View Full Version : MC: Rail Transport
Fucking rails. How do they work?
Hopefully we can suss that out before we get a we get all octopi about it. :)
Firstly I think we need to decide on a central terminal in Bridgeport. As it is now we have the beginnings of one below the cobble stairs, but in looking at it I'm not sure if it'll be big enough. Also, I wonder if it shouldn't be skyway-level as to not have to create upward boosters for every long run.
http://www.greychristian.com/AN/mainstation.jpg
Maybe at the top of the stairs so we can still easily connect the Arena run and still have the stairway down to BP?
Figure it should be big enough to accommodate enough runs E&W, though I'm not sure how many that should be.
Myself, I'd like to build the Greyline somewhat like this:
http://www.greychristian.com/AN/greyline.jpg
I'll need to get clearance from a couple of people in order to build around existing structures, of course, but that brings me to the question of sub-stations as well. I plan on building a small sub-station at my place that could be used by Robo and arteggio if they desire to build lines out to their NW structures, but I wonder about how many sub-stations people are going to want. I don't plan on stopping the Greyline anywhere between BP and Flaming Mtn, but I can see where it may be wanted.
I *think* I'm going to build the line next to the skyway to take advantage of the existing lighting, but I'd like to hear other opinions on building below/above/whatever.
arteggio
2011-04-27, 10:58
I'm personally for sub-skyway rails, but that's just my double-decker preference. I'm not opposed to it being anywhere else around the skyway outside my areas, and beside-skyway would save on lighting.
Though in Bridgeport and the metro area there seem to be a lot of skyway off-ramps; I imagine building beside the skyway in this area would necessitate a lot of going around things.
I think I would appreciate a substation at Flaming Mountain, for heading out west. I was thinking that if you were opposed to a substation and another rail headed SW from BP to the Furronia area, I could just extend that out my way but that would miss the park I have out there. It would take me a while to bother building that track though. Perhaps you'll figure out a modular-sort of design so that you don't have to leave your station wide open until I'll for sure use it.
Maybe we could also set up a rail testing site somewhere, if that makes any sense, to try to get a grasp on this rail business. With the inclusion of power rails in 1.5 did the whole power-cart thing become much more simplified? In 6 months I never figured out how to use Bryson's booster station.
A train station in Bridgeport would be super keen. :D I was thinking about building one, as a medium-ish project, before I just decided to build the super huge project I really wanted to build first. I think any sort of skyway-level structure in Bridgeport would look really weird, though. At the very least, all the people near the structure would have to be okay with losing a big chunk of their view of the sky. :\
And since 709 is taking the grey line (:grumble: :D) and Rowdy has already called lime, I guess I'll stake my claim on orange for any eventual weretrain. If that's, you know, a thing we can do.
I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.
I saw some interesting youtube videos about using old-style booster tracks in conjunction with the new booster tracks that seem to work very well: the newer tracks work better in terms of reliability and switching, but the old boosters still have the edge on raw power.
I do think we should take a more wholistic approach to designing the system, though. Later today I'll break out the big map and rough in some east-west, south-north lines and a Bridgeport loop, maybe.
I'm hoping it won't be a monstrous structure or anything. Figure we need 6-8 lines east and west tops, so if that's a 1 block wide track with and extra block on the side for power, the starting track width at the station would be 12-16 blocks wide. Not huge, but if it looks like it may be an eyesore we could build it 2-stories and serve 3-4 tracks E/W per floor. Or something.
And since 709 is taking the grey line (:grumble: :D) and Rowdy has already called lime, I guess I'll stake my claim on orange for any eventual weretrain. If that's, you know, a thing we can do.You took #13 for a mailbox, so let's call it even. :p ;)
I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.I looked over there earlier today and thought it would be a good spot as well, but wasn't sure about the upward boosters. I'm all for that area if you and everyone else is.
I think we should build the rail station in the area between the Money Bin, Brad's Mansion and Castle Bryson - basically underneath the skyway and in the last remaining bit of forest in Bridgeport. I know we would need to boost to get up to the skyway, but I think that would be fun - kind of like a rollercoaster.
That's what I was thinking, but IIRC Brad said he had plans for that area. I do agree we should build it on the ground.
Wholistic approaches are good.
I'm hoping it won't be a monstrous structure or anything. Figure we need 6-8 lines east and west tops, so if that's a 1 block wide track with and extra block on the side for power, the track width would be 12-18 blocks wide. Not huge, but if it looks like it may be an eyesore we could build it 2-storys and serve 3-4 tracks E/W per floor. Or something.
