View Full Version : Buying a TV in 2008, need advice
Only two hard and fast metrics.
1.) TV must fit into a shelf system no wider than 41 3/8" (this works out to 42" diagnals, perhaps a 46" with an impossibly thin Bezel would work, but I don't know if such a model exists)
2.) Got to be a flat panel.
We watch a lot of movies, and will probably have a Home theatre PC set up there as well. Plasma and LCD both have their advantages, I'm open to either one.
What's good (for a reasonable, sub $2K) price?
What do you got, what do you like. Picture, reliability, connectivity, etc etc...
About 10 months ago I bought the 32" version of this Sharp Aquos LCD (http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-Aquos-LC42D64U-42-Inch-1080p/dp/B000UN3VT4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1222700230&sr=8-7) (I linked to the 42" version for your purposes). The picture quality is awesome on everything I've plugged into it from DVDs to XBox, etc. It's got plenty of HDMI and Component and a handful of RCA and one VGA/DVI as well. I'd highly recommend anything in this brand line to anyone looking for a TV.
KDL-42V4100 - $1,500 from the factory, $1,000 is the lowest price I've seen in the wild
Dimensions (Approx.) : 40 3/4 x 28 3/8 x 12 1/8 in (1033 x 718 x 307mm) with pedestal; 40 3/4 x 26 3/4 x 4 3/8 in (1033 x 677 x 110mm) without pedestal.
1080/60p
Analog Audio Input(s) (Total) : 6 (5 Rear/1 Side)
Audio Out : 1 (Rear)
Component Video (Y/Pb/Pr ) Input(s) : 2 (Rear)
Composite Video Input(s) : 3 (1 Side/2 Rear)
Digital Audio Output(s) : 1 (Rear) Optical Digital Output
HDMI™ Connection(s) (Total) : 4 (3 Rear/1 Side)
HDMI™ PC Input Format Support : Yes
PC Input Format Support : Yes (see manual for exact formats)
RF Connection Input(s) : 1 (Rear)
S-Video Input(s) : 1 (Rear)
PC In (D-Sub) + Audio In (Stereo Mini) : 1 (Rear)
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665406620
C|Net review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-kdl-42v4100-42/4505-6482_7-33024484.html
In general, I pick out Sony LCD TV's from across a showroom as having the best picture in it's class. C|Net has this TV rated as "good features for the money"
The down side - this TV only has side and rear connectors (no front connectors) so it might not work for your shelf system idea if you need to add/remove connectors often, and only 60 HZ instead of 120 HZ, if that matters to you.
I got my 32" Westinghouse for under $500 after checking SlickDeals.net every day for a couple weeks. I'd suggest doing the same if you want to save some money—there are some great deals that come along once in a while. Granted, the Westinghouse is a low-end brand and it was refurbished, but I managed to get it with no tax and $5 shipping (on top of it already being something like $50-100 under the new street price).
Even if you have a larger budget and don't have to shop for a huge bargain, the people there can recommend a good one and a good place to buy it where you can get a better price, pay less for shipping, or avoid sales tax.
Sony has a Z series with a very thin bezel. It comes in 40" and 46". The 40" fits my shelving easily, but doesn't make the most of it. The 46" is perilously close at 107cm wide, the shelf is 105.2cm. It could actually sit just a bit forward on the shelf because of the way the system is built, the shelves themselves protrude forward from a ladder-like frame, but I'm not sure how it would look, and more importantly, it may be courting disaster to place it this way...
I'm curious about the less known brands. I suspect that many panels are used across a spectrum of TVs from different brands. With some you get better processing, and more features, and you pay more for it, but if you know who uses which type of panel, you can get a good panel from a Westinghouse, or Olevia, Polariod etc... just feed them with a good source component, ie upconverting DVD, blueray, or HD box with the correct pulldown, and this will make more difference than getting the best set out there... Or maybe not, what's your experience.
I'd like to get a 120hz set, the colours seem more stable on these, but it's not a deal breaker. Some plasmas out there are advertised as having 720hz panels?? What sort of marketting speak is this?
jdcsfu, that Sharp model is definitely on the short list. My local store has an open box on the floor. The only hing it lacks is 120hz, but this probably no big deal. What's the best US price? I'm in Canada, but close enough to the border to make a trip when needed. Too many of the online retailers don't ship to Canada, or tack on excessive fees when they do...
