View Full Version : Possible iPod Flash Photos?!
www.themacmind.com has published photos pertaining to be those of the rumered iPod flash model analysts have been claiming that Apple will be releasing soon. The page has been /.'ed so you might have a hard time reaching it, here's the photo. http://homepage.mac.com/nfhulsin8025/PhotoAlbum14.html
some links:
http://www.i.themacmind.com/
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/07/1610228&tid=176
BuonRotto
2004-12-07, 17:10
Note that it's their own rendering/interpretation of the thing. They haven't actually seen one, but it's been described to them by their two sources.
I don't see how it'd work without a screen, I'm highly doubtful.
make it a usb or firewire keychain and I'd be on board... if there is less then a gig of space, then I'd just keep the thing on random anyway...
kscherer
2004-12-07, 22:55
I cannot see Apple doing this. The interface is what really draws people. The ability to navigate the iPod with ease is critical. Without the screen, Apple is just building another troublesome trinket.
No way! :no:
BarracksSi
2004-12-07, 23:22
I want an Apple flash audio player so that I can have something that interfaces as well with iTunes as my 3G iPod, can play the AAC files I've bought through iTMS, and has a kickass interface.
I love how this one looks, but I don't see how it'll work that well without a screen. But, there are other players out there that have no screen either, right? And, since I'd mainly use it for physical activities, I might not need to bother with having to look at it.
Hmm....
BarracksSi
2004-12-07, 23:31
I love how this one looks, but I don't see how it'll work that well without a screen....
Hmmm again --
What if it slides open, and there's a screen inside? Imagine the iPod mini's screen sliding under its scroll wheel, which would be as small as this supposed mockup.
It'll still have to be thick enough on at least one half to fit an audio jack and FW socket (which would be more portable than a dock connector, honestly), but a lil' thing like that wouldn't end up being too fat anyway.
Hmmm again --
What if it slides open, and there's a screen inside? Imagine the iPod mini's screen sliding under its scroll wheel, which would be as small as this supposed mockup.
I suppose thats possible, but it would probably be pretty expensive. I think with the Flash iPod Apple is going to try targeting the lower end of the market, sub 100$ or circa 100$. However I do agree with the general disinterest in the presented interface, and the interface is what initially drew people to the iPod, IIRC. If Apple did manage to create an audio player comparable in size to a keychain, I would be both amazed and on board, 100%. It would be wonderful for mundane tasks like working out and ... sneaking into class. :)
I don't agree with the interface, tho sadly I cannot offer any alternatives that will fit the size specs exhibited here. Perhaps a few line display with no playlists and just song selection capabilities. I don't know. I am eager to hear more news of this.
Come to think of it, a battery would probably be a pretty major size constraint, it might be flash but how much power does it need?
- I am inexperienced in the power requirements of flash, I might be wrong.
bborofka
2004-12-08, 00:21
I cannot see Apple doing this. The interface is what really draws people. The ability to navigate the iPod with ease is critical. Without the screen, Apple is just building another troublesome trinket.
No way! :no:
Unfortunately, some people aren't drawn to the iPod because of its price, me included. This is perfect for people that don't want a $250+ iPod and don't need their whole library with them.
No screen? While it would be nice to see something like a track number, I can live without it especially if it reduces cost and size. I'm sure Apple will do it right.
byzantium
2004-12-08, 03:18
If you check out the MWSF thread, I mentioned a flash ipod with no screen on Nov 29th -- based on what I heard from a friend who works for the design firm that was contracted out for it.
I think no screen isn't as big a deal as some may think. If it only has a storage of 256 mb -- that holds only 64 tracks @ 4 mb a track. Not exactly alot. Even at 512 mb, that's only about 128 tracks. That sounds like a device that's meant to hold songs for a specific purpose -- maybe working out at the gym or a weekend trip. At that capacity, I know I would just put my favorite tracks on it.
The design that macmind has shown, btw, is a mockup. I'm assured the real thing looks much nicer than you might think, and the dimensions are different.
As for those who don't think Apple could compete with this without a screen in a very competitive flash market; well I think Apple is leveraging iTunes and the music store. I know I wouldn't buy a player that doesn't work with iTunes and protected AAC. Apple's the leader in the music place right now, there is no reason not to buy an iPod if it's the same price as another, not as compatible device.
oldmacfan
2004-12-08, 09:25
Good Morning, the biggest worries I have seen around the net is the no screen issue. If apple comes out with a screenless iPod, they could do a very simple UI with spoken prompts and user feedback through the controls. You wouldn't just dump 64-256 songs on it, you would put in playlists through iTunes and that would help give it a more manageable structure.
Messiahtosh
2004-12-08, 10:03
I still refuse to believe that Apple will release a screenless-iPod.
DMBand0026
2004-12-08, 10:40
Same here. I don't think it'll look like that. The slick user interface is one of the biggest reasons for the iPod's success. That thing...it might as well just be a hunk of plastic with a button or two. Nothing that screams "Apple."
Perhaps a Play/Pause button would be nice to have on a player.
applenut
2004-12-08, 11:35
bullllllshit
no screen, no deal.
people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.
If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 11:50
Charming, and sweet, as always.
I'm in the "no screen, no way" camp... and even though it's a mockup I hate the design. In any case, at least it couldn't be as bad as this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Godot_Aria_Mubie_M4150_128MB/4505-6490_7-31077839.html
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/31077839-2-300-overview-1.gif
:lol: :D
oldmacfan
2004-12-08, 12:08
bullllllshit
no screen, no deal.
people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.
If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
Um, did you actually read what I wrote, before responding...(64 songs does not equal 64 MB) and I used the word "If" to suggest a possible new user interface that is technologically feasible and potentially more user friendly than the present one.
FWIW, Sanada (applele.com (http://www.applele.com/)) has thrown his 2 cents in:
http://www.applele.com/img/picture_f_hipod_r03b.jpg
madmaxmedia
2004-12-08, 12:18
Just to play devil's advocate-
To say that it's complete nonsense just because it's not just like an iPod or iPod Mini is a little too conventional thinking IMO.
If Apple were to design a flash player with 1 GB or less, I am sure they really studied user habits of these types of devices vs. a multi-GB player. When they are used, how they are used (or could be used), etc. In particular, how one might design a 256 MB to 1 GB player so that it wouldn't be tossed in a drawer. Maybe $99 is still too low a price, but if it had the iPod Mini design then $199 may still be too low, and then there's only very marginal benefit to a flash iPod Mini vs. a regular iPod Mini. So if anything, if Apple does do a flash player then maybe something out of left field is to be expected (more exciting this way too!)
This would be just as the original iPod, which at first drew a collective "Huh?" from everyone. Innovative new design doesn't come from dupllicating 1 design all the way down the line, it comes from designing for the particular application.
In general, I agree with the doubts expressed about a mp3 player without a screen, but who knows. Maybe there is some new software features that differentiate this from their other players, with very tight iTunes integration. Someone else mentioned using shuffle a lot, what if with iTunes it automatically swapped out the existing songs with new ones (based on stuff like user rating, selected genre, tempo, user generated playlists, smart playlists, or even completely at random if you're feeling wild) with a single command in iTunes (or automatically when you docked it.) I think the basic idea would be to minimize the work involved in swapping songs, and keeping things fresh. That would make the most of the limited storage, and might represent a new way of using these smaller flash players. You get something fresh every time, just like listening to the radio. And doing this has to be very fast, literally seconds so people don't get impatient, which is why it would use Firewire vs. USB 1.
