Digital Camera Purchasing Advice

[iFerret]

So I just realised that my camera is utter crap. Mind you, it cost me the equivalent of $100 dollars new, so I can't complain.

But that's beside the point - I need a new camera. I'm looking at something less than $500 US (preferably around $400 US), something kinda nice that takes semi-decent shots and that sort of wholesome goodness.

At school, I've used the Sony CyberShot DSC-H1 and H2, both of which I thought were very nice, and some of the pics I've seen taken by those cameras are pretty good. Thus, my preference would lie with Sony, but I've seen some shots taken by the "other" school camera, a Canon PowerShot of some description (it's fairly high-end apparently, but no one uses it, because it's always locked up) - also nice.

I know I'm not going to dget dSLR at that price range, but I'm not interested in dSLR (not yet, anyway).

Can anyone please recommend me a decent camera, less than $500 US (preferably around $400 US)?

TIA

[drewprops]

Dorian will be along shortly to put you straight ;)

Meanwhile, I have a Powershot A640 (I think?) and like some of the features but haven't had time to become adept at using the thing yet. Am still conflicted, wishing that I'd bought the G9 instead. I like the way that the Canon products play friendly with the Mac, from photos to videos.

A lot of my PC using friends have Sony cameras and seem happy with them.

I'm personally put off by the Sony kit only because of my experience with other Sony computer accessories being PC-only, sometimes to the point of seeming to be "Mac-hostile" even when they're marginally compatible (sans software). I've traditionally been a fan of the Sony line and would hope that their camera gear is more Mac friendly than I'm imagining.... look forward to hearing other opinions on this.

[iFerret]

Dorian will be along shortly to put you straight ;)
I imagined Dorian getting involved, I've read some of his other posts re. subjects like this.


Meanwhile, I have a Powershot A640 (I think?) and like some of the features but haven't had time to become adept at using the thing yet. Am still conflicted, wishing that I'd bought the G9 instead. I like the way that the Canon products play friendly with the Mac, from photos to videos.

Ah, while good, I am sadly no longer a Mac user. The reseller I worked at after school is dead, our Mac at home had the logic board die, school has successfully killed off just about every Mac there (four eMacs remain and are rarely used, five including a teacher's PowerBook) and I don't own a Mac myself (this, though, will change next year. Thus, I will consider something being Mac-friendly as one of its most improtant features.)


A lot of my PC using friends have Sony cameras and seem happy with them.

I'm personally put off by the Sony kit only because of my experience with other Sony computer accessories being PC-only, sometimes to the point of seeming to be "Mac-hostile" even when they're marginally compatible (sans software). I've traditionally been a fan of the Sony line and would hope that their camera gear is more Mac friendly than I'm imagining.... look forward to hearing other opinions on this.
Yer, as I said, my experience with them at school has been all good - there's nothing negative I can recall, although school is very PC-centric, so I've never encountered issues with Sony + Mac. It's kind of sad the whole compatibility thing, though I understand it from Sony's point of view. Not working with OS X could be a shitty attempt to sell more VAIOs, but how many people (except Sony fans, obviously) are going to buy a VAIO as a Windows computer? Here, VAIOs are just as, if not more, expensive than Macs.

I too have been - I've always liked BRAVIA, CyberShot and HandyCam. Plus I've used Vegas, SoundForge (or whatever Sony's sound program is) and Acid extensively.

[Matsu]

But you can get a DSLR at that price range. You can get an Olympus e410 with a 14-42 (28-84) equivalent lens, for about $561. This is a small combination which is no more difficult to carry than than an H2.

If size is not an issue, only price, then there are still a number of older gen or entry level cameras available for about 400 without lenses. Their 6MP files will completely outperform the small sensor digicam images. You can get refurb Canon Rebe XT for under 400 as well. Its file gives plenty of detail, better than the 6MP set, and completely beyond anything from a digicam.

Lots of small compact lenses available for not much dough also

[iFerret]

But you can get a DSLR at that price range. You can get an Olympus e410 with a 14-42 (28-84) equivalent lens, for about $561. This is a small combination which is no more difficult to carry than than an H2.

