View Full Version : iWork '05 = goodbye MS Office 2004?
so i was curious on what you monkies thought of the rumor of iWork '05 coming out? Do you think Microsoft will discontinue making MS Office for the Mac because of Apple's built-in (with new machines) office app?
As they did because of Apple's built-in web browser - Safari. [MS no longer develops code/updates for IE for Mac]
Dave Hagan
2004-12-31, 16:57
No, I hope not. Apple needs to be a little strong, and Microsoft much much weaker before Apple can threaten the Office empire.
hey i agree with you. But Big Bill might see this app, and be like
"F@#$ Apple, if they want MS Office on their Macs they will have to buy Virtual PC from me, and MS Office for Windows."
Wouldn't suprise me.
As they did because of Apple's built-in web browser - Safari. [MS no longer develops code/updates for IE for Mac]
Well there is a big difference between a free web browser they use to muscle in on an industry (as is their tactic) and Office, one of the two pillars of their empire. Microsoft is only truly two things, their office suite and their operating system.
Mac IE was running its own render engine (Talisman) which differed from Windows IE (Tangent). Talisman can do some things that trip up Tangent, and vice versa. But Tangent is required because it is so ingrained in the Windows platform. Yet Microsoft has also ceased major development for Windows IE. The abandon both products offering only security updates and other trinkets to their Windows counterpart. Any major development will come in Longhorn.
Long as money is seeping into MS's pockets I can't see them taking away one of their major products from the Mac. Cause see, if they did they might as well leave the platform all together. The rest of their Mac products are dismal compared with their PC counterparts.
Mac OS X is unique in that it offers industry-standard products like Dreamweaver, Photoshop and Office while being a UNIX at heart. I've heard many people using that as a major plus. If Microsoft pulls Office its because they have been planning to for a while, just waiting for a public excuse to leave. Would that rock the boat with Macromedia and Adobe?
Well Adobe has felt the burn, see Final Cut Pro/Express and Primere. What saves both sides is that Primere isn't an industry-standard.
I doubt iWork will be feature comparible to Office, highly doubt it. Is iMovie comparible to Final Cut Express? These Products can live in harmony long as both companies understand them. What MS would lose sales on is all those people that don't need all those features, but they retain others that simple purchase it to "be compatible with others".
hey i agree with you. But Big Bill might see this app, and be like
"F@#$ Apple, if they want MS Office on their Macs they will have to buy Virtual PC from me, and MS Office for Windows."
Wouldn't suprise me.
Haha :lol:
- Office is over-priced as it is.
- VPC runs like a dog with one leg.
If it comes to that, us Mac heads have only two rebuttals:
- Explaining to others you probably don't need Office.
- Just to buy a PC (see "Response to Gamers")
Your betting how many casual people use Office, and don't need to. Marketshare is already lower then low, it would take more then Office leaving.
i have office 98 for when people send me those types... but all my stuff is in appleworks
people will probably have both...
I have been using AppleWorks for years. I honestly told myself that it could do the job that I needed.
Boy was I wrong. I frequently run into problems doing things that I can do at work with MS Office.
When iLife hit the streets, I really hoped that Apple would turn its eye to AppleWorks.
psmith2.0
2004-12-31, 17:54
Wow, what a pretty awesome week for juicy rumors (all it took was thegelding starting a thread about it ;) )
I'm excited about this MWSF more than any other, I believe. Actually seems to be a reasonable mix of practical, "use everyday" stuff.
I love new hardware, but it's truly about the stuff you USE on your Mac - the OS, the software, etc. - that I really appreciate. This iWork thing...can't wait to see what it is. Sounds like Keynote is a part of of it. I'd love to see it somehow be around $99 (bundled free on new stuff, of course).
Shaping up to be a great MWSF, IF most of these rumors and reports actually pan out.
I don't think it will be the down fall of Office yet. If Apple ever gets to 25% - 30% market share maybe it might evolve into an Office killer, but not yet. I'm thinking it's just AppleWorks brought back from the dead and modernized, hopefully from the ground up. Right now TextEdit is all I really need, but I do have OpenOffice in case I need something with a bit more power.
