View Full Version : The Money Makers
What languages and skills are on the rise? I'm proficient in java and decent enough with Flex/Dojo that I can write clean code.
I foresee Ruby on Rails being a big technology, but fear that the scaling issues will scare a lot of companies.
With that said, what are the languages that are hot right now and bringing home the big bucks?
I'm betting on Tibetan, personally...
Oh, wait, Programer's Nook... my mistake...
COBOL, as always.
So damn true... I up and dashed off to the games industry when I first left school.. But I have friends who went the banking route with COBOL and made my relatively healthy earnings (especially for my age and experience) look like peanuts...
Nowadays if you can get a COBOL position / contract you are set.
Not as set as the people in the AIG unit that brought the company to it's knees. But that's a topic for another thread...
Python is what all the kids are using. A lot of backend web development is being done in Python, be it from scratch or being ported from PHP.
Of course, PHP is still dominant on the backend - if you don't know PHP it's pretty easy to pick up, although PHP might eventually drive you insane :p But in seriousness, there's so much PHP out there you never know when you might get into a situation where you need to decipher someone's almost certainly poorly-written PHP.
Consider ObjC/Cocoa too - well designed iPhone apps are cash cows. Indie Mac apps aren't anything to sneeze at either. For whatever reason a lot of people consider ObjC to be "weird."
I had a guest speaker in concurrent programming the other day who who works for a mobile app development firm. Now, this company has a completely ass-backwards view of the mobile app landscape right now. First, their main app is a to-be-released Shazam knockoff which doesn't appear to offer anything more than Shazam does. Second, the only mobile platform this company doesn't develop for is, you guessed it, iPhone.
Point being, when he covered the major mobile development languages, he described ObjC as a "weird alien language" and left it at that. :D We'll see how that works out for him.
Indeed, Python and ObjC are at the top of my "languages-to-learn" list :)
bassplayinMacFiend
2009-03-17, 10:45
COBOL isn't dead yet, but with companies like Microfocus charging $25K for their compiler, it is being hunted down and replaced as opportunities arise (where I work anyway).
Looks like Java is still in hot demand. People are beginning to look for Rails developers.
Kraetos, if I wanted to be paid 30 bucks an hour instead of 80, I'd look into learning PhP ;-p
Python looks nice and all, but if you look on the job boards in most big cities I'm not seeing it yet. Still mostly Java and flex/js libraries
Looks like Java is still in hot demand. Really? Our CS department has an advisory board made up of a successful professionals in the industry, and they all say Java is the one language they aren't hiring for, if only because everyone knows it. They've said they have enough Java school students.
That board is the reason the CS major here only requires *one* course in Java, Algorithm Design 2. AG1 is the first course in the sequence and is taught in C.
Python is one they're interested in right now, but they still caution students against focusing on any one language.
Kraetos, if I wanted to be paid 30 bucks an hour instead of 80, I'd look into learning PhP ;-p
Like I said in my earlier post, I don't suggest learning PHP for the purposes of writing it. I suggest learning PHP because it's immensely popular and you never know when you'll have to deal with it. What if you end up working for a company trying to move away from PHP? You're going to need to understand their old code. What about a company that has code for different things written in different languages, i.e., all of them? If you don't know Perl, I'd suggest learning it for the same reason. (Although Perl still is useful in it's own right. If you know one, you can learn the other very quickly.)
What if your employer wants you to set up or maintain a blog? They're going to use WordPress or Movable Type, which are done in PHP and Perl (with a dash of PHP) respectively. At my last internship, I was given that responsibility, over all of the other programmers, because I was literally the only one who knew PHP or WordPress. Me, the lowly intern who spent most of his time hunting Perl and JavaScript bugs, tasked with installing, designing, and maintaining the company blog. The company didn't have a single line of PHP anywhere else. Were they going to roll their own, or use something like Pebble (http://pebble.sourceforge.net/) for the sake of staying internally consistent? No, of course not. On my way out I had to give a crash-course on PHP/WordPress to one of the full-time employees.
