PowerBook G5 AND iBook G5, together...what are the chances?

[psmith2.0]

I'm seriously asking.

1. Apple's putting their eggs in the G5 basket, it seems. The whole 64-bit thing, approaching Tiger, etc.

2. If they can cram a G5 into three fairly thin, sleek PowerBooks (we know Apple isn't going to go back to thick, bulky PowerBooks), couldn't they include lower-clocked ones into the thicker, less sleek iBooks (even a redesigned one)?

3. The iBook, in its current form, is getting REALLY dated. Still gorgeous and all, but it's been, what, four years almost in the white Chiclet design? Is it ever going to change? And accompanying that change, a brand new design and a G5 under the hood.

The two models would be differentiated - as usual - by clockspeed, hard drive, optical drive choices, built-in AirPort/Bluetooth, FireWire 800 vs. 400, DVI, spanning, PC slot, lighted keyboards, different bus and RAM specs, etc.

If the iBook could have a 1.6GHz G5, 4200 (or 5400) rpm drives, FireWire 400, no spanning, no PC slot, no lighted keyboards, SuperDrive BTO, etc.

vs.

The PowerBook (all three models) having 1.8-2.0GHz G5, stock 5400 (or 7200?) rpm drives, SuperDrives across the board, FireWire 800, PC slot, built in AirPort and Bluetooth, lighted keyboard, higher RAM capacity, etc.

...would that make enough of a distinction? It's just like now, actually. Except they'd both sport a G5, and looking to the future.

Economically, is this possible? I'm asking. The iMac certainly went down in price when it went to a G5, so would the same hold true for the same thing happening to the iBook? I mean, it shouldn't go UP, should it? If so, why?

Could this happen? I'm not being weird or trying to stir any pots and I'm not trying to be a blatant bonehead. I'm just thinking, honestly, of items 1-3 above and wondering what the chances might be.

If 2003 was the Year of the Notebook, 2004 was the Year the Notebooks Kinda Sat There, Pissing People Off. What if 2005 was more like 2003 (but really meant it, this time)? Could this be a WWDC or Paris happening?

[thegeek]

I'm kinda depressed right now because I'm going to have to wait yet longer for a new PowerBook so my answer is that they'll probably start underclocking them real soon.

Party like it's 2002, man!

[ryguy777@frontiernet.net]

[QUOTE=pscates2.0]I'm seriously asking.

If the iBook could have a 1.6GHz G5, 4200 (or 5400) rpm drives, FireWire 400, no spanning, no PC slot, no lighted keyboards, SuperDrive BTO, etc.

vs.

The PowerBook (all three models) having 1.8-2.0GHz G5, stock 5400 (or 7200?) rpm drives, SuperDrives across the board, FireWire 800, PC slot, built in AirPort and Bluetooth, lighted keyboard, higher RAM capacity, etc.
QUOTE]


Your reasoning is really off, man.

First of all, Apple can't cram a 2.0GHz G5 into a 2" thick iMac...
What makes you think they can fit it into a powerbook??

Maybe they could if they priced it at $3000,
But I there's no way they could fit a 1.6 G5 into an ibook under $2000
(And that's a stretch)

You really expect apple to fit a G5 into a 1" enclosure while sticking to their $1000 starting point??? Yeh, right.

Then, if Apple's going completely G5 why didn't they just put it into the new Mac mini?

Yes, someday Apple will migrate to 64bit completely, but it won't be soon...
January of next year at the earliest. And I'm thinking middle of next year...

You might be right, but I don't think the technology is there yet...
I really doubt Apple putting G5's in the ibooks and powerbooks at the same time...

[thequicksilver]

I don't see it happening to be honest Paul. Many observers have criticised Apple for having too little distance between the iBook G4s and the recent iterations of Powerbook, and continuing this once the Powerbook G5 seems illogical for Apple as a company and for consumers.

I agree it's time for a revamp of the iBook design-wise, but I'd bank that it will stay G4 (or at least sub-G5) for a good while after the Powerbook goes G5. There's decent precedent in this with the amount of time the G3 was in the iBook; two and a half years after the Powerbook went G4 IIRC.

The sooner the Powerbooks go G5 the better - they look ridiculously overpriced now in comparison to the Mac mini. A slower 12" Powerbook is over three times the price of the mini. I know it's not quite comparing apples to apples, but the name Powerbook is looking more than a little desperate right now. Serious updates are needed.

[psmith2.0]

Your reasoning is really off, man.

