View Full Version : Wireless iPods? Transfer songs/files between iPods
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 10:23
Any truth to the rumor that there will be Bluetooth/wireless iPods that can communicate with each other?
The theory is that the new wireless iPods will be able to transmit songs and text messages (photos? files?) to other enabled iPods.
Imagine that!
You no longer have to buy a dock to upload/update your iPod - merely set it in range of your iMac.
You have a song, photo or file you want to share with a friend? Simply get within range, accept the data and -viola! File transferred.
What to transfer work files between home and the office? 40 gig wireless iPod.
Now imagne if instead of being like a souped up Nintendo DS that can only communicate with other Nintendo DS models - what if Apple took it a step further and pushed the iPod wireless into Blackberry/PDA territory? Allowed your iPod to download your emails from any wi-fi hotspot anywhere?
What if Apple create an ultra compact foldable iKeyboard-mini that you could hook up to the wi-fi enabled iPod?
NOW what if you could hook up you wi-fi iPod/blackberry to ANY monitor to view everything? Photos, emails, spreadsheets, etc.
So instead of going to an intenet cafe and using their computer - you'd just use their monitors? Plug the jack into the iPod wi-fi and the other end into the HDTV jack and you your done.
Woudn't this essentially make the iPod wi-fi an iBook - only much much smaller?
1. You will still need to charge your iPod. Cradles aren't going anywhere sans some miraculous battery technology breakthough.
2. Sending music files to eachother...how is this legal again? Your .M4P is not my .M4P, therefore there's no reason for me to have it. At best, you could "share" to a limited number of iPods, but not actually transfer the files per se. Why do I want to waste my iPod's HD and battery letting some person listen to my iPod remotely while I'm listening to it also?
3. There is no step 3.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 10:48
Sharing music from iPod to iPod is really no different then if I made a tape of a CD and gave it to someone else. That is pefectly legal and so would this.
I'm not sure why you'd think that a wi-fi iPod which would essentially be a slightly less functional iBook would be a waste.
Seems to me that with the overwhelming popularity of Blackberry's and small IM'ing devices that a wi-fi enabled iPod would be perfect - just like a blackberry expect with a 20 gig hard drive.
People can either spend $2,000 for a powerbook, $1,000 for an iBook or $300 for a wi-fi iPod PDA (with mini/collapsable keyboard)
My theory is that the iPhoto-iPod that everyone is scratching their heads over - wasn't about photos at all. It was perfecting the color monitor for the iPod and managing large file sizes. Two critical components to creating a wi-fi PDA iPod.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 10:52
2. Sending music files to eachother...how is this legal again? Your .M4P is not my .M4P, therefore there's no reason for me to have it. At best, you could "share" to a limited number of iPods, but not actually transfer the files per se. Why do I want to waste my iPod's HD and battery letting some person listen to my iPod remotely while I'm listening to it also?
I re-read that and I'm not sure what your saying. Are you thinking the music would just be "streamed" between iPods and not actually sent as files? Yes, I agree that would be pointless. I'm talking about sending ANY type of file between iPods.
Sharing music from iPod to iPod is really no different then if I made a tape of a CD and gave it to someone else. That is pefectly legal and so would this.
? :no:
I'm not sure why you'd think that a wi-fi iPod which would essentially be a slightly less functional iBook would be a waste.
I said that?
Seems to me that with the overwhelming popularity of Blackberry's and small IM'ing devices that a wi-fi enabled iPod would be perfect - just like a blackberry except with a 20 gig hard drive.
Blackerries are not merely wi-fi. They are cellphones. iPod would be the size of the BlackBerry 7520, and then, it'd cease to be an iPod.
People can either spend $2,000 for a powerbook, $1,000 for an iBook or $300 for a wi-fi iPod PDA (with mini/collapsable keyboard)
My theory is that the iPhoto-iPod that everyone is scratching their heads over - wasn't about photos at all. It was perfecting the color monitor for the iPod and managing large file sizes. Two critical components to creating a wi-fi PDA iPod.
Look, I enjoy your enthusiam, but your ideas are better suited for a non-iPod product of some sort.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 11:02
Blackberry http://www.blackberry.com/products/blackberry7500/blackberry7520.shtml
I thnk it would brilliant marketing if Apple simply created an iPod Blackberry. Honestly I see no reason why an iPod couldn't do everything that a Blackberry does (in fact, do it better!)