I think a station on the ground would allow us to make a more elegant structure that actually felt like an interesting part of Bridgeport in its own right, like the airport, rather than a purely utilitarian hub. (I was interested in building a train station before I even knew Minecraft had trains.) We'd also have more room for any potential expansion, and there's also the possibility that some people might want to build tracks on or under the ground, crazy as it is. :D
You took #13 for a mailbox, so let's call it even. :p ;)
:D :D :D
If you want #13, we can switch. No, wait — I'll sell it to you for 13 slimeballs. :p
/ass
That's what I was thinking, but IIRC Brad said he had plans for that area.
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.
But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.
Lucky Brad with all the prime real estate. :D You could always just tell me what you want to build there and I could help you find another spot... ;) Besides, you totally owe me one secret now :p
But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?
If that's what I'm thinking of, 709 started by saying he didn't think it would be big enough, and I'd agree. It might be big enough if all we wanted was a hub for tracks, but if we wanted to build a train station that actually felt like part of the town, a la airport, I think we'd need more space, no?
But we don't want to take your spot. There's still space between my house and Old Towne, and that's at a skyway intersecton, not just an east-west skyway. Maybe that could be an okay place?
RowdyScot
2011-04-27, 12:56
I've said it before - we'd be better served by something akin to the Skytrain in Vancouver, which has lines that loop from a central station (and another connecting station on the newest line, aptly named Bridgeport) out to various suburbs, etc.
The downside to this is that we don't all get our own individual lines. The upside is that we don't have said individual lines making an absolute mess of a station with all sorts of things coming out every possible direction.
Bryson already knows the layout I mean, but here's a link for the rest of you. Linky (http://www.translink.ca/en/Schedules-and-Maps/Transit-Maps/SkyTrain-Station-Maps.aspx#map)
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.
But first, why not consider repurposing the existing monorail station in Bridgeport? You know, the one at the base of the skyway exit ramp?I gave my reservations earlier about the exiting station, so, why not spawn area? It would make sense.
I gave my reservations earlier about the exiting station, so, why not spawn area? It would make sense.
That's suddenly the most obvious location ever. :lol:
Before we start steaking out lines and colors, I think we should decide on some main routes with primary colors. If we all just connect lines of our choosing from our compounds to Grand Central in Bridgeport, we're going to end up with something even more discombobulated and inconsistent than our current skyway system.
The way I see it there are three main routes we need. To the east there's the N/S skyway which runs along Old Towne and connects to the Airport, my castle, the Skyscraper, Turtle's compound (both of them), and the Hosket Rink. There's a similar N/S route in the west which goes from the passive trap to the UFO. I think these should be the Blue and Red lines respectively. The route linking them through Bridgeport is possibly the most heavily traveled route on the map, I think we should call this the Purple Line, as it links the Red and the Blue. (Also, Purple is Pretty :)) It would be the main line connected to the "hub" in Bridgeport, and there would be shorter express routes which will probably pop up all around that area, given how densely populated it is. (For example, there should be an express line from the hub to the spawn. Not that this is a huge walk but that line should also probably extend to the grinder.)
If think if we put those routes in place, everyone will be relatively close to a main line, and they can connect up their own lines as they see fit. What we don't want is a Skytrain with a central hub in Bridgeport that radiates out willy-nilly, because then you have to go through Bridgeport whenever you want to go anywhere that's on a different line.
Also... I don't think we should use the Spawn as the central hub. Due to beds, I haven't spawned there in weeks. We should use Bridgeport, as I imagine it's the most common spawning location besides our beds in our distant compounds. The spawn is really only the spawn for new players, and they don't need to be hoppin' on the express line to the outer rim right when they show up.
Also, I say we double deck the skyways. I don't want to be staring at rock the whole time I'm riding the train, and if you put it underground you are sure to hit people's mines.
I initially thought of going underwater/underground. Believe it. But above or below it's just a matter of approval. Hopefully we work something out.
Sorry, I must have overlooked the mention about the existing BP station being too small. :) Roughly how big are you thinking in surface area?
Spawn area seems okay. Whereabouts the spawn are you thinking? It can't cover spawn directly because you can't build in the spawn protection area (around where the welcoming platform is) and because you don't want people spawning in or on top of the station itself. Maybe immediately east of spawn, between the skyway entry tower and the water dong? Or on the beach north of the tower (where the cake portal is currently located)?
I was thinking bbsky's island, if only for aesthetics.
arteggio
2011-04-27, 13:32
Or what about directly above the current station, either beside the staircase or maybe tucked a bit behind it, underneath the skyway. It's not a ground station, but I'm sure it could be done nicely.
