View Full Version : Mac Pro or 27" iMac?
I've been thinking about switching from a notebook to a desktop for a few months now. At first I though that I would get a 27" iMac, since they cost less than a Mac Pro by a fair margin. In some ways I get more computer for less money with the iMac, since the raw power of the Core i5 and i7 iMac's are actually equal or faster than the entry level quad core Mac Pro. Since the iMac has 4GB RAM, and it would only cost me $120 from a third party to make that 8GBs, and 1TB hard drive stock, I figured that would be a nice setup. Then I started to wonder if an iMac was really what I needed.
Over the last week or so I've starting to think that a Mac Pro might suite my needs better over the next few years, rather than an iMac, that I would want to upgrade every two years, but not be able to. Sure I could sell the iMac and buy a new one, but that is a bit of a pain and I'd like something I could stick with for 2-5 years at least. A few other reasons to go for the Mac Pro would be that I have a 22" matte LCD, and that I have a few external hard drives for my photos, backups and other stuff. I also know that at the rate I'm going, I'm doubling my data every 6 months or so. I'm going to be needing more externals in the not too distant future, and that could be problematic with an iMac. It would be nice to have my apps, and photos in the same tower, loaded and ready to go rather than swapping FW cables all the time to load the drive, or set of drives that I want to use. I'd also like to have Windows 7 for gaming loaded on a separate drive as well. I could continue to use a separate external drives for backups, even with the Mac Pro, since I already have three FW cases. I also wouldn't mind having the option to install an SSD as a boot drive sometime in the near future.
I know there are downsides to having the Mac Pro, such as it is more expensive in every way, and from my searches there are fewer choices in third party RAM upgrades, and I'd want to have at least 6GBs of RAM. At the same time I'm starting to wonder if, in the long term, that a Mac Pro would end up being a cheaper option? I could buy a new iMac today, without any trouble. If I buy a Mac Pro I'd wait till I get my tax money back in a month or so. Either way I'm not in a huge rush to make this decision. I'm looking to see if my rational for considering a Mac Pro over an iMac is sound or not, and that is about all.
Will you miss having a notebook? With the money you save going with the iMac you could probably buy an iPad or something.
If you plan on upgrading the iMac every two years or so you won't have to ever shell out $130 for an OS upgrade. You would also save money on iLife, assuming you're an iLifer.
I would definitely go for 8GB+ of RAM, in either case.
I would imagine that the Mac Pro costs so much more than the iMac that it would be more economical to get the iMac and upgrade more frequently than it would be to get the Mac Pro. Of course, it's more of a hassle, but Apple's migration tool should make it pretty easy. Also you'd get to use dual monitors (the iMac's built in monitor and your 22" external).
Are you not interested in a Hackintosh? You get as much or more upgradability than the Mac Pro and more power than the iMac for less money than either. But it does require a little more work on your part.
Is it 1981?
2010-03-10, 18:01
I'm going to be needing more externals in the not too distant future, and that could be problematic with an iMac. It would be nice to have my apps, and photos in the same tower, loaded and ready to go rather than swapping FW cables all the time to load the drive, or set of drives that I want to use.
I can't see how having several external HDDs would be less problematic on a Mac Pro than an iMac, unless I'm being spectacularly thick and missing the obvious.
If you'd like to upgrade every couple of years, it sounds like you're going to be pushing your Mac to its limits; in that case I'd say your rationale for a Mac Pro is pretty much spot on. Having said that, my iMac G4 was in near-daily use – mainly working with the Creative Suite – for seven years before being replaced by an iMac i7, but I'm not as much a POWER! user like you.
I can't see how having several external HDDs would be less problematic on a Mac Pro than an iMac, unless I'm being spectacularly thick and missing the obvious.
I think you're missing the obvious. A Mac Pro allows you to install several INTERNAL hard drives. No need for externals unless you want more than 4.
Is it 1981?
2010-03-10, 18:17
I think you're missing the obvious. A Mac Pro allows you to install several INTERNAL hard drives. No need for externals unless you want more than 4.
I'm aware of that, but...
I have a few external hard drives for my photos, backups and other stuff. [...] I'm going to be needing more externals in the not too distant future, and that could be problematic with an iMac. [...] I could continue to use a separate external drives for backups, even with the Mac Pro, since I already have three FW cases.
I don't see how a Mac Pro makes it easier to hook up several external FW drives at once? (This is a tangent to the thread, I know)
Will you miss having a notebook? With the money you save going with the iMac you could probably buy an iPad or something.
If you plan on upgrading the iMac every two years or so you won't have to ever shell out $130 for an OS upgrade. You would also save money on iLife, assuming you're an iLifer.
I would definitely go for 8GB+ of RAM, in either case.
My point is, if I had an iMac I would want upgrade more often, due to internal disk space. I don't use iLife apps at all, so that is not a factor in my choice. I have a touch for when I'm on the go, and will likely get an iPad next year, so I'm not worried about mobility. My MBP sits on my desk 95% of the time anyway, so I doubt I'd miss it.
