View Full Version : Another camcorder advice thread
My wife wants to record art lessons to put up on Youtube, so we need to get a camcorder. We're new to this, so we're not sure exactly what we need. I'm thinking we'll probably want to be able to record at 720p (or higher), and it's got to be easy to use with a Mac. Her primary concern would be colour/image quality. Things like how good stills are don't matter worth a damn. I think that hard drive or flash storage might be easiest, but she is willing to put up with tapes. Things like image stabilization would be nice, but it's probably going to spend most of it's time on a tripod.
She's looking to spend as little as possible - this thing isn't going to be used in extreme conditions or anything (poor lighting, exposure to the elements, etc.), but she is willing to pay up to $1000 CAD (probably about $700 USD once you put in the exchange rate and overcharging for Canadians) if it's going to make a difference.
Any suggestions? Particular models, features, etc.?
Thanks!
Dorian Gray
2009-05-04, 12:09
I'd be interested to hear answers to this too. Seems like 3-chip Standard Definition camcorders have gone the way of dodo, and I wonder why that is.
The tripod is a very good idea, because shaky videos and YouTube's compression don't go together at all! The second thing that typically annoys me about YouTube videos is sound quality. Have you thought of getting something like a Zoom H2 (http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/index.php) for good sound and spending less on the camera? Seems like you should be able to get pretty good video for way less than $700, though the 720p requirement might change that.
Hope someone who knows about this stuff replies.
I'm looking too. I even thought of starting a thread. My aging MiniDV Canon has done well, but it outdated. I'm thinking flash based, but not sure what would be a good one. I have always liked Canon's products and so I'm leaning to them for the HD one.
Where I work we've got a Kodak camcorder that'll shoot 720p and is only $250, but this seems like it'd be in the crap category for anything other than a teen putting bong parties on YouTube.
I'm thining something like the Vixia HF20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=17995) Thing is, I don't know what I'm' looking for other than HD and flash based.
Sound isn't a major issue because I've got really nice audio equipment for recording my music that she can use. If she ever wanted to do something mobile, we'd probably go with our MBP and my mics. Those are nice looing devices though, Dorian.
I think the key features would be: great colour reproduction and sharp images in good lighting conditions (we don't care about low light), at least 720p resolution, and easy to use with iMovie. I've heard rumors that Canon's do the latter pretty well, but that Sony's can be really poor in this area.
She's been looking at the Vixia line. That might be the direction she goes...
I'm thining something like the Vixia HF20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=17995) Thing is, I don't know what I'm' looking for other than HD and flash based.
Seems all the Novaians are looking for HD cameras. That Vixia seems like a pretty solid HD camera for a quality price. It's got a 3.5 mic input which I assume is pretty standard these days, but I'm wondering if there is anything out there on the consumer level that has direct audio input from an audio board.
In my experience (and also from reviews I've read) the Vixias are very good choices and they're also very popular, so you should be able to find them under MSRP, especially if you buy the "old" models (new models are hitting in June, I think).
In my experience (and also from reviews I've read) the Vixias are very good choices and they're also very popular, so you should be able to find them under MSRP, especially if you buy the "old" models (new models are hitting in June, I think).
Awesome - we love buying the just replaced models for a steal!
Thanks for the advice and heads-up Robo!
I also might be in the market for an HD camcorder and in my preliminary research have found that if you want to easily edit footage using iMovie the best way to go is MiniDV. Have you decided whether you're going with a flash memory or MiniDV camcorder? The reason I don't mention HDD is because most people think its being phased out and flash will eventually prevail.
Don't know too much about the technical stuff but my understanding is that flash memory camcorders record in AVCHD, a highly compressed format. So when you import it into iMovie it needs to transcode the files to AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) which can take longer than importing DV video, and then the file sizes explode.
I dunno, AVCHD just seems problematic from what I've been reading. Of course maybe the people complaining about the difficulty of editing AVCHD just don't know what they're doing. If anybody that knows more about this can give a better explanation than my in-a-nutshell attempt that'd be great :D
Seems all the Novaians are looking for HD cameras. That Vixia seems like a pretty solid HD camera for a quality price. It's got a 3.5 mic input which I assume is pretty standard these days, but I'm wondering if there is anything out there on the consumer level that has direct audio input from an audio board.
You can use an transforming barrel adapter to get a line level into the mic port of a camcorder, but it's clumsy and puts stress on the jack.
