View Full Version : Can I delete OSX from Macbook
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 20:33
Hello,
I'm looking at getting a new laptop, and i like the size and pricepoint of the Macbook.
I know that it's possible to run Vista through Bootcamp or Parallels, but since I wouldn't be using OSX, is it possible to completely delete it off the HD, and only run Windows on it? Thanks!
PKIDelirium
2007-02-28, 20:35
:err:
:lol: Check out the Similar Topics.
Windowsrookie
2007-02-28, 20:35
No, use OS X, it's better. And you'll be slapped if you ask that again in an Apple user forum.
Don't post duplicate threads.
Why not just go buy a dell, dude
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 20:44
An Apple sale is an apple sale, right? Why not Dell? Because I like the size and price of the Macbook, but prefer Vista over OS X...
But do I have to keep it on the HD, or can I delete the OSX partition?
I don't think you can delete the OS X Partition, but you can make it so miniscule it isn't even relevant. The MacBook can be configured to boot into Vista by default, and you'd never know OS X was on there.
I highly recommend you give OS X a good, long try though.
Schnauzer
2007-02-28, 20:48
I believe when you go to the format window when installing windows you can go to the top of list and reformat the whole drive windows
torifile
2007-02-28, 21:19
Remember that without having OS X, any updates to the Windows drivers will by a crapshoot for you. Apple has updated the Windows drivers at least twice (maybe 3 times), each time making the Macbook more functional in Windows.
Your the first (I've noticed ) buying a Mac just to run Windows. I guess that it had to happen. :no:
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 21:35
I actually got the idea from a friend, that got a Macbook, but only uses it to run windows.
I figure it's a waste of space if you can't delete the Mac partition, so there ya go. I'm sure there are quite a few like him out there. You're not surpriced though, are you? I mean if it's possible to boot into windows from a Mactel...
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 21:38
Really? But I mean it's basically a regular Intel laptop, that uses the same off the shelf parts that other laptop manufacturers use, right? (Except for the BIOS or no BIOS of course) So wouldn't it be possible to update the drivers through Windows?
Having a tiny 10 gig or so OSX partition wouldn't kill me, I suppose...
But thanks for the replies!
Why not just go buy a dell, dude
An Apple sale is an apple sale, right? Why not Dell? Because I like the size and price of the Macbook, but prefer Vista over OS X...
But do I have to keep it on the HD, or can I delete the OSX partition?
Sorry, I wasnt trying to be an ass. I was mocking the Dell "dude" guy. Came off wrong, I apologize.
Not surprised, come to think about it, but confused. Why run Windows at all if you don't have to?
Why not run OS X?
OS x : Windows as MacBook : 17" Inspiron clunker laptop everyone in college has
Believe it or not, some people actually prefer to use Windows.
I know, I know. It baffles me too.
Having a tiny 10 gig or so OSX partition wouldn't kill me, I suppose...That's really the best way to go. OS X gives you access to Apple's tools for upgrading/managing BootCamp. You can also boot into OS X to troubleshoot the Windows partition if necessary.
Plus, there is the "cool" factor of having two OSes, and last but not least, the ability to get curious and play with OS X at your leisure.
threads merged and redundant posts deleted
Plus, keeping OS X will provide great ease in reversing your wretched mistake once you've grown wise to your past wrong-doings.
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 22:01
Plus, keeping OS X will provide great ease in reversing your wretched mistake once you've grown wise to your past wrong-doings.
LOL! Thanks! That way I won't have to burn in hell for an eternity, as other Windows-users, eh? :lol:
I actually HAD to use OS-X in my school, and besides the fact that it seemed to crash a lot on me, i Didn't MIND it that much. I just prefer windows, especially Windows Vista.
(My Ipod dying on me, after a little over a year, hasn't really improved my trust in all things Apple, either)
Did your iPod die because of hardware or software? If hardware, which is highly likely, then your logic is severely flawed. Not trusting Apple because your iPod failed as the result of a hardware issue shouldn't lead you to buy a Macbook (Apple hardware) and install Windows on it.
I understand that you might prefer Windows over OS X. That's fine. But, you're the first person I have talked to who "trusts" Windows Vista more than OS X.
Good luck.
Ryan
Give us some details if you would -
- what are you going to use Windows Vista to DO, and what applications will you use to do it?
- what did you use OS X to do in school?
- what did you use OS X to do in school?And when, I think, is important. OS X was no saint of reliability back in the 10.0 - 10.1 days.
I've also found OS X to be unreliable on older hardware. I get more kernel panics in 3 days on my iMac G3 than my G4 PowerBook has had in a lifetime.
There are a lot of factors, Graphguy, that could influence your experience with unreliability. I've found OS X to be extremely reliable with very little work, given the hardware is in good shape. (Ram is a big one).
torifile
2007-02-28, 22:23
Really? But I mean it's basically a regular Intel laptop, that uses the same off the shelf parts that other laptop manufacturers use, right? (Except for the BIOS or no BIOS of course) So wouldn't it be possible to update the drivers through Windows?
Having a tiny 10 gig or so OSX partition wouldn't kill me, I suppose...
But thanks for the replies!
When have you known anyone but the machine's manufacturer to come out with updates for drivers, even on generic windows boxes? Apple is the manu of the MacBook and they have chosen (and will likely continue to choose) to distribute updates via the bootcamp assistant.
Graphguy
2007-02-28, 22:32
Well, I went to journalism school, so while the computers were a mix of older G3 and newer G4s, the OS was always updated to the latest edition: 10.3.