What if you find yourself working with a CMS? It'll probably be Drupal, Joomla, Mambo, PHP-Nuke, or ExpressionEngine. What if you find yourself working with a bulletin board? It'll probably be phpBB or vBulletin.
PHP. All of them.
My internships have taught me that the majority of "real-world programming" consists of reading, understanding, and even debugging someone else's code, and statistically speaking, someone else's code is probably PHP. Welcome to the life of a code monkey. Don't even think about relying on the comments - what if there aren't any? Worse, what if someone else has been in there to change something and the comment is no longer accurate?
In that vein, you're seriously hurting yourself in the job market if you don't know Java, C++, and/or PHP (http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html), none of which I would consider "money-makers" by your definition in the beginning of the thread. Versatility is one of the greatest assets a programmer can have. Merely knowing the languages which are "on the rise" is not. If you think you can walk into a job interview and tell someone that you're going to write in the language you want to because it's better, you're dreaming, and if you plan on limiting your job search to places using Ruby or Flex exclusively, good luck. Nobody wants a "Ruby programmer" or even a "PHP programmer." They want a programmer. Learn - and understand - these three languages, and you'll be able to jump to almost any other language being put to practical use today, Python, Ruby, and ObjC included.
You're gonna have to squeeze MySQL in there, too. ;)
Really? Our CS department has an advisory board made up of a successful professionals in the industry, and they all say Java is the one language they aren't hiring for, if only because everyone knows it. They've said they have enough Java school students.
That board is the reason the CS major here only requires *one* course in Java, Algorithm Design 2. AG1 is the first course in the sequence and is taught in C.
Python is one they're interested in right now, but they still caution students against focusing on any one language.
Java is at an all-time high in the Milwaukee and Chicago areas. I have found that about 90% of what I've learned in schools useless.
Rails and PHP aren't mainstream enough. And you know how these big companies are all worried about their scaling issues before they can even mock up their idea. :lol:
Rails and PHP aren't mainstream enough.
:confused:
It doesn't get more mainstream than PHP.
TIOBE Programming Community Index for March 2009 (http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html)
1. Java
2. C
3. C++
4. PHP
5. Visual Basic
6. Python
7. C#
8. JavaScript
9. Perl
10. Delphi
11. Ruby
Mentioned in this thread but not in the top 20:
ObjC
Flex
COBOL
Mentioned in this thread but not in the top 20:
ObjC
Flex
COBOL
Granted, these three each fit only into their own special niches: Mac OS X (and iPod/iPhone), Adobe Flash, and ancient mainframes, respectively.
Java is at an all-time high in the Milwaukee and Chicago areas. I have found that about 90% of what I've learned in schools useless.
Rails and PHP aren't mainstream enough. And you know how these big companies are all worried about their scaling issues before they can even mock up their idea. :lol:I don't think their point was that Java is useless, just that everyone already knows it.
With that said, what are the languages that are hot right now and bringing home the big bucks?This is a poor approach.
Rails and PHP aren't mainstream enough. And you know how these big companies are all worried about their scaling issues before they can even mock up their idea. :lol:I'm not sure what this means. Yahoo! (#2), Facebook (#5), Wikipedia (#7), Wordpress (#24), and Flickr (#35) are all made using PHP and are large enough.
I'm not sure that you have an entirely clear idea what scale means. For any big site, the majority of the content you're going to be served will be cached. If it's something like a news site, you're probably not even interacting with any kind of dynamic language at all — the entire output of the site can be cached. The relative speed of pure PHP execution vs. Java or Python is large irrelevant. Scale comes from load balancers, multiple databases, things supported by all major web languages. For what it's worth, Flickr (as of last year), has 35 thousand photos uploaded per second, or 2 million photographs per minute, which isn't bad as far as scale goes.