Not cheap, but if you're serious about sound with a camcorder I would pick up a Beachtek audio box. (http://www.thebroadcastshop.com/sales/detail.asp?partno=DXA-4&aid=froogle) It mounts between the camera and the tripod (or can be threaded directly into the camera for handheld use) and gives you stereo XLR mic inputs plus line plus good quality, quiet trim so you can make the most out of those cheap camcorder input preamps.
Using a real mic properly positioned makes all the difference.
Costco here has a Canon Vixia HF10 for $550. The MSRP on Canon's site is $999.
(Note that this is the HF10 and not the HF S10.) I'm not sure what the differences are, but in reading the specs on the HF10 - it seems like a very nice camera. It has 16GB internal Flash, with an SDHC slot for external flash. That seems way better than Tape or HDD to me.
Dorian Gray
2009-05-05, 13:43
Sounds like you're all sorted for audio, Swox. I still don't think you need to spend close to $700 to shoot great video for YouTube on a tripod, but I could be wrong. Also, do you really need 720p? I have a feeling that you could save a fortune by settling for a good Standard Definition camcorder, as everyone wants HD so the manufacturers charge accordingly. Also, have you or your wife got enough CPU oomph and hard disk space to deal with HD on a regular basis?
I agree with Meli that AVCHD seems like a total mess from what little I've read about it. There doesn't seem to be much software that works with AVCHD natively, so you need to do a time-consuming (and often problematic) transocde before you can even begin editing. MiniDV just works with iMovie and most other editing suites. Maybe pscates2.0 knows something about this.
Putting a hard disk in a camcorder is also a disaster waiting to happen. I don't see the point at all: give me tape or flash memory, preferably flash memory cards of one kind or another. However, tape seems smarter as you can natively edit the DV but not AVCHD (or H.264 or whatever else is being used).
Anyone know where I should go to learn about this stuff?
Anyone know where I should go to learn about this stuff?
Just stop by any Best Buy and one of their highly skilled sales associates will get you up to speed.
;)
Not cheap, but if you're serious about sound with a camcorder I would pick up a Beachtek audio box. (http://www.thebroadcastshop.com/sales/detail.asp?partno=DXA-4&aid=froogle) It mounts between the camera and the tripod (or can be threaded directly into the camera for handheld use) and gives you stereo XLR mic inputs plus line plus good quality, quiet trim so you can make the most out of those cheap camcorder input preamps.
That looks like a great option. Do you have experience with this? Is there any quality loss between the board and the final video or does this thing handle the transfer pretty well?
Thanks to every for the clarification on the AVCHD format. That is news to me and will help factor in on the buying decision.
Works really well. You have to be careful to balance your input levels against the typically not great noise floor of the camcorder input, on the one hand, and horrific distortion on the other.
But with a little trial and error and a good mic you can get pretty clean audio straight onto tape (or whatever the actual medium is).
Dorian Gray
2009-05-08, 12:18
Just stop by any Best Buy and one of their highly skilled sales associates will get you up to speed.
That would be FNAC where I am. In all honesty they (or the Best Buy associates) probably know more than I do about camcorders, so your suggestion might not be as silly as you think. :p
Thanks to every for the clarification on the AVCHD format. That is news to me and will help factor in on the buying decision.
I wouldn't throw out AVCHD based on a few comments here (certainly not mine!). There must be a reason why the companies are moving to this. I'd like to find out why, though.
Also, have you or your wife got enough CPU oomph and hard disk space to deal with HD on a regular basis?
My wife's got a MBP with a 2.4ghz C2D in it - will that do? I think I may be getting a new MBP this summer too - would that do it if hers can't?
Dorian Gray
2009-05-08, 12:19
My wife's got a MBP with a 2.4ghz C2D in it - will that do? I think I may be getting a new MBP this summer too - would that do it if hers can't?
Well, if it can't, I don't know what would! :) Disk space might still be an issue depending on how often she will record the lessons.
Well, since my MBP has been deemed obsolete by Apple already (no new Java for CD computers), I wasn't sure if her 1.5 year old computer would be supported!
We have lots of external backup space, so we'd be moving any raw footage over there, maybe even editing from there as well (she has a big FW400 drive).
I'm also not suggesting you rule out AVCHD, as I'm considering the format as well ;). I'm just not sure if the goods outweigh the bads yet.
A MBP is fine. As long as you have an Intel based Mac you're good.
Any indications that Apple's going to start supporting this format natively and/or better?
Based on reviews, YouTube example videos, and suggestions here, I'm going with the Vixia HF S10. Pretty exciting actually. It's for our office but I'll be able to use it extensively with what I do. We'll be going with an audio box similar to the one suggested by addabox to get quality sound from our board. Thanks guys!
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