I vote for Kraetos' layout: that would call for one line (Purple) running W-E, so the station could be pretty condensed, with only one train west and one train east.
Then, those of us away from BP can branch our lines of Red and Blue. I like this.
What we don't want is a Skytrain with a central hub in Bridgeport that radiates out willy-nilly, because then you have to go through Bridgeport whenever you want to go anywhere that's on a different line.
But that's if the spokes have no wheel. Say we lay it out as a box around Bridgeport with a + crossing Bridgeport in the middle, making a rough 2x2 grid. Three east/west tracks (north, Bridgeport, south) and three north/south tracks (east, Bridgeport, west). Or your
|—|
idea, with a sideways H laid on top of it. That would make six primary lines, and they could be Red, Yellow, Green, Blue, White, and Black. White and Black could be the routes that intersect in Bridgeport. (Purple wouldn't make as much sense if there was more than one route that connected Red and Blue.)
Also... I don't think we should use the Spawn as the central hub. Due to beds, I haven't spawned there in weeks. We should use Bridgeport, as I imagine it's the most common spawning location besides our beds in our distant compounds. The spawn is really only the spawn for new players, and they don't need to be hoppin' on the express line to the outer rim right when they show up.
Forgive me if my geography is all wrong, but isn't Bridgeport eventually going to grow closer to spawn? I'm not sure how much farther people are going to want to push into the east, it turns into a desert and runs into Old Towne and that gets farther and farther away from the post office.
But that's if the spokes have no wheel. Say we lay it out as a box around Bridgeport with a + crossing Bridgeport in the middle. Three east/west tracks (north, Bridgeport, south) and three north/south tracks (east, Bridgeport, west). Or your
|—|
idea, with a sideways H laid on top of it.
That was my original idea. A box with a cross. (Seriously, this is exactly what I originally came up with, with Yellow for the south edge, Green for the north, and Teal for the N/S cross.) But I think that it's needlessly complicated. Would the upper and lower E/W routes get used much at all? We can add them as necessary but the H is simple, and easily expandable. I think we should start as simple as possible and then only build additional routes as needed.
Also, I know Brad had plans for that space and I hate suggest we should take it, but that space really is perfect. Its elevated, it's right under what would be the purple line, and its right next to the skyway terminus. Building it near the spawn means building a whole lot of new skypassages, and I think that would be rather ugly to have so much crap in the air right near the spawn and the Capitol.
RowdyScot
2011-04-27, 13:45
You know what would be nice for planning? The whole world overhead map annotated with every known spot. We can decide what spots get stops and plan a system from that.
That was my original idea. A box with a cross. But I think that it's needlessly complicated. Would the upper and lower E/W routes get used much at all? We can add them as necessary but the H is simple, and easily expandable.
On a 2x2 grid, going straight across the top from one top corner (the UFO?) to the other (the hockey rink?) takes half as much time as going halfway down, then across, than back up. I think it's fairly inevitable that people are going to eventually be building things closer to due north and south of Bridgeport; we don't want to keep expanding the map and those rails would encourage us to use those parts of the map that we already have.
I'm not saying we have to build the additional three lines first, or anything, but I think we should allow for a future N/S-through-Bridgeport line in our station plans. At the very least, I don't think we should call the "bridging" line Purple, as if it'll always be the only one. (White would be my pick for the W/E line through Bridgeport. I mean, just look at the word: WhitE. And then Black could be the eventual corresponding N/S line.)
And yes, I'm overthinking this. But I'm a branding geek and a transit geek. Let me have my fun :D
On a 2x2 grid, going straight across the top from one top corner (the UFO?) to the other (the hockey rink?) takes half as much time as going halfway down, then across, than back up. I think it's fairly inevitable that people are going to eventually be building things closer to due north and south of Bridgeport; we don't want to keep expanding the map and those rails would encourage us to use those parts of the map that we already have.
Understandable. The problem I encountered with the outside W/E lines is that their placement isn't as obvious as the N/S lines. I think we should stick with the H and when it becomes necessary (because, I agree with you: it will) to build more E/W lines, we can.
I'm not saying we have to build the additional three lines first, or anything, but I think we should allow for a future N/S-through-Bridgeport line in our station plans. At the very least, I don't think we should call the "bridging" line Purple, as if it'll always be the only one. (White would be my pick for the W/E line through Bridgeport. I mean, just look at the word: WhitE. And then Black could be the eventual corresponding N/S line.)