If they can doing something innovative like this, then they can get away with a very simple and small design, AND they can sell it starting at $99. Think about how stripped down the pictured player is vs. even a typical cheapie player. By leveraging a user's $1000+ computer as much as possible, they can cut the price of the player as much as possible.
Starting at $99, it would be an impulse buy for even existing iPod owners, who now hav something to carry when they go exercise (rather than risk dropping or damaging a $500 iPod.) Also, with this type of interface, it may not really matter whether you have 256 MB or 512 MB, since songs get swapped out so frequently anyways.
If you don't like that, then get an iPod Mini or iPod and you can have a more conventional player without the capacity limitation.
My wife and father-in-law have Rio Nitrus players. They are great little units, but the problem is they have never actually switched the songs! They're just not very tech-savvy, and as a result don't realize the benefits of these players, and end up not using the players much. I think this is why many flash players end up gathering dust, not just because of the limited capacity. It's all about the overall user experience, not about specs (specs of course play a part, but do not in themselves represent the ultimate success or failure of a product.) People weren't impressed by the iPod's specs, but obviously the end result was greater than the specs themselves.
Also, maybe there's more on the other side...some sort of button to help with navigation?
oldmacfan
2004-12-08, 12:22
bullllllshit
no screen, no deal.
people who believe this crap are dumbasses. you think Apple. who's main selling point and success has been its simple and intuitive interface is all of a sudden going to ditch that? you think they are going to release a 64MB Flash player that only fits a dozen songs and that Jobs has been talking shit about and saying that's exactly the WRONG experience for listening to music.
If they DO release a flash based MP3 player it will be a 1 or 2GB player in the iPod mini case. The iPod mini's hard drive is already as small as a flash card. The size advantage is non-existent. All they have to do is swap in a cheaper drive or card and they have a cheap flash based MP3 player
While I am at it, if Apple actually releases a flash based iPod, and if Apple gets rid of the screen, they have the potential to make an even higher profit margin than that of the other iPod lines while tapping a market segment that is not yet served by Apple with an iPod.
thegelding
2004-12-08, 12:48
i'm with paul...i would likely put songs i love on it or songs i love to run, bike, exercise too on it, and then have it set to random...no screen needed...
changing out the songs every couple of days or every couple of weeks...
i have an iPod to take on trips and in the car and such already with my full sized iPod
the iPod egg would be just for exercise, at least for me
this would not be an iPod to take your songs to a friends house, or for a party or rave or three week trip
that is what the 4g iPod is for and even the iPod mini
a screen would be nice, but not a deal breaker for me
small and light is the key for me
but then i have a 3g and an iPod mini so i am apple's bitch anyways
g
edit: that being said, i would prefer a screen, i would prefer it to go with an armband rather than hang around my neck and bounce about while running
and i would feel better if thinksecret or macrumors was picking this rumor up also... till then it is fairly questionable data
edit 2: an underwater model would be nice for us swimmers
FWIW, Sanada (applele.com (http://www.applele.com/)) has thrown his 2 cents in:
http://www.applele.com/img/picture_f_hipod_r03b.jpg
Now that is a nice design! Isamu Sanada has been cranking out the best mockups for a decade longer than pscates has. I worship them both. ;)
I like the round design. My wish for Apple's Flash iPod is a 1 - 2GB flash player that is water-/splash-proof for running and the gym (and of course completely skip-proof due to the solid-state flash memory). I'm thinking of a cross between Sony's original Sports Walkman, Rio's current Forge (and the older Cali) sports-oriented MP3 player, and Apple's iPod mini.
I'm still iPod-less. And I'll be hobbling along with my wife's Sony Sports CD Walkman until Apple releases a Flash iPod. I don't want no stinking HDD! :D
Escher
BuonRotto
2004-12-08, 15:24
Actually, the problems with that mock-up are that it would be hard to hold and not press or scroll by accident, the screen text there would have to be miniscule unless the thing is the size of a CD, and the wasted area around the display is -- what exactly? Looks OK, doesn't pass industrial design 101 IMO.
thegelding
2004-12-08, 15:31
think of it this way:
they release a simple, cheap flash player (no frills) for 99 bucks
a waterproof, gym-rat flash model for 149
have the iPod mini at 199 to 249 (4 gig model and new 6 gig model)
have the iPod classic for storing songs, photos and files
why would anybody buy an mp3/music player from anybody but apple??
g
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 15:34
Ha...I have a fan in Escher! :p
I sorta like the round thing above, but that square screen just seems plopped in there, in that circle, and not quite elegant or fitting. No, I'm not suggesting a round screen (SMACK!).
Perhaps those gray arcs/wedges should just be white and NOT emphasing the circle aspect in that particular area? If those gray wedges were just white, like the rest of the thing, and the little square screen simply floated in a sea of white (uh, like the current iPod? ;) ), it would look a bit more cohesive and dialed-in, IMO.
http://homepage.mac.com/pscates/mockups/cpod.jpg
However, I have to agree with BuonRotto above...seems like a lot of wasted space, making for a really small, unusable screen (postage stamp sized, from what I can estimate?). Not quite sure what I think of the actual DESIGN (the execution, of course, is amazing...as always). Just not completely sold on the "doughnut" approach, overall. I'd like to see it in some sort of scale, because the earbuds just don't register with me.
Maybe that would help.
:confused:
Ha...I have a fan in Escher! :p
:lol: Bow down. But Isamu Sanada still has a leg up on you, Paul. ;)
I like the round thing above, but that square screen just seems plopped in there, in that circle, and not quite elegant or fitting. No, I'm not suggesting a round screen (SMACK!), but if that square screen was gone, it would look much better.
Actually, the Rio Forge looks like it has a round screen. I think it's perfect in terms of size and shape. Main issue is that it has a (relatively) lousy interface and doesn't play AAC songs.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002UB2Q4.01._PE19_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Apple can't make a Flash iPod soon enough. For all I care, they could slap a rubber case on an iPod mini and swap the 4GB HDD for a 1GB CF card and I'd be happy.
Escher
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 15:46
:lol: Bow down. But Isamu Sanada still has a leg up on you, Paul. ;)
Yes he does. I would never think otherwise.
I love looking at his site, and if I ever DO get into, and learn, a proper 3D illustration app, he'll be the main inspiration why.
:)
For now, I just stick with what I know and what I can handle...good ol' Illustrator! Frankly, I think I've carved out a respectable little niche for myself over the years with my approach, if all the e-mails, PMs, iChat invites/introductions from strangers, questions, requests for tips, etc. are any indication! I've popped into places - even non-Mac-related forums or chats - and it seems someone will always go "hey, aren't you that guy...". Those two pages in that new book don't hurt either, I'm learning! Blows my mind, to be honest.
:eek:
Mellow, low-level popularity and attention, minus all the baggage and hassle that accompanies full-blown fame (no stolen sex videos and whatnot).
:D
I got NO complaints.
