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View Full Version : Purchasing Audio Gear, Need Confirmation I've got the Right Stuff


Moogs
2006-09-28, 11:38
Hey guys. I'm embarking a couple of creative projects that will require some voice-over recordings via my G5. I don't have any huge ambitions audio-wise. Just bouncing some Sountrack Pro mixes and recorded voice-overs onto DVD basically. Here's what I don't have: Firewire Audio Interface to make the actual recording; Simple Mic; Monitors (not even convinced I need these vs. my Monsoon planar speakers); and the simple stands and stuff like that.

Here's what I'm thinking I should get based on prior advice and additional research / time:

Audio Interface (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=379066&is=REG&m=Y)

Mic (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=326793&is=REG)

Monitors (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=352922&is=REG)

Cables (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=68097&is=REG)

and a simple pop-filter. Anyone think I'm going overboard with the Mic or monitors? A good way to know what I want is to go to the Aperture page and click Tutorials. From there listen to the announcer. Some of their items seem more muffled or tinny than others, but taking the web-related distortions out of the equation, that's all I'm trying to record basically. No Instruments, and any I do get would be a Midi keyboard like an Oxygen or something.

[BTW: I don't consider Apple's Microphone to be enough for what I need... this is a professional project, just not pro music type thing.]

Yontsey
2006-09-28, 11:40
so how many inputs are you going to have at 1 time? are they going to be 1/4in inputs, mic cables, and i see you mentioned midi.

Moogs
2006-09-28, 11:42
Well AFAICT, what I would need to do is run the Mic into the interface, interface to G5 and record via STP. So I guess the answer is 1, maybe 2 max if I ever got a keyboard and was tinkering around that way. No guitars or anything like that.

Wrao
2006-09-28, 13:06
Looks good, I would probably lean towards getting a Presonus Firebox for the interace, mostly because I really like my Presonus Firepod. Additionally, those monitors are the cheapest monitors M-audio makes, and though I have not used them, I hear great things about their more standard 'pro' series, the studiophile bx5a (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/StudiophileBX5a-main.html), where the first one, I have heard they actually are pretty cheap, quality wise, certainly not designed with a real professional project in mind.

Similarly, I've heard great things about the nova mic, but I have never had a chance to use one, but I am sure it will be good, although, admittedly I don't know much about mics.

I mean, ultimately, you have the right idea with what you need, and even if your tools aren't perfectly suited for this job, they are all quality and they all have the capability to produce the sound you're going for, it'll just take some know-how at the controls is all.

Moogs
2006-09-28, 15:57
Cool. Regarding the Monitors: are they really necessary for STP type projects like this, or can I use my Monsoons (which deliver pretty solid sound for a pair of computer speakers)?

Wrao
2006-09-28, 20:45
Cool. Regarding the Monitors: are they really necessary for STP type projects like this, or can I use my Monsoons (which deliver pretty solid sound for a pair of computer speakers)?

Maybe a good pair of monitoring headphones would be enough. Personally, I've heard two distinct camps with regards to monitoring.

Some pro folk I've talked to prefer doing the majority of a mix with headphones only, others think that studio monitors are superior.

So, naturally that suggests that it really is upto the individual, their talents, and what they are comfortable with. A very good pair of monitoring headphones are the Sennheiser HD280 pro (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Sennheiser-HD280-Pro-ClosedBack-Headphones?sku=242411). They can be had for as low as $80, and they are really useful, very great sound. A friend of mine recently got a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 pro (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=272024), he swears they are the best monitoring headpones he has ever used and he has a about a decade of experience with such matters.

Moogs
2006-09-29, 08:51
Wow. I didn't know phones were an option. I would definitely lean in that direction to save space on my desktop and a little money if nothing else. I can always go to monitors later if things really demand it. Stupid question: is the purpose of monitors strictly to check the sound quality post-record, or is it also to playback during the recording so you can hear stuff? I would think the later to be pretty annoying when doing voice-overs. I don't want to hear myself talk while I'm talking into the Mic.

But you always see actors who do voice-overs for animated films, wearing headphones when they're at the mic. Are they listening to themselves or to the other characters they interact with (to get the timing right)? And in the case of musicians, listening to every other instrument except themselves, right?