I would imagine that the Mac Pro costs so much more than the iMac that it would be more economical to get the iMac and upgrade more frequently than it would be to get the Mac Pro. Of course, it's more of a hassle, but Apple's migration tool should make it pretty easy. Also you'd get to use dual monitors (the iMac's built in monitor and your 22" external).
Are you not interested in a Hackintosh? You get as much or more upgradability than the Mac Pro and more power than the iMac for less money than either. But it does require a little more work on your part.
I tried the Hackintosh route with my PC, which I just sold last week, way too much of a hassle to maintain and update software, not to mention very noisy. The point of going with a Mac Pro would be that I would upgrade less often, ever 3-4 years, rather than every other. I'm not worried about raw processing power, my 2.53Ghz MacBook Pro is fast enough for what I do 90% of the time. I'm more interested in having more internal hard drives for easier and faster data access. I really miss having that ability from when I had a Power Mac 4 tower. :(
I can't see how having several external HDDs would be less problematic on a Mac Pro than an iMac, unless I'm being spectacularly thick and missing the obvious.
If you'd like to upgrade every couple of years, it sounds like you're going to be pushing your Mac to its limits; in that case I'd say your rationale for a Mac Pro is pretty much spot on. Having said that, my iMac G4 was in near-daily use – mainly working with the Creative Suite – for seven years before being replaced by an iMac i7, but I'm not as much a POWER! user like you.
The reasons the Mac Pro would be better would that I would not need as many external drive, having four internal drives would be great. I'd only need one external with a Mac Pro rather than 5 or 6. For me the issue is expandability, I'd love to be able to add USB3 PCI-E cards, maybe a E-SATA card for faster than FW800 speed on external drives.
Also the Mac Pro has more FW and USB ports, which would be nice, since I'm always having to pull something out and switch, but the my MBP only has two USB ports.
Is it 1981?
2010-03-10, 18:25
Sorry, I took your post to mean that you wanted to hook up loads of externals to the MP...
No worries, my wording isn't always the best grammatically.
I tried the Hackintosh route with my PC, which I just sold last week, way too much of a hassle to maintain and update software, not to mention very noisy. The point of going with a Mac Pro would be that I would upgrade less often, ever 3-4 years, rather than every other. I'm not worried about raw processing power, my 2.53Ghz MacBook Pro is fast enough for what I do 90% of the time. I'm more interested in having more internal hard drives for easier and faster data access. I really miss having that ability from when I had a Power Mac 4 tower. :(
I completely understand wanting to reduce the level of hassle, but how would getting a Mac Pro instead of a Hackintosh allow you to upgrade less often? Is there something about Hackintoshes that you have to get new hardware components every two years instead of every 3-4? Especially if you don't need tons of processing power, it shouldn't be hard to build a Hackintosh that could easily last you four years. Especially these days since it seems processors aren't improving at the same rate they were in the past.
Back in the PPC days, Apple did a good job of optimizing OS X to run well on older G4s, but ever since the Intel switch they've been using basically the same guts you'd get in any PC.
Sorry, for the upgrading I meant, I would upgrade less often if I had the Mac Pro vs the iMac. In all honesty, I really tried to like a Hackintosh, but it was just way to much work. I was spending time that could be better used out taking photos, rather than trying to find the latest drivers to make sure my PC works with updates or new hardware I want to add. In this case, money is not the biggest factor in my choice. I am fully aware I can get more bang for my buck building a PC, but thanks. :)
I really sound like I'm trying to convince myself that Mac Pro is worth while, but I not heard any truly strong augments for me to get the iMac over the Mac Pro. To clarify, if I go with the iMac I would likely upgrade every 2 years, vs the Mac Pro, which I would likely hang onto for 3-4 years at least. The only really demanding software I use is Aperture 3, but that may not be the case in a year from now. I do not use iLife apps very much, they aren't even in the dock of my current machine, so the cost of that is not a factor. Mobility is covered by an iPod touch, and next year either an iPhone or iPad. I currently have separate drives for, backups, movies, and photos. I also would like Windows 7 on a separate drive than my OSX system, another reason to favor the Mac Pro over the iMac, where I would have no choice but to partition the internal hard drive.
Well, you kind of covered the main benefit of the iMac in your original post, which was cost.
There's also the bigger screen, and the ability to use your existing monitor in addition.
Personally, I would just buy for the needs you have now, or the needs you will have, for sure, in the immediate future. If you buy for all the needs you could possibly foreseeably have, you'd always end up with the Mac Pro. Everyone would.
But hey, I'm sure you'll be happy with any Mac you get. :D
Yeah, I know I'll be happy with whatever choice I make, which doesn't make the choice any easier! I realize either computer would be a step up in performance from what I have now, especially in the graphics card department. Guess one of the concerns I have with the iMac is that everything is built in, but then again I've never had a problem with any of my Apple notebooks, other than an old PowerBook G3 that died.