But... PURPLE!! :err: :eek:
(Sorry, but those are the only purple smilies :p)
At the end of the day I don't really care about the colors, but I thought that having the purple line connect the red and blue lines was clever. I also love purple. Although I will admit: the White Line sounds pretty cool. I would go either way.
Don't get me wrong, robo, I think that your ideas are great and they're basically exactly how I would layout this system. But I strongly believe we should add lines as necessary, rather than simply laying track everywhere. Better to start simple and iterate then go all out and have to change it later :) I'd rather have an elegant skyrail that hits key locations than a complicated one that goes to every nook and cranny on the map.
Although, I don't think that an N/S line crossing Bridgeport is necessary. The Blue Line is right there. I think we should be trying to limit the amount of wood in the sky for aesthetic purposes.
drewprops
2011-04-27, 14:29
Why not underground?
Think of the thrill of plowing through mobs of zombehs at 100k an hour!!! :lol:
Make the tracks out of light blue wool! Wait, that burns. Wait, wood burns too...
...
ffsake. My theads are fucking cursed.
How about this: Let's all decide where the central station is. First and foremost, that's the beginning of everything, so lets do this first.
I vote spawn area. I'd do a poll, but apparently I'm not very good at that sort of thing.
Why not underground?
Think of the thrill of plowing through mobs of zombehs at 100k an hour!!! :lol:
Because there is stuff underground. Stuff you generally can't see until after you've busted a hole in it. Someone, I forget who, tried to build a tunnel system under Bridgeport a while back, only to realize it wasn't practical because there is stuff under Bridgeport.
The sky, on the other hand, is empty and predictable.
ffsake. My theads are fucking cursed.
What, you expect us to agree on things?
:p
I would strongly vote against the spawn because it's not really "the spawn" anymore, and it would mean building a new W/E skyway, when there's a perfectly good one hardly 50 blocks to the north.
@robo: what happened to your last post? I really liked it.
Exactly. Fuck it. We should all just build out willy-nilly in the same way other's have have stretched out the world.
I'm stupid sometimes. Let the octopi begin!
I really think that the line that goes by my places needs to be dark green. More shell like you know! :p
So other than that I'm not really weighing (:p) in on this because I'm kinda focused on my finals right now.
I did pass my Security+ exam today though! In fact I did really well I think. One less final I have for college now. My Security Prof said if we take the exam and pass we won't have to take his final. :)
@robo: what happened to your last post? I really liked it.
I deleted it as being too wordy and embarassingly OCD and not responding to the things you edited into your post, but now I regret it. I saw that you quoted it and I rushed to tell you to not delete the quote and I was too late. I should have copied and pasted it from your quote before it was too late. :( :( :(
Anyway, yeah. N/S lines: Red in the west, Green in the east (for a variety of geeky reasons). W/E lines: White in the center, Yellow in the north (proposed), Blue in the south (proposed). Secondary and tertiary colors are free for building off the "primary" system as users see fit.
I *am* particular about aesthetics, so, Spec, I can either do something nice and clean around your tower on the way to my house or do something completely fucked up and an eyesore 20 blocks away.
I deleted it as being too wordy and embarassingly OCD and not responding to the things you edited into your post, but now I regret it. I saw that you quoted it and I rushed to tell you to not delete the quote and I was too late. I should have copied and pasted it from your quote before it was too late. :( :( :(
Maybe Brad can bring it back since it never really leaves?
Also, I think 709 would be a great architect for the train station. :)
OK, I've tried to incorporate what everyone is saying so far: here's a sketch (no colours yet.)
http://thefrankishes.com/brysonpics/Applenovaland%20April%2011.jpg
If you stack booster rails one after the other does it go faster? Can you be thrown from the track?
There's no diagonals afaikn with rails, but the overview looks pretty good. That said, the greyline will be a direct line from BP to Flaming Mountain. No stops. If someone would like to connect into my system, be my guest, but only at my substation.
Wait, are we designing this system as an overall, or is everyone just doing their own thing? Because if we're all just doing our own thing, I'll not bother drawing anymore and it'll just grow organically.
It'll be nice (maybe not Bradport nice) but nice. I'd already thought about building something underneath my lawn/pool, but this is perfect. When I can can get some coordinates I'm going to do it quick-like...
arteggio
2011-04-27, 15:38
If you stack booster rails one after the other does it go faster? Can you be thrown from the track?
Here's the MC wiki article (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Powered_Rail). Based on one of the photos with four powered rails, I would say you can stack them. It also mentions somewhere that there's an upper speed limit (8 m/s?).