SonOfSylvanus
2004-12-31, 19:25
Wow, what a pretty awesome week for juicy rumors (all it took was thegelding starting a thread about it ;) )
I'm excited about this MWSF more than any other, I believe. Actually seems to be a reasonable mix of practical, "use everyday" stuff.
I love new hardware, but it's truly about the stuff you USE on your Mac - the OS, the software, etc. - that I really appreciate. This iWork thing...can't wait to see what it is. Sounds like Keynote is a part of of it. I'd love to see it somehow be around $99 (bundled free on new stuff, of course).
Shaping up to be a great MWSF, IF most of these rumors and reports actually pan out.
Jeezus
:eek: :eek: :eek:
It's like every rumour that ever existed is meant to come true this MWSF!
I'm almost giddy with excitement (I said almost :o ).
Nick must have some, like, top-level-dude source at Apple who just feeds him this stuff... if said dude ever got found out, TS would fold.
Here's to seeing what 11/01/05 brings!
BuonRotto
2004-12-31, 21:19
Yeah, Nick de Plume's repute (he's been good in the past) is on the line at this point, or perhaps it's fair to say, assuming he does have sources he trusts, that his sources are on the line. Who knows, maybe this will smoke out his sources.
Anyway, if you want to be optimistic about this one, look at it this way. First, MS depends on two main sources of revenue to feed all their other projects: Windows and Office in the enterprise market. If Office for Mac is that important to MS (and I've heard it is, and that's why they've gotten their panties in a bunch when it hasn't sold well on OS X and were willing to offer the so-called education versions at retail), then Apple could call them out on this, call their bluff about pulling Office and force MS to continue their progress on Office for Mac and compatibility with the Windows' Office. It would be a risk, for sure, but is MS going to take their bat and ball and go home at the first sign of competition?
I'm sure Apple will not have some important Office features in this version anyway. Of course, they will probably also make some fairly important improvements to how their suite works: graphics, some UI differences, some sharing and networking stuff, etc. Obviously, it will probably only have rudimentary Office translation ability too. In all, it won't be an Office killer, but they've probably waited this long to make a really good first pass.
although i started this argument, i would like to add:
MS always develops Office products for Mac first. As you old timers can confirm, Word was originally designed for the only GUI OS - MacOS. They have continued to lead with the Mac even today. Hence Office 2004 Mac, which is ahead of its counterpart Office 2003 Windows. :eek:
hey i agree with you. But Big Bill might see this app, and be like
"F@#$ Apple, if they want MS Office on their Macs they will have to buy Virtual PC from me, and MS Office for Windows."
Wouldn't suprise me.
Can you blame Apple though? Microsoft Office 2003 on the PC is a significantly better product than Office 2004 for the Mac. Everyone knows this, including Apple.
Microsoft has been developing crap applications for the Mac platform for far too long and Apple needs to put a stop to it.
If Microsoft really cared about Mac Office, where is the Access port already? What about Visio/FrontPage/Publisher/Project/etc.? Where is simpler apps such as Money?
those are some good points Dave. Out of all MS apps I love MS Money. I really wish Apple would develop a financial program. I hate Quicken 2004!! It is so un-intuative.
BuonRotto
2004-12-31, 23:37
"financial program" and "intuitive" rarely if ever belong in the same sentence. ;)
iWork would be a success if it simply gave MS a kick in the butt. Even if it eventually fell into the purgatory that is Appleworks now, it would have to at least do this.
drewprops
2005-01-01, 01:41
I went in to the Apple Store this week, to play with Keynote on the off chance I could show some new tricks to one of my steady clients who normally rely on PowerPoint. I was intrigued at some of the features, but ultimately disappointed.
One of the store employees came over and ran through some of the NEW Office stuff with me and I have to say that I was impressed. I just read tonight that the Mac version of PowerPoint may in fact be in parity with the XP version.
Apple's business software just isn't as fully featured as the M$ stuff...
yeyeogun
2005-01-01, 02:15
The purpose of this chart is to clarify the truth, rumors, and speculation. Hopefully someone will help in this organization.