Messiahtosh
2004-12-08, 15:51
http://www.digimania.be/imgdb/prods/Rio_Cali256-xl.jpg This is the rio cali. The rio cali is the product that Steve Jobs slammed a year ago, when touting the iPod mini's design.
BuonRotto
2004-12-08, 15:57
I think a doughnut might be OK, but back the buttons off the edge a tad. Biggest problem is with the display which would make better use of fewer lines (less height) but keeping its width, or something close to it. If you work from the inside out, literally, from the display to the edges, you can see where the milano-shape makes more sense if there is a display. It brings up the trouble with any display at such a small size, even if it's one line that shows info ticker-tape style. I can see why people speculate/report that an iPod micro might not have any display.
The thing would seem to be so small that it's more akin to the iPod remote than an iPod, and that remote seems to work well as it is, the shirt clip maybe could be more refined.
The speculation that it's associated with some other secret thing would make more sense when you consider the iPod micro from that perspective. Could it also be a remote for either an iPod Express setup, an iMac with wireless card or with a new dock design? Can it sync wirelessly from a host Mac? Does it come attached to a new pair of exercise headphones? I just get the feeling that there's something more than just a straight-up teeny tiny iPod that gives the product more focus or appeal for a certain demographic.
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 16:08
Ooh, that green round thing isn't attractive at all. We're spoiled, having the iPod as the standard-bearer. :)
BuonRotto
2004-12-08, 16:32
Yes he does. I would never think otherwise.
I love looking at his site, and if I ever DO get into, and learn, a proper 3D illustration app, he'll be the main inspiration why.
You know, I've never heard these apps described in that way. :) Interesting if only to show the differences in our backgrounds.
on-topic: the Rio looks like it goes a GI Joe action belt accessory. We are indeed spoiled. :) Really, I think a stick/board shape makes more sense as a basis of design here even if it has rounded edges like the MacMind mock-up. Remember, this thing would be less than palm-sized, so the circle to me seems more difficult to handle than a stick/rectangle, unless it were attached to your pocket or belt like those old-timey chained watches. As an untethered design, it seems hard to holdit and use its buttons at the same time when it's that small.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of the round design - seems like they were designed for an older form of music transportation (ie: CDs) ... that nod to the physicality of yester-year's ( :o ) music medium is unnecessary. ;)
If/when Apple relases a flash based iPod I'll be firmly in the camp with those waiting for a water/splash proof model.
Whilst speculation about the new design is fun - what really gets me going is the fact that Apple will now cover all the bases for portable music players. They'll have an iPod at every price point. What reason would there be *not* to buy an iPod? ... as Homer once retorted to Marge: "At today's petrol prices, we can't afford not to buy a pony" - OK the analogy is tenuous, but I love that quote. :D
iPod - best *switch* device evah!
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 18:32
That would indeed be quite amazing if Apple somehow was able to produce a $99 device, give or take. Let's see...from $99 to $599, perfectly tied in with iTunes and the iTMS (two "best of breed" products if there ever were).
I don't think anyone could come along and knock Apple off this particular perch. Not in the foreseeable future, anyway.
And for all the silly talk and hype about various "iPod killers" and new "online music stores", the simple truth is this: these guys are running a good 18 months (or more) BEHIND Apple, just in terms of "getting it" and overall vision. Add to that the sheer and utter lack of cohesion and sense of "okay...yeah, this all works together BEAUTIFULLY" that only Apple seems to have.
If Apple came out with some music players that were cute, well-designed and actually AFFORDABLE to the typical high-schooler or casual jogger/walker or whatever, no one could touch them. They'd have all the bases properly covered, IMO.
About all anyone could do is offer a true piece-of-shit $49 128MB player that no one with half a brain would ever buy.
I'd still love to see them get this aggressive with their computers, properly piggybacking them to the iPod success (I think we heard one mention of it in Paris - "from the makers of iPod" - and not much of a damn thing since then, right? I truly expected at least ONE iMac G5 commercial, considering that this is, oh, CHRISTMAS time and all.
:confused:
Even if it was just a re-edited, shortened version of that intro video of the iMac G5 and iPod, looking all cute and kick-ass together...at least it would be something quite eyecatching and appealing.
Messiahtosh
2004-12-08, 18:46
The iMac G5 was on CNN today, as one of the best things to buy this holiday shopping season. A nice run-down of the product was given, at around 5:45 PM ET.
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 18:51
Yeah, well I work...so I missed it. :)
Excellent strategy, however...putting it on when basically NO ONE is home to see it...the irony - of course - being that anyone who that might appeal to and actually consider such a purchase is still at work, making money that they can spend on such a product. Kudos! :p
Maybe they can repeat it at about 4am this coming Sunday, since that's prime TV viewing time by everyone too!
Messiahtosh
2004-12-08, 19:00
Yeah, well I work...so I missed it. :)
Excellent strategy, however...putting it on when basically NO ONE is home to see it...the irony - of course - being that anyone who that might appeal to and actually consider such a purchase is still at work, making money that they can spend on such a product. Kudos! :p
Maybe they can repeat it at about 4am this coming Sunday, since that's prime TV viewing time by everyone too!It's probably on a repeat cycle, as CNN usually is...sort of like every news network and ESPN. God how I hate being able to watch one 'episode' of ESPN like 3 times and still be intrigued by the highlights. :lol:
psgamer0921
2004-12-08, 19:30
This is an entry from the iPodlounge contest for the design of the next iPod
http://gallery.ipodlounge.com/ipod/albums/userpics/normal_ipodbaby.jpg
Please say this is an amazing PS job...
psmith2.0
2004-12-08, 20:02
I think it just might be an amazing "cut out a lifesize 4G iPod photo, glue it to some foamcore, add some cables, etc.".
:D
Although, I have to say: I'm kinda impressed. I like that top-mounted single-line view screen. Earbuds out the bottom, FireWire in from the side, etc. He deserved to win, if only for the realistic, passionate effort (which often counts big in life).
:)
I'm seen worse, uglier mockups...including mine! :lol:
I do like that one, it has everything that makes the big iPods good but it still crams it into a smaller package. In general I think the new one will have a screen on it, it will probably be just one line but that is all that you really need for the 100 or so songs on it.
BarracksSi
2004-12-09, 00:14
... it has everything that makes the big iPods good...
Especially the full-sized click wheel. We all know that buttons & controls get to a point where they're just too damned small to use easily. If a flash iPod can manage to have fully thumb-sized controls, it would work really well.
That single-line display would be enough, too.
madmaxmedia
2004-12-10, 12:21
If the supposed Apple design had a 1-line display, I would still consider it the best design. All these other mockups with wheels and such are cool looking, but would cost too much. The designs with full-sized wheels would also be very hard to operate with one-hand.
The more I consider it, the more I am sure Apple really will come out with something very minimalist. Nothing else makes sense- there's no point in buying a $199 256 MB player when you can get an iPod Mini for only a little more (especially since the Mini will gradually drop in price or add more capacity as well.) Apple is not going to make a flash player unless it is significantly different than a low-capacity iPod Mini.
The other factor is that they're going to leverage iTunes as much as possible with the flash player, so such a device could actually deliver a satisfying user experience. It's going to not only be different from the current iPods, but different from the other flash players as well.