(This is actually one of the things that I really like about OS X, you can run a new version of it even on old hardware)
We used it to surf, DTP and wordprocessing, and it used to crash so hard on me, that I had to pull out the powerplug. This happened maybe once or twice a month, my XP laptop didn't crash nearly that often. Percieved stability isn't the only reason why I prefer Windows though, there's lots of other reasons (Better HW support, more software available, the User Interface)
I imagine I'll use my next laptop for a mix of business and pleasure, so I'll run a couple of games on it, Office 07 for Wordprocessing, Photoshop and Picassa for pictures/imagemanipulation, Firefox/IE7 for surfing, and probably some light DTP with Adobe Indesign.
Oh, and Windows Media Player/VLC for video and audiofiles, and NERO for recoding avimovies and DVD burning.
When have you known anyone but the machine's manufacturer to come out with updates for drivers, even on generic windows boxes?
Well, on my desktop system, and soon to be former laptop, new updates and drivers are often available from the manufacturer of the (for example) videocard or networkcard directly (Such as Ati, Intel, or Railink). So I would imagine that I would get new videodrivers from for example Intel directly, no?
PKIDelirium
2007-02-28, 22:41
Percieved stability isn't the only reason why I prefer Windows though, there's lots of other reasons (Better HW support, more software available, the User Interface)
:confused:
dmegatool
2007-02-28, 23:05
Better HW support, more software available, the User Interface
I don't want to push again as everyone as already told you the "good" decision to make :) I'll just tell you how it happened to me
I used Mac at school too. G4. Can't tell if it was 10,3 or 10,4 cause at that time, I didn't give a fuck. I just hated Mac. I was so ... unWindows. I then worked at a place where I was "forced" to use Mac. I saw my teammates do some cool stuff and they worked really fast. I understood that it was just a matter of time to be confortable and be as fast as in Windows.
For your "more software available" thing. Let me tell you that one of the first thing I did was to install Boot Camp when I got my Mac Pro. It was my "security". I didn't know how to something ? Boot in XP et voilà ! I then discovred that OSX as a lot of software avaible. Maybe less then Windows but how far more quality ! You can't even compare. I now boot in XP only to play games... no more than that.
So my tip is : Install Boot Camp if you want, as a security, but let you a little bit of time to find the right software. From what you listed, OSX as a equivalent for everything (equivalent=way better :)) You could always come here and ask for some help. We'll be glad to tell you what programs are good or anything.
Honestly--while I admire you wanting to buy a macbook, you can get a comparable Acer or Dell laptop that has everything but the apple look--and even then, there are laptop manufacturers who make laptops that look very similar to the Macbook.
Basically, what I'm trying to get to is why do you even need an apple laptop if you have no intention of using it for what it was made for (running OS X?)
I admit I prefer Windows for some tasks, but if I wanted to run Windows on my laptop I wouldn't spend extra money paying the "Mac Tax" so I can run a version of Windows with drivers that rarely get updated. There's also the fact that the trackpad is one-button, meaning you'll need a mouse all the time; Boot Camp doesn't even work properly with Vista (there are many driver issues, mostly with input;) and even if you got everything working properly the power management isn't very good with Windows and Mac hardware--hope you enjoy cutting your battery life significantly.
You honestly would be better off buying a Core 2 Duo Acer or Dell; they won't look like Macbooks but they'll do you a lot better and would most likely be cheaper.
Otherwise, suck it up and run OS X--but for the love of god, do not buy a Mac just so you can run Windows on it. This isn't from the perspective of a Mac Zealot (I have a PC as my main machine, and I use my Mac for school,) it's from the perspective of someone who really doesn't want you to make a horrible decision. Macs can run Windows, yes--but they run OS X a lot better.
rollercoaster375
2007-03-01, 23:03
Believe it or not, some people actually prefer to use Windows.
I know, I know. It baffles me too.
I know people who prefer Windows... But they wouldn't be caught dead using Vista.
drewprops
2007-03-01, 23:48
Graphguy, I just wrote an article ABOUT YOU (http://www.drewprops.com/?p=263)!!! You're not the only person I've seen asking about this and it's very interesting to observe.... have to say that I agree with the others suggesting you find a machine designed to optimize your Windows-using experience.
I know people who prefer Windows... But they wouldn't be caught dead using Vista.
Same. All the Windows enthusiasts I know (oxy-moron) won't touch Vista with a ten-foot pole until SP1.
That said, when I saw the title of this thread, I figured he wanted to install some Linux distro on it... go figure...
The security issues alone are enough to prevent me from ever using Windows as a primary OS. I need my computer to just work. With all the malware out there, that's never a guarantee with Windows. (Granted its never a guarantee for my Mac either, but its damn close.)
(Better HW support, more software available, the User Interface)
:confused:
1. How is using a computer where the OS and the hardware are supplied by the same vendor offer less support than a computer where the hardware and OS come from different vendors? Thats one of the things I hate most about the PC world. Dell tells you to call Microsoft, and Microsoft tells you to call Dell.
2. I'd take quality software over more software any day of the week.
3. You prefer a user interface that is at best, on par (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000803.html), and at worst, vastly slower than XP? Not to mention the lack of consistent UI guidelines, resulting in a frankenstein-esque experience across different apps?
I'm sorry, but after weighing all the different factors carefully and for many years, I've come to the conclusion that aside from working in an environment where you are forced to use Windows by the powers-that-be (your bosses), there's no good reason to prefer or use Windows.