Consumer Pro-Consumer Professional
Music editing: GarageBand Logic Express Logic Pro
Video editing: iMovie Final Cut Express Final Cut Pro HD
Photo editing: iPhoto Image Express Image Pro
DVD creation: iDVD DVD Studio Express DVD Studio Pro
Video graphics: Motion (v.2) Express Motion Pro
Video compositing: Shake Express Shake Pro
Presentation: AppleWorks Keynote (Listed as an Application)
Word Processing: AppleWorks Pages (known as Document)
Spreadsheet: AppleWorks
Database: AppleWorks FileMaker Developer (Listed as an Application) FileMaker Pro (Not listed under Apple Applications)
FileMaker Server (Listed as an Application) FileMaker Server Advanced (Not listed under Apple Applications)
FileMaker Mobile (Not listed under Apple Applications)
Drawing: AppleWorks
Painting: AppleWorks
Music Organization: iTunes
Video Organization:
Photo Organization: iPhoto
Text Organization:
Add on FileMaker:
Work Requests
Tasks
Recruiter
Meetings
Donations
Add on Sound Packs:
Jam Pack 1 Instruments, Loops, and Effects
Jam Pack 2 Remix Tools
Jam Pack 3 Rhythm Section
Jam Pack 4 Symphony Orchestra code-named Hermann
Add on Keynote Packs: ???
Blue is in the wrong category Orange is the corrected category Red is has never been produced
This List does not include those applications being upgraded at MacWorld such as iLife '05 code-named Sphere, iDVD 5 code-named Maui, iMovie 5 code-named Storm, iPhoto 5 code-named Spellbound, and iTunes 4.7.1 update. Also the rumored hardware products such as the FireWire breakout box code-named Asteroid, the "headless" iMac code-named Q88, the iPhone, and the iPod Flash.
Question 1:
Is the iWork application code-named Sugar the replacement of AppleWorks or a new suite that is like the Pro or Pro Consumer Additions to Apple's line-up?
Question 2:
If the software code-named Sugar includes Keynote 2 as well as a new application Pages then what is Crossbow and Slingshot the two Keynote-related products in development?
Question 3:
Why is iPhoto being considered a Photo Editing Application isn't it a Photo Organization Application? To classify it as a PE Application is one step closer to a Graphics Application a.k.a. Photoshop.
yoda_four
2005-01-01, 06:13
What was the point of that? The colours don't even show up. It's one of the worst lineup lists I have ever seen. Very confusing and poorly organized/incomplete.
1. iWork, to my understanding as of now, is simply going to be a replacement for AppleWorks. Apple needed to replace that old suite anyways, and now they can truly boast that all new Macs are ready right out of the box (especially boasted if the xMac rumour is true). The whole iWork suite, whatever it ends up including, are going to be advertised towards consumers; NOT professionals. It is only the suite's first iteration, and if pros need more, Office:mac 2004 is avaiable at any time.
2. I'm sure TS is working right now to figure out exactly what Crossbow and/or Slingshot are. Considering they got on top of the 'Sugar' rumour quite quickly, I would assume we'll be reading another news item in the next few days.
(I hope C/S end up being the Spreadsheet and Data Manager, parts of iWork. Why? 1) A suite compromised of 2 apps is rather sad and incomplete. 2) I'd much rather have new apps then Keynote theme packs, as good as they may be -------- Another thing: "Pages" is THE most lame name for an app, Apple app nontheless. Document would've been much better, even though is has those recognition probs. But, I'm sure if this pans out, they'll come up with something better.)
BTW, I know that first list was made by me in another thread and it was simply a wish list for a complete Consumer/Prosumer/Professional lineup from Apple. Why can't iPhoto be considered both an editing and organization tool, especially since in true fact it is? In no way was it being called Photoshop. If you'd actually read the list properly, iPhoto's editing functions are for consumers, a program similar to Adobe's Photoshop Elements (for which Apple's version I named Image Express) for the Prosumers, and a Photoshop CS like app (Image Pro).
CONFIRMED?
US Trademark for iWork from Apple, filed in August 2004.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=e5id7n.5.1
The serial number is: 78462838. The search session expires overtime :\
CONFIRMED?
US Trademark for iWork from Apple, filed in August 2004.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=e5id7n.5.1
It appears they haven't registered Pages, however (unless I don't understand their crappy search system…)
BTW: what's with posting the same information in two threads at once?