Office Depot has a lot of good deals down here clearing out their TV stock. I know they have stores in Canada too, you might check them out. I got my AOC 32" for under $450 from there.
Good tip.
Any experience with LG products? They have some very nice looking and fully featured sets at really nice prices. The 42" LX/70 have a nice swivel feature (about 20 degrees side to side.) Not enough to fall off the shelf, just enough to angle toward the kitchen counter when I'm making dinner...
Looks like it might have a glossy screen though...
Check out www.onecall.com. they have some great deals on there or at least they did last time I checked.
I've bought off this site and would recommend it.
Looks like I've found the TV set. Panasonic's 42" plasma. Deeper blacks, better viewing angle, higher frequency response. Also the only 42" plasma out there with 1080P resolution that fits my shelving - by .3cm !
A little short on inputs and processing, but adequate for our uses in those respects. It will need an HD cable source though.
So, best Canadian buy right now? Tiger Direct US store lists it at a fantastic price, but the Canadian Store doesn't... :grumble:
Any good Canadian online resellers?
Costco in the US has a Costco only SKU of the same TV, but frankly, without the old return policy, I wouldn't buy one from Costco. Our family has had horrible luck with Costco TVs. I've returned three of them for various failures within the first year, bulb and tube failures. I think they get their sets built in quantity out of surplus parts, end of run-production, and other outsourced stuff. Unless the model numbers match exactly with what the retailers list on their product pages, I stay away.
curiousuburb
2008-09-30, 14:33
Wait a bit if you can... as the credit crunch bites and the 'luxury spending' binge tapers off, plenty of high-end gear stands a good chance of getting heavily discounted.
As for TVs... I was looking recently... although my shelf/setup limited 32s
Philips 'AmbiLight' models (back of frame has LEDs to illuminate the surrounding wall with ambient colours of the video source) can make for interesting movies... or cheesy. IIRC they also have one model with killer sound (if you're not relying on an external Surround setup). Otherwise average.
Samsung/LG/Sony were also candidates, and while the Korean stuff was a bit more price competitive and offered almost-as-good value for money... side-by-side comparisons always seemed to have the Sony stuff looking substantially better to my mind. (Standard caveat that demo models may be poorly calibrated).
It's not just the panel itself (which can often be shared among competing brands, although Trinitron was exclusively Sony and they still maintain some in-house designs)... from year to year the biggest model tweak has tended to be the chipsets and ports. The BRAVIA engine seems a generation ahead of most competing chipsets over a range of sources.
100Hz+ refresh rate makes a huge difference if you're watching sport or other fast moving source... sharper, less pixelation and blur for some content. If your primary source doesn't usually bump up against that threshold, it's not good value for money yet... still a bit of a silly premium, IMO.
As for 1080p, the deciding factor is primarily viewing distance... I'm sure we've had other threads on that subject.
100Hz+ refresh rate makes a huge difference if you're watching sport or other fast moving source... sharper, less pixelation and blur for some content. If your primary source doesn't usually bump up against that threshold, it's not good value for money yet... still a bit of a silly premium, IMO.
As for 1080p, the deciding factor is primarily viewing distance... I'm sure we've had other threads on that subject.
A refresh rate increase is valuable if using the HDTV as a computer display for playing games, and for screen sizes over 32 in. or so, the 1080 is noticeable.
I recently bought a Sony Bravia KDL- 52XBR3 (1080p, 120 HZ). I also have a 37" Sanyo DP37647 (720p, 60HZ) I got for free when I bought some bedroom furniture from a place...
If I didn't have the Sony, I'd not be impressed with HDTV at all. But I do.. and I am.
curiousuburb
2008-09-30, 15:32
A refresh rate increase is valuable if using the HDTV as a computer display for playing games, and for screen sizes over 32 in. or so, the 1080 is noticeable.
I recently bought a Sony Bravia KDL- 52XBR3 (1080p, 120 HZ). I also have a 37" Sanyo DP37647 (720p, 60HZ) I got for free when I bought some bedroom furniture from a place...
If I didn't have the Sony, I'd not be impressed with HDTV at all. But I do.. and I am.
Agreed. If it's going to be a computer display, 1080p moves from optional to necessary.
Not sure if it holds across all products, but Sony = Apple in many ways... premium design/performance -vs- commodity competitors.