There's no diagonals afaikn with rails, but the overview looks pretty good. That said, the greyline will be a direct line from BP to Flaming Mountain. No stops. If someone would like to connect into my system, be my guest, but only at my substation.
Do you plan to make greyline follow spec's skyway, then go north to Flaming Mountain, where the substation will be?
Southernmost line: unless underground, it cannot extend out to the skyway that branches off to the sand mine at the SW of Furronia because of my chapel and shipyard. Though, it would be easy enough to lay it down at the bottom of my moat. If this line gets built as it's currently mapped, I would want it to end somewhere before my walls and then I'll take it inside at some spot.
Unless someone wants a quick route to the SW sand mine, then we can work something out. Just not the south skyway.
(Someone made diagonal tracks going from BP to the Arena. It's doable, with a ton of curves. ;) )
Wait, are we designing this system as an overall, or is everyone just doing their own thing? Because if we're all just doing our own thing, I'll not bother drawing anymore and it'll just grow organically.I think it'll be a conglomerate of both. Yes, I'm doing my own thing to get from BP to FM. It's a pain to walk there to get supplies now, so I'm building a line. That line is also perfect to connect to NW lines. Which is why I'm building a substation.
Nothing weird, I just don't want to have to stop or push buttons every 20 blocks to restart. Plus, I think my place is a perfect hub, which is why I'm making it it available.
@bryson
Yep. Pretty much. Except I would have the white line stick to the skyway, i.e. remove the line near the biosphere and make the line north of it completely horizontal.
Diagonals + boosters might not work so well. Is it possible for us to hold off on express lines from Bridgeport to our compounds until we complete the primary lines? Because otherwise Bridgeport will be a big mess. As much as I'd like to build a purple line directly from the tavern to my castle, it would be extremely disruptive to do so.
Do you plan to make greyline follow spec's skyway, then go north to Flaming Mountain, where the substation will be?
Southernmost line: unless underground, it cannot extend out to the skyway that branches off to the sand mine at the SW of Furronia because of my chapel and shipyard. Though, it would be easy enough to lay it down at the bottom of my moat. If this line gets built as it's currently mapped, I would want it to end somewhere before my walls and then I'll take it inside at some spot.
Unless someone wants a quick route to the SW sand mine, then we can work something out. Just not the south skyway.
(Someone made diagonal tracks going from BP to the Arena. It's doable, with a ton of curves. ;) )Yeah. Underneath my lawn/pool area. I think it'll be perfect.
The reason I say there's no diagonals is because diagonals are made from LRLRLR blocks. For all practical purposes a 90angle is just as efficient.
Also, I think 709 would be a great architect for the train station. :)I can't take on any more projects until I finish what I have now!!! I can't do it!!! Where are we building it!!! Does it look like enough space for a GCT-something!!! I think I have enough glass!!! Now I may rethink my plans about the greyline!!! Oh shit I can't take on another project!!! But I want this!!!
My proposal, with colors:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/railways.jpg
Pretty much Robo's colors on Bryson's tracks. Looks good to me :)
Also, remember that these are just the primary lines. There are obvious gaps but we can fill those with secondary lines.
I don't know if we want to rejigger the glass curve so the red and yellow lines can meet, but I don't think it really matters.
OK, I made pictures. (EDIT: Haha, of course Kraetos makes a better picture while I'm making mine. But still.)
VISION FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL IN MINECRAFTIA
Here's the H that Kraetos and I were talking about, and which you can kind of see in Bryson's map. Bridgeport is the circle. The dotted line is White. (Kraetos, I think whatever north/south line that crosses Bridgeport should be Black, even if it's the easternmost north/south line for the foreseeable future; Bridgeport will pretty much always be the approximate center of the map, and if we build the Green line center I don't want to have to figure out what the eastern north/south line should be when we build it. You're free to disagree, of course. ;))
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26616034/rail1.jpg
Here's the 2x2 grid that we were talking discussing as the eventual primary system:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26616034/rail2.jpg
The idea would be that people could individually expand upon it with secondary and tertiary lines it if they wanted to:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26616034/rail3.jpg
Where are we building it!!!
I think it would make sense to build the train station closest to the point where the so-called Black and White lines intersect, no? So that would be that big open space between my house and Old Towne, right?
I think that makes sense — everybody's been expanding Bridgeport out in that direction lately, with the theater and the gay bar and the Gherkin and the airport and my house. It's sort of Bridgeport's downtown, and yet there's still a huge space open right where the two lines intersect. But you're free to disagree, of course. ;)
I think that makes sense — everybody's been expanding Bridgeport out in that direction lately, with the theater and the gay bar and the Gherkin and the airport and my house. It's sort of Bridgeport's downtown, and yet there's still a huge space open right where the two lines intersect.