It appears they haven't registered Pages, however (unless I don't understand their crappy search system…)
BTW: what's with posting the same information in two threads at once?
Because it is relevant to both threads?
it was a deal between apple and microsoft to bring office to mac...bill made a profit from it...from all macusers buying it... in return apple gained better reputation als 'compatible' and maybe, compatibility between iwork and office?
so nobody is going to be pissed off if apple released it's own decent 'office' aka iwork'05...that's my opinion
yeyeogun
2005-01-01, 09:44
Sorry, for some reason colors did not show up. The charts purpose is to clarify everything we are speaking of. As for iPhoto, I believe it is better classified as an Organizational Software until Apple develops a partner program. 2 years ago I read at Apple Insider that Apple was developing a Pro Graphics program. I don't right now recall the name. The said it complimented iPhoto and filled Apple's Pro Series Gap for use with Final Cut and DVD Studio Pro.
thequicksilver
2005-01-01, 10:26
I don't like the idea of taking on Microsoft as regards Office at this juncture. Fact is, Office is pretty much the app everyone considers the gold standard in productivity. That's always the first question I'm asked when I suggest someone get a Mac - but what about Microsoft Office? Saying it exists for the Mac too is often the clincher - not saying 'there's a cool solution from Apple which works with it and should be mostly compatible'. That's not enough.
(That said, I'm totally underwhelmed with Office 2004 on the occasions I've used it. I use Office X on my iBook G4 (previous gen), and have used 2004 on the next gen of iBook that a friend has. Office X is far snappier and Word particularly is awfully slow on his newer iBook.)
It's bad enough trying to persuade someone away from Windows to the Mac even *with* Microsoft Office available. Without, frankly I don't see any mass adoption on the scale that's been predicted by many.
It seems to me that it matters very little whether or not this lives up to the gold standard of MS Office.
The standard isn't as golden as one might think.
It's useful, its featureset is impressive, but it could quite easily be improved upon.
As long as this new suite saves and opens in all of the requisite Office extensions will full format preservation it'll cover 99% of users.
Sure, many switchers may not realize that at first, but by their next generation purchase they'll almost certainly figure it out.
And as for all those who're already on the mac platform, I'm sure they'll be itching to try it out.
This isn't going to slay Office by any means, but its finally going to sever the umbilical cord between a Mac as the ultimate user-friendly machine, and microsoft Office, the software package that actually makes a mac useable.
Finally. (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?postid=148871#post148871)
Spot on, iR.
I think if Apple is smart, they'll play a little game whereby they don't attempt to make iWork a replacement for Office 2004, but rather something targeted for the prosumer space.
They should just leave out two or three key features for every app (say Track Changing and Macros for the WP), that are more or less the domain of corporate / small business users. IOW, don't interfere with MS' key marketing points for its office suite, but meanwhile follow the "all most people need amounts to 60% of Office's functionality anyway" rule and make good on it.
If iWork ends up being fast, stable and containing most of the *core* functionality of Office, without many of the bells and whistles, and of course file format compatibility... Apple will do great and MS will keep its core Office user base.
A lot of people will still use Office for Entourage and Excel alone, because I don't think Apple is going to compete in either of those spaces, given the depth of functionality those apps have.
BenRoethig
2005-01-01, 13:39
I think if Apple is smart, they'll play a little game whereby they don't attempt to make iWork a replacement for Office 2004, but rather something targeted for the prosumer space.
They should just leave out two or three key features for every app (say Track Changing and Macros for the WP), that are more or less the domain of corporate / small business users. IOW, don't interfere with MS' key marketing points for its office suite, but meanwhile follow the "all most people need amounts to 60% of Office's functionality anyway" rule and make good on it.
If iWork ends up being fast, stable and containing most of the *core* functionality of Office, without many of the bells and whistles, and of course file format compatibility... Apple will do great and MS will keep its core Office user base.
A lot of people will still use Office for Entourage and Excel alone, because I don't think Apple is going to compete in either of those spaces, given the depth of functionality those apps have.
Personally, as long as iWork '05 is better than MS Works 8, I'm happy. When it comes to office suites, unless Apple is able to make something innovative that writes .doc, .xls, and .ppt files as standard, the Mac version of office will reign supreme. Apple having their own suite with its own file extentions would hurt a lot more than it would help.