I generally agree with Kraetos. The people that are successful are the ones that are good programmers in general and understand their domain very well (whether it's the web, mobile, or the desktop). Be really good at one or two languages and then diversify your knowledge — learn about graphic design or typography. Probably what's more important than worrying about which language to learn is to just do something. Find a project and work on it. Start your own. Your portfolio and your work experience is more important than what you say you know.
Good luck.
What Kraetos and synotic say is very true.
There is nothing better than experience...
My programming career spans almost 30 years now.
And yet in the last 5 years I learned (for the first time) C++, Cocoa, and about 5 different flavours of assembly.
I also picked up PHP, Perl and a few others along the way.
Actually learning the basics for C++ or Cocoa took me about a day.
Once you have the basics of *any* of these languages most of the conventions carry over from one to another.
Mastering Cocoa and C++ is an ongoing process.
Learning all the different libraries and conventions is another ongoing process.
Notwithstanding the fact that all these languages and libraries are evolving all the time!
Throughout all that I have put out several fully fledged apps for clients, and also my own use.
Quite often learning a new language or flavour of assembly as I went...
General experience is always going to stand you in better stead than a specific skill set in a single area.
I don't think their point was that Java is useless, just that everyone already knows it.
Correct. And everyone uses it. And there is a massive talent shortage in the USA.
Correct. And everyone uses it. And there is a massive talent shortage in the USA.No, that's the opposite of their point. They have all the Java talent they need, but they can't get enough entry-level workers who know anything else and they're tired of needing to spend time and money training them right out the gate.
I'm getting confused.
Java is at an all-time high in the Milwaukee and Chicago areas. I have found that about 90% of what I've learned in schools useless.
Java is at an all time high, but it's useless?
Correct. And everyone uses it. And there is a massive talent shortage in the USA.
Are you arguing that Java is valuable because everyone wants Java programmers?
Or are you arguing that the proliferation of Java is causing a talent shortage?
I'm getting confused.
Java is at an all time high, but it's useless?
Are you arguing that Java is valuable because everyone wants Java programmers?
Or are you arguing that the proliferation of Java is causing a talent shortage?
You learn Java in school? We have one java class, the 6th programming class you can take. All the lower ones are in C++, C or a combination of SML/Prolog.
There is a talent shortage in just about all engineering/IT field in America. Completely unrelated to java. Java rates are high. Much higher than PHP. Pair java knowledge with Dojo/Jquery/Flex, something like that, and it is easy to earn big bucks. IT really hasn't slowed down too much during the recession. In Chicago, IT is still growing.
Don't know about the entry level positions.
This is a poor approach.
I agree. IANAProgrammer but any approach like this one just seems sort of short-sighted.
Be really good at one or two languages and then diversify your knowledge — learn about graphic design or typography.
As a graphic design/typography person this statement is relevant to my interests. I personally don't feel that the two fields are very related - after all, I was never told that I should diversify into computer programming. :) What has been your experience regarding graphic design and typography? Is it something that you are often asked to do, in lieu of an actual "designer" (no offense intended)?
I guess I come from a world where saying something looks "in-house" is the gravest insult (OK, I'm exaggerating, for most of us), and one that probably isn't too trusting of software engineers to do design work (after all, it's software engineers at Microsoft that are responsible for popularizing Arial, the bastardized version of Helvetica :mad: ). But then again, it's also a world that is very much trying to validate its self-worth and is very self-conscious about being a "legitimate" profession (we've all had to explain to relatives that "it's not just pretty pictures!") so perhaps we are just being defensive.
I promise I'll try not to label my least favorite tech logos as "done by their software engineers," though.
But Xerox! That explains everything! :lol:
Hey, I said I'd try. ;)
As a graphic design/typography person this statement is relevant to my interests. I personally don't feel that the two fields are very related - after all, I was never told that I should diversify into computer programming. :) What has been your experience regarding graphic design and typography? Is it something that you are often asked to do, in lieu of an actual "designer" (no offense intended)?Thanks for your post. Admittedly, asking a graphic designer to diversify into computer programming sounds a little silly. If you're doing posters or print work, the two don't really intersect. That said, in my particular field (web development), the two are very closely interconnected. My personal experience (as with everyone's) is bound to be different, but generally I am hired to do some kind of development work with a few key requirements laid out. I then insist on making the thing usable and fast, people complain, I show them what I've done, and then they demand that the rest be as good. Priorities realign. If you're at all curious about my background, you're welcome to peruse my site (http://thommeret.com/).