[PS - I can get the first set you noted for $80... seems like a great option]

Yontsey
2006-09-29, 09:24
This (http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_maudio_fast_track_pro_mobile_usb_audiomidi_int erface?full_sku=103520185) might now be a bad interface for ya. It has 2 mic inputs with phantom power, midi inputs, and line in inputs. Im pretty sure thats all you were using plus its $150 cheaper than the one you were using. I use the same one to lay down lil riffs but I have one model lower because I didnt need the midi I/O.

Yontsey
2006-09-29, 10:27
also, i wanted to add, when i bought my usb interface, i got a deal where i got the interface and 2 condensor mics for like $200 due to a sale. always check out musicians friend magazine. guitar center honors or matches their prices and deals.

sunrain
2006-09-29, 11:17
Can you give us an idea of total budget?

In general, I would say spend most of your money on the microphone and preamp (audio interface). Those two things will drastically determine the quality of your recording. If you skimp here, you'll notice it even more on a voiceover than on music recording.

About monitors vs. headphones: In my view it's a bad idea to use headphones to do anything but monitoring. You'll end up with a bass-heavy mix that will sound unnatural through speakers.

Jerman
2006-09-29, 11:29
I own a Firepod, and can tell you it is an excellent interface, so I am sure the Firebox would be good as well. Used to own the HD 280's, and they were nice, but I shot myself in the foot by mixing my cd using them and not actual monitors. (Got a mix that sounds great in them, but has some problems other places). A good site to get reviews about this gear is:

http://www.harmonycentral.com

Hopefully that helps.

Moogs
2006-09-29, 12:48
sunrain: nothing firm but I want to stay in the neighborhood of $800 for everything (Mic, Interface, Cables, Mic stand, phones, etc).

So anyway sounds like now we have two votes against using phones for monitoring?

Here's another FW interface (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=275194&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) that looks decent.

sunrain
2006-09-29, 18:37
sunrain: nothing firm but I want to stay in the neighborhood of $800 for everything (Mic, Interface, Cables, Mic stand, phones, etc).

So anyway sounds like now we have two votes against using phones for monitoring?

Here's another FW interface (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=275194&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) that looks decent.

Here's what I'd suggest.

Audio Interface - PreSonus Firebox (~$299) or Mackie ONYX-Satellite (~$400)

Both of these interfaces have an excellent built in preamp and are flexible for all kinds of small and portable work. I'd be wary of the M-Audio interfaces. They're notorious for driver issues and don't have the best quality preamps. If it were me, I'd get the PreSonus Firebox. This is not an area to cheap out.

Microphone - Shure Beta 58A (~$160), Rode NT1-A (~$200), or Audio-Technica AT2020 (~$100)

The Shure microphone is actually a dynamic mic but is fantastic for basic voice work recording, especially if you don't have a pristine recording environment and need strong off-axis signal rejection. Definitely consider it if you have more than one computer in the room you'll be recording. You'd be surprised what a condenser mic will pick up. The other two are great condenser mics for the money.

Monitors - Alesis M1 Active MkII (~$250)

So worth the money. You'd have to spend hundreds more to get better quality near-fields.

Mic stand - Heil Sound PL2T Studio Mic Boom (~$100)
Cables - ProCo cables
Pop filter - whatever is cheap

Buy your stuff at either Sweetwater (http://www.sweetwater.com/) or Full Compass (http://www.fullcompass.com/). Don't buy based on the web prices. Ask for a quote. You'll save some money. I can refer you to my sales guys at either place if you like. They'll treat you well.

Moogs
2006-09-29, 21:43
Yah I was considering the NT-1A (in fact it may have been you who suggested it a long time ago). Sounds like solid advice on the pre-amp. Driver issues are about the last thing I want to deal with. Is the Presonus comparable to the other pre-amp I mentioned (Focusrite Saffire) IYO?

I will definitely check those sites out / let you know on the rep thing. Thanks for offering! In general, some of the B&H prices are pretty low, do you think they'd best them even though their site lists a higher price?

Re: the speakers... those are pretty large for a (literal) desktop studio. Anything smaller that you think would beat the best pair of monitoring headphones out there?

hiltond
2006-09-30, 00:16
Full Compass has good prices, just look out for BSTOCK designations.

I really like Presonus preamps for the money. Their Fire series rocks.

The 58 Beta has a nice presence peek. What is your voice like?