Just another mockup (http://www.mackompass.de/) at mackompass.de
BenRoethig
2004-12-10, 14:44
Predictions on flash ipod.
1. Name will be either ipod micro or express
2. Will be similar in design and function to sandisk's Digital audio player. Possibly even a variant of the sandisk. At $89 for the 256mb version, the price is right.
http://www.sandisk.com/download/photos/retail/dmp-red.jpg
BarracksSi
2004-12-10, 17:40
Just another mockup (http://www.mackompass.de/) at mackompass.de
THAT one rocks. I like it.
... It's going to not only be different from the current iPods, but different from the other flash players as well.
Apart from hard drive capacity and size, the mini really isn't any different from the larger iPods. The interface is the same, which is still the best interface yet for a digital audio player. The best way for Apple to set its flash player apart from every other one on the market is to somehow implement the current iPod control interface. Sure, it's only a few hundred megabytes, but the click wheel, which Apple's got a patent on, will make it the flash player that's easiest to use.
I do agree, though, that it can be done with a single-line display and still be better than almost anything else out there. If they can do something like the current iPods, though, it would be even better.
psmith2.0
2004-12-10, 23:04
I truly have to believe that the navigation (both the hardware/wheel component, as well as the interface/software portion) are what truly set the iPod apart. With that in mind, I can't see any new iPod variation deviating from that...I just can't.
I think any differences would simply be in areas like materials used, the size/weight, actual design and look, storage capacity (and medium), colors, marketing targets, places sold, etc. Stuff like that.
But the wheel and screen STAY!!!
Every alternative I've seen/heard suggested, frankly, kinda lacks...and simply isn't very "Apple".
That navigation - the wheel, the menu structure, the simplicity of it all, etc. is something all these other companies would give their collective left nuts for. I just don't see Apple throwing that out the window, and heading down some brand new, uncharted path that somehow sets this new iPod apart from all the others.
Makes no sense at all.
Just my 2¢.
Messiahtosh
2004-12-11, 02:26
Agreed Paul.
BenRoethig
2004-12-11, 13:23
This is one time where innovation needs to take a backseat. The ipod and ipod mini can hold entire music collections. This will be able to hold around six cds. To keep the wheel and interface, it has to be about the size of the mini. They do that and they've just sized and priced themselves out of the market segment which would defeat the purpose of a flash based ipod in the first place. The purpose of a flash based ipod to is to secure the user base in order to keep other music stores like Napster from taking over from the bottom up. We don't need something fancy, just something that will play music.
applenut
2004-12-11, 15:22
This is one time where innovation needs to take a backseat. The ipod and ipod mini can hold entire music collections. This will be able to hold around six cds. To keep the wheel and interface, it has to be about the size of the mini. They do that and they've just sized and priced themselves out of the market segment which would defeat the purpose of a flash based ipod in the first place. The purpose of a flash based ipod to is to secure the user base in order to keep other music stores like Napster from taking over from the bottom up. We don't need something fancy, just something that will play music.
you apparently have no understanding whatsoever of the iPod and Apple's music strategy. To think that Napster is going to take over from the bottom up is incredibily stupid.
Again, If Apple does release a cheaper device it will be 1 or 2GB for 149 in a mini case
Speculation around a one- (or two-) line display makes sense. The iPod itself doesn't need a screen if the remote has one, right?
flash iPod = $99
iPod remote w/ display = $50-70 upsell
Simple math.
For those that opt against a remote - whether for reasons of price or the convenience of 'one less thing' to carry - operation is limited to, what, next/previous song only? Perhaps Apple will introduce some clever audio tones that facilitate navigation, 'auditorially' speeding back & forth through the list.
I really liked madmaxmedia's excellent post about a 'fresh shuffle' feature. That's something I'd like to see on every iPod!
Is it really so hard to follow the guidelines here, folks?
1) You can't tell a member to shut the fuck up and not expect us to consider banning you for a few days, especially if you've got a mile long track record of previous offenses.
2) If you have a problem with a member, notify an admin or report the post, which WAS done I might add. However, that is all that you need to do. As was said, don't take the thread off topic for that.
Can't we just discuss the topic without being jerks about it? It's not too much to ask.
My sincere apologies for my role in that mess.
On topic...
Apple rarely deviates from a "ready to use" product but I hope that they offer a model that does not include a flash card. Lots of people already own flash cards and this could take 10%+ out of the purchase price even for a 256MB card. I'm sure that Apple would see a big profit potential for flash cards (like RAM) but many people would rather use their own card or pick out one that suits their needs for digital photography or other uses.
That makes sense.
Ideally, though, I'd like to see a player with, say, 256 MB built in, and a CF slot for further expansion.
Keep the entry cheap, but allow it to expand (though not to even iPod mini levels).
It seems unlikely Apple will introduce an iPod with removable/upgradable storage any time soon - fixed capacities drives their upsell strategy (20/40/60GB = good/better/best).
Furthermore, an exposed memory slot - especially the size of CF - would dramtically limit their design options. I imagine one of the touted features of a solid-state iPod will be its durability: no fragile, moving parts, especially sans screen (if that turns out to be the case).
Just another mockup (http://www.mackompass.de/) at mackompass.de
Awesome mockup. Everyone click now.
With me? OK...I think that if we see an "iPod flash" it'll be like that except A) Not rounded off at the bottom, B) thicker and C) probably a teensy bit bigger. It'd keep the clickwheel and nice screen, and it'd be substantially smaller then the iPod mini. Of course, as far as pricing goes it'd probably be $149, thus killing off my hopes for a iPm price drop.
This is different from all the other talk of a screenless (or one-line) iPod flash, but personally, I hope Apple doesn't try to make a $99 player that has nothing to do with the iPod except the name. Yes, I'd love it if they could hit the magic double-digit pricetag with the concept above but I don't want them to downmarket too much. Not only because going too cheap is the surest way to make a product stop being "hip" but because, at a certain point, an iPod just stops being an iPod.
After thinking about it, I'd imagine that Sandisk or Lexar would give Apple 256 MB cards in return for prominent/exclusive placement of high-margin upgrade cards (512MB to 4GB) in stores and on-line.
Potential future lineup?
$99 iPod Flash with 256MB
$199-$249 iPod mini with 4GB or 8BG
$299-$399 iPod Photo with 20GB or 40GB as the entire range moves to color screens
$499-$599 New iPod Photo with 60GB or 80GB and large color screen similar to Epson P-2000. This product is focused on music and digital photography though it also incoporates many of the features that Apple developed for the PDA that was never released
$??? iPhone (please!)
Epson P-2000 info:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006H5H9G/qid=1102984374/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl23/102-0110019-3733769?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846
psmith2.0
2004-12-13, 19:45
If flash-based iPods come out and are truly $99, it will instantly solve and and all gift-giving questions I might have throughout 2005.
:)
I should be so lucky!