If size is not an issue, only price, then there are still a number of older gen or entry level cameras available for about 400 without lenses. Their 6MP files will completely outperform the small sensor digicam images. You can get refurb Canon Rebe XT for under 400 as well. Its file gives plenty of detail, better than the 6MP set, and completely beyond anything from a digicam.

Lots of small compact lenses available for not much dough also

I didn't think dSLRs were quite that cheap, and although they might be in the US, such prices don't translate very well to over here. I took a look at a couple of dSLRs in a shop the other day, and the lowest priced one they had (the salesperson said it was entry-level) was about $900 US (roughly).

Size is kind of an issue - I can't have anything too big, as this will be carried around a little bit (not too much though, so something similar in size to the H2 and around there is probably best. The Olympus you suggested will be looked into, but knowing my luck, probably isn't sold here or is probably 3-4 times more expensive than it should be. I'll also look into the Canon Rebel.

Though, seeing as this is not just my camera and it's going to be used by every man and his dog (by which I mean the rest of the family, none of whom own dogs anymore) and most of whom are technophobes (we're the only ones with a computer), is a dSLR suitable for their use? Obviously to them, there's not many steps in taking a photo: aiming and pressing and that's about it. If any knobs need turning, andy dials need touching, switches switching and settings changed (including stuff like lenses and whatnot) then they're not going to be able to use it, no matter how much I try to teach them. So, can such techtards (jeez I'm nice about my family) use a dSLR and use it kind of well?

[Dorian Gray]

Sorry guys. :lol:

I'm in a mad rush packing stuff for moving home tomorrow, but I'll just mention that I got a Sony DSC-H2 for a family member a year ago, and it's been a pretty good camera. I've used it a bit myself and come to the conclusion that although it feels light and flimsy, it's usable enough and has a decent lens despite the 10x zoom ratio. (There is plenty of chromatic aberration off-axis, and it doesn't really do the 6 MP sensor justice in terms of sharpness, but these problems seem to affect all small-sensor cameras.)

This photo (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/833/eggcq7.jpg) was taken with the camera, as was this one (http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7619/stormont700x467dt3.jpg) (1920 x 1280 version here (http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7706/stormont1920x1280gm9.jpg)).

With a DSLR (look for Pentax K100D and K110D models for really cheap SLRs) you can get better pics without such a struggle (for example, the above photos were both taken with a tripod because the images from a DSC-H2 are only smooth at the lowest ISO). In addition to their much better image quality, SLRs also have quicker autofocus, which isn't usually a problem for someone who can learn the quirks of a slow autofocus system, but may be for someone who's technologically illiterate.

I wouldn't overspend, to be honest. DSLRs are still a bit expensive for my taste, considering that they are still improving rapidly and aren't built to last for more than a year or two of frequent use.

[turtle]

You might be able to get a Canon Rebel XT (350D) for about $500 with kit lens. Since the XTi is the main push the older XT has dropped in price a fair bit here in the states. BH has them from $469.95. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=ps&sq=desc&ac=&bsi=&shs=rebel+xt&ci=6222&fakeSubmitButton=Submit) This is a good camera for the price. Look through my photos in the Color Photography (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=21241) thread for some examples of images I've taken with it.

As for the "techtards" in your family, yeah it's user friendly. Just set the mode to Auto or Portrait for them and have them press the button half way to focus and then the rest of the way to shoot. Pretty simple and they won't need to change from the kit lens for most of their uses.

[Lyngo]

I was in Wal-Mart the other day and saw a Sony A100K being discontinued for $400, so I decided to give it a try not knowing too much about the camera. Now granted, I am new to the world of dSLR cameras, but I figured a $800 half off wasn't too bad.

As discussed on another thread, I opened the camera and there was a scratch on the inside of the lens so I preceded to take the camera back and get a full refund. Yesterday, I picked up a Nikon D40 at the recommendation of a friend who mentioned this camera is a good starting point for people new to the world of dSLRs. I used it a ton yesterday and have enjoyed the picture quality.