Since a mic that will help avoid trouble with the proximity effect will kill your budget you will have to experiment with placement and monitoring will be important. As such cans aren't really a good option.

Sunrain, I haven't yet seen any onyx boards or preamps in really life. Are they really any good?

sunrain
2006-09-30, 03:20
Yah I was considering the NT-1A (in fact it may have been you who suggested it a long time ago). Sounds like solid advice on the pre-amp. Driver issues are about the last thing I want to deal with. Is the Presonus comparable to the other pre-amp I mentioned (Focusrite Saffire) IYO?

I wouldn't go for the Focusrite mostly because I haven't heard anything about it, good or bad. I run with a crowd that would be talking about it, if it were something to talk about. I do know that the Focusrite has some hardware license limitations, (four, I think) which kinda sucks. For this price range, everyone raves about the Firebox. My general impression is that that build quality of the PreSonus is much better than all the other options. You won't be sorry if you go with it. Like Wrao, I have its bigger brother (PreSonus FirePod) and have nothing but great things to say about it.

I will definitely check those sites out / let you know on the rep thing. Thanks for offering! In general, some of the B&H prices are pretty low, do you think they'd best them even though their site lists a higher price?

I'd get quotes from multiple vendors, but I doubt you'll find better deals on most of your items than through Full Compass.

Re: the speakers... those are pretty large for a (literal) desktop studio. Anything smaller that you think would beat the best pair of monitoring headphones out there?

For mixing, I'd take the M-Audio monitors you were looking at over the coolest monitoring headphones out there. Monitoring headphones are made for just that, monitoring, not mixing. If size is a real issue, that's understandable, but if you'll be mixing on a regular basis you might want to consider allowing some space for the larger monitors. Also remember that these will likely function as your system speakers. I'll be back in town on Sunday. I'll post a photo of my workspace if it'll help you visualize a setup for a desk space.

Other monitor options would be:

Behringer MS40
M-Audio DX4
Edirol MA15D

You'll also want to get a couple books on mixing and recording. I'll try to think of some good introductory texts.

sunrain
2006-09-30, 03:24
sunrain, I haven't yet seen any onyx boards or preamps in really life. Are they really any good?

They're representative of other Mackie preamps. Not the best, but great in this price range.

Moogs
2006-09-30, 09:05
Thanks sunrain. [you've sold me on the Presonus... so shall it be written, so shall it be done :) I'll probably go with the M-Audio Studio Pro-4 Desktop Monitors since they will fit reasonable well in the space I have available.]

Book-wise I was considering getting the General overview, Midi-Loop Techniques and Small Studio Recording S.M.A.R.T books by Bill Gibson. All are highly (though sparsely) rated at Amazon, seem current, and let me pick and choose the parts I need to learn most about. Have you heard anything about those?

Moogs
2006-10-03, 19:23
Any final comments / comments on the books I noted above before I dive into the deep end? :)

sunrain
2006-10-03, 23:19
Go forth and purchase, my son.

Moogs
2006-10-04, 08:05
So let it be written, so let it be done...

*mysterious gong is heard in the distance*

Moogs
2006-10-07, 16:37
Update: got everything but the monitors (for now). I'll see how my old Monsoons hold up. They are a pretty decent pair of small speakers / don't seem to be colored in one direction or another. Probably I'll end up getting those M-Audio Pro 4's anyway but thought it silly to throw these out without trying to use them first.

sunrain
2006-10-07, 18:54
Which mic did you end up getting?

Moogs
2006-10-08, 08:00
With some hesitation I got the M-Audio Nova. Feels pretty dern solid as far as how it's built. I thought about the NT-1A but I needed to keep the total package price down. Even deprived myself of an extra set of R2400 inks! :) If I'm not satisfied with the Nova after some trials, over the next few days, I'll return it towards an exchange for the NT-1A.

In the end, it should work well for simple voice-over recordings. If I were a singer I definitely would go for the higher end stuff and not M-Audio, but... we shall see. Hopefully it was a decent decision.

Moogs
2007-01-27, 15:53
Reviving this thread now for a bit. Decided to go with the Sennheiser monitoring phones. I think for my purposes they will do fine, and save me some serious space that I just don't have.

Now onto Midi keyboards. My goal here is just to have something capable to tinker with as I learn to use apps like Reason or Live more, and in general to have some means of creating my own original loops for mixing with STP or one of the above apps.