Sorry, I didn't phrase that in the right order. I meant that Apple *should* make the files compatible with office as much as is practical. If they don't it will be pretty useless as a productivity suite. And of course, expect MS to play all sorts of little games with their interim suite updates, whereby each of the file format DTDs change just a little bit to deal with some enhancement or "fix", thus breaking some aspect of Apple's compatibility with the format.
Oh, did you forget? MS has a *patent* on parsers for the Office XML DTDs. No, I'm not kidding.
It is infringement to produce a 100% compatible file format reader/writer.
Nice, eh? Data lock-in wasn't enough, they had to make it illegal for anyone else to use it.
onlyafterdark
2005-01-01, 15:28
And people bitch about AAC. M$ sure knows how to run a business. :no:
Messiahtosh
2005-01-01, 15:32
How do Keynote exports work in Powerpoint then?
BuonRotto
2005-01-01, 15:57
Office '03 still supports older Office formats, but obviously as time goes on ,these file formats will diverge further and older ones will eventually be dropped. Someone at Ars (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=814007258631&p=2) pointed this out to me:
royalty-free licenses for Office '03 .xml formats (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/nov03/11-17XMLRefSchemaEMEAPR.asp)
Call me suspicious though. As with Apple, there's more to this than mere benevolence on the part of Microsoft. Of course, maybe it's just to get the EU off its back though apparently it didn't work. If this is a license only for the '03 format, then maybe the Office '05 format will be different and this one is obsolete. If Apple uses such a license, then IMO it reduces the likelihood that MS would continue to develop Office for Mac. "You want to be able to import and export Office formats perfectly? Fine. You won't be needing us then I guess?" ;)
Oh, did you forget? MS has a *patent* on parsers for the Office XML DTDs. No, I'm not kidding.
It is infringement to produce a 100% compatible file format reader/writer.
Nice, eh? Data lock-in wasn't enough, they had to make it illegal for anyone else to use it.
Apple should do it anyway, and challenge MS to sue them. I am not sure that MS would risk it, given the potential counter challenge of anti-competitive conduct. The fact is that the MS format (Word at least) has become a standard and anyone should be allowed to develop software around it.
Does is bother anyone that there is an existing application (time/billing/invoice manager) called iWork that you can to to the Apple Store site (for example) and buy right now?
www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/business_finance/iwork.html
It at least brings the title of the application in question, doesn't it?
Whatever you do, its going to be a crap-shot for compatibility with MS Doc. With RTF you have a human-readable (stretching it) format whereas MS Doc is binary and can be changed whenever. Hasn't MS done this in the past creating compatibility problems between Windows versions of Office?
As with Keynote, iWork should save their native format in XML while it offers the option for other formats like HTML and MS Doc. No Excel equivelent is fine I have OpenOffice.org at home and MS Office at work.
Is MWSF here yet!? If all this new software comes installed on the low-priced iMac I may just pick one up :D
Oh, did you forget? MS has a *patent* on parsers for the Office XML DTDs. No, I'm not kidding.
It is infringement to produce a 100% compatible file format reader/writer.
Nice, eh? Data lock-in wasn't enough, they had to make it illegal for anyone else to use it.
Doesn't Apple have a cross patent license agreement with MS?
I feel dubious about the possibility of Microsoft walking away from the Mac platform. I've heard that MS-Word actually has a higher consumer market penetration in the Mac market then it does in the PC market. Also, the MS Mac BU is consistently profitable AFAIK. MS is not a charity, they make Mac applications because they make money doing it. An updated Appleworks type application is definitely not going to kill the market for MS-Word, unless Apple has put a tremendous effort into developing "Pages", or whatever it's called.
hyperb0le
2005-01-01, 22:03
Regardless of how great iWorks is, most corporations will stick with Microsoft Office. iWorks will certainly be marketed towards home users as an inexpensive tool to type reports, make presentations for school, etc. Most of Microsoft's revenue comes from corporations (I assume), so I doubt this consumer suite would cause them to pull out of the platform.
Also, the MS Mac BU is consistently profitable AFAIK. MS is not a charity, they make Mac applications because they make money doing it.