I guess I come from a world where saying something looks "in-house" is the gravest insult (OK, I'm exaggerating, for most of us), and one that probably isn't too trusting of software engineers to do design work (after all, it's software engineers at Microsoft that are responsible for popularizing Arial, the bastardized version of Helvetica :mad:)This part confused me a little :). Are you saying that adopting a house style is frowned upon or that the graphic designers are complaining that the work looks like programmers designed it?
But then again, it's also a world that is very much trying to validate its self-worth and is very self-conscious about being a "legitimate" profession (we've all had to explain to relatives that "it's not just pretty pictures!") so perhaps we are just being defensive.Very true. It's a constant struggle to balance the design and the deadline. When ever someone complains about "form following function" I usually respond by saying that function is necessary, but not sufficient. I'm not arguing that it should look pretty before it works, I'm assuming that you've already done that. Most things, when it comes to computers, we've already been able to do — reading newspapers, buying airline tickets, listening to music, etc... What differentiates computer-ized version from the "real thing" is generally that it's easier-to-do and better designed. If you take that view, then creating something without designing it to be more useful or more compelling, is pointless, as far as I see it.
You learn Java in school? We have one java class, the 6th programming class you can take. All the lower ones are in C++, C or a combination of SML/Prolog.
More and more schools are teaching all CS courses in Java these days. Some cover C++ in the more advanced classes, but others merely touch upon C++ in ProgLangs. My school is one such school; my advisor suggested this book (http://www.amazon.com/Java-Programmers-Mark-Allen-Weiss/dp/013919424X) so I can get up to speed on C++. Of course, the more technical schools are sticking with C++ because they see the value in training programmers with a harder language, and they don't need to put as much effort into snaring CS students to begin with.
Whether or not this is a good thing is highly debated, and there's no clear answer. I started a thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=29811) on this last year, but in a nutshell, the reasoning behind using Java to teach CS is that it's less likely to send students packing from CS 101, head spinning from things like pointers and segfaults. The downside is, the ones who aren't proactive never learn several important (and, from a Java programmers perspective, difficult) programming concepts, and graduate with a gimped understanding of programming as a whole.
The end result is, Java programmers - especially mediocre ones - are abundant. I don't know where you get the idea that Java programmers are rare gems to be treasured, because that's simply not true. They're a dime a dozen. That Java is at an all time high isn't indicative of a lack of Java programmers. If your CS degree is C++ based, you've got a leg up on many CS students, myself included. There's no reason to go out of your way to learn Java when you could be learning something more valuable for server-side scripting, because it seems like that's the direction you want to move in. Java cant hurt, of course, but it's not as dominant on the web as PHP, nor is it's future as promising as Python's.
There is a talent shortage in just about all engineering/IT field in America. Completely unrelated to java.
I and many others would argue that one can draw a straight line from Java school to the mediocrity of today's American CS grads. Like virtually everything else about Java, using Java to teach CS is a good idea in theory, but, in practice, the benefits aren't as pronounced and the consequences of the drawbacks are more serious than they originally appeared to be. The talent shortage is potentially very related to Java.
The Perils of Java School (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html) Spolsky is a windbag a lot of the time, but most of what he writes has at least a kernel of truth to it, and this is one of those instances where he is probably more right than wrong.
A Conversation with Alan Kay (http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1039523) I trust Alan Kay a lot more than I trust Spolsky, and Kay has the same Java school concerns as well.
What If I Went to Java School, Joel? (http://thinkingdigitally.com/archive/what-if-i-went-to-a-java-school-joel/) Thoughts from a student about to graduate from Java school.