Sony makes good quality TVs, but there are a lot of other top-tier brands that are significantly cheaper. When you buy a Sony, you're paying for the brand emblem as much as anything.
Just when you think you've decided... My wife likes the Sony Bravia, as well as the LG 42"LG70, which I have to admitt does look good in the show room. Personally, I find the show room lighting makes it almost impossible to make image quality comparisons, but I agree that the Bravia Engine seems to be ahead of the rest.
Almost every sales person is next to useless, it's like they're taught to assume the average buyer is absolutely cluess. The things I've heard told to other customers while I wait for some service destroy any credibility.
One thing that does seem legit is the issue over plasma performance in a brightly lit room. Anyone here have a plasma? Particularly a new generation unit from Panasonic of Pioneer? Movie buffs rave about the blacks, colour, and motion resolution, but this could be a bit of snobbery on their part. Thoughts, experiences...
One thing that does seem legit is the issue over plasma performance in a brightly lit room. Anyone here have a plasma? Particularly a new generation unit from Panasonic of Pioneer? Movie buffs rave about the blacks, colour, and motion resolution, but this could be a bit of snobbery on their part. Thoughts, experiences...My brother has a newer plasma ('cause the price seems to be lower per square inch) in a regular living room and the picture is washed out every afternoon from about 2:00 PM to 7:00 PM or so. It's almost unviewable at times.
I have about the same brightness, same exposure in my family room and my LCD is only washed out if I let the light from a double glass door hit it directly. We have vertical blinds on the door and with them drawn, we have excellent viewing any time of day, and honestly, the black level on my TV seems to compare favorably to my brothers TV. He's got a Panasonic and I have the Sony, and my TV seems tons better to me and to him, though he maintains that the price was the thing and he wasn't going to spend as much as I did. Mine did cost about twice as much.
Yeah, I'm thinking that the plasma may have to wait for a day when I have a dedicated (dark) home theatre room. Our room has three large windows, two directly opposite the TV/media/bookcase wall-unit...
veryamusing
2008-10-02, 09:11
Hey, Matsu.
I just agonized over this decision, and finally decided on a Samsung 40" 1080p LCD HDTV (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN40A550-40-Inch-1080p-HDTV/dp/B001418W2C). From Amazon it was just $1034 w/free shipping.
The reviews say it's a great TV, and I'll post back with my impressions when I receive it.
Good luck!
:)
I didn't manage to see that model in show rooms, just the higher end version of same. Those have glossy screens (which I'm not a fan of for my space), yours doesn't. The reviews I've just glossed say it's the best available at that size and price... It really only lacks 120hz, which is not an absolute neccessity if you have a good pull-down and fast pixel response.
I'm going to see if I can audition it anywhere close by, or I'll wait for your hands on review...
Funny thing I noticed. If you go into a BestBuy or FutureShop (don't know if you have this one in the USA) or Sony Store they all recommend LCD regardless of use. This make sense for Sony as they don't sell Plasma, though the salesmen have been trained to poo-poo plasma in less than genuine terms. You might find a guy who recommends a Kuro if you're looking at the really large screens, but it's basically all LCD all the time.
If you go into an independent A/V shop, they all recommend Plasma, Bay Bloor Radio and Kromer in Toronto, for example, despite it's sometimes being available at a lower price than equivalent LCDs...
Thoughts...
curiousuburb
2008-10-05, 13:14
Different commission per technology or shop?
OLED screens are up/down to 11 inch for $1k USD.
Panel area matters, so widescreen will be cheaper than 4:3, just like it was in panel manufacturing before now.
Maybe joe public is getting the clue that another format shift is coming and holding off (c.f.: BluRay/HDDVD Beta/VHS... and are holding their water, so the manufacturers are pushing and pulling at random to try and cover the gap until OLED rubs the floor with both Plasma and LCD.
Not quite getting your 4:3 comments, that format shift is well and done now. I don't see any 4:3 TV in stores, and HDTV is set to fully replace NTSC broadcast soon. There's a world of legacy TV programming, but no one is buying 4:3 TV just to watch it.
Commissions swing the sales folks? Seems natural. The big box carry a bit of everything and push certain brands at different times of the year depending on what their buyers get a good margin on - they even get "exclusive" models for some items. However, I don't think their sales people get "commissions" like sales guys used to get in the old days. They probably get incentives depending on the purchasing and operations directives of the day/week/season.