EDIT: Addendum. Once Apple releases a version of iTunes for Linux, THEN there will be no good reason to use Windows.
Guys, stop flaming him. An OS is a personal choice, and none is inherently better than another. OS X is certainly not better in all ways than Windows XP or Vista.
I, too, would recommend you leave a small, minimal installation of OS X on your hard drive, if only to keep Boot Camp up-to-date and allow for maintenance/diagnosis.
GladToBeHere
2007-03-03, 14:57
I don't think the strong opinions are flaming. OS X is Mac. We're the one's so often accused of only wanting our computers to look good, when it's untrue. He wants a pretty computer, not a Mac.
I don't think the strong opinions are flaming.
Perhaps not, but they aren't very welcoming to a new member. ;)
OS X is Mac. We're the one's so often accused of only wanting our computers to look good, when it's untrue. He wants a pretty computer, not a Mac.
What's so terribly wrong with buying a Mac and primarily using a different OS on it? Yes, Macs are primarily a symbiotic platform between software and hardware, but you can use a different OS on the machine, and if you really want to, then why the heck not? Apple makes some of the best hardware out there no matter which system you end up using on it, so Intel Macs actually make for some very nice choices as Windows machines.
I had bought the mac mini when it first came out due to curiosity about OS X. It wasn't a week before I returned it to the store out of frustration. I just couldn't get it to do things I was accustomed to on my Win box.
Fast forward a couple of years and I again flirted with the idea of a MBP. I decided to take the plunge knowing I could run WinXP as my fallback. I was booting into Win for nearly 3-4 months on a regular basis and never gave OS X a chance. Then one day when I had some time, I decided to give it a go. Well the rest is history. I can do literally everything I could do in Windows, faster and better.
Even though Apple would like you to think otherwise, switching does entail a learning curve. Not so much that things are difficult to understand, but in that you have to think different. :)
Now, almost 9 months after becoming a "full time" mac user, it actually pains me to have to use my windows pc. Once I get enough cash to justify it, the entire arsenal will be converted.
The bottom line here is...give OS X a chance and I can almost guarantee you will convinced.
drewprops
2007-03-04, 01:36
What's so terribly wrong with buying a Mac and primarily using a different OS on it?
Damned straight.
That's why I had the stupid fucking stock engine ripped out of my Ferrari and put in a 6 cylinder diesel. It's MY car and I can drive a smoky toaster if I want to.
Even if it's beyond stupid.
/free world
Damned straight.
That's why I had the stupid fucking stock engine ripped out of my Ferrari and put in a 6 cylinder diesel. It's MY car and I can drive a smoky toaster if I want to.
Even if it's beyond stupid.
/free world
Ok, now this really made me laugh out loud.
My take. Spend your money how you want. I switched after getting a Mini and a KVM switch to go back an forth. Now I use the Mini for most everything and XP for my classes that require XP and my financial management software. Parallels handles that perfectly.
Dorian Gray
2007-03-04, 10:47
A basic OS X 10.4 installation is way less than 10 GB. I recently did an Erase and Install on my "new" PowerBook (yay!) and it came to 3.75 GB (without printer drivers and with only two OS languages, but with X11 and everything else, iTunes, etc.). After running Software Update (to 10.4.8) it was still well under 4 GB, and I could remove a bunch of apps and other bits and pieces if I really wanted to trim the installation down (though 4 GB is probably not a problem with today's hard disks).
As for why one would want to sully Jonathan Ive's peerless industrial design with Vista's cheap 'n' cheerful gaudiness ("Wow!" :lol:), I think that's a question best left to a professional psychologist. ;)
Graphguy
2007-03-04, 17:16
Well, thanks for the replies and help... I'm not getting the Ibook!
That it had problems running Vista, and that I'd had to waste 5-10GB of HD-space on OS X, were both factors, but what really changed my mind, was that i saw a new 12.1 inch Tablet/laptop from HP.
It gomes with a gig of RAM, 120 GB harddisk, and most importantly a Nvidia Geforce 6150 graphics, so I wouldn't have to deal with the shitty GMA 950 that the Ibook comes with.
It was an interesting experience to come to this site though. I never realized that there were people who where that passionate about hating Microsoft, Windows and Vista.
Coming from the PC-world, nobody really cares that much about Apple, or sees them as the "evil side", even though Apple has its own monopolistic tendencies, and would probably act every bit as monopolistic as Microsoft does, if they had the means.
In my experience, PC-owners (Or satanworshippers, Evil MSFT-fanbuys, whatever) see a computer as a tool that gets a job done, some are a little better than others, and a Mac is just like any other computer, except that it runs a different operating system (The HW is pretty much the same these days)
Maybe it's because us Windows-users aren't a tiny minority, and don't feel threatened the same way an Apple-user might do, that we don't give a toss about "the other side". I assume that's how some of you feel, given your reactions.
I must admit I felt like I fell down on a different planet or something, a couple of times. Just wondering out of curiositys sake, how many of you have used a Windows-machine the last 3-5 years? Because it seems like there's some misconceptions/myths about the stability and security of a windows-machine, that I can't recognize from my own experience.
(Personally I had problems with spyware maybe once in the last five years. Some pornsurfing, (yeah, yeah, everybody does it) also got me a virus once in that same period)
So anyways, it's a HP tablet/notebook for me right now, allthough I have been thinking about getting a used Imac (One of those that looks like a desklamp) for a while now, just because of the design...