Java rates are high. Much higher than PHP. Pair java knowledge with Dojo/Jquery/Flex, something like that, and it is easy to earn big bucks.
Pair PHP or ASP with XHTML, CSS, JavaScript+frameworks, and MySQL, and you've got yourself a web developer familiar with the dominant web architectures.
Pair the same skills with Java instead, and now your web developer is limited to Tomcat :\ Pair with only Python or only Ruby, and the poor guy is in an even smaller minority. For best results, learn more than one!
What leads you to believe that a programmer limited to Java/JSP, two JavaScript frameworks, and Flex is likely to get a a higher paying job than a PHP web developer? The simple fact is, there are a lot more companies out there using PHP. I'm not sure why you think PHP programmers automatically make less than half of what Java programmers make, and I doubt either of these theoretical programmers would, in practice, make as much as a programmer who knows both.
Do you know JavaScript, or are you only familiar with the frameworks themselves? There is a huge difference between knowing a JavaScript framework, and JavaScript itself.
Don't know about the entry level positions.
Ah, well, that's where you're likely to find a Java school grad ;)
Sarcasm aside, you originally asked what languages you need to know to score a preferably high-paying web development job. The answer does not include Java, Ruby, Flex, or any one JS framework. The answer is probably PHP, because it's dominant, and probably Python looking forward. If you don't already, you're going to need to know the standard battery of client-side technologies as well: (X)HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and Flash+ActionScript if you're so inclined.
:confused:
It doesn't get more mainstream than PHP.
TIOBE Programming Community Index for March 2009 (http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html)
1. Java
2. C
3. C++
4. PHP
5. Visual Basic
6. Python
7. C#
8. JavaScript
9. Perl
10. Delphi
11. Ruby
Mentioned in this thread but not in the top 20:
ObjC
Flex
COBOL
From that page: "The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors." and "Observe that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written."
In other words, this shows how strong the competition is, not where the work to be done is. If you want to find out where the *valuable* (ie, high paying) work to be had is, try looking at the numbers of LOC in each language, and then cross-reference that with the above list, but look for places where there *aren't* a lot of specialists.
COBOL is basically the top pick then, scary but true.
try looking at the numbers of LOC in each language
Where can that be found? I'm curious as to which of the web languages comes out on top when you look at it this way.
I've been searching! For *years* COBOL has been the number one all-time winner for LOC still in use. C/C++ passed it a couple of years ago, Java *may* have caught up by now.
So go where the LOC are still in use and need to be maintained, but there aren't that many practitioners, if you want to make the big bucks. You won't be working with the latest and greatest, but you will have steady significant income.
(A buddy of mine dropped out of undergrad CS in '97, learned COBOL inside and out, applied his more modern knowledge of analysis techniques, and made a KILLING during the Y2K runup. Went back to school after 2000 several hundred thousand dollars richer.)
Well, I would imagine the server-side scripting LOC leader is PHP? Perhaps ASP? (Perhaps Perl/CGI?)
More and more schools are teaching all CS courses in Java these days. Some cover C++ in the more advanced classes, but others merely touch upon C++ in ProgLangs. My school is one such school; my advisor suggested this book (http://www.amazon.com/Java-Programmers-Mark-Allen-Weiss/dp/013919424X) so I can get up to speed on C++. Of course, the more technical schools are sticking with C++ because they see the value in training programmers with a harder language, and they don't need to put as much effort into snaring CS students to begin with.
Whether or not this is a good thing is highly debated, and there's no clear answer. I started a thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=29811) on this last year, but in a nutshell, the reasoning behind using Java to teach CS is that it's less likely to send students packing from CS 101, head spinning from things like pointers and segfaults. The downside is, the ones who aren't proactive never learn several important (and, from a Java programmers perspective, difficult) programming concepts, and graduate with a gimped understanding of programming as a whole.
It's a bad thing. Learning C and C++ is absolutely critical to understanding how systems work imo. I took two semesters of assembly and now C, and I still don't feel I know enough.