Given the huge popularity of Blackberrys and iPods - it would utterly crush all competition. While Microsoft and Rio and trying to come up with the next MP3 only iPod killer -- Apple would once again be light years ahead of the competition by creating a device that is way beyond a simple MP3 player.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 11:06
? Blackerries are not merely wi-fi. They are cellphones. iPod would be the size of the BlackBerry 7520, and then, it'd cease to be an iPod.
That is an excellent point!
BUT - if Apple were smart and simply left out the cumbersome cell phone part AND let the keyboard by attachable/detachable -- it would still be the exact same size as an iPod.
Wel, granted it might be slightly larger to accomodate the wi-fi equip, but the increase in saize would be very slight.
The Blackberry iPod would NOT have a phone and the keyboard would NOT be built in. It would essentially be the same size and have all the functionality of a Blackberry.
I re-read that and I'm not sure what your saying. Are you thinking the music would just be "streamed" between iPods and not actually sent as files? Yes, I agree that would be pointless. I'm talking about sending ANY type of file between iPods.
I was making two points.
1. If you mean to send the actual music files, sending music files back and forth won't cut it with the record companies.
2. Otherwise, "if" you had actually meant to share the files as you currently can via rendevous, that doing so on an iPod would be, well, asinine, for the obvious reason of taxing the iPod to the extreme, assuming it's serving to three people at the same time. Talk about low battery life.
Now, the sharing "any" files part of course is fine, we're back to the good old Newton, beaming files back and forth.
verbalvoodoo, I used a Newton. I own a Newton. Newton was a favorite tool of mine. verbalvoodoo, iPod is no Newton. :D
So yeah, gimme that which you describe, as Newton 2 and we'll all be happy.
That is an excellent point!
BUT - if Apple were smart and simply left out the cumbersome cell phone part AND let the keyboard by attachable/detachable -- it would still be the exact same size as an iPod.
Wel, granted it might be slightly larger to accomodate the wi-fi equip, but the increase in saize would be very slight.
The Blackberry iPod would NOT have a phone and the keyboard would NOT be built in. It would essentially be the same size and have all the functionality of a Blackberry.
Hey, I'm with ya that Apple could make a neat gadget.
But the iPod need not be the road we trample on to get there.
Thing about a Blackberry is that it needs the cell guts to send the messages you're typing (I assume, having never owned one), unless you only intend to type in wi-fi zones and via bluetooth to nearby users. A small world that will be.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 11:15
Otherwise, "if" you had actually meant to share the files as you currently can via rendevous, that doing so on an iPod would be, well, asinine, for the obvious reason of taxing the iPod to the extreme, assuming it's serving to three people at the same time. Talk about low battery life.
I assumed you'd only be able to transmit one file to one iPod at a time - not to 3 or more iPods at the same time. By keeping it simple (one iPod transferring one file to another ipod at one time) I don't think this would be a huge technical barrier or instantly drain the battery of both iPods. However I could be wrong.
What would be the actually battery drain for transmitting a single WORD doc (125k) file from one iPod wi-fi to another?
Plus - I suppose you'd also have the option of NOT constantly transferring files wirelessly every sec your wi-fi iPod is switched on. But it would be a nice feature to have if you did want to do it once in awhile.
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 11:21
Thing about a Blackberry is that it needs the cell guts to send the messages you're typing (I assume, having never owned one), unless you only intend to type in wi-fi zones and via bluetooth to nearby users. A small world that will be.
I never thought of that!
Good point. Very good point!
But that problem could again be easily solved by making the wi-fi section an attachment.
Some days you just want you MPS playing iPod. Other days, like business trips or such, you bring along yur iPod wi-fi attachment and mini-keyboard. Maybe make the Bluetooth portion an attachment too.
Interesting. I don't see why that would be tehcnically impossible or even impractical.
If everything was an attachment - the iPod itself could remain exactly the same.
Instead of changing the iPod we merely add to it, expand it.