I've thought about the advantages of dual screens, but I figured I sell the screen, if I got the iMac. I can use dual screens with my MBP now, but I leave the lid closed unless, on the odd occasion I take it off my desk. I can always grab another 22" screen if I need more working space, they are so cheap these days. I am a little worried about the screen on the iMac, since my desk is facing an inside wall, that often gets direct sunlight coming in through a window behind me during the afternoon, and my MBP's screen gets tones of nasty reflections from that. I Know what the 27" iMac is like, my parents have one, so I know it can perform well, that is not an issue. Just looking at the configurations I would order, the price difference is $500, which in all honesty isn't that much in the long run.
I've been buying Apple's tower, whatever that may be, for years and years now. Clearly what works for one man does not work for all, but in every single iteration of Mac tower I've owned, from my Radius 81/110 through my G4 MDD, G5 2.7 and my current Mac Pro, I have utilized the extra expansion.
I've upgraded to more RAM, more hard drives, different hard drive, upgraded video cards, added various expansion cards, etc. I'm always going to do that sort of stuff, so I'm always going to get a tower, for the foreseeable future.
I also use the power for high end audio creation and simple video editing, stuff that actually uses the power. And when I bought my current Mac Pro I had my Dell 20" LCD. But last year I wanted a 24" so I got one. Obviously you can't do that with an iMac; though if you're starting with a 27" you can't go too much bigger anyway.
Not that you need a list of reasons to get a Mac Pro instead of an iMac, but more to just add more data to your survey, as it were. If you think at any time you're going to want to do more customization or exceed the limitations of the iMac, then go for the tower.
And then of course the prices of the upcoming new Mac Pros will probably help make your decision.
Expandability would be very welcome, as I noted before I have missed that option since switching to notebooks from a Power Mac G4 5 years ago, when I went to collage and having a notebook was in all honesty a requirement. I did have that in my PC, but I found having two machines to be a waste of money and keeping files synced between a Mac and PC was a pain.
Yup, if the new machines are as rumored with 6 cores, that would be a nice machine for long term use. I'd be fine even with a quad, but if the base US price stays the same, then the price here in Canada may fall, since the Canadian dollar is a little more competitive right now than when the last update was released. Since updates seem to be the only time Apple adjusts prices based on the exchange rate, if the updates do come next week that could be a good thing.
Thanks for all your thoughts everyone, I think I will be buying the base model Mac Pro, with 8GB RAM and HD4870 GPU as upgrades. I looked into getting third party RAM to upgrade the system, but found out I'd only save $44, and I'd rather have everything covered by Applecare, considering how much money I'm paying.
One thing that kind of bugs me is that Apple forces you to buy cards with DVI and mini-display port. The only option with dual DVI ports is the non-BTO Nvidia card on the Apple website. That isn't a big deal right now since I have one monitor, but if I ever do add a second one that could be an issue.
You can always get a mini-DP to DVI adapter. $30 from Apple, $8 from Monoprice.
I've got one, so that isn't a problem. The problem is, from what I've read on the Apple support forum is that people are having trouble calibrating the second display when using the mini display port on the graphics cards with the DVI/Mini Display Port both in use. As a photographer, that is a little troubling to say the least. That might be old news, and fixed, so I'll have to dig deeper.
Oh. That could be a problem.
Well, since you only have one monitor now, you could always just make sure your second monitor has a DisplayPort input. They do exist (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176098) outside of Apple products, though of course the selection isn't great (that was the only one on NewEgg with DP, but I'm sure there are others out there).
Yeah, I doubt it will be a problem for a while, since I'll likely only work with one monitor. I think I'll be steering clear of Apple monitors, the glass screens are troublesome in terms of reflections. I suspect we'll be seeing more, as I've read around on some PC forms that a growing number users really want mini-display port, and that some of the latest graphics cards from ATI, even on the windows side are now comping with mini-display port.
Oh yeah, last time I looked at graphics cards was months ago and even then a lot of them had display port outputs. Checking now, there are dozens of ATI video cards at every price point that have display port (not mini display port, but it's easy enough to convert).
In fact, a lot of them have 3-4 outputs. Usually either 2xDVI or 1xVGA + 1xDVI, and on top of that most have one Display Port and one HDMI as well. So you could have lots of monitors running at once! Although there are some restrictions with "active" vs. "passive" display port adapters, I'm not sure.
Yeah, display port is the future, which is nice to see. I am so sick and tired of those screws on VGA/DVI plugs.
I had the same discussion as we had here with my local Mac dealer yesterday. At first he recommended the iMac to me, but when I talked about how much data I'm using, just picked up another 1TB drive yesterday, which brings me to 6 external hard drives, he concluded that the Mac Pro might be the way to go. ;)
I'm really leaning towards the Mac Pro now, which is strange to say, because after the PM G4, I never thought I'd get another tower again. That being said, when I look at what I'll be doing for a living, having that kind of machine just makes sense. Once 4GB chip prices come down I'll likely load the Mac Pro up with 16GB of RAM, but I think 8GB will do for now. :) I know the iMac can also go up to 16GB of RAM, but I heard that once you go to 8GB+ of RAM, having ECC memory can really help with performance.
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