The end result is, Java programmers - especially mediocre ones - are abundant. I don't know where you get the idea that Java programmers are rare gems to be treasured, because that's simply not true. They're a dime a dozen. That Java is at an all time high isn't indicative of a lack of Java programmers. If your CS degree is C++ based, you've got a leg up on many CS students, myself included. There's no reason to go out of your way to learn Java when you could be learning something more valuable for server-side scripting, because it seems like that's the direction you want to move in. Java cant hurt, of course, but it's not as dominant on the web as PHP, nor is it's future as promising as Python's.
There are not a lot of java programmers in comparison to the amount of java jobs to be filled. There. Is. A. Talent. Shortage. In. America. In. Just. About. All. Engineering. And. IT. Fields. Get that through you head :) . I work for a leading staffing firm, I'm completely 110% positive that I know what I'm talking about.
Python and PhP require more servers as they aren't compiled languages. I'm not sure they're the languages of the future on the 'net, but I'm not sure.
I and many others would argue that one can draw a straight line from Java school to the mediocrity of today's American CS grads. Like virtually everything else about Java, using Java to teach CS is a good idea in theory, but, in practice, the benefits aren't as pronounced and the consequences of the drawbacks are more serious than they originally appeared to be. The talent shortage is potentially very related to Java.
Very true that java being prevalent in all these schools is hurting peoples knowledge coming out of school, sure, but as a result these people are much better java developers to begin with. What does that get them? Not sure. I definitely think having a strong foundation in C is very valuable.
Pair PHP or ASP with XHTML, CSS, JavaScript+frameworks, and MySQL, and you've got yourself a web developer familiar with the dominant web architectures. Pair the same skills with Java instead, and now your web developer is limited to Tomcat :\ Pair with only Python or only Ruby, and the poor guy is in an even smaller minority. For best results, learn more than one!
? I don't agree with that at all.
What leads you to believe that a programmer limited to Java/JSP, two JavaScript frameworks, and Flex is likely to get a a higher paying job than a PHP web developer? The simple fact is, there are a lot more companies out there using PHP. I'm not sure why you think PHP programmers automatically make less than half of what Java programmers make, and I doubt either of these theoretical programmers would, in practice, make as much as a programmer who knows both.
Look at realrates.com, or check on dice.com and the other job board sites. I really don't think that many companies use Php. I could be wrong. Milwaukee is chock full of java and/or microsoft shops. I was looking up average senior developer rates, and PHP rates are significantly lower than java rates.
Do you know JavaScript, or are you only familiar with the frameworks themselves? There is a huge difference between knowing a JavaScript framework, and JavaScript itself.
Who doesn't know a little java script? I'm not sure what you're implying here. Again, anyone that is interested in making any real money will learn a tool in great depth. I myself have used Dojo and Flex extensively, haven't really played around with Jquery but I hear its pretty boss.
Ah, well, that's where you're likely to find a Java school grad ;)
Sarcasm aside, you originally asked what languages you need to know to score a preferably high-paying web development job. The answer does not include Java, Ruby, Flex, or any one JS framework. The answer is probably PHP, because it's dominant, and probably Python looking forward. If you don't already, you're going to need to know the standard battery of client-side technologies as well: (X)HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and Flash+ActionScript if you're so inclined.[/QUOTE]
No offense dude, but you don't work in the industry and don't really know what you're talking about. COBAL rates are pretty outrageously high. Java's right up there. I've got one guy I work with bringing in 95 bucks an hour himself (bills 200 for his consultant agency), and another guy bringing in 55 per hour (not sure what his bill rate is). My bill rate isn't super duper high, but its right up there with most of the senior php developer rates I see on real rates. If only I was taking it all home :)
Partial — What's your angle here? You're asking us what jobs pay the most and what people are looking for, yet you supposedly work for a leading staffing firm with access to rates of jobs all across the industry. Your approach is just baffling.
