Cinema 23"

[jtcedinburgh]

Hi folks.

I am thinking about gettin an Apple CInema 23" to replace two 20" panels (one of which I will use for work and the other of which I will sell to a friend) - I have been doing the dual desktop thing for 18 months now and whilst I like the extra space, I'm not so sure that the 'split' down the middle works for me personally.

Has anyone compared a current ACD23 to an older one (i.e. an early release alu ACD) to see if there are any changes to the panel? I have used an older alu ACD but not seen a more recent one and I wondered if the panel had been revised as it had for the 30" model.

Also, much as I love Apple products and all, I can't ignore the possibility of the Dell 24" panel, which is tempting because of (a) better warranty as standard, and (b) multiple inputs. Its design may not be quite as nice as the Apple LCD but it is better than most. My dual 20" screens are Dell 2001FPs and I am delighted with them in fairness, so qualitatively I reckon I'd probably be happy with the 24" but though my head says Dell, my heart says Apple on this one...

Any thoughts, recommendations, pointers to comparisons?

Ta,

john

[Luca]

Dell. Just do it. I know it's not as stylish but you're already happy with Dell displays, so why not continue going with the brand you know? They're cheaper AND better. There's no real advantage to going with Apple on this one.

[scratt]

I agree with Luca.

If I may throw another make into the mix I would suggest looking at some of the Benq ones.. I got the 1680 x 1050 22" black one recently to go with my new MBP. It's one of the fastest refreshing monitors on the market in the price range, and is aimed at game players / graphics / multimedia people who want fast refresh.. They are not too pricey either.. Not in Thailand anyway.. but apparently in the UK they are very expensive. But then what isn't!

http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/09/benqfp222w.jpg

BenQ's 22-inch widescreen LCD monitor, baptized as the FP222W, is set to hit store sometime this month and brings with it a series of features that make it more than just a pretty face (or bezel, as the case may be). It tops out at a resolution of 1680x1050 pixels and its 5ms response time ensures that you're not sitting on your big Gaming Chair looking at trails and blurs. BenQ's thrown in their proprietary Senseye technology, which is supposed to "automatically and dramatically" improve image quality, kind of like beer goggles.

The FP222W has two types of inputs, D-Sub and DVI. DVI would've been noteworthy two or three years ago, the lack of HDMI is somewhat surprising. Not because it's any better, but because it's newer; we need the latest and greatest, regardless of improvements in quality.

[Luca]

Looks very stylish. It's also interesting that it's a 22" with that resolution. It probably makes viewing small text that much more comfortable and easy. The main disadvantage compared to Dell displays is that it doesn't have any inputs other than VGA and DVI. Having both is nice (better than the Apple displays), but the Dell displays also have composite video and S-video inputs, making it all the more versatile.

BenQ's 24" LCD, though, has an HDMI input as well. That might be something to consider... I'd say next-gen digital video will be more useful in the long run than the analog video inputs of the Dell.

[Yonzie]

I played around with a pair of Dell 2005FPW's (20", 1680x1050) before settling on a 2405 (24", 1920x1200) and I'm damn happy I went with the single Large screen (notwithstanding the bad QC on the 2005s)

BenQ's 24" LCD, though, has an HDMI input as well. That might be something to consider... I'd say next-gen digital video will be more useful in the long run than the analog video inputs of the Dell. HDMI = DVI + SP/DIF and if the monitor doesn't have speakers, well...
Not to mention that there's DVI/HDMI converters readily available ($25).

[Luca]

I played around with a pair of Dell 2005FPW's (20", 1680x1050) before settling on a 2405 (24", 1920x1200) and I'm damn happy I went with the single Large screen (notwithstanding the bad QC on the 2005s)

HDMI = DVI + SP/DIF and if the monitor doesn't have speakers, well...
Not to mention that there's DVI/HDMI converters readily available ($25).

Oh, I see. Well, it doesn't matter if the monitor does have speakers, monitor speakers always suck anyway. So I guess the Dell is your best bet.

[Kraetos]

Samsung SyncMaster 244T.

It's not as cheap as the Dell but it's still less than the ACD. It has a better backlight, a higher contrast ratio, and a much better response time (6ms - fastest you can buy for a 23/24 these days.) Comes in black or silver to match your MBP. I believe its $859 on NewEgg these days.

It also means you don't have to stare at "Dell" at the bottom of your bezel all day. ;)

[Jerman]

Was just looking at the 244T upon Kraetos's recommendation. I am in the market for a 23-24" monitor myself. Unfortunately it appears this monitor sufers from something called "input lag", where the image takes a bit to be displayed. Anyone else know about this?

[digitalprimate]

Dell. Just do it.