First of all, Apple can't cram a 2.0GHz G5 into a 2" thick iMac...
What makes you think they can fit it into a powerbook??


1. I didn't say TODAY, or next week, did I?

2. When it DOES occur (PowerBook getting a G5), the iMac G5 will be 9-12 (or more) months old, so the iMac G5 might be a 1.8 and 2.0GHz by then. A PowerBook could sit at 1.8GHz (perhaps I was unrealistic with the 2.0).

3. Going from a G3 to a G4 didn't have a horrible effect on the iBook's price. Putting a G4 in there didn't jack them up $200-400 dollars did it?

Are there not lower-power, lower-heat and more battery-efficient versions of the G5 coming? At some point? Or is 1.6-2.5 where we're gonna permanently top out? Nothing cooler (literally), faster and more efficient in the pipeline?

Let's put numbers and timeframes aside for one second so no one blows a gasket and veers the thread off on that tangent: when they get a G5 into a machine as sleek and thin as the PowerBook, couldn't they put a lower-speed version into a slightly thicker, not-as-sleek product like the iBook (making for a really cool day in Mac history if nothing else).

That's the crux of what I'm trying to say: once they conquer the "G5 in a PowerBook" problem, do you think they'll have the iBook stay at a G4 for another year or so, or quickly move to get it to a G5 as well? Or will the iBook stay behind a bit, in much the same way it was Apple's sole G3 offering, long after the entire line-up was using G4s?

[Quagmire]

Pscates,

You were not over exaggerating with the 2 Ghz speed. IBM is planning to have its low power G5 ship this half of '05. With speeds up to 2 Ghz. According to ts. I see if Powerbooks don't get updated in the next 3 weeks after MWSF, I see there might be a problem with the 7447B or apple won't upgrade the Powerbooks intill the G5 pbook is ready to be in a 1" enclosure. Wasn't the pbooks went stale for over a year when they made the jump from G3 to G4? It has happened and might happen again.


ryguy777@frontiernet.net,

So you think we will never see a Powerbook G5 without being thicker? Didn't all of us think the G4 was too hot for the Powerbooks when the G4 was out and it would never come to a laptop? Well we saw them and at a 1" enclosure. We will see a G5 in an 1" enclosure some time or later.


As for the ibooks, they need a redesign desperately. I think we will see an ibook G5 around WWDC '06 to Paris '06 with the redesign.

[Moogs]

To answer the thread title, less than 1 in 10 IMO. There's a need for product differentiation when targeting specific markets, as all manufacturers do. Right now there's very little compelling reason to even buy a PowerBook, because there is so little differentiation / value to be had for the extra cost. Especially given how much more fragile they are compared to the iBooks.

While the iBook may get a nice face lift and some extras it doesn't have now, it will remain a G4 for at least a year after the PB goes G5 IMO.

[adam_tj]

Hopefully, Apple will have the 970 in PowerBooks this year. I say WWDC 06' for iBooks. Complete redesign would be nice since theyve dragged the same style across 2 major processors already. (Not to say the current case doesnt look great)

[defaultmike]

Man, after what Apple's CFO said
http://www.themacobserver.com/article/2005/01/12.14.shtml

I'm not gonna hold my breath for a G5 Powerbook. I'm hoping that in the next 3 months we see a new G4 chip (I'd hope for at least 1.8) with faster FSB in the Powerbooks. Or maybe Dual core chips on powerbooks (speeds going from 1.6-1.8) and the ibook on 1.4 1.6 single core. And people bitch about differentiating the powerBooks from the iBooks... well, how about diferentiating powerbooks from a certain tiny $500 computer?

I mean, of course processor speed and FSB aren't all that differentiate a computer (there is the GPU which is superior in the powerbooks then in the Mac Mini and iBook... but still... that's not enough.

Well, back to topic :P ...
I can see what pscates is saying. I could definitely understand if apple put a 2.0-2.3 G5 in the powerbooks (I figure by the time they figure out how to put a G5 in there, it'll be past 3.0s in the towers) and then putting a 1.6 in the iBooks. That along with a faster GPU, higher rez screen and a few other things, would do the trick.

I think this actually would be a really smart move instead of remaining with a G4 and G5...

[oldmacfan]

What I heard today was the best news...

During the conference call the rep from Apple made the "mother of all thermal challenges" comment.

Apple just released the Mac Mini... Tell me that wasn't a thermal challenge. We can call that the "young mother of all thermal challenges".

Apple, IMHO, will conquer the "mother of all thermal challenges" and will do it this year.

Then they will climb up the press bandwagon and yell.