My hopeful pricing through 2005:
iPod micro: $99 (again, though, I'd rather pay $149 then get a low-end P.O.S.)
iPod mini: $199
iPod 20GB: $299
iPod 40GB: $399
iPod 60GB: $499
iPod photo 20GB: $399
iPod photo 40GB: $499
iPod photo 60GB: $599
iPod video 20GB: $499
iPod video 40GB: $599
iPod video 60GB: $699
Before anybody scoffs at the idea of a seven hundred dollar iPod, I sorta doubt they'll go that big in GB anyway ($499 is about the going rate now for a 20GB digital video player). Notice I also "fixed" the holes in Apple's line-up with a 60GB normal iPod and a 20GB iPod photo. I know that at the moment Apple doesn't have those models to keep an "easy" $299-$399-$499-$599 price scaling sequence, but really, just look at my pricing system. iPod base price + $100 for iPp (or $200 for the iPv, which would obviously be much different in shape and have a bigger screen). How much simpler could you get? Oh yeah, and in late 2005, when the Generation 5 iPod rolls around, my predictions are it'll be similair to the current model but with a color screen standard, thus killing off the iPod photo and dropping the price $100 on the iPod video models.
Roboman, we're thinking the same thing about the large screen version though: (1) 20GB will not be enough; and (2) a photo viewer is more likely since the Epson P-2000 is actually drawing a lot of interest. I agree that video is inevitable but the content infrastructure is not there at the moment. If Apple goes big into home theater and downloadable content, then this will happen. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
I know 20GB isn't a ton for portable video players but that's what most of the other comparable players offer, and the only way to get the price to a (relatively) reasonable point. Like I said, that's my "hopeful" list - I know Apple won't go make an iPod video until, say, they open an iLife Movie Store (I think the iLife apps will become more tightly integrated by then). I don't think that will happen in January, no. But I'm pretty sure will see an iPod video/movie store eventually (2006?).
The iPod certainly wasn't the first HD music player, either...
BarracksSi
2004-12-17, 01:40
I know 20GB isn't a ton for portable video players but that's what most of the other comparable players offer,...
When I can fit five seasons of Simpsons and my entire Initial D collection on one, PLUS all of my music and other files backed up from my computer, then I'll start paying attention to portable video players.
NosferaDrew
2004-12-17, 18:54
Ya think this lawsuit (http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/17/technology/apple_suit.reut/index.htm) that Apple has initiated is about the rumored flash iPod?
byzantium
2004-12-18, 05:11
Well I was wrong .. the suit isn't about the ipod flash, but the audio breakout box.
there's still going to be an ipod without a screen, just wait
admactanium
2004-12-26, 03:18
while some of these mock ups are quite nice, they have some usability issues. the applele design specifically requires you to repeatedly obscure the screen in order to scroll continuously. i'm not sure i'm sold on a rounded shape or bottom because i think the square corners on the current models give resisntance in your palm to make scrolling easier. great looking mockups though.
The Return of the 'nut
2004-12-26, 12:17
Well I was wrong .. the suit isn't about the ipod flash, but the audio breakout box.
there's still going to be an ipod without a screen, just wait
you don't understand the iPod.
kscherer
2004-12-26, 20:46
you don't understand the iPod.
Would that be an AppleNut?
psmith2.0
2004-12-26, 22:41
How in the hell would there be an iPod with no screen? Makes no sense, along with the fact that Apple's wheel/screen combo is a powerful, easy-to-use (for anyone) navigation system that I just do not see Apple tossing away.
:confused:
I'll eat my hat.
kscherer
2004-12-26, 22:55
How in the hell would there be an iPod with no screen? Makes no sense, along with the fact that Apple's wheel/screen combo is a powerful, easy-to-use (for anyone) navigation system that I just do not see Apple tossing away.
:confused:
I'll eat my hat.
I'll eat the leftovers, P2.
Apple isn't gonna abandon the stuff that makes the iPod great. Ain't gonna happen!
The Return of the 'nut
2004-12-26, 23:46
Would that be an AppleNut?
wow, aren't you frickin observant. have a biscuit!
Apple's advantage is their interface. you people are suggesting they throw that away. sorry, but there is no easy way to interface with something you cant see. i dont care if its less than 50 songs or whatever. people who suggest crap like this are fools and probably would never buy one themselves.
I couldn't agree more with 'nut this time around. The interface is the iPod. What differentiates it from the competition these days? Size? No. Capacity? No. Shape? No. Battery life? Ha! The screen and the wheel? Yes.
Both of my cousins each got a tiny flash MP3/WMA player for Christmas. It's about the size of a good swiss army knife (not those puny, flat keychain ones). They're both in love with them because they've never had any sort of portable player other than a bulky CD player; they also really has no idea what the competition has to offer. These flash players have a one-line screen with some buttons next to it. While the interface is simple and easy to use, it could never be on an iPod.
A one-line screen is suitable only for a handful of songs. You can't see what album you're looking at. You can't see what the next or previous song are. You really can't navigate any sort of list. That's what made the iPod UI so great! You can actually see the music you have at a glance and pick what you want to hear. With these tiny flash players, that's impossible because of the tiny interface and because of the insignificant storage.
That brings me to the next point. The click wheel. Without the screen, why bother with a click wheel at all? It would get in the way and add unnecessary bulk. There's no interface to navigate with the click wheel and volume would be much better served by a simple one-dimensional slider or thumb wheel.
If we see a flash iPod, it's going to have almost exactly the same interface or it's going to have one that is completely different. There can be no more "middle-ground" than what we have with the mini.
psmith2.0
2004-12-27, 09:46
What are the chances that a new flash-based iPod (is "flash" supposed to be upper case?) would just use the body/design of the mini?
Would that be too confusing for folks? Not me.
I mean, we keep assuming we have to go smaller and give up wheels and screens and so forth.
Since the mini is such a nice size and shape (and, obviously, a proven winner in design and popularity), what if that basic design were used, and perhaps made from cheaper plastics and just a simple white color or something? No chrome on the back, as in the full-size iPods.
Keep the iPod minis in their nice aluminum colors (add more, even!), and just have this new iPod (if it even exists) a white plastic version of the mini...still get the scroll wheel, still get the screen...and the white signals to everyone that it is indeed a coveted Apple iPod.
:)
I would be totally okay with a white plastic iPod mini being the basis for a new, cheaper flash-based iPod. In fact, the "flair" can come from different colored wheels? The new white ones have that gray click wheel. What if these flash ones had some choices? Either permanent, as in you buy a white iPod flash with a blue wheel and that's it. OR, the wheels snapped off and Apple shipped, say, 3-5 different colors for folks to choose and play with?
Kinda far-fetched (the multi-changing idea, that is), but a permanent color (replacing the gray on the full size) doesn't strike me as particular offensive or tacky.
Click if you dare (http://homepage.mac.com/pscates/mockups/flash.jpg). :D
Messiahtosh
2004-12-27, 13:10
Gorgeous designs, Paul!
thegelding
2004-12-27, 14:20
nice idea mr scates....
could also be slightly smaller and thinner
maybe even a bit more rounded on the four corners to make it different than the mini and maybe easier on the hands to hold and run with or whatever
g
psmith2.0
2004-12-27, 14:47
Yeah, that's where my complete ignorance on technical/engineering/hardware stuff comes in...I don't know how these flash drives compare, in size, to those hard drives currently used in the iPod and iPod mini. So I have to wing it, or just not even factor it in.