So who knows, I might become a Macowner afterall. If I can get that pesky OS-X off it of course ;)
I know people who prefer Windows... But they wouldn't be caught dead using Vista.
Really?!? Do you know why, or what their reasoning is? I've used Vista every day since October, and I love it! It's fast, amazingly compatible with HW, lot's of UI-improvements, plus it has a lot of that shiny pretty stuff, that I like about OS X :)
I really don't understand why you created this thread only to end up picking a completely different, uncomparable piece of hardware.
I can find you one with 2 GBs of RAM and 160 GBs of hard drive space and both cheaper than your HP or Apple's MacBook. That doesn't mean the MacBook is a bad offer. It's simply a matter of priorities, and clearly, you failed to specify yours properly to begin with.
Graphguy
2007-03-04, 17:57
Classic troll. I should have figured much earlier.
Classic web-board paranoia.
So the only way I WOULDN'T be a troll, is if I bought the Ibook, that most of you have told me I shouldn't get?
Or am I a troll because I was surprised at the level of antagonism against Microsoft, Windows and PCs among some, but not everybody in here?
Doesn't make much sense...
Whether you think I'm a troll or not, thanks for the advice.
Classic web-board paranoia.
So the only way I WOULDN'T be a troll, is if I bought the Ibook, that most of you have told me I shouldn't get?
Or am I a troll because I was surprised at the level of antagonism against Microsoft, Windows and PCs among some, but not everybody in here?
Doesn't make much sense...
Whether you think I'm a troll or not, thanks for the advice.
No, I felt you'd be a troll because you seemed to create the thread under a completely false premise, i.e. you had never intended to buy the Apple product to begin with, only to see reactions to your unusual idea.
GladToBeHere
2007-03-04, 20:27
Hm. First instincts are right.
Whodathunkit?
Well, thanks for the replies and help... I'm not getting the Ibook!
That it had problems running Vista, and that I'd had to waste 5-10GB of HD-space on OS X, were both factors, but what really changed my mind, was that i saw a new 12.1 inch Tablet/laptop from HP.
It gomes with a gig of RAM, 120 GB harddisk, and most importantly a Nvidia Geforce 6150 graphics, so I wouldn't have to deal with the shitty GMA 950 that the Ibook comes with.
Are you serious? In case anyone is wondering, the GeForce 6150 is an integrated GPU that's only slightly more powerful than the GMA 950 in the MacBook. You're certainly not going to be doing any gaming on it.
You're the second guy in recent memory who has come to these boards asking about Apple products with no intention of actually buying an Apple product, only going to buy a PC (in his case, a Dell) instead. It's really getting a little tiresome - I don't ask a bunch of BMW lovers what they love about BMWs before I go and buy an Audi, then rub it in their face.
It was an interesting experience to come to this site though. I never realized that there were people who where that passionate about hating Microsoft, Windows and Vista.
Microsoft is a company that has continually engaged predatory business practices to spread their inferior products. As someone who works in a tech-support department, yes, this bothers me.
Coming from the PC-world, nobody really cares that much about Apple, or sees them as the "evil side", even though Apple has its own monopolistic tendencies, and would probably act every bit as monopolistic as Microsoft does, if they had the means.
Yes. Many people don't care about their computers. The vast majority of computers are nothing more than glorified typewriters and memo-readers. Should this person be spending, at minimum, $600 for a new Mac? No, of course not. In an ideal world they would be spending $250 on a Linux box, which'll do the same things with a fraction of the security concerns. But we don't live in an ideal world, nor is Desktop Linux quite there yet.
But if you *care* about your computer, then you are doing yourself a disservice by not considering a Mac. They are superior machines for the vast majority of tasks, and are just more pleasant to use. I use PC's every day. (Tech support, remember?) Furthermore, I have Parallels installed for testing purposes. And the eventual conclusion is inescapable: Macs, and in a wider sense, UNIX, is better. The vast, vast majority of computer-savvy people I know use OS X or Linux. Even suggesting they do most of their work on Windows would get you a hearty laugh, followed by "you're serious?"
In my experience, PC-owners (Or satanworshippers, Evil MSFT-fanbuys, whatever) see a computer as a tool that gets a job done, some are a little better than others, and a Mac is just like any other computer, except that it runs a different operating system (The HW is pretty much the same these days)
Yup. But my computer is my livelyhood. Seriously, I use it to make a living. (Or, will, once I graduate.) And the "tool" that everyone else uses isn't good enough.
Maybe it's because us Windows-users aren't a tiny minority, and don't feel threatened the same way an Apple-user might do, that we don't give a toss about "the other side". I assume that's how some of you feel, given your reactions.
I wouldn't give a toss about the other side if I didn't have to deal with it every day. Microsoft's illegal anti-competitive practices has cost me and many other web designers billions in opportunity costs (http://www.subtraction.com/archives/2006/0511_how_much_is_.php). Instead of writing better code, I instead have to budget my time to hack around IE's shortcomings. This is infuriating, and usually adds about 10-15% extra, unnecessary time spent on every project I do.
In the perfect world that exists in my dreams, everyone uses Linux or Mac OS X and IE isn't even an option.
I must admit I felt like I fell down on a different planet or something, a couple of times. Just wondering out of curiositys sake, how many of you have used a Windows-machine the last 3-5 years? Because it seems like there's some misconceptions/myths about the stability and security of a windows-machine, that I can't recognize from my own experience.