As for my interpretation of the way the quote was made, it was as if he was trying to convince us that Apple wasn't working on this, as if he was trying extra hard to put it out of our minds and convince the people on the edge to jump in and buy one now.

[psmith2.0]

What's funny is all the numbnuts who've waited since June 2003 to buy a PowerBook G5.

"Ooh, they got the G5 out...just a matter of time before it's in a PowerBook!"

:rolleyes:

Tick tock, tick tock...

The only thing sillier than a Spec Whore is the Perpetual Waiter. Similar to the legendary Spec Whore, in that they're never satisfied and always on the hunt.

"It's coming, it's coming...I'm gonna wait until the Paris Expo...".

"Paris Expo was just last week, idiot."

"Yeah, but I think I can hold out 11 more months...my Quadra 650 actually runs Panther pretty well, if you smoke a joint beforehand, tilt your head and squint real hard".

:p

[Robo]

I can see what you're saying, Paul...

I guess it just depends on how soon we'd be seeing the G5 ready for Powerbooks. If it's, like, April or something, then no, I really don't think we'll see an iBook G5 too. But if it's WWDC or Paris, then...idunno. In any case, I don't think the iBook will take as long to go G5 as it did to go G4...but who knows.

That would be the most awesome day in Mac history, though. I mean, picture a huge PBG5 introduction keynote, and then the iBooks as "just one more thing" ("You couldn't expect us to just leave our consumer notebooks alone, could you?") - that's big. Even bigger then yesterday - a day that will be forever known as "The Day Apple Products Stopped Being So Damn Expensive." :D

And yes, I remember how everybody was saying that the G4 would never get in a portable. Ha! In fact, I'm reminded of that every time somebody on these boards thinks the G5 will never be portable.

[Bucolic Old Sir Henry]

In fact, Oppenheimer's comment in the conference call provides us with a rough date for the introduction of the PB G5. Read the last paragraph of AppleInsider's (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=837) piece. Three months ago he was was promising that Apple wouldn't be competing in the sub-$800 PC market. That would suggest the PB G5 will be ready to launch by Easter.*

After all, you can't expect the CFO to be on top of product development in every sector, can you?

Pip pip!

* IBM is supposed to be sampling low power chips now. Morpheus?

[Satchmo]

If the iBook could have a 1.6GHz G5, 4200 (or 5400) rpm drives, FireWire 400, no spanning, no PC slot, no lighted keyboards, SuperDrive BTO, etc.


A G5 iBook would be nice..but frankly I'd be happy if they simply brought it in touch with real world uses and provide true spanning (no hack required)!
Most PC laptops (even low end ones) allow this.

So if the PB does eventually get a G5 1.8 or 2.0, I could live with a tricked up iBook G4 running at 1.67 and 1.5 speeds. Give it a decent video card and bus.
As far as design...tough call...yes it's been a while but it still looks pretty sweet. Maybe it's simply adding a touch of aluminum (like the mini Mac)...although I've never been a fan of two tone coloured designs.
:)

[adam_tj]

Id like to see models in the iPod Mini Style @ WWDC 2006

1.5gHz
2 RAM Slots w/ 1 512 preinstalled
80gb HD
DVD-RW
12.1 screen @ 1280x1024
$999

1.67ghz
2 RAm slots w/ 1gb preinstalled
100gb HD
DVD-RW
12.1 screen @ 1280x1024
$1199

[Baron Munchausen]

I wonder, just wonder, if they "solve it" by having a G5 in a Mac Mini-esque waistband/napsack domiciled enclosure mated with a diskless wireless K-D-M 'laptop' as a dumb terminal using remote desktop over wi-fi with flash memory instead of a boot drive (no moving parts)...

Just a thought...

[gyroscope]

Hello all, according to digitimes.com (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050114A7040.html) PowerBooks and iBooks G5 are coming. Q2 2005. Could it be PowerBook7,1 and 7,2? Any thought?

[ohara]

they could be wrong, but i like where this is going

[psmith2.0]

True genius is often not appreciated in its lifetime... :p

I just read that Digitimes thing myself, 10 minutes ago, and nearly fell off my chair. How funny!

Everyone's been talking/thinking only of the G5 PowerBook, but I certainly couldn't help but wonder if they can manage to put a G5 into a thin PowerBook, then they can certainly put a slightly slower, less powerful one in a thick iBook (appropriately "crippled", of course, to maintain distinction between the two product lines). Just makes sense to me. They can do enough things with drives, graphics cards, screens, I/O, RAM capacity, eye candy frills (lighted keyboards), etc. to solidly differentiate the two products...much like they do now.