In fact, I'm wholly unqualified to be doing this shit to begin with. :D :p
But, having said all that, I think there IS a point - not too much smaller than the iPod mini - where "small" becomes not a good thing. Seems fragile, inconsequential and chintzy. If the technology of the flash-based drives allows the thing to become a tad thinner, that's certainly cool. And if it can come down a smidge on the height/width, sure. But not too much. That mini is already the size of a business card. You start getting smaller than that and...well, I don't know.
When I hold something in my hands, I like it to have some substance, some heft (get your filthy minds out of the gutter, pervs). The few times I've held and played with the iPod mini, it has struck me as darn near perfect in how it fits just right in my hand. Doesn't feel like I'm going to swallow/crush it, nor does it feel like I'm having to really hold on to it with a strong, wraparound grip.
In fact, I'd love to see the day when the entire iPod line LOOKS like the mini. And the only things that differentiate the lines are color vs. B&W screen and type of storage (hard drive vs. flash). And maybe colors (although knowing Apple, they'd tie colors in with features, screwing you out of getting the exact color you want with the capacity/viewing support you craved...ask anyone who wanted an entry-level iMac DV in Graphite, or a special edition model in Strawberry).
:\
"I'd LIKE to have a green 80GB photo iPod...but they only make those in gold and blue. Green is only used in the 2GB flashPod...".
In regards to that comment about too small is not good. I agree very much so, there is a fine line between useful small and useless small, specifically, I remember when I first held an iPod mini, it was so lightweight, I felt like I wasn't really holding anything at all. naturally, that sensation dissipated as I readjusted my touch, but it was still pretty astonishing, particularly compared to the(relatively) clunky 3g 20GB I was used to.
But there is another layer to the too small argument, verily, shrinking an iPod to unusable lengths is folly, but once it is able to shrink that much, is when integration with other devices becomes more appealing. In that, whereas now you COULD have an all in one pat your back shaving machine that also checks you email and whatever, but it'd be the size of your forearm, through the pursuit of miniaturization, specifically to unusable limits, we acquire svelte multi tools that are actually useful! :lol:
well, that was a nice mock-up paul, save for a few discrepancies with sizing(well, positioning really) but it's a nice idea. I'd actually rather see that as a special edition Mini than the iPod micro.
didn't read the whole thread... but if the flash pod would hold 20 songs or so.. it wouldn't be hard to click through them to get to your song .. just a thought.
didn't read the whole thread... but if the flash pod would hold 20 songs or so.. it wouldn't be hard to click through them to get to your song .. just a thought.
Definitely not, we do it with portable CD players all the time and have for decades. People are committed to the iPod micro being a large capacity micro player, but perhaps apple has something else in mind. Granted, I personally wouldn't care too much for a 32-64MB player, Apple *does* have a knack for making something like that appealing for some reason or another.
psmith2.0
2004-12-27, 15:46
...Apple *does* have a knack for making something like that appealing for some reason or another.
Yes, the legendary RDF (http://homepage.mac.com/pscates/mockups/rdf.jpg). Beautiful, and fearsome. For no mortal man is immune to its grip. :p
Messiahtosh
2004-12-27, 16:40
Lololololol
Yeah, that's where my complete ignorance on technical/engineering/hardware stuff comes in...I don't know how these flash drives compare, in size, to those hard drives currently used in the iPod and iPod mini. So I have to wing it, or just not even factor it in.
The micro-drive in the iPod mini is exactly the same size as a "compact flash" card.
http://gallery.ipodlounge.com/ipod/albums/ipodmini_autopsy/ipodmini_autopsy19.jpg
http://www.steves-digicams.com/images5/sandisk_6-in-1_cards.jpg
from http://gallery.ipodlounge.com/ipod/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=19 and http://www.steves-digicams.com/flash_memory.html
One more reason for a flash iPod to carry on the same form factor.
Well, the big difference from an engineering standpoint is, a much smaller battery will suffice for a Flash device, with no hard drive to spin up.
This leads to two choices:
- a smaller battery, with a smaller form factor (and probably lower cost). This might allow a smaller overall form factor, and would of course make for a better entry-level price point.
- the same battery, leading to huge (pronounced Trump-style, with practically no "h") battery life. That would most likely counter the 20+ hr. battery lives being advertised by the current crop of wanna-be iPod clones.
The micro-drive in the iPod mini is exactly the same size as a "compact flash" card.
One more reason for a flash iPod to carry on the same form factor.
The CF cards are size constrained by interface design, not actual memory silicon footprint. SD cards, while still interface constrained are about 10x smaller by volume, remove the external packaging and the silicon itself is radically smaller yet.
Anyone have an idea (or a good guess) to how much the various components in a given iPod cost?
I imagine it breaks down into hard drive (or flash memory, for the iPod flash) + battery + case + packaging.
Any takers?
Anyone have an idea (or a good guess) to how much the various components in a given iPod cost?
I imagine it breaks down into hard drive (or flash memory, for the iPod flash) + battery + case + packaging.Don't forget the screen and the click/scroll wheel (although you may be including them in "case" they should be itemized as individual components).
And then, of course, there's the earbuds, the AC power supply, the data cable, and the included accessories on the upper models.
Don't forget the screen and the click/scroll wheel (although you may be including them in "case" they should be itemized as individual components).
And then, of course, there's the earbuds, the AC power supply, the data cable, and the included accessories on the upper models.
Fair enough.
- HD / flash memory
- screen
- touch click/scroll-wheel
- battery
- PortalPlayer chip
- case
- earbuds, cables + extra components
- packaging
Any takers? And what can Apple leave out to create a great low-cost but recognizably iPod-like iPod flash?
BenRoethig
2004-12-28, 11:13
Anyone have an idea (or a good guess) to how much the various components in a given iPod cost?
I imagine it breaks down into hard drive (or flash memory, for the iPod flash) + battery + case + packaging.
Any takers?
It'd be interesting to find out. Those Microdrives cost about $225, only $25 less than a iPod mini. Assuming the ratio would be the same (which I don't think it is) for basically bolting a 1gb compact flash card in there, $125-$150 doesn't seem unreasonable with possibly a $99 256mb model at the low end.
DMBand0026
2004-12-28, 19:52
Micro drives cost $225 for you and me. But for Apple, they're buying in volume so they cost quite a bit less AFAIK.
MacRGood4U
2004-12-30, 16:45
A report in the Far East press said that Ausatek (sp?) was charging Apple $65 U.S. to produce the flash iPod. Add to that shipping, warehousing, overhead, packaging and advertising and Apple probably has a product costing them $75 to $80.
psmith2.0
2004-12-30, 16:52
If that $75-80 was in the ballpark, what would Apple sell it for (based on what we might know about their pricing scheme)?
Is $99 too low and out of the question? Would it be more like $129-149?
:confused:
I don't know about these sorts of things...
Messiahtosh
2004-12-30, 18:14
Well, if shoes are any indication, I know how my grandfather prices things. Usually, in clothing retail (specifically shoes) the retailer pays say $30 for a shoe and sells that same shoe for $60.
Apple would probably sell an $80 technology for $150. But since this is Apple, $149. :p
madmaxmedia
2004-12-30, 19:46
If we see a flash iPod, it's going to have almost exactly the same interface or it's going to have one that is completely different. There can be no more "middle-ground" than what we have with the mini.