Like I said, I use Windows boxes every day. Dozens of different ones that I manage, administer, and troubleshoot. And my college has has such a problem with malware on their computers that we've installed anti-virus software on every Mac as well - not because we are worried about the Macs getting viruses, but because we are worred about the PCs getting malware from the Macs which are on the same network.
(Personally I had problems with spyware maybe once in the last five years. Some pornsurfing, (yeah, yeah, everybody does it) also got me a virus once in that same period)
And I've never had a problem with it on my Mac.
So anyways, it's a HP tablet/notebook for me right now, allthough I have been thinking about getting a used Imac (One of those that looks like a desklamp) for a while now, just because of the design...
So who knows, I might become a Macowner afterall. If I can get that pesky OS-X off it of course ;)
Ah yes... the lampshades. They were wonderful machines. There are still a couple around here on their last legs. I have a feeling we keep them around because they look so nice. (They are located in one of the main entrances to the main building on campus.)
Really?!? Do you know why, or what their reasoning is? I've used Vista every day since October, and I love it! It's fast, amazingly compatible with HW, lot's of UI-improvements, plus it has a lot of that shiny pretty stuff, that I like about OS X :)
- The new anti-malware software is induces a horrific performance hit, and STILL doesn't protect against viruses proper.
- Many drivers still missing (amazingly compatible with HW? I'm sorry if this is blunt, but thats a bold-faced lie. many printers, scanners, PDAs... iPods.... still don't have working drivers)
- New eye-candy can slow system to a crawl
- New users are given this pseudo-admin account that does little to actually prevent against malware. One more symptom of the fact that the way Windows handles users is a shoddy imitation of UNIX-like systems.
- The versioning system is horrific (four versions. five, counting enterprise. why? to add to Microsoft's bottom line, that's why. Because they really need to fleece their users some more.)
- Overpriced
- IE7 is too little, too late, and has a terrible UI to boot (why remove/move the menus? they work. we are used to them.)
EDIT, now that Pirillo's blog is back up:
- Good luck using that nVidia chipset with Vista. Apparently nVidia Vista drivers are spotty, at best.
- Networking problems
- Stability problems
Sorry dude, but your reasoning is pretty flawed. I've definitely seen worse, though.
julesstoop
2007-03-04, 21:20
Graphguy,
Try not to be a baby.
If you came here and expected people not to try to convince you of the fact that an [the most] important part of enjoying a PC made by Apple Inc. is the fact that it is a Macintosh (which means it primarily runs Mac OS X) you don't seem to be particularly smart.
For some reason though I don't believe this, which means you must have known beforehand that you might provoke us (which indeed might be considered trolling.)
Graphguy
2007-03-06, 18:10
Are you serious? In case anyone is wondering, the GeForce 6150 is an integrated GPU that's only slightly more powerful than the GMA 950 in the MacBook. You're certainly not going to be doing any gaming on it.
Well, the 6150 is quite a bit more powerfull isnt it? Something like 30% according to some benchmarks I've seen. Oh crap! Please don't tell me they're equakky as fast... :\
It's really getting a little tiresome - I don't ask a bunch of BMW lovers what they love about BMWs before I go and buy an Audi, then rub it in their face.
But you might ask them about their advice if you're thinking about getting either a BMW or an Audi, right?
Microsoft is a company that has continually engaged predatory business practices to spread their inferior products. As someone who works in a tech-support department, yes, this bothers me.
But as a Mac-fan, you should be helpful that they helped save the company back in the nineties, eh? ;)
Microsoft isn't perfect, I'm no great fan either, but hate them? Nahh...
Yes. Many people don't care about their computers. The vast majority of computers are nothing more than glorified typewriters and memo-readers. Should this person be spending, at minimum, $600 for a new Mac? No, of course not. In an ideal world they would be spending $250 on a Linux box, which'll do the same things with a fraction of the security concerns. But we don't live in an ideal world, nor is Desktop Linux quite there yet.
I use my computer for quite a few things, and as a journalist I make a living off it, so I certainly care about my computer. And as for security concerns, well, I just don't open email-attachments and that pretty much takes care of it...
The lampshade old G4-Imacs, I'd like to get one of those though, to keep around the house as a second computer. I'd even take one of those to the cube anytime...
For awhile I really like Macs, and bought the line about the HW being superior, etc. Ever since Apple switched to Intel processors, it's just another computer as far as I'm concerned, the HW is pretty much the same. But since I like the size and price of the ibook, I thought about getting it, which led me here...
I had to use Macs for a while, and can't really see the great productivity gains, probably the opposite, since I'm used to and like windows,and which is why I wanted to get rid of OSX.
I instead have to budget my time to hack around IE's shortcomings. This is infuriating, and usually adds about 10-15% extra, unnecessary time spent on every project I do.
Now that, I can understand. But at least IE is pretty much a standard now, right? That has to be easier than designing for 5-10 different browsers (Each of which having their own interpretation of "standards")
- The new anti-malware software is induces a horrific performance hit, and STILL doesn't protect against viruses proper.
- Many drivers still missing (amazingly compatible with HW? I'm sorry if this is blunt, but thats a bold-faced lie. many printers, scanners, PDAs... iPods.... still don't have working drivers)
Well, I got my desktop last autumn with Vista in mind, so with 2gb RAM I don't get any performance hit. As for the drivers I'm sure there might be some problems for some. But all the HW I installed, even some of the older bits, has worked perfectly so far with Vista finding drivers right away. (Couldn't really tell you how the Ipod works on it, since it died on me like a week after I got my new computer hrumph!)