That makes all sorts of sense. It puts it on the intersection on two of the heaviest lines, and pops you out right in downtown BP.
RowdyScot
2011-04-27, 16:34
I'm okay with the Kraetos/Robo idea so long as I can keep my lime line. :D
I'm okay with the Kraetos/Robo idea so long as I can keep my lime line. :D
Yep! All secondary colors and pastels are up for grabs. But I think it would be cool if we used pastels for lines in the square and secondary colors for lines outside of it.
I think I need to work out how blue and green could meet (at the Arena, maybe? Might involve a touch of underground work, perhaps?)
I like the idea of a unified system.
709's Grey Line sounds like it's not really part of the system as it has no stops, so it should be treated more like the Bridgeport-Arena line. Unless we could persuade you to press a button 3 times to make the trip....
I'm okay with the Kraetos/Robo idea so long as I can keep my lime line. :D
I think that the idea that the primary lines are primary colors and the secondary/tertiary lines are secondary/tertiary colors just makes basic intuitive sense, which might be why we all "claimed" secondary colors (lime, grey, orange, purple) for our "personal" lines. Nobody was like, yes, I will own the Red Line.
If anyone wants to see what a nerd I am, the geeky reasons I wanted Red in the West and Green, not Blue, in the eventual East are threefold: Red/West and Green/East share their vowel sounds, a subtle suggestion as to which lies where; Red and Green are complementary colors, so it just seems right that they are parallel and not perpendicular; and if Red and Green are on opposite sides the primary lines can form a basic color wheel around Bridgeport. Also, any eventual Green line would presumably go by Turtle's base way out east, which he said he would like. :)
That was basically all I was saying in my now-deleted post, so it can stay deleted (if anyone was considering resurrecting it).
billybobsky
2011-04-27, 16:55
Two cents:
The tracks should be just under sea level for the most part so that complex stations won't be eye sores in the sky ( i say this completely non-ironically)...
Fuck. I can't keep up with you guys during the day. I feel like I have replies ready in my head to a half dozen posts here, but I'm not going to try!
Don't you people have jobs or school or kids or something** to keep you occupied during the day hours?? :lol:
** edit: besides MEIN CRAFT!
EVERYBODY STOP SAYING THINGS AND LET BRAD REPLY
:p
EVERYBODY STOP SAYING THINGS AND LET BRAD REPLY
Previously!
but I'm not going to try!
END OF THREAD.
edit: Oh... wait... I just... ^%$#@!
Two cents:
The tracks should be just under sea level for the most part so that complex stations won't be eye sores in the sky ( i say this completely non-ironically)...
I'm with bb on this one. I think it's going to be a better thing for them to be underground, but I can live with it above ground. Just wanted to state my thoughts.
I'm cool with the Kraetos line, other than the jag to to the North on the white line (don't do it!) and rejiggering the skyway curve to meet at the yellow and red lines (not happening). The white/red intersection will be at my place, not out in the glass skyway. Not a big change.
I guess I can press a few buttons. As long as I don't have to stop every 10 seconds and change tracks. Kind've defeats the purpose imo.
Underground is fine. I was just worried about running into everyone's basements/mines.
billybobsky
2011-04-27, 22:49
Underground is fine. I was just worried about running into everyone's basements/mines.
That's a fair concern and I think the solution is to plan the tracks around the basements -- use of an x-ray texture pack in this case would be warranted for design considerations...
Yellow for the North Line? Over my dead body, I'll TNT the skyway before I let that happen. :p
Yellow... :wtf:
Also, for those who don't know, I do currently have a large tunnel that runs from one compound to the other underground. I have one track laid and am planning to get the other one down later. It runs directly beneath the skyway from my drowning trap to my National Park. A transfer point above it would certainly cover access to my tracks while allowing the map to be followed.
I don't know how deep it is, but I'm fairly certain that a track slightly underground wouldn't intersect directly with it. Then Robo can have his lime green that runs N/S and my line from E/W can be dark green.
Yellow for the North Line? Over my dead body, I'll TNT the skyway before I let that happen. :p
Yellow... :wtf:
If people feel that strongly about it, we could build Blue in the north and Yellow in the south. But I think the colors going clockwise makes more sense than counterclockwise. And then people in the south would be sad.