No offense dude, but you don't work in the industry and don't really know what you're talking about. COBAL rates are pretty outrageously high. Java's right up there. I've got one guy I work with bringing in 95 bucks an hour himself (bills 200 for his consultant agency), and another guy bringing in 55 per hour (not sure what his bill rate is). My bill rate isn't super duper high, but its right up there with most of the senior php developer rates I see on real rates. If only I was taking it all home :)
Heh. One of the guys I work with pulls in $10,000 a day in billable.
No, that's not a typo.
Heh. One of the guys I work with pulls in $10,000 a day in billable.
No, that's not a typo.
Right but you're in New Yawrk. Rates arre a lot lower in midwest. Regardless. Hella cool!
There are not a lot of java programmers in comparison to the amount of java jobs to be filled. There. Is. A. Talent. Shortage. In. America. In. Just. About. All. Engineering. And. IT. Fields. Get that through you head :) . I work for a leading staffing firm, I'm completely 110% positive that I know what I'm talking about.
I and many others would argue that one can draw a straight line from Java school to the mediocrity of today's American CS grads.
There is a talent shortage. As you can see, I already said I am aware of this. No need for condescension.
Python and PhP require more servers as they aren't compiled languages. I'm not sure they're the languages of the future on the 'net, but I'm not sure.
Like synotic mentioned in his first post, relative execution speed of the language being used is not a primary concern when it comes to scaling. If it was, we certainly wouldn't be looking at Java for a solution.
Why are you continually speaking of PHP as if it's some minor, upstart language nobody cares about? The popularity if PHP is well-documented in this thread already. I can't definitively tell you that PHP is used by more websites than JSP is, because I can't find numbers to support that specific statement, one way or another. But given that Apache is by far the most popular web server (http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html) in use today (66%) and PHP is the most popular Apache module (39% of Apache servers have PHP installed (http://www.securityspace.com/s_survey/data/man.200702/apachemods.html) as of 2007), it stands to reason that PHP is pretty damn popular, no?
I don't agree with that at all.
What don't you agree with? My analysis of server-side programming language popularity? Can you show me that JSP is more popular than PHP? I'd love to hear that, since my Java is better than my PHP. But I'm pretty sure PHP is still top dog. I'm also pretty sure that most of Web 2.0 isn't being done in Java. Maybe that's not where you're looking to work, but given that you cite Dojo, jQuery, and Flex as your other skills, it seems like you are interested in the web.
Who doesn't know a little java script? I'm not sure what you're implying here. Again, anyone that is interested in making any real money will learn a tool in great depth. I myself have used Dojo and Flex extensively, haven't really played around with Jquery but I hear its pretty boss.
I'm not implying anything, I'm simply asking you if you know JavaScript, or if you know Dojo, because they aren't the same thing, and knowing the former is more valuable in the long run than knowing the latter.
No offense dude, but you don't work in the industry and don't really know what you're talking about. COBAL rates are pretty outrageously high. Java's right up there. I've got one guy I work with bringing in 95 bucks an hour himself (bills 200 for his consultant agency), and another guy bringing in 55 per hour (not sure what his bill rate is). My bill rate isn't super duper high, but its right up there with most of the senior php developer rates I see on real rates. If only I was taking it all home :)
COBOL rates are high, but that's not web programming, which is why I haven't brought it up.
A programming language is a tool you use to accomplish a task, and I don't need to have graduated to know that. Arguing that you should be paid well because you know Java is akin to arguing you should be paid well because you know how to use a table saw. Learning a programming language is the beginning of being a skilled programmer, not the end.
Telling me someone earns $95 an hour because he knows Java means nothing. What experience does he have? Where else has he worked? What else has he written? What other skills does he have? What is the task at hand? You're focusing on the tools here, and you should be focusing on the task. Once you understand the task, it will become clear which tools you need to use to accomplish it. Your goal should be to understand some of the most common, fundamental languages, because that understanding will allow you to move to other languages with ease, in turn allowing you to accomplish any task you come across.
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