- The versioning system is horrific (four versions. five, counting enterprise. why? to add to Microsoft's bottom line, that's why. Because they really need to fleece their users some more.)
- Overpriced
I agree with you in that... It'll bite Microsoft in the end though, the Enterprise and Business versions are easy to hack. So far, from what I've seen, the only real options available are the business and the Home premium versions, they're the only ones I seen in stores so far.
- Good luck using that nVidia chipset with Vista. Apparently nVidia Vista drivers are spotty, at best.
- Networking problems
- Stability problems
Hmmm... Even if it comes preloaded with Vista?
Thanks!
Try not to be a baby.
If you came here and expected people not to try to convince you of the fact that an [the most] important part of enjoying a PC made by Apple Inc.
No, I'm not complaining, and I knew some Apple people can be fanatical/passionate, not just that much. :)
Now people that don't know that much about Apple, they're the ones that are stunned that someone can care so much about a computer...
julesstoop
2007-03-06, 18:37
People (mac users) primarily care about the fact that their Macs almost always "just work". This is something which certainly can't be said for most PC's and it is what the experience of using a Mac is all about.
Putting Vista on a Macbook as it's sole or primary OS, breaks with this experience. I'm not at all bemused by the fact that people here (in trying to be helpful) strongly discourage anybody buying a Mac to go down this path.
Be glad that this community tries to give you some solid advice. From many other threads on this forum, you should be able to see we're are a pretty heterogenous bunch otherewise.
Well, the 6150 is quite a bit more powerfull isnt it? Something like 30% according to some benchmarks I've seen. Oh crap! Please don't tell me they're equakky as fast... :\
30% faster doesn't mean much when both are sucking from the main memory. Integrated graphics are integrated graphics, and the differences between integrated graphics chipsets within the same timespan are pretty moot.
Yes, the 6150 is more powerful than the 950. But powerful enough to make a diffence? You're going to be relegated to 2 year old games either way.
But you might ask them about their advice if you're thinking about getting either a BMW or an Audi, right?
If that we're truly the case, yes.
But as a Mac-fan, you should be helpful that they helped save the company back in the nineties, eh? ;)
Microsoft isn't perfect, I'm no great fan either, but hate them? Nahh...
Saved them? By purchasing a large chunk of Apple stock? Well that was just a good investment, and you're not going to convince me for a second that that purchase saved Apple. Steve Jobs, the iMac, the iPod, and OS X saved Apple. In other words, good 'ol fashioned innovation.
Or maybe you're referring Office staying on the Mac platform? Contrary to popular belief, the MacBU was never in any real danger of getting the axe. Remember, Office was a Mac program BEFORE it was a Windows program.
Now, when did I say I hate them? Hate is a strong word. I do, however, strongly dissaprove of Microsoft's products and business strategies. But would I, say, wish harm on Bill Gates? No, of course not.
I use my computer for quite a few things, and as a journalist I make a living off it, so I certainly care about my computer. And as for security concerns, well, I just don't open email-attachments and that pretty much takes care of it...
Correct. A Windows user with enough expertise can usually keep his/her system safe. I just don't like putting in the legwork/installing unnecessary programs/mucking around in MSConfig and the registry to keep my computer healthy. These things shouldn't be necessary.
The lampshade old G4-Imacs, I'd like to get one of those though, to keep around the house as a second computer. I'd even take one of those to the cube anytime...
For awhile I really like Macs, and bought the line about the HW being superior, etc. Ever since Apple switched to Intel processors, it's just another computer as far as I'm concerned, the HW is pretty much the same. But since I like the size and price of the ibook, I thought about getting it, which led me here...
Mac OS has always been the best reason to buy a Mac, the hardware coming in second. And the switch from PPC to Intel hasn't degraded the hardware Apple uses in any way - Apple, does, after all, use Intel's best chips, while IBM has pretty much stagnated when it comes to anything but server chips. And lets not forget about the form factor, the design, and little niceties like built in motion sensors, cameras, and microphones. Apple hardware is still superior to most PC hardware. Other companies make nice hardware - Lenovo and Alienware come to mind - but they don't run OS X.
I had to use Macs for a while, and can't really see the great productivity gains, probably the opposite, since I'm used to and like windows,and which is why I wanted to get rid of OSX.
That certainly happens to some people. I will never understand why, but it does.
Now that, I can understand. But at least IE is pretty much a standard now, right? That has to be easier than designing for 5-10 different browsers (Each of which having their own interpretation of "standards")
Way wrong. Safari, Firefox, and Opera all adhere to standards laid out by the W3C (read: not laid out by Apple, Mozilla Corp, or Opera Software) very well. W3C standards are well documented, clear, and easy to understand.
IE does not adhere to said standards in many cases. IE's rendering engine is closed source and the oddities are relativly poorly documented. The universe would be a better place if IE simply dissapeared tomorrow, and all IE-code was magically rewritten to adhere to standards.
You can't fudge standards. Standards are standards. You don't "interpret" standards, you adhere to them. Safari, Firefox and Opera do. IE does not.
Well, I got my desktop last autumn with Vista in mind, so with 2gb RAM I don't get any performance hit. As for the drivers I'm sure there might be some problems for some. But all the HW I installed, even some of the older bits, has worked perfectly so far with Vista finding drivers right away. (Couldn't really tell you how the Ipod works on it, since it died on me like a week after I got my new computer hrumph!)