I still think the Milano cookie model may turn out to be true, but for sure this observation is correct. I think there are 2 approaches Apple could take here-
1. Preserve the display and wheel, save by putting the flash drive in an iPod Mini. It will still be expensive. Advantage is of course the interface, disadvantage is that it will be very poor value compared to the iPod Mini.
One day 4 GB flash will be cheap, but so will a 20 GB HD for the iPod Mini...such a player would extend the iPod line, but I personally don't think it would sell that great.
2. Re-invent the wheel. Jobs said people chuck flash players in the drawer, so Apple looks at flash players from the bottom up and designs something to change the way people perceive and use flash players (just like they did with the original iPod.)
By doing this, it could be much cheaper than option 1. Cheap enough that even iPod owners will want one.
The reason why the iPod was such a success is that they ignored traditional convention. Traditional convention in this case would point towards using an iPod Mini shell.
#1 is easy to imagine, but who knows about #2 (if indeed they can even come up with something that they are satisfied with.)
byzantium
2005-01-10, 11:24
Looks I'm about to be vindicated. An iPod without a screen.
http://www.macitynet.it/english/aA20182/
kscherer
2005-01-10, 13:59
Looks I'm about to be vindicated. An iPod without a screen.
http://www.macitynet.it/english/aA20182/
So, uh, where's the proof? We have a little green sign. Whooppee! :no:
byzantium
2005-01-10, 14:21
you'll get your proof tomorrow
But the thing you linked to is nothing, a pic of a banner (one of many variants I'm sure, random being only one of many slogans) and some dude's word?
Sure, it could happen, no doubt, but you've posted no proof.
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 14:29
But the thing you linked to is nothing, a pic of a banner (one of many variants I'm sure, random being only one of many slogans) and some dude's word?
Sure, it could happen, no doubt, but you've posted no proof.Yup, just an ad for the feature. Creative and Dell would go wild on that. "Life is random, but you're music shouldn't be!"
Come on, it doesnt make sense for an MP3 player.
It'd be like taking a bunch of CDs with you on a trip but not being able to decide in what order to listen to them. I don't want to keep hitting "next" to get to the song I want.
Akumulator
2005-01-10, 14:32
Yeah, that banner could have something to do with iLife rather than the iPod. Life... Life? eh?
byzantium
2005-01-10, 15:19
Did you even read the page at the link?
"We cannot show the images of the new iPod because we were forced to delete them from our cameras, but we can describe it. It is without any screen (that's maybe because the slogan is "Life is random!"), small, with a shape more vertical than the other iPod. The color is white, and it seems like a small remote control that fits confortably in a single hand."
Do you really think those who took the photos have any reason to make it up?
Akumulator
2005-01-10, 15:23
Did you even read the page at the link?
"We cannot show the images of the new iPod because we were forced to delete them from our cameras, but we can describe it. It is without any screen (that's maybe because the slogan is "Life is random!"), small, with a shape more vertical than the other iPod. The color is white, and it seems like a small remote control that fits confortably in a single hand."
Do you really think those who took the photos have any reason to make it up?
Well hmmmm.. let's see. Do I have any reason to doubt? Hmmm... You're right. There's never been any wrong information prior to an expo, no hoaxes either. Everything is always right on. :)
byzantium
2005-01-10, 15:23
I bet even if someone did post proof - an actual photo, you naysayers would be there to say it was faked in photoshop.
I first posted this in November from my own source. It was later posted by macmice by their own source. Now you've got more confirmation.
I guess there's no point in arguing - as we'll see it tomorrow. Believe what you want, I don't really care to be honest. What I do find amusing is how untrusting and cynical you lot are. Unless you get it direct from Apple, I doubt you would believe anything.
byzantium,
If you don't like us, you are free to stop posting in this forum at any time. No one is forcing you to be here.
Akumulator
2005-01-10, 15:30
I bet even if someone did post proof - an actual photo, you naysayers would be there to say it was faked in photoshop.
I first posted this in November from my own source. It was later posted by macmice by their own source. Now you've got more confirmation.
I guess there's no point in arguing - as we'll see it tomorrow. Believe what you want, I don't really care to be honest. What I do find amusing is how untrusting and cynical you lot are. Unless you get it direct from Apple, I doubt you would believe anything.
This isn't even about the iPod is it? It's the need to convince people that you're an "insider". I'm proud of you.
This banner proves nothing and it's stupid to believe anyone who says they had to delete their photos. Yeah, right. But they didn't have to delete the ones of the banner without the iPod on it. :rolleyes:
This banner proves nothing and it's stupid to believe anyone who says they had to delete their photos. Yeah, right. But they didn't have to delete the ones of the banner without the iPod on it.
Awesome point Akumulator.
I guess there's no point in arguing - as we'll see it tomorrow. Believe what you want, I don't really care to be honest. What I do find amusing is how untrusting and cynical you lot are. Unless you get it direct from Apple, I doubt you would believe anything.Calm down already. You can't blame anybody here for being a bit skeptical of a guy with a short post history such as yourself. Yes, you're right, Apple developed a Flash iPod without a screen. They also developed one with a screen. Which one, or both, is introduced tomorrow Steve only knows. Let it go.
mass_transit_prophet
2005-01-10, 15:54
In this age of new media, there is no such thing as an "actual photo."
Personally, I don't trust anything until I can purchase it in the Online Apple Store...
We seem to be getting slightly melodramatic in this forum, as if we were speculating about a presidential election, or the date of the coming of the messiah. Simmer Down Now, Simmer Down...
Some have said it is the click wheel and the interface that make the iPod. Perhaps it is from the perspective of the enthusiast, engineer, or final end user. However, the iPod is now something different...more than a product now, it's a brand. Until Apple presents us all with a preview of the product, we don't know what it will look like, with or without a screen. What we know for certain is that whatever is produced it will have the iPod brand. iPod brand = Apple profits. The issue of the screen is a complex one. Having a screen decreases battery life and increases production cost. If it does have one or doesn't, it will be readily understandable why it was done either way based on choice of form factor.
Currently, the iPod is the archetype of what the digital music player should be. It is our hope that with the release of the iPod Flash Apple will continue to meet their standards of innovation, seemless integration, and, of course, style.
For Keynote, I see Steve, during his "One More Thing" pulling out his wallet and removing the iPod Flash.
If it ends up as a thinner iPod mini (i.e. Pscates2.0's most excellent mockup), I could totally see this Flash player fitting in a wallet (not like <anyone> would put it there...fear of sitting on it and breaking it). Just a thought.
emission
2005-01-10, 15:59
Perhaps they have made some cool display replacement, e.g based on this patent..
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20040156192.PGNR.&OS=dn/20040156192&RS=DN/20040156192?tMoJk
byzantium
2005-01-10, 16:04
This isn't even about the iPod is it? It's the need to convince people that you're an "insider". I'm proud of you.
I'll be perfectly honest, I'm not an insider. Not in the sense as Morpheus or Think Secret. I don't have multiple sources, or do I follow rumors that closely. However, I said I got the information from a very reliable source -- whom I trust completely.
But the fact that you don't believe me, or anybody else, is what I do care about. You seem very willing to shoot down any possibilty without even considering maybe it's true.