Too bad IE and WMP are so horrible. I'd even pay a small fee, at this point, of WMP actually (gasp) played WMP 9 videos. Now its hit or miss.
Maybe you have the right idea Ion... maybe Apple should make all their suite DTDs XML based. Would fit in with the their standards-friendly approach to software in general, and down the line it may pay dividends if MS ever has the balls to do something like that. Or if other developers join the fray and make their stuff XML-friendly.
BuonRotto
2005-01-02, 13:47
I thought this post at MacNN made an interesting insight about what Pages or iWork or whatever you call it might be like:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2347457#post2347171
Since Keynote has more than a passing resemblance to the Lighthouse Design app Concurrence, this new rumored app might be closely related to OpenWrite by them too. Problem is, of course, is that Sun owns the rights to those apps, so maybe it's just coincidence (or logical look and feel). Still, people described OpenWrite as a cross between Word and Framemaker. I imagine considering how much people miss Framemaker that if this thing has even a few major advantages of that app, then it will attract its fair share of users.
Messiahtosh
2005-01-02, 14:02
If Apple can actually afford to be...not really anti-MS but at least incredibly smug towards Microsoft, now is a great time for Apple to turn its chin up.
Releasing these new apps, putting them all on a machine that costs $499...that will surely blow away anything on the market.
What I'm saying is, Apple can run a mud-slinging sort of ad campaign if they want to. People will listen to the talk about virus-free computing and stability. Now, like never before.
I thought this post at MacNN made an interesting insight about what Pages or iWork or whatever you call it might be like:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2347457#post2347171
Since Keynote has more than a passing resemblance to the Lighthouse Design app Concurrence, this new rumored app might be closely related to OpenWrite by them too. Problem is, of course, is that Sun owns the rights to those apps, so maybe it's just coincidence (or logical look and feel). Still, people described OpenWrite as a cross between Word and Framemaker. I imagine considering how much people miss Framemaker that if this thing has even a few major advantages of that app, then it will attract its fair share of users.
That screenshot of Openwrite - the basic document looks a lot like Textedit. I guess it's just a question of just how many features Apple would put into whatever they call their document app... it'd just be Textedit on steroids.
iWork and Office appear to fit two completely different market segments, so they can likely coexist without too many problems. Office would still be available for the people who have to deal with complex Office docs on a daily basis, whether it be through work or elsewhere.
I'll be surprised if this thing gets released at <$99, given that Keynote was $99 by itself. If it has document, spreadsheet, and presentation capability... I'll guess $149, $79 edu. Surprises are always welcome.
BuonRotto
2005-01-02, 15:13
That screenshot of Openwrite - the basic document looks a lot like Textedit. I guess it's just a question of just how many features Apple would put into whatever they call their document app... it'd just be Textedit on steroids.
NeXTstep and OpenStep used standard OO text tools just like OS X does which is why it looks like TextEdit in places. Any developer can use the TextEdit's toolbars and other text features, and OpenWrite apparently used the OpenStep equivalent.
Maybe you have the right idea Ion... maybe Apple should make all their suite DTDs XML based. Would fit in with the their standards-friendly approach to software in general, and down the line it may pay dividends if MS ever has the balls to do something like that. Or if other developers join the fray and make their stuff XML-friendly.
Thats what I thought. Apple seems very keen on XML. Don't need to follow OpenOffice.org's XML format either as I've heard a few people balk at its inherent complexity but offering it as an additional option couldn't hurt.
Export a word document as Rich Text (RTF), Markup (XHTML + CSS), Adobe PDF, OpenOffice.org Writer (SXW) or MS Word. All with options on export. :)
A package like this that comes with every new Mac will make the decision to buy one a lot easier. As an XP user myself, I was worried about something that was compatable with some of the more common office documents. I know there are open source alternatives, but something more "official", even if it isn't 100% feature compliant or as good will certainly do the job and tide me over before I can save up a few paychecks and get a loan to purchase MS Office. (Sarcasm) The cost of Office WITH a new machine really puts the price point over the edge for me, but with something to hold me over, this is perfect. Just my 2 cents.
Philth,
I completely agree. I am still saving up for my first Mac (whatever it will be - who knows at this point with all the rumours floating around). When I do my fantasy configs at Apple's site, I have to add the $399 Office Standard product in my cart. Not fun. This would REALLY help!