You bought your computer with Vista in mind. Many don't you don't have to buy your new Mac with "Leopard in mind;" if your Mac is less than three years old you can be pretty much assured it will run Apple's next OS.
I agree with you in that... It'll bite Microsoft in the end though, the Enterprise and Business versions are easy to hack. So far, from what I've seen, the only real options available are the business and the Home premium versions, they're the only ones I seen in stores so far.
Yes, it will absolutely bite Mircrosoft in the rear end in the long run.
Hmmm... Even if it comes preloaded with Vista?
Thanks!
Yup. I've certainly heard of preloaded nVidia drivers having trouble with rendering. It's a crapshoot, though, and it sounds like you got lucky.
just FYI, the lampshade iMac, has a G4 - so you won't be able to do the same trick as with the mactels. Running windows on the G4 means using VirtualPC (from within OSX), so as far as I can tell that won't cut it for you...
Graphguy
2007-03-07, 19:07
just FYI, the lampshade iMac, has a G4 - so you won't be able to do the same trick as with the mactels. Running windows on the G4 means using VirtualPC (from within OSX), so as far as I can tell that won't cut it for you...
Oh, I'm not fanatically opposed to OSX or anything like that. As long as it's just on my second computer, I won't mind having to use it. And Virtual PC is horribly slow from what I understand, but thanks for the warning! :)
Be glad that this community tries to give you some solid advice. From many other threads on this forum, you should be able to see we're are a pretty heterogenous bunch otherewise.
I certainly do aprreciate all the people that have tried to help me out, and in case that I havenn't thanked you before, thanks, everybody! Oddly enough, in my experience it's Windows that "just works" and Macs that crash on me. Maybe that's why I prefer the former...
Yes, the 6150 is more powerful than the 950. But powerful enough to make a diffence? You're going to be relegated to 2 year old games either way.
Well, I do like my older games :) I've been able to run Max Payne just fine on my old laptop with integrated S3 graphics, so I take it that both 6150 and 950 will do the same, and more for me?
Or maybe you're referring Office staying on the Mac platform? Contrary to popular belief, the MacBU was never in any real danger of getting the axe. Remember, Office was a Mac program BEFORE it was a Windows program.
Well the investment in Apple stock came just at the right time, and if anything, it sent the message that Microsoft velieved in Apple, at a time when not a whole lot of people did. And if Microsoft for some reason hated Apple as much as some mac-heads hate Microsoft, it would have been easy for them to pull the plug by withdrawing Office for Mac, that's a conpletely different discussion though...
And lets not forget about the form factor, the design, and little niceties like built in motion sensors, cameras, and microphones. Apple hardware is still superior to most PC hardware.
Yeah... The build-quality might be the same as with most PCs (Afterall, it's Asustech that makes the Ibooks, right?) but the well thought out design and quality is what made me interested in the Ibook. I was just wondering what you thought about the Intel switch? Were you a big fan of the &4s/G5s?
Personally I was kinda disappointed, since I almost believed that the PowerPC architecture was superior to Intel's in some cases.
if your Mac is less than three years old you can be pretty much assured it will run Apple's next OS.
I've always been impressed with how well a Mac ages.
(Unfortunately, with the Intel chips this might be a thing of the past)
Which is why I got my girlfriend a four year old Imac. It ran pretty good, untill Apple decided that you had to upgrade Quicktime and some other programs to a later version. This was impossible without a newer version of OSX, so all of a sudden, she couldn't watch any videos online, or log on to some important government-pages. :(
julesstoop
2007-03-07, 19:41
I asume everybody knows what's going on here by now :)
I use my computer for quite a few things, and as a journalist I make a living off it, so I certainly care about my computer.
(emphasis mine)
Graphguy
2007-03-07, 19:49
Huh?
If I recall right, Microsoft investment in Apple was more of a move to keep Apple in good form, otherwise the anti-trust lawsuits going at at the time (if anyone here recalls) might have likely involved in a splitting up of Microsoft.
However, Apple was never in danger of going bankrupt. Apple has always done well enough, and it's more fledgling years (which I remind you were after the years Microsoft invested in Apple), Apple was very cash rich and had a lot of breathing room which they aptly took advantage, see NeXT and Steve Jobs.
As others had said before, far from the Microsoft infusion of cash, it was innovation that saved Apple. Something Microsoft hasn't done since adding integrated spell check.
Well, I do like my older games :) I've been able to run Max Payne just fine on my old laptop with integrated S3 graphics, so I take it that both 6150 and 950 will do the same, and more for me?
I don't think that the 6150 is going to provide any tangible difference over the 950. Yeah, sure, it does great in the 3DMark test, but those are always misleading - especially when dealing with integrated GPUs.
Well the investment in Apple stock came just at the right time, and if anything, it sent the message that Microsoft velieved in Apple, at a time when not a whole lot of people did. And if Microsoft for some reason hated Apple as much as some mac-heads hate Microsoft, it would have been easy for them to pull the plug by withdrawing Office for Mac, that's a conpletely different discussion though...
The "right time" would have been 1991 - 1994. Instead, this happened in 1997, when Jobs was ALREADY back and development of the iMac was well underway.
And of course Microsoft believes in Apple. If it weren't for Apple, where would Microsoft get their ideas? It's a one way relationship - Apple in no way, shape, or form really relies on Microsoft. Even if Microsoft pulled Office tomorrow, iWork has become a completely suitable productivity suite - or, it will be once Numbers comes out, which I believe is right around the corner.