Fine, you have seen hoaxes before. I'm putting my word on the line -- if there isn't a iPod without a screen tomorrow, then I'm wrong, and I've no problem admitting it.
What have you done other than be a naysayer?
byzantium
2005-01-10, 16:14
byzantium,
If you don't like us, you are free to stop posting in this forum at any time. No one is forcing you to be here.
Didn't say I didn't like you :) But I must admit that it seems kind of like a contradiction that so many of these posts are about rumors, yet nobody wants to believe them?
Is it disappointment you're afraid of?
I've been using Mac's for 15 years -- I love them too. So shoot me if I want to believe a little of what I hear and read, even if most of it isn't true. I'll take the good with the bad. The occasional rumor does turn out to be true, and it's cool because of the the excitement and the anticipation. Why take that away from others?
alright folks, clean it up in here.
meow meow meow meow
Wow, talk about the cat fight.
byz: A photo does not proof make. You may be 100% right. That does not mean that *ANY* photo of the beast is real.
See the difference? Not that I really care one way or another, but what the hell.
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 17:08
Yes, it's not worth name calling or "believe me or else" statements at this point. Tomorrow and in less than 24 hours we will know all.
With or without a screen, that is the question.
No problem, byzantine, I'll ease up. :)
I just agree with others that the photo doesn't NECESSARILY mean a screen-less iPod flash is coming out tomorrow. If it does, cool, you were right. I still don't see any proof, but that is ok. This IS a speculation forum, so you are perfectly entitled to speculate, but don't say this or that WILL happen when you have supplied no proof (a simple "I THINK this will happen" would do). Please don't call us naysayers, we are just grounded. No proof = no product for many of us here.
Personally, I WOULD be disappointed if the screenless iPod came to pass, as I think the ClickWheel and the PodPlayer interface are what make the iPod unique (not the ONLY things - you won't see any sweeping statements by me such as "The ClickWheel IS the iPod" or anything like that). But who knows? Maybe Apple has some better idea for an interface than what they have previously given us.
Let's sign a peace treaty. I love you. :D
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 18:09
Maybe it will actually have a slider on it to shuffle between modes?
Alphabetical----Shuffle----Satellite Radio----By Album----By Genre
:confused:
'Tosh,
Don't EVEN try to sneak that Satellite Radio under our noses. ;)
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 18:14
'Tosh,
Don't EVEN try to sneak that Satellite Radio under our noses. ;) :p
Crazy things happen before expos!
thequicksilver
2005-01-10, 18:34
I'm about as cynical as you can get about anything. Ever. Full stop. But I believe this is true. Here's my reasoning.
• An Italian Mac site is staking its reputation on this. It appears a relatively established site, and simply making such a grandiose claim up would seem to me to be, frankly, stupid. (I'll admit that more stupid things have happened in the recent past however, cf. iWalk, but I have a gut feeling about this rumour.)
• "Life is Random". Think about the word random. When it comes to music, randomness (as in shuffling between tracks randomly) is generally considered a good thing. There's a logical link between a music player and the word random. Now consider software (in this case iLife, which it was mooted above to be a more logical link for). Is randomness in software a good thing? Does the word 'random' in software terms give off good karma, as Jobs may say? Random behaviour is the complete opposite of what you want with software. iLife is not - I don't believe - something which would vaunt randomness as a positive feature. How could iLife being random be a positive attribute?
• Bang and Olufsen sell a screenless digital music player. We're not talking a Chinese no name company here, but Bang and Olufsen, one of the most widely acclaimed and exclusive consumer electronics companies in the world. If B&O can do it, Apple can too.
• Noticing this just before I clicked 'Submit Reply for this message, it also appears Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0501expo6.html) have confirmed the name as iPod Shuffle.
I've got no insider knowledge here, and absolutely no reputation to lose, but there's my logic.
BarracksSi
2005-01-10, 18:36
Perhaps they have made some cool display replacement, e.g based on this patent..
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20040156192.PGNR.&OS=dn/20040156192&RS=DN/20040156192?tMoJk
To paraphrase:
This patent is worthless without pics!
:lol:
Well, that could be really cool, actually. They'd somehow have to get the filtered light sharp enough to make readable text, but it it could work, it'd be awfully slick. A plain white space that lights up to display text? Sure, I'd dig it.
Not likely, though, but it would be fun.
What time should i look at Apple.com on the East Coast?
Wrong thread, I know.
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 18:49
MacWorld UK is reporting the same things, about it being the micro Pod, utilizing flash, containing NO screen, holding 240 songs.
They say the tagline is, "240 songs, in millions of ways."
I think this thing (if it's styling) will find its market. It won't dominate the flash market though.
The iPod mini will drop to $199 and infiltrate the flash market from there.
You heard it here first.
EDIT: The iPod shuffle's tagline should be:
"One small step for Apple, one giant leap for its competitors."
Akumulator, if you see this, please edit your post on the following page to include a quote of this post, so that people on page 5 don't have to re-read page 4.
Akumulator
2005-01-10, 18:53
so I take it Macworld UK is not affiliated with Macworld? Or what? Seems weird they'd report on rumors if they were.
What time should i look at Apple.com on the East Coast?
Wrong thread, I know.
Probably around 2 pm, if the keynote is 2 hours. ::thinks:: 9 + 2 = 11 shift 3 time zones= 2pm. Yeah, that sounds right :D
BuonRotto
2005-01-10, 19:22
MacWorld (US) and MacWorld UK are completely separate entities.
BuonRotto
2005-01-10, 19:32
You heard it here first.
EDIT: The iPod shuffle's tagline should be:
"One small step for Apple, one giant leap for its competitors."
Well, now I know who OrbitPink is at AI. :D
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 19:34
Well, now I know who OrbitPink is at AI. :DShhhh! :p
I'll just throw in my 2 cents.
A screenless, flash based, mp3 player...
Considering there are already plenty of these out on the market, dirt cheap and quite useable, I would hope Apple releases something a bit more interesting than that.
Messiahtosh
2005-01-10, 19:56
I'll just throw in my 2 cents.
A screenless, flash based, mp3 player...
Considering there are already plenty of these out on the market, dirt cheap and quite useable, I would hope Apple releases something a bit more interesting than that.Do they shuffle the the order of the songs though? :rolleyes: :p
byzantium
2005-01-11, 13:58
Bingo.
From macnn:
"Apple introduces iPod Shuffle..flash based player. Smaller than most packs of game. Weighs the same as 4 quarters (less than 1 ounce). Volume/Up dow. Simple LED to provide feedback. No display. Either shuffle or album-based playback. USB 2 transfer connector under connector at the bottom. 12-hour rechargeable battery. Mac/PC compatible. Ships with a laynard that connects directly to bottom connector for easy carrying."
morningstarrising
2005-01-11, 14:00
Real proof..finally...and 99 bucks to boot.
byzantium
2005-01-11, 14:07
To those who asked for real proof previously, what possible real proof could I have given you? Many of you already said you wouldn't have believed a photo anyway. Not that I got to see it anyway. I was just told about it in detail from a reliable source, and a bit of luck.
Anyway, I'm more pumped about the mac mini which I was having trouble believing :D
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