I thought that was Nike's slogan!:lol:

[beardedmacuser]

For a small room, widescreen monitors like these seem like an excellent alternative to a "high-def" TV especially if like me you already have a media centre box and a receiver. However, I'm wondering;


How good are LCD monitors for watching TV, DVDs or playing games? (because every LCD TV I see in shops looks absolutely crap; slow, fuzzy and shockingly expensive)

[beardedmacuser]

It also means you don't have to stare at "Dell" at the bottom of your bezel all day. ;)

Would it make the Dell warranty invalid if you were to paint or spray-over the Dell logo on the display?

[Is it 1981?]

Would it make the Dell warranty invalid if you were to paint or spray-over the Dell logo on the display?

There's a photo in an old issue of MacUser someone sent in after their daughter went a little triggerhappy with the spraypaint and glitter and Christmas decorations all over his iMac G4. I'll see if I can find it - gave me an OMG Moment when I saw it.

[Robo]

There's a photo in an old issue of MacUser someone sent in after their daughter went a little triggerhappy with the spraypaint and glitter and Christmas decorations all over his iMac G4. I'll see if I can find it - gave me an OMG Moment when I saw it.OMG! The iMac G4 is the best-looking computer ever. And it was covered in glitter, no less. GLITTER! That's just wrong.

[Kraetos]

Was just looking at the 244T upon Kraetos's recommendation. I am in the market for a 23-24" monitor myself. Unfortunately it appears this monitor sufers from something called "input lag", where the image takes a bit to be displayed. Anyone else know about this?

I don't experience input lag, and I game quite a bit.

[Is it 1981?]

OMG! The iMac G4 is the best-looking computer ever. And it was covered in glitter, no less. GLITTER! That's just wrong.

It certainly is. I'd give a kidney for Ives and Jobs to bring back the G4 design for the next iteration.

[jtcedinburgh]

I'm still knocking this one about - my head says Dell (better warranty, multi inputs, cheaper, HDMI) but my heart says Apple (nicer case, not a Dell logo to be seen).

In balance I think I'm swaying toward the Dell as I already have the dual 2001FPs which are great, and I may keep one and remain dual monitor - using the larger screen as the main one and the 2001FP for web/mail/etc. The Dell would match the existing Dell better...

Not quite convinced yet, though...

[Yonzie]

Unfortunately it appears [the 244T] sufers from something called "input lag", where the image takes a bit to be displayed. Anyone else know about this? It's a "feature" of overdrive technology.
Transitions to full-on/off are really quick for LCDs, but mediums take significantly longer to "home in" on.
Therefore, Overdrive is employed, where the pixel is told to go to full on/off for a short amount of time in order to reach the correct color quicker. This, however, introduces a 1 frame latency that non-overdrive panels don't have.
Nearly all new LCDs employ overdrive.

The Dell 2405 has the additional latency and probably the 2407 as well.
The Samsung 243 didn't have it as well as the 23" ACD, but they take longer to reach the correct color (ghosting).

[Fahrenheit]

See if you can get a Dell 24 and a faulty ACD and take the Dell and stick it in the ACD shell. :D

[jtcedinburgh]

Update on this: I stumbled across a very good deal on a 30" Dell 3007WFP panel for not hugely more than a 23" ACD, so it settled the 23 ACD versus 24 Dell argument. Only thing is that I am buying the Dell blind, having never actually seen their 30" (though I am a big fan of the earlier 20" 2001FP, of which I have two)

I'll post back a report if anyone's interested.

john

[Jerman]

Sweet! I wish I could afford the 30", but one of my issues was I have nothing to drive it. So I purchased the 24" Benq. Loving it! But yeah, report back when you get it.

[Yonzie]

Only thing is that I am buying the Dell blind, having never actually seen their 30" (though I am a big fan of the earlier 20" 2001FP, of which I have two) Everything you ever wanted to know here:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1017391

[jtcedinburgh]

Well, it's here - I bought it as Dell Outlet stock from a reseller, and whilst I am not entirely sure it is genuine Outlet (as the packaging was missing the original driver disk and instructions) it appears to be in perfect operational condition. I will contact the reseller and complain about the misrepresentation, though in fairness I got it for 2/3 of the new price, so I will have to bear that in mind.

On to the screen - I'll post more later, but in brief it's very very nice indeed. It takes up less space than the dual 20" 2001FPs, and has a brighter, more pleasant image. The 2560x1600 resolution isn't quite as vast as you'd expect but it's big enough for me to now sell both 20" screens (I had planned on selling only one).

Very nice, I am pleased (subject to proper testing and checking for dead-pixels - I can't see any so far).