On the other hand, if Macintosh died tomorrow, Microsoft would jump for joy, until they realized they had nobody to steal from. In the meantime, desktop Linux would continue to gain momentum.
Yeah... The build-quality might be the same as with most PCs (Afterall, it's Asustech that makes the Ibooks, right?) but the well thought out design and quality is what made me interested in the Ibook. I was just wondering what you thought about the Intel switch? Were you a big fan of the &4s/G5s?
Personally I was kinda disappointed, since I almost believed that the PowerPC architecture was superior to Intel's in some cases.
No. The build quality is NOT on par with most PCs. I see broken Dells every day; on the other hand, I still have five year old Power Macs goin' strong.
Maybe on par with ThinkPads, Alienwares, and Toshibas, but those are not most PCs. Those PCs consist of about 10% of the market. Most PCs are Dells and HPs, which are plastic hunks of crap. I am speaking from experience here - on a campus with hundreds of Dell optiplexes, they have optical drive, power supply, and hard drive failues frequently. Or, my buddies HP notebook's hard drive bought it two weeks ago. We bought him a MacBook Pro to replace it and he loves it to pieces.
I've always been impressed with how well a Mac ages.
(Unfortunately, with the Intel chips this might be a thing of the past)
Which is why I got my girlfriend a four year old Imac. It ran pretty good, untill Apple decided that you had to upgrade Quicktime and some other programs to a later version. This was impossible without a newer version of OSX, so all of a sudden, she couldn't watch any videos online, or log on to some important government-pages. :(
I don't know what you have against Intel, but they make fine processors these days. NetBurst was a fiasco from day one, but NetBurst is dead and buried. On the other hand, the Core line has recieved nothing but glowing reviews. Conroe's even been called the chip that is saving Intel in the face of AMD's Athlon X2 line.
On the other hand, late gen G4s were lethargic little chips in the face of Intel's offerings. The PowerBook line went two years (2003-2005) with nothing to show for it, except a 667 MHz clock speed increase, which is pitiful. Since 2003, the PowerPC architecture hasn't really gone anywhere. The G5 NEVER reached 3 GHz, in spite of Jobs statement at its announcement. The G5 NEVER got cool enough for notebook use. The G5 was meant to be used in 1U rack servers, not the sexy little machines Apple is known for.
To answer your earlier question, yes, I was thrilled when Apple announced the switch. IBM is focusing on making big, hot, server chips, which is fine. Apple is focusing on making sexy, small laptops and desktops. Intel focuses on making the most power-efficient chips they can. It's a perfect match. Not to mention that we can now virtualize Windows and other OSs.
John Gruber said it best: on the PowerPC, the Mac was different. It was, for better or worse, in its own little universe. On x86, the Mac is special. It now exists as a superset of PC hardware. The Intel switch was one of the best things to ever happen to the Macintosh platform; simply because it opened the Mac up to an entire universe of possibilty that was could never of happened with PPC.
I asume everybody knows what's going on here by now :)
Shit. :p Now I get to be the next Artie MacStrawman.
If I recall right, Microsoft investment in Apple was more of a move to keep Apple in good form, otherwise the anti-trust lawsuits going at at the time (if anyone here recalls) might have likely involved in a splitting up of Microsoft.
However, Apple was never in danger of going bankrupt. Apple has always done well enough, and it's more fledgling years (which I remind you were after the years Microsoft invested in Apple), Apple was very cash rich and had a lot of breathing room which they aptly took advantage, see NeXT and Steve Jobs.
As others had said before, far from the Microsoft infusion of cash, it was innovation that saved Apple. Something Microsoft hasn't done since adding integrated spell check.
This post isn't just a bulls-eye; it's a hole through the center of the target. Bravo.
...
I certainly do aprreciate all the people that have tried to help me out, and in case that I havenn't thanked you before, thanks, everybody! Oddly enough, in my experience it's Windows that "just works" and Macs that crash on me. Maybe that's why I prefer the former...
(
The Missing Link!! :lol: ;)
I've never heard or read that assertion before, but if it works for you fantastic. That's the point isn't it.
Pray tell what kind of journalism you do, i.e., what type of publication(s) carry your work?
The Missing Link!! :lol: ;)
I've never heard or read that assertion before, but if it works for you fantastic. That's the point isn't it.
Pray tell what kind of journalism you do, i.e., what type of publication(s) carry your work?
Yeah, seconded. If Windows does work for you, then use it. It's just that more often than not, I find Windows advocates to be misinformed, out of date, or on Microsoft's payroll. Or all three.
Graphguy
2007-03-09, 21:13
Just wondering, what would you say is the buildquality on a HP laptop?
Just wondering, what would you say is the buildquality on a HP laptop?
Relatively speaking, poor.
Dell < HP < Toshiba < Sony < Alienware < ThinkPad.
If I were to buy a PC, I'd buy an Alienware for sheer power, or a ThinkPad for portability. HP and Dell would at the bottom of my list.
The only Windows notebook or tablet I would touch would be a ThinkPad. I've just had (or seen) too many problems with other brands, even with my Toshiba. And getting a Vaio is like paying the Apple premium without getting what makes a Mac great (which, in retrospect, is exactly what Graphguy wanted to do).
An Apple sale is an apple sale, right?
That comment bothers me a lot, because it suggests that we're all just trying to fill Apple's coffers. We're not. The reason you saw such a spirited reaction to your suggestion of buying a MacBook and deleting OS X was because most of us view that as a decision that would be disadvantageous to you, not to Apple.
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