What's wrong with yellow? :(
Then Robo can have his lime green
Clearly you are mistaking me for some other person :p
That's a fair concern and I think the solution is to plan the tracks around the basements -- use of an x-ray texture pack in this case would be warranted for design considerations...OK. I've never used such a thing, so a link to whatever everyone else is using would be appreciated. :)
How comfortable do people feel with the old push-downhill-and-jump-in technique for getting into carts? Powered tracks only boost carts already in motion. They won't do anything if you're sitting motionless. So, when planning stations or substations, we may need to account for building launchers.
And automated launchers are not small. :\
I've been trying to build a compact, sealed (to keep mobs and accidental miners out) launcher this evening, and here's what I've been able to produce so far.
http://i.imgur.com/0pt0c.png
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwmFZ9ewxGU
FWIW, "diagonal" tracks ride fast and smooth and are not jerky as you might suspect. Also, tracks are a PITA to configure right. There are some pretty obnoxious alignment issues, at least when I've been trying in SMP.
How are you playing in 1.5? Different machines?
Would you mind building a short diagonal track so we could see how viewing angle is affected?
Ummm:
http://imgur.com/O8hSS
A touch smaller...
Ummm:
http://imgur.com/O8hSS
A touch smaller...
lol... ok, I suppose I could try that :)
How are you playing in 1.5? Different machines?
Same machine. I keep backups of each release's minecraft.jar and swap out for testing.
Would you mind building a short diagonal track so we could see how viewing angle is affected?
The return stretch of that track has two diagonal runs. Or do you want much longer stretches?
http://i.imgur.com/FQF1N.png
The cart actually runs diagonally instead of flip-flopping at right angles. That only works for 45-degree angle stretches, though.
Oh, well it was so smooth I didn't realize it, so, awesome! :)
@Bryson: I understand the concept of cart boosters, but I will never use them. They are a dark magick. Much like the mob trap retrofit - which I feel like I should fully understand, but I don't. :(
Actually I would prefer blue in the north as well, if only because it is closer to me :p
Unless someone down south despises yellow as well...
Also, @709: You spend more time over there than me so I'll adjust the white line as you suggest.
drewprops
2011-04-28, 01:44
Is my beach in the north or the south, or what? What will be the closest station to my little outpost?
...
Is my beach in the north or the south, or what? What will be the closest station to my little outpost?
...
You're off to the east, the closest station to you will be the White/Green junction, which I think will end up being the central hub.
arteggio
2011-04-28, 07:50
South line: besides the possible junction with the green line in Bryson's SE area, I think the only southerners that would be affected are me and bobsky. I'm not really fond of yellow either, but I don't care which color goes down there. :p
Only thing is, let's save this line for last / not bother with it for a while (or stop it towards the W end of the Skyranch). The current diagram intersects over Anchorage Island, where I wanted to build a lighthouse. Moving the tracks all the way to the south coast of Anchorage lake seems a bit longwinded, but I don't think I want anything in the air around Furronia either, at least in the south. At worst the line could go down into the moat at the SE corner and come back up in the SW to go on out to the sand mine with a stop at Furronia in between... I'll figure something out for this area.
Powered tracks only boost carts already in motion. They won't do anything if you're sitting motionless.
Actually, try placing the rail like this:
[Dirt/Cobble/Whatever][Powered Rail][Powered Rail]
Basically if a minecart is sitting on a powered rail, and there's a block obstructing it's path in one direction, when the rail is turned on it WILL move the opposite direction of the solid block. You basically need to tell the track that there's only one direction the cart can travel.
This would be much easier to explain if I was on my own computer now.. If this doesn't make sense, I'll upload screenshots later.
Yes. I've read that between 2-4 rails are necessary (*shakes fist at wiki*), but it's possible to jump into a cart and push a button to power the rails for launch.
arteggio
2011-04-28, 08:44
What about always-on powered rails (or rails with a delay before turning off), a few normal rails before those powered rails, placing cart on the normal rails, push, jump in before powered rails?
My friend let me jump on his laptop and his copy of Minecraft so I could get this screenshot for y'all:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/412263/Minecraft%20Screenshots/Powered%20Booster.png
I 100% guarantee this works in SSP, and I'm sure it will in SMP too. Place a cart on the rails adjacent to the dirt block, hop in, hit the button, and off you go (no redstone wires required!)
I just noticed in Brad's vid that there are diagonals now. :eek:
When did that happen? The 1.5 update?
RowdyScot
2011-04-28, 09:26
I think that's the texture pack, 709.