The price point of the Nikon D40 is fairly good. I was able to get a second lens for $100 after $100 off instantly on some Nikon deal associated with that camera purchase and a gear bag with a 2 year extended warranty for $60. I can post a link to some pictures if you would like. So far, I've enjoyed the experience.

Best of luck in your findings.

- Jay

[UfoPilot]

There is not much mark-up on cameras, so I would suggest going to a camera store. They will be more knowledgeable and the prices are going to be the same. Anything over 3MP's is going to make good pictures. You don't need a large MP camera unless you are going to do a lot of 8X10 or larger pictures. Look for optical zoom specs, how it fits your hand and the location of the buttons.

[Boomerangmacuser]

I have a Kodak POS. Don't buy one. The only thing I like about mine is the fact it shoots video clips in MOV and not AVI. I'm not sure how easily AVI files integrate with iPhoto and Quicktime. Anyone out there know?

My work just got a Canon Powershot A560 and it's really nice at a cheap price ($150 CAD). All camera manufacturers seem to compare their products to Canon. That says a lot IMO.

[Dorian Gray]

AVI is just a container, and one that QuickTime supports, no problem. Some of the video and audio codecs used are more problematic, though most cameras that use AVI use Motion-JPEG, which QuickTime also supports out of the box. It's easy to add QuickTime codecs if you happen to get a camera that uses an odd codec.

[iFerret]

I checked out dSLRs here, and they're way way way out of my budget: they're about $1500 NZD, so about $1100 USD. And that was a very basic model (can't remember which).

So, it looks like a digital camera for me. I've seen some Canons and they do take nice pictures, so it's either Sony or Canon. Thanks for our responses.

[Brave Ulysses]

I just got a Canon SD950IS "Point and Shoot" with optical image stablization. 12.1 megapixels (kind of useless, more bragging rights, but it also has a larger censor than the rest of Canon's compacts.

Wonderful camera, has all the buzzwords and specs you could ever want. Takes beautiful pictures, has great reviews... retails in the US for around $350.

[NosferaDrew]

...Meanwhile, I have a Powershot A640 (I think?) and like some of the features but haven't had time to become adept at using the thing yet. Am still conflicted, wishing that I'd bought the G9 instead. I like the way that the Canon products play friendly with the Mac, from photos to videos...
I just bought a G9 a week ago and I love it!
I no nothing about the myriad of manual controls (coming strictly from simple point/shoot cameras), but I'm looking forward to learning this camera in detail.

The biggest issue I'm having is RAW support.
I have Photoshop CS2 and it doesn't recognize my RAW photos. Likewise, Aperture doesn't support the G9 yet, so I'm waiting for an update.

[bender0069]

My husband bought me a Canon G9 for Christmas. It seems like a pretty good camera. It's much more of a camera than I wanted, but he keeps telling me I'll probably want to play with the features eventually. I just wanted a decent point and shoot, that would print out good quality if I wanted a hard copy. So far I'm pleased, but I don't know if I'll ever buy lenses and such. I just need help with close-ups. I've been trying to take good close-ups of some of the flowers I have and I can't seem to get it right.

[iFerret]

This is a really, really dumb question, but I've been looking at the Canon EOS 400D, which although way out of our price range, is attainable with a bit of penny-pinching. The EOS 400D appears to have no zoom function, a the review I read made no mention of it, and the buttons which appear to control zoom actually have other functions in shooting mode.

Seriously, how the hell do you zoom?

[Ryan]

This is a really, really dumb question, but I've been looking at the Canon EOS 400D, which although way out of our price range, is attainable with a bit of penny-pinching. The EOS 400D appears to have no zoom function, a the review I read made no mention of it, and the buttons which appear to control zoom actually have other functions in shooting mode.

Seriously, how the hell do you zoom?If you have a zoom lens, you turn a large ring on the lens itself to zoom. I assume you're looking at the kit, which includes an 18-55mm zoom.

BTW, light blue labels apply in review mode, white apply in shooting mode.

[iFerret]

Ah I see. I'm used to the point and shoot-style rocker, switch, buttons, or dial, etc. Thank you Ryan.