The smaller shops carry a smaller number of lines. Bay-Bloor, for example, have only Sharp, Panasonic and Pioneer TVs. Essentially providing an equal number of plasma and LCD options at every 40" and up screen size. I think they make more money on the total dollar value of product purchased, actual commissions. They stand to gain by up-selling you, but they are willing to cut a deal and close the sale. In the big boxes, you have to virtually tackle someone to get help.
I don't think it has to do with profits really. I think it's a different set of biases about what's 'good' that pervades the different sales environs...
OLED looks like it will be awesome, but its going to be a few years before we get large and affordable sets for mere mortals...
Not quite getting your 4:3 comments
An "x" inch screen is smaller in terms of area when it's 16:9 vs 4:3.
I'm a little slow sometimes... however, just about everything is 16:9 now, so that comparison is moot.
It's more a question of display technology and production. In flat panels today there are LCD and Plasma. LCD has a cost edge at smaller sizes, plasma seems to have a cost edge at larger sizes, but it all depends on what you're comparing, and which attributes are most important to you.
In a few years there may be OLED that will supplant both. Technology changes. Even rear projection is quickly disappearing from the market. I didn't see one set in the local Bestbuy last week.
So, ultimately the performance/cost of the Panasonic won out. The room is bright, but the shutters in the offending windows stay drawn, and the TV fits like a glove -- it looks like the shelving was custom made for it.
Next week we hunt for a Blueray player or PS3. Thoughts, recommendations, ideas? Let me know...
So, ultimately the performance/cost of the Panasonic won out. The room is bright, but the shutters in the offending windows stay drawn, and the TV fits like a glove -- it looks like the shelving was custom made for it.
Next week we hunt for a Blueray player or PS3. Thoughts, recommendations, ideas? Let me know...I have a Sony BDP-S350 and can recommend it highly. I don't play console games, so the PS3 is a waste for me.
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/sony-bdp-s350/4505-6463_7-32868775.html
I do play games so I opted for the PS3. The PS3 is also useful as a media streamer from your Mac if you buy MediaLink, so that may be an additional reason to get one. Or if you want that functionality but don't want a PS3, just get an Airport Express.
spotcatbug
2008-10-09, 11:37
I have a Sony BDP-S350 and can recommend it highly. I don't play console games, so the PS3 is a waste for me.
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/sony-bdp-s350/4505-6463_7-32868775.html
Just a quick (serious) question: Why would you buy that player, when, for just a little more (or maybe the same?) money, you can have the PS3? I'm being serious, not trying to say you didn't make the right choice in a snide way.
I'm looking for a Blu-Ray player myself. I wasn't really interested in a PS3, but, from what I've seen so far, the prices make the PS3 very attractive as a "Blu-Ray player with an almost or completely free game system attached."
Just a quick (serious) question: Why would you buy that player, when, for just a little more (or maybe the same?) money, you can have the PS3? I'm being serious, not trying to say you didn't make the right choice in a snide way.It all comes down to this:
6 seconds to eject when off instead of 15 and only 23 seconds of loading after inserting a disc instead of a min or so
I don't have to use a game controller to play movies, or buy a separate remote.
I can use a single universal controller to power on/off and play movies, watch tv, or change my cable channels.
Better picture with regular DVD's
Better sound
spotcatbug
2008-10-09, 12:03
It all comes down to this:
6 seconds to eject when off instead of 15 and only 23 seconds of loading after inserting a disc instead of a min or so
I don't have to use a game controller to play movies, or buy a separate remote.
I can use a single universal controller to power on/off and play movies, watch tv, or change my cable channels.
Better picture with regular DVD's
Better sound
Ah. Thanks. I hadn't thought about the remote issues, etc.
The remote issue is a valid one because the PS3 uses bluetooth. However using the controller to play movies is a non-issue for me since everything is already mapped to the buttons on the PS3 controller. I actually have the bluetooth remote and I never use it because using the controller is just easier.
It all comes down to this:
6 seconds to eject when off instead of 15 and only 23 seconds of loading after inserting a disc instead of a min or so
I don't have to use a game controller to play movies, or buy a separate remote.
I can use a single universal controller to power on/off and play movies, watch tv, or change my cable channels.