Ohhhh. That's evil. :grumble:
On a side note: is it weird to be grilling brats for breakfast? Because that's what I'm doing. They were so fucking good last night that I woke up with a craving.
RowdyScot
2011-04-28, 09:40
That's an epic breakfast, then. :D
Corn on the cob too! Potato salad and slaw! BBQ chips!
This day is going to be a strange one. I can feel it. I may start a thread with a poll!
arteggio
2011-04-28, 10:11
OK. I've never used such a thing, so a link to whatever everyone else is using would be appreciated. :)
X-ray texture pack. (http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1021&t=171726)
I just noticed in Brad's vid that there are diagonals now. :eek:
When did that happen? The 1.5 update?
I think that's the texture pack, 709.
Ohhhh. That's evil. :grumble:
Yep. Texture change! :) I'll be posting the updated pack later tonight.
I 100% guarantee this works in SSP, and I'm sure it will in SMP too.
SMP confirmed.
Well, that was easy! :)
Worth noting on diagonal tracks: Powered rails don't do diagonals, so you need a straight stretch every 25 blocks to maintain speed.
Yep. I'll be sad if I have to give up the land between the bin and mansion, as I did have plans for it (whenever I finish the airport). If there's no other suitable location, though, I guess I'll hand it over.
Some of the guys here may remember me mentioning months ago what exactly I was intending to build there one day. I started trying out a prototype on local SMP this evening:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWN20dxA1eI
I figured it was appropriate to share this given the context of the contention for the space.
:D
I still think the open area east of my house would be a better location for the train station, anyway, unless there's some benefit to the space between Brad's castle and the Money Bin that I'm missing. :)
Nice work Brad! I'm looking forward to getting a ride in that thing. :)
First ever Minecart race on AN! It was a blast, until I failed. :(
http://turtle2472.com/an/minecartrace.png
SD (http://youtu.be/vzSzRSNEywk), HD (http://youtu.be/vzSzRSNEywk?hd=1)
Man, I was sure you were gonna win until you hit that gap. :D
That said, I think I am going to incorporate some kind of cart racing into the casino. I'll probably set it up so there is X amount of track with lots of curves in a rough circle, and too few boosters to make it around. I'll make two identical copies of the track on top of each other. It will then be up to the racers to put the boosters where they think they will work the most efficiently.
I fitted the Arena-Bridgeport mini-line with boosters. It needs some prettying up - I didn't have the right naterials on me - but it works!
arteggio
2011-04-30, 07:47
What's that? The server's been updated for about 10 hours now and no foundation has been broken for a train station? Not even a consensus on location?
;)
The main lines and their colors are determined, right?
So, it is my opinion that a definitive poll should be in order for where to build the main station. Once the votes are in from all players, the station location has been chosen. No more of this 3-page currency-style nanny business!
Then we figure out how the main tracks will be put together: two blocks wide, one for track, one beside it for lights; or three blocks wide, one side lights, the other side wool, etc.
Then, we figure out where the main tracks will be positioned starting concentrically from the BP station and going outward: underground for some of the lines, above ground for others, a couple alongside the skyway...
I'm pretty eager to get this system up and running!
PS: The Arena line was cool! :) I suppose we should try to plan powered rails outside of diagonals though, or just avoid diagonal lines altogether, for the sake of aesthetics.
So I'm building my personal line do from my "T" ranch to my BP home. It's underground and I'm thinking it'll come to connect my home without much meandering....I didn't really map it out too well before starting. :p
arteggio
2011-04-30, 09:02
Your T ranch is the place far, far east? I look forward to taking a cart to and from there, after walking it once. ;)
The Turtle National Park is east of the "T" ranch. There is a rail system in place right now there. You have to go below ground and pass under my drowning trap. The entrance is behind there. On the Park side, there's a ladder at the base of the skyway stairs that takes you to the tunnel. :)
I donned the x-ray pack you linked to (thanks for that, even though it gave me a headache ;)) earlier today and poked around. There's a lot going on underneath Bridgeport, so the East/West line may be a challenge to configure unless we go kind of deep (~20 blocks?). I like the idea of having the main station next to Robo's at the tower intersection, or if we have to go deep there's also the unused area across from the theatre (next to the tree farm) that may work nicely as an entrance.
So I've finished my Dark Green run. I know there is a major community effort, but I was doing this for me and figured I'd make it some everyone could use it if they wish.
http://turtle2472.com/an/DarkGreenLine.png
http://turtle2472.com/an/launch.png
This allows the launch and stop at the start point. You don't have to get out if you want to run again. :)
http://turtle2472.com