[scratt]

I have no idea about the optics on this or anything else.. but Gruber just put an article up on this one...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08010601casiof1.asp

Insane rapid fire features. I am going to get one to replace my aging Canon G5.
As most people should know by now anything over 6MP is just big-dick syndrome, so I am glad to see that Casio have gone after some more useful features rather than just how big a number they can stick on the CCD.

Surely we are rapidly getting to the point soon when the camera could well die (at least technically) and everything is just HD Video.
In other words the form factor is kept to keep oldies happy, but in the box it's the same technology in both items.

[Dorian Gray]

As Ryan mentioned, SLR cameras don't have an electric zoom function. If a zoom lens is attached, the zoom is controlled by turning a purely mechanical ring on the lens. The benefit of this is that the focal length can be very precisely adjusted, rather than dealing with the frustrating step adjustments that electric zooms impose. You can also switch from one extreme of the zoom to the other in a flash, by simply twisting your wrist, rather than waiting for an electric motor to slowly adjust the lens. Obviously it saves battery power too.

BTW, beginners often get confused by the word "zoom". A zoom lens is one with a variable focal length*, not necessarily one with a long focal length (i.e. a lens that allows one to take close-up photos from a distance). The huge lenses used by sports photographers aren't typically zooms, but simply lenses with a very long but fixed focal length (they're also telephotos, which means they have a shorter physical length than their optical focal length, but that's a technicality you can probably ignore).

A side-effect of this confusion is that beginners often have trouble understanding what a figure such as "3x" means when applied to a zoom: a state of affairs that is ruthlessly exploited by camera manufacturers. With binoculars, 10x means that the binocular magnifies the image 10x compared to what we see with the naked eye. In cameras, a 10x lens means that the longest focal length (when the lens is "zoomed in") is 10x longer than the shortest focal length (at the wide end of the zoom). Because people like the idea of being able to take close-up photos from a distance, big zoom-ratio numbers (like 10x rather than 3x) sell cameras, as the consumer thinks it means the lens can get closer (which it incidentally often does, though not necessarily). But it's much more technically difficult (i.e. expensive) to make a 10x zoom lens that starts at a strong wide-angle (like 24 mm) and zooms to 240 mm, than one that starts at a mediocre wide-angle (like 38 mm) and zooms to 380 mm. Unfortunately, a lens wider than 38 mm is far more photographically useful than a lens longer than 240 mm, unless you're photographing wildlife on safari or something of that nature. So we're saddled with billions of digicams with overly long lenses, at the expense of decent wide-angle capabilities, simply because of market ignorance. (The SLR market suffers from this problem less, as SLR buyers usually have more photographic experience.)

There are a few small digital cameras with wide-angle zooms, but they're rare. Perhaps the best-known example is the Ricoh Caplio GX100 (http://www.ricoh.co.uk/products/showrecord.cfm?NODE=369&topnode=369&KEY=CaplioGX100&KEYWORD=&MAXPRICE=&ORDERBY=&QUANTITY=10&STARTROW=1&camefrom=) with its 24-72 mm-e lens.

You might find this website useful for defending yourself from the marketing hype: http://6mpixel.org/en/

* Strictly speaking, many of today's so-called zoom lenses are actually varifocal lenses, meaning that their focus changes when the focal length is adjusted. In contrast, parfocal lenses, or "true" zooms, maintain focus when the focal length is varied. This is an important characteristic for motion-picture or video lenses, and to a lesser extent for manual-focus still camera lenses, but doesn't matter much with an autofocus still camera, which can quickly refocus after the focal length is adjusted.

[iFerret]

I'm now looking at some 'bridge' camera models from Fujifilm, namely the S9600/S9100 and the S6500fd/S6000fd. They've both got manual zoom lenses (which I like) and both seem to take good pictures.

I can't decide which one is best - they're essentially the same except the S9600 has 9 megapixels compared to the S6500fd's 6 or so megapixels. The S6500fd takes better pictures and stuff though.

The S9600 is around US$200 more expensive though.

Any ideas?