StevesMom
2005-01-08, 11:22
Far more likely is you'll be able to multicast what you're currently listening to within a limited area to a reasonable number of iPods. Thus you can listen in to what the guy a few seats up on your bus is listening to. Then you'd be able to store ITMS links to tracks you like and on your next sync iTunes will pre-fill your ITMS shopping basket with those tracks. Plenty of possible functionality remains on top of that, if you think about it (ratings, public playlists, etc etc). Of course this only works when a device reaches ubiquitous penetration which at least in the iPod's case is fairly assured.
I can see the record companies loving this functionality, and users too. Just my $0.02 :)
Sharing music from iPod to iPod is really no different then if I made a tape of a CD and gave it to someone else. That is pefectly legal and so would this.:lol: I think someone's been drinking a little too much of the pirates' grog.
Seems to me that with the overwhelming popularity of Blackberry's and small IM'ing devices that a wi-fi enabled iPod would be perfect - just like a blackberry expect with a 20 gig hard drive.You do realize, of course, that the Blackberry uses a relatively tiny amount of bandwidth compared to something more suitable like 802.11 and that adding IM capabilities would obfuscate the iPod's interface and turn it into a wholly different device, right?
If you suggest Bluetooth for local transfers, though, keep in mind that it is barely good enough for streaming low-bitrate files and would be downright a pain for actually transferring moderate to large files. 802.11 would be suitable but would suck way too much power.
Three reasons a wireless iPod wouldn't work:
1. WiFi takes too much battery life
2. Bluetooth is too damn slow
3. The RIAA would go apeshit
By the way, welcome verbalvoodoo. Don't let us pop yer bubble, we're just pros at it. :D
Actually, I don't think a WiFiPod would be impossible. It might cut into the battery life so you'd have to have an easy to access switch to only turn it on when you wanted to. There could also be a Rendezvous-style listen mode to find other people with iPods within range. Perhaps they could also implement their own wireless technology, one more suited to short range P2P connections.
Also, if the iPod does get wireless, it would have to be for streaming only. There would be a menu item in the "Browse" menu called "Shared playlists" and you'd go in and have access to other people's music libraries. Go out of range, and POOF! they're gone. It absolutely wouldn't go down if Apple let you just transfer songs. But given the immense popularity of the iPod, I don't think a wireless feature for sharing on the go with other iPod users would be a bad idea. People seem to really like that and would see it as a cool feature. Imagine how many teenage girls would get into it!
Imagine the car accidents, as you race and tailgate to keep up with your favorite song the guy ahead of you is broadcasting :D
Ok that doesn't happen much yet with iTrip but... ;)
Dunno, if Girl A is listening to Girl B's iPod and Girl B is listening to Girl A's iPod, maybe they should JUST SWITCH FRIGGING IPODS. :D:D:D
;)
It's a cool idea verbalvoodoo, in fact you might want to read Cory Doctorow's Eastern Standard Tribe.
You walk around, and your iPod automatically peers with nearby iPods.
It grabs the current song on someone else's iPod and starts playing it. You listen to it.
If you don't hit the fast-forward button, your iPod grabs everything it can from the peer, all the music on the iPod, and cues it up for continued play.
Once that pool is exhausted, it queries your peer for a list of its peers - the iPods that it's getting its music from - and sees if any of them are in range, and downloads from them.
So, it's like you're exploring a taste-network, doing an automated, guided search of your environment for the iPod whose owner has collected the music you most want to listen to.
Of course Apple has been in bed with the RIAA for a while now, so it's not going to happen.
* most of this post plagiarised from Eastern Standard Tribe
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 11:53
These are all good arguements against - except one small problem:
The photo iPod.
If we're arguing that a wi-fi or Blackberry-like iPod would be impractical - then how the heck do we account for the Photo iPod?
Just kidding. Sort of.
But really - who was actually demanding a photo iPod? What good does it really do anyone? Just doesn't seem like there was a huge demand by, well, anybody to carry around 1,000 pics on their iPods.
Anyway - you guys made some great points I hadn't thought of.
Okay - forget a wi-fi iPod. But what if they did allow an adapter that allowed you to view your ipod on ANY CTR and created a mini keyboard AND software that would allow you to put whatever operating system you wanted on your iPod?
Wouldn't that make it a sub $300 PC? Imagine a LINUX or Mac OS iPod for $300 or less?