Make the PowerBooks balls-out, no-compromise muscle. Make the iBooks totally respectable little performers for students and non-professionals (similar to the 1.6GHz iMac G5).

This Digitimes...this a trade journal or something? Are they known for MOSR-style smoke-blowing, or are they pretty dialed-in? What's the accuracy rating on this story, in everyone's opinion?

:eek:

If this story pans out, I'll expect an appropriate level of grovelling and a sincere acknowledgement of my greatness from a few of you above, particularly that ryguy777 fella...

;) :p

Wow...how cool would that be, G5-powered notebooks across the board!

[Wraven]

pscates2.0,
OR... you can expect to be contacted by Apple again. ;) YOU ARE THE LEAK!!!! hehe...

[psmith2.0]

Well, they never contacted me to begin with (on that other thing). They just had my name listed because I'd signed my drawing. They probably realized that was the extent of my role in it...I just drew a picture.

Anyone reading anything of mine knows I don't know anything at all. It's obvious how little I know about anything.

Uh, wait...there's a better way to say that...

:p

[Wraven]

I know, just messing with you. Awesome potential clairvoyance on this topic though. Good job.

[dsellers]

People are so stuck on the thermal issues of the G5 in the power book it’s not the top problem. I design computer boards for space applications (space, no air...) that issues can be fixed buy design of the PCB board and mounting with the case & possible cooling system and lowering the clock speed. The big issue is the power the chip needs the run in a laptop!

[ezkcdude]

The digitimes article was a typo. They mean to say G4. See other threads.

[morningstarrising]

No typo..

Taiwan contract manufacturers for Apple

iPod shuffle
Asustek
400k-500k/month
Available now

iPod/iPod Photo/iPod Mini
Inventec Appliances
Combined shipments of the three items totaled over 10 million units in 2004 and are expected to increase substantially in 2005.

iBook/iBook G5
Asustek
1.3-1.5 million/year (combined shipments of the two series)
iBook G5 to start shipping in 2Q 2005

PowerBook G5
Quanta Computer
30k-50k/month
2Q 2005

Mac mini
Foxconn
100k/month
Available Jan 22

[iRobot]

And remember folks.

We're in Apple's 2005 fiscal quarter 2, RIGHT NOW.

Which means WWDC is out of the question. Unless.... the production numbers represent the stockpile being prepared for the first shipment. Which is somewhat likely.

[psmith2.0]

I don't think it's a typo either. Or a mistake. I think it's coming. Summer.

Steve's gonna crap.

Poor guy can't have a secret kept secret...

:p

[iRobot]

Scates! Come on man, oh guru of the psychic mock-ups!

Summer isn't part of quarter '02! Spring is at the latest.

Assuming its not just a stockpile, which is still possible..

[morningstarrising]

Of course it's stockpile. Just look at the iPod Shuffle and Mac mini right now on Apple.com. Already sold out of the first shipment and people now have to wait 3-4 weeks for them to even get shipment#3(which should be done already, but need to get boxes and customs ready for them).

[CharlesS]

This Digitimes...this a trade journal or something? Are they known for MOSR-style smoke-blowing, or are they pretty dialed-in? What's the accuracy rating on this story, in everyone's opinion?
They are slightly less accurate than MOSR. I say slightly less because at least MOSR managed to get the Cube right, five years ago.

Example:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38549

That was in September 2003. Since then, here are some more rumors DigiTimes has put out:

iBox - AirPort-enabled TV tuner and video recorder: (http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=2912)

15.4-inch PowerBook (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031217112619.shtml)

Metallic iMac, and Apple-branded Tablet PC (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/12/20031210053615.shtml)

And a new one - Is the Apple brand being discarded? (http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/NewsSearch.asp?DocID=00000000000000000000000000002 716&query=APPLE), with the evidence being that the Apple logo appears face down if you stand the Mac mini on its side instead of laying it flat on the desk as intended (WTF?)

Has this site ever gotten anything right?

[BlueRabbit]

And a new one - Is the Apple brand being discarded? (http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/NewsSearch.asp?DocID=00000000000000000000000000002 716&query=APPLE), with the evidence being that the Apple logo appears face down if you stand the Mac mini on its side instead of laying it flat on the desk as intended (WTF?)
Well, the Apple logo was upside down on every PB/iBook until 2000 or so. This is nothing new. :p

[gyroscope]

I'm worried about their poor track record, but maybe the rumor could be verified by another source. No news from HAL ? :D