after using it for a few months i was sorry i didn't get an iMac and 2: I don't see myself going back to PC's ever and every one who i know who switched feels the same way. 3: As far as maintenance I have had to do very little other than run disc utility once in a while (like when updating the OS and maybe once or twice a year just to keep things cleaned up, and that would be a the total of my maintenance)
I remember talking to PC Tech support just about once a month but since switching over I have had to contact Apple Care only three times (Apple Care end for me this December) and when i finished with then i felt silly because the solution was simple and i was used to a million steps in the windows world.
I can't wait to buy my next Mac which will be an iMac.
whatever you buy good luck and enjoy it

[almost2mac]

Okay...T minus 1 day and counting...till I have a day off and can go look at the mac store which is on the other side of the city.

I was originally not wanting to do the whole boot camp thing, but after doing some reading about it...didn't realize it was a free beta utility. I was thinking I'd have to pay for that and another copy of windows.

The other possibility I thought of...I'm going to do some searching on the apple site, but is there anything on an imac that allows *input* from another computer? My current computer has a graphics card with both types of connections for flatscreen and crt. Is there some sort of magic firewire thing on the back of an imac that would allow it to be used as a monitor for something else?

[PB PM]

As long as you have a legal copy of Windows XP Pro with SP2 or XP Home, Boot camp will work. BC itself does not have Windows, you install it just like on any other machine.

[Brad]

I was originally not wanting to do the whole boot camp thing, but after doing some reading about it...didn't realize it was a free beta utility. I was thinking I'd have to pay for that and another copy of windows.Boot Camp itself is free, but you do still have to supply your own paid copy of Windows. Installing the same copy from another machine won't work; at least, Microsoft won't activate it.

The other possibility I thought of...I'm going to do some searching on the apple site, but is there anything on an imac that allows *input* from another computer?
Not probably as you want. You can use Microsoft's Remote Desktop with a Windows box or VNC with any computer, but because they operate over the network, the display refresh in these apps is pretty slow and inadequate for playing most games. Plus, there's no sound transmitted with either of these solutions. RD and VNC are only really useful for using office/productivity apps.

[almost2mac]

Right...I knew that I have to have a copy of windows. As long as it has SP 2 is what I'm inferring from what I've read on the site. I was just thinking bootcamp was a utility I'd have to pay for as well.