I'm thinking, due again to space constraints, that I need a smaller version - less than 40 keys, and something that will work out of the box with my Presonus Firebox, without buying special adapters, etc. M-Audio has some decent looking options, like the Oxygen 8 v2 or something similar. Here's a page of options. I don't think I need the mid-aire because my firebox will be 1' away from the keyboard basically. But other suggestions welcome. Maybe one of the 25 key models? Tough for me to decipher which is most compatible with my needs / existing FW interface.

M-Audio Con-fu-zhun (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.list&ID=midikeyboardcontrollers)

Yontsey
2007-01-28, 00:32
I have the basic Keystation 49e that I use with Garageband and it works very well and its USB powered.

Dave
2007-01-28, 15:16
Reviving this thread now for a bit. Decided to go with the Sennheiser monitoring phones. I think for my purposes they will do fine, and save me some serious space that I just don't have.
Mixing on headphones is not the same as mixing on studio monitors. I can't tell you why, but it's not. I'm not saying it'll sound horrible, but it's not the same. I've got a friend who on more than one occasion has said something sounds like a headphone mix, and upon digging, we discover that it is. And he's never been wrong about this, so it's not a trivial difference.

If you're just doing voice though, I can't see how it'll matter, since at that point you're not technically "mixing".

Moogs
2007-01-28, 20:56
I have the basic Keystation 49e that I use with Garageband and it works very well and its USB powered.

I was messing around with one of these today. Not bad at all. Though I would have to opt for the shorter version. No way that thing would fit on my desk. As I look again at the Axiom line, you get way more features for not much more money. Thinking even the 25 key model could work. Anyone ever use one of these?

As for the monitors. I literally have nowhere to put them other than right next to my screen, 18" from my face. It just wouldn't work. So I figure I should get the most neutral sounding pair of headphones I can for around $100+ and go with it. After all it's more my voice and less musical instruments I'll be hearing. I don't like the sound of my voice anyway. :)

Moogs
2007-01-30, 19:37
*bump*

tacvbo83
2007-01-31, 22:49
I am doing great with an Mbox 2 Pro(4 inputs at the same time, 2 of them with phantom power if needed), Mogami & Planet Waves Cables, Shure SM 57's, Beta 58 & Audio Technica AT4040 Mics.

I recommend if going the Pro Tools route and don't want LE, get an Ozonic 37 keyboard and a Firewire 1814 (expand with an Octane pre-amp for recording drums) from M-audio.

If going on a different route such as Logic, Live, DP, Cubase, Sonar, etc etc. I would recomend the MOTU or Focusrite interfaces, especially those that can be expanded (thats if you are recording drums or something like that).

I personally use Logic, Pro Tools LE, Reason, & Live with plug-ins including Battery 3, PSP plugins, Guitar Rig 2, Amplitube, Ampeg SVX, Sampletank and a few others I can't remember of right now. (I am not currently at home so I can't remember all of them)

As far as monitors I am using Senheiser 280 headphones and find them to be alright (what I do is make a cd of the mix i just made and put on stereo or car to see how it sounds, waist of CD-R's but they are cheap. So until I get monitors I will do this). I am looking at either getting the M-Audio BX5 or the Genelec 8020 A because of portabily and great sound for price. (BX5's being $300/pair and Genelec at around 800/pair)

noleli2
2007-02-01, 09:26
Mixing on headphones is not the same as mixing on studio monitors. I can't tell you why, but it's not. I'm not saying it'll sound horrible, but it's not the same. I've got a friend who on more than one occasion has said something sounds like a headphone mix, and upon digging, we discover that it is. And he's never been wrong about this, so it's not a trivial difference.

If you're just doing voice though, I can't see how it'll matter, since at that point you're not technically "mixing".

This is very true. A few years ago I did a bit of mixing on headphones and ended up having to remix later in my dad's studio (Yamaha NS-10Ms).