As noted in Mac Arch on ArsTechnica, IGG Software (http://www.iggsoftware.com) used to have a time billing app called 'iWork'. Today, they re-issued the program under the name "iBiz"
Messiahtosh
2005-01-03, 17:11
As noted in Mac Arch on ArsTechnica, IGG Software (http://www.iggsoftware.com) used to have a time billing app called 'iWork'. Today, they re-issued the program under the name "iBiz"Apple works in mysterious and intriguing ways. Jobs must have made a persuasive phone call. ;)
psmith2.0
2005-01-03, 17:26
I can hear it now...
"Listen, you fucks. I've not been feeling well lately and I don't really feel like getting into a big thing over this. Now there are two ways we can go about this...I win either way. You can give it up like the stand-up guys you are, OR, so help me God, I will make it my mission to crush you. You DO know who you're talking to, right? Heard of the iPod? Heard of Nemo, that little fish? Damn right you have...do I have to paint you a little picture? So what's it gonna be, boys?".
:D
That good ol' Steve charm at work.
thegelding
2005-01-03, 17:30
so that helps seal iWork coming from apple...
as mentioned by thinksecret...
thinksecret also mentioned the iMac mini for 499 (could be edu price with a consumer price of 549 or 599)
now the 99 cent question is....did thinksecret ever mention the iPod flash or iPod micro??
if not, perhaps that is not in the works from apple, or at least not yet
g
Messiahtosh
2005-01-03, 17:33
It probably was an even shorter call...
"Hi, I'm Steve Jobs. We want to use the name iWork, so change your product's name.You dig?"
unixguru
2005-01-03, 17:38
although i started this argument, i would like to add:
MS always develops Office products for Mac first. As you old timers can confirm, Word was originally designed for the only GUI OS - MacOS. They have continued to lead with the Mac even today. Hence Office 2004 Mac, which is ahead of its counterpart Office 2003 Windows. :eek:
This is COMPLETELY false. It may have been that way at one time, but since Word 6, the Mac product has been based on WinWord source code. This is very evident from many pieces of information out there.
Do you really think MacBU, with 150 people, could "lead" product development? There's no way.
yeah, thinksecret mentioned the flashpod about a month ago
I can hear it now...
"Listen, you fucks. I've not been feeling well lately and I don't really feel like getting into a big thing over this. Now there are two ways we can go about this...I win either way. You can give it up like the stand-up guys you are, OR, so help me God, I will make it my mission to crush you. You DO know who you're talking to, right? Heard of the iPod? Heard of Nemo, that little fish? Damn right you have...do I have to paint you a little picture? So what's it gonna be, boys?".
:D
That good ol' Steve charm at work.
Or something like this......
"Hi this is Steve Jobs,"
[silence]
[Jobs] ...."um no, you aren't the 500 millionth itunes downloader"
[gulping for air sounds on other end]
[Jobs] "It appears that you are using our name iWork on one of your products" ...
[small voice] "uh Mr. Jobs um... we thought of that name"....
[Jobs] "No you didn't, I did. I always come up with the snappy names"
[Jobs] "Now you are gonna stop using it right?"
[small voice] "...um we kind of like it"
[Jobs] "Yea, glad you do" "...hold on a second"
[Jobs voice with hand over microphone] "..." Yea Phil we have a little 'situation' here"
[Phill Shiller's voice] Shall I send Ive and the boys to do a little 'Industrial design' on them?"
[small voice] "Uh Mr. Jobs.. how about iBiz?"
[Jobs] "Great, use that one that I just thought of. You can have it for a small licensing fee"
[small voice] " Uh.. Mr. Jobs, I thought of that just now"
[Jobs] "No you didn't. I did last year. You just thought you did... anyway....
Thanks for calling we really are not interested in buying your company"
<click>
[small voice] "What the fuck just happened?"
[other small voice] "i think Jobs just gave us the iBiz"
[small voice] "yea, Royally"
:D
yeyeogun
2005-01-03, 19:04
Will the real iWorks please stand up! It seems the original company IGG has changed the iWorks name to iBiz. check this out:
http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibiz/
BuonRotto
2005-01-03, 20:43
Alas, it appears that money and names swapped hands (http://www.macminute.com/2005/01/03/iwork/) in order for this to happen. Move along folks, nothing sordid to gawk at here.