Better picture with regular DVD's
Better sound
I was of the impression that the PS3 was one of the highest quality Blu-ray players; it's the one that the Criterion Collection is using as its "control" player, for instance. It's also always the first to get updated to the newest profiles. That's worth buying an extra remote for me, but if the gaming/other media capabilities are honestly moot to you, I guess I can sorta see why you'd go with a dedicated player. (Well, not really. But whatever.) :)
From C|Net...
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-blu-ray-players/
PS3 media recognizes the following media types:
BD-ROM, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM
The BDP-S350:
DVD+R, CD, JPEG, CD-RW, DVD-RW, CD-R, DVD+RW, DVD, BD-R, DVD-R, BD-RE
I have a DVD recorder and I use DVD-RW for my recordings. From what I was able to tell, the PS3 won't recognize them.
spotcatbug
2008-10-09, 14:11
From C|Net...
http://reviews.cnet.com/best-blu-ray-players/
PS3 media recognizes the following media types:
BD-ROM, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM
The BDP-S350:
DVD+R, CD, JPEG, CD-RW, DVD-RW, CD-R, DVD+RW, DVD, BD-R, DVD-R, BD-RE
I have a DVD recorder and I use DVD-RW for my recordings. From what I was able to tell, the PS3 won't recognize them.
Oh my. Even the lowliest, $25 DVD player will play DVD+-R discs.
Can somebody with a PS3 confirm that it won't play DVD+-R discs?
torifile
2008-10-09, 14:21
Oh my. Even the lowliest, $25 DVD player will play DVD+-R discs.
Can somebody with a PS3 confirm that it won't play DVD+-R discs?
My PS3 has played my DVD-R discs fine. :confused:
I'm sure they were using different terminology. The PS3's information is just simplified. It would have been clearer if it had said that the PS3 played "Blu-Ray, CD, and DVD media," which would naturally encompass all the different variations of each type.
Digging deeper (which isn't that easy when there are 47 bajillion google hits to weed through) - the PS3 does indeed read seemingly all media formats...
CD Disc media (read only):
* PlayStation CD-ROM
* PlayStation 2 CD-ROM
* CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW
* SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD
* DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD Disc media (read only):
* PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM
* PLAYSTATION 3 DVD-ROM
* DVD-Video: DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc media (read only):
* PLAYSTATION 3 BD-ROM
* BD-Video: BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/a/PS3SpecsDetails_3.htm
Sorry to hijack the thread, but is the deal on teh Westinghouse on Woot right now a good one?
Woot (http://www.woot.com/)
I would just use it as a regular TV hooked up to my Comcast box. What do you guys think?
It's a great deal as long as you don't need a built-in tuner (which it sounds like you don't).
Plus it's 1080p, meaning it's well suited for use as a computer monitor.
...
Plus it's 1080p, meaning it's well suited for use as a computer monitor.
My 1080i/720p works pretty good for the media center. I wouldn't use it to do PS work with, but it's about the same as using my MB, just larger. :D That to say that using a 720p from the couch isn't really bad at all either though 1080p would be better obviously.
Nothing wrong with 720p, I have one, but it's not the best for everyday use as a computer screen. Otherwise I can't really tell the difference.
Should I just jump on this one?
I wasn't really in the market for a new TV, but the one I have in my room right now is at least 8 years old and the color and sound are starting to go.
Do you think I could get a better deal if I waited until Black Friday?
No, I'd say do it now. My 32", 720p (albeit with a tuner included) was $450 refurbished. For about $100 more you get a higher resolution and a 5" larger diagonal. If you wait until Black Friday, you might find a deal that's similar to this one, but you're unlikely to find one that's significantly better. And you might just miss out because there are a zillion other people shopping at the same time.
I'm behind on this now, but yeah my PS3 reads DVD+/-R discs no problem. In fact it's read everything I've burned on my Mac so far.
You know what would be really useful, a BD player DVD recorder combo to cut down on components. I have no idea what a BD recorder would cost...
Wait. Woot had a 37" 1080p TV for $550?!? Holy fuck.
I cheaped out when I bought my TV and got a less-than-stellar set from a less-than-stellar brand. Now, I'm thinking about downsizing and getting a smaller, but higher quality set. But wow. Westinghouse isn't my favorite brand either, but I would have been able to get a larger, higher quality set! Oh well. I'm not about ready to buy a massive TV just before moving :lol:
Has anyone had experience with the Bravia M-series (the low-end)? I'm impressed that you can now get Bravias for under $500. They're small, but it's not like I have tons of space anyways. And they're cute ^_^
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