Even though it is "just" a VO, it seems to me that dynamic effects (you have to use a little, right?) and EQ would sound very different on headphones. I suppose as long as you know the tendencies of your headphones (they probably sound "punchier" than monitors), you'll be fine. Burn it to CD and test in your car! :)

Moogs
2007-02-01, 20:29
Thanks guys. Definitely *not* going to make any kind of Pro Tools investment / spend 10s of thousands of dollars on a system. This is "Create decent soundtracks and voiceovers for training lessons on $2000 or less (computer not included)". Reason 4 is definitely in my sights though. That new Synth mod looks uber-cool (though I'm sure it will take 15 hours of tinkering with it to even get a vague idea of what it can do). :)

Anyone have experience with the Axiom keyboards? Thinking it will more than suffice but willing to wait a bit longer to get more feedback first.

NosferaDrew
2007-02-01, 21:21
An Mbox2 and Pro Tools LE can be had for $495 ($329 for the Mbox2 mini).
Don't discount it as an option.

Pro Tools is very powerful and flexible - there are many reasons why it's the number one audio package in the world.

I've been using Pro Tools since I was a beta tester back in 1990!
I couldn't imagine using anything else.

tacvbo83
2007-02-01, 23:48
NosferaDrew is right. You can have an awesome Pro Tools M-Powered or LE rig for under $2000 and it will be more than worth it.

Mac Mini $600
M-Box 2 Pro $700
M-Audio BX5 $300

The other $400 for mics, cables, keyboard etc. etc.

Thats just one simple possibility out of many that can easily be made. Of course $3000 would make it WAY better!:lol:

Moogs
2007-02-02, 09:26
Yah but isn't ProTools an elaborate Hardware-Software setup that requires a real studio environment? I thought it was pretty much the realm of professional audio engineers, etc. That is, overkill for the likes of me. Maybe I just don't understand what it is. When I think of ProTools I think of one of those big mixing board setups, wires running all over the place, dual 30" screens, glass-encased sound room.... some hippie guy nobody knows smoking in the corner. At least that's the vibe I got from their web site when I checked it out a few years ago.

:D

noleli2
2007-02-02, 10:16
Nope, for ~$500 you can get an Mbox with PT LE. The Mbox has a couple of balanced inputs, so just plug in your mic and you're good to go. That's what I have. Simple as can be. :)

tacvbo83
2007-02-02, 12:32
Moogs, I also use to think that way but not anymore. The Mbox actually even comes with a DVD tutorial which helps you get going very quick. I do recommend watching it 3 times to remember all the tips. (I watched it couple times in pieces because it is a little long, but helpful) Once I feel comfortable enough, I plan to move to something like this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Control24LE . Of course that being until like 5 years from now when I can afford it. For now the Mbox is the best thing I could have ever gotten to start with Pro Tools. I am already gonna record my friends band and they are buying me some Monitors in exchange for the service.

Moogs
2007-02-02, 12:53
Just to clear something up, the MBox is the interface right? I already purchased (from earlier days of the thread) a Presonus Firebox, which is working pretty well so far. What I don't have is a means of monitoring any better than crappy consumer speakers / mini phones, and no midi keyboard.

So, would ProTools and the MBox be a replacement for the Firebox or something to be used in conjunction with it?

tacvbo83
2007-02-02, 13:32
With Pro Tools you can only used Digidesign or M-Audio hardware depending on what version of Pro Tools it is. (either LE or M-Powered) Yes, the Mbox is the interface and comes with the Pro Tools software already. Now that you mention you have the Presonus Firebox, I guess you can use something like Logic, any midi keyboard, and some BX5's (which are good for the price). Get an Mbox would be a complete replacement because it is the interface and hardware toguether.

NosferaDrew
2007-02-02, 22:47
This was my "elaborate" home setup about four years ago. :)
http://homepage.mac.com/drew1/.Pictures/7506.jpg

It hasn't changed much except that the 12" PB is dead and now I use my G5 or my MBP.

Here's a newer shot, testing PT on Windows via BootCamp
http://homepage.mac.com/drew1/.Pictures/PT7_Windows.jpg

Moogs
2007-02-03, 00:08
Yah I was looking at the ProTools-M thing. Looks like a pretty exotic beast. Over my head for sure. Although I have to say their products look top-notch. Maybe if I get into things more, next year I'll give ProTools a go.

Moogs
2007-03-08, 17:52
Well I recently got a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Monitoring headphones. HOLY CRAP are they a serious pair of phones. The crispness and punch from these things is nuts.

I plug it into my Firebox, leave the volume way down, everything else at medium input/output and it's like there's a pair of speakers sitting on my desk. Not loud but I dunno... powerful. :)