PS: Why do people like to argue about the names of these apps and devices so much? They could name it Fartlek von Poopy Man for all I care so long as it's a nice thing. :p
nomorewindows
2005-01-03, 21:40
I vote for Fartlek von Poopy Man. In the meantime, I'll sit on my free 30 day trial of Office and wait for MWSF. Don't you just LOVE the rumor mill?!?!? I've only changed my mind a dozen times about what to do for word processing, etc, on my brand new sexy PowerBook G4, 15 inch titanium. Trimspa, baby! :devil:
SonOfSylvanus
2005-01-03, 22:05
Or something like this......
Heh Heh
:cool:
Frank777
2005-01-04, 00:15
I'll bet a gazillion AppleNova credits that iBiz gets a cute plug during the Keynote.
Though exciting and snappy, Fartlek von Poopy Man might not sell marketing wise as a very simple sounding iWork.
Perhaps the name:
"Fartlek von Poopy Man Suite For OS X " is for the enterprise market?
or not...
:err:
Whatever Apple releases, it won't make a dent in Microsoft's money chest since the Mac part of the Office userbase is so small. At most they'll stop making Office for Mac, but it'll take a lot of time for things to develop to that point... and by then, we might even see the mythical Aqua port of OpenOffice.org.
OO.o for Windows is a very good app and I can easily see it toppling Office, from within Windows - what does Microsoft have to stop that?
Even the compatibility might be a smaller problem than currently thought. Not all the world shares US' incredibly prohibitive attitude towards software compatibility. A separate plugin could be made for OO.o that opens the new Office documents perfectly, and would be legal to use in many parts of the world. Even if US corporations couldn't use it, consumers definitely would. Extensibility can defeat poor law and poor business models.
CyberGourmet
2005-01-09, 03:54
abiword works fine for me... as does Gimp. X11 is a neato extra I found out about almost by mistake. Word is still nicer as is Photoshop but in a pinch...
yoda_four
2005-01-09, 21:44
MACSHRINE
Just a day before Steve is due to unveil many new products at his annual Keynote we have received word of the next iWork tool. Cells is Apples spreadsheet tool to compliment Pages. No other word on any other functions, that missing Keynote 2 app is still bugging us, we'll try and find out what it is. Could Microsoft soon stop making Office for Mac as they did with Explorer as a result of iWork?
I'm dying to know what Crossbow and Slingshot are!!!!! Might TS have one last report before the keynote?
Apple have now registered "Pages" as a trademark.
I'm excited about iWork as anyone, but, folks, it's just not going to a full replacement to MS Office. MS Office is huge.
It'll be interesting, though, watching Jobs do a little complex dance both praising and poking a sharp stick at MS Office, in the same breath. ;)
I'm excited about iWork as anyone, but, folks, it's just not going to a full replacement to MS Office. MS Office is huge.
It'll be interesting, though, watching Jobs do a little complex dance both praising and poking a sharp stick at MS Office, in the same breath. ;)
I agree - In the same way that you couldn't just build a Photoshop replacement, the same applies to Office. Both products are so big now, and have so many features that you could never bring out a version 1.0 replacement that offers all the functions. You'd be able to build the basics (which is all some people would need after all), but not like-for-like function replacement.
Baron Munchausen
2005-01-10, 13:57
If I were to guess on crossbow it would be an Excel or Access replacement. Slingshot for Project.
I think Project and Access are the 'soft underbelly' of Office on the PC, let alone the Mac!
As posted before, Access is a so-so gui on a bad slow DB right now. Many open source DBs could be rock solid with an Apple GUI a-top.
My $0.02
Frank777
2005-01-10, 14:34
Wh would Apple need an Open Source database when they own Filemaker?
intlplby
2005-01-10, 15:23
i think most people on a mac looking for database capabilities rely on Filemaker 7
no need to compete there.......
it would need a rock solid Project and Excel replacement
Wh would Apple need an Open Source database when they own Filemaker?
Particularly when you can tie Filemaker to difference DB engines using ODBC (is that working on OS X yet, btw?)
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