You can already run Linux on your iPod - and there is no way 3rd party operating systems - even installing them - will ever be supported by Apple.
The ability to add applications and plug in a keyboard would be adding PDA capabilities to the iPod, like what happened with mobile phones.
The ability to plug in a keyboard, mouse and monitor and run Mac OS X on an iPod... that's where an iPod stops being an iPod. That's a Mac you are talking about, you can already buy them - probably for $500 without monitor from Tuesday. Besides, the iPod doesn't have the processing power or memory to run a desktop OS and indeed has a completely different architecture from the Mac. It's closer to a Windows-based PocketPC than a Mac.
Verbal, you started this thread asking if it had any truth to the rumor. Seems like, from your post that, you're the one starting the rumor.
Steve has said iPod will always be about the music. and from my point of view, adding these features would focus on too much outside of YOUR music. It would focus on other people's.
As for the blackberry/internet feature... It would be way too complex for the average iPod user. Setting up what wifi station to connect to, WEP keys, no mouse, no simple keyboard (an add on keyboard would take away from the iPod compact design, and make it ugly.), and finaly. Where would people use it? Walking down the street? Subway? (Not many wifi spots that are city wide.) Some may say in starbucks or at home with your own Wifi network. If there is a computer 10 feet away from you, would you want to use a 2 inch keyboard and screen to check your e-mails 2 sentences at a time?
Sorry, but to me this idea would go against a lot of things iPod stands for. But then again, I just joined yesterday. :)
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 15:17
Verbal, you started this thread asking if it had any truth to the rumor. Seems like, from your post that, you're the one starting the rumor.
Actually, I GOOGLED "wirless iPod" and there is a lot of buzz surrounding it - which is when I decided to ask those (like you guys) who are in the know.
Check out these wireless iPod articles:
Apple Insider "Wireless iPod story"
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=745
Patent for wireless iPod turns up
http://www.engadget.com/entry/3353604371425572/
Wanna here something really interesting? According to this article the "wireless iPod" has already been created by hackers using existing tech!
Grassroots hackers create file-swapping wireless iPod
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/10/wireless_ipod/
verbalvoodoo
2005-01-08, 15:25
Actually, this article says that Motorala and Apple have created a kind of hybrid iPod cell phone - which sounds an awful lot like a wi-fi iPod.
http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/1234000963026479/
Yeah, that's not new. Apple announced a while ago that they were working on a mobile version of iTunes for Motorola cell phones.
I guess there are all these rumors of the iPod moving beyond simply hard drive storage. Wireless P2P listening (a la Rendezvous in iTunes) and satellite radio access are both being kicked around. I have no idea of their validity, though. Unlike some of the rumors, these ones seem to have developed out of thin air rather than being a direct result of an article that was written from solid evidence.
It would be cool if you could connect to shared iTunes playlists also.
youpeoplescareme
2005-06-30, 17:34
i want an ipod that plays MUSIC if you want something that you can send messages and have music on get a friggin pocket pc or whatever theyre called there is no need for an mp3 player to have text messaging or wireless sharing - i bought the music i dont want the guy sitting behind me at the movies or on the bus or somewhere stealing my music w/o me knowing- i dont see whats so great about carrying pics on the ipods are i mean its an mp3 player not a computer i mean come on people :no:
toneloco28
2005-06-30, 18:26
i want an ipod that plays MUSIC if you want something that you can send messages and have music on get a friggin pocket pc or whatever theyre called there is no need for an mp3 player to have text messaging or wireless sharing - i bought the music i dont want the guy sitting behind me at the movies or on the bus or somewhere stealing my music w/o me knowing- i dont see whats so great about carrying pics on the ipods are i mean its an mp3 player not a computer i mean come on people :no:
People like you kill me. Why is it that you assume since u see no redeeming value in innovating a product, that everyone else ought to do the same? Furthermore; since when was it ever explicitly stated that the "iPod" was exclusively a music device. By it's nomenclature alone, it seems to suggest it was intended to evolve as better technology became available. I know that primarily, it is and always will be a music device, but to stifle innovation for no reason is backwards. Technology in general is moving toward convergence, and the fewer things i I have to carry in my pocket, the better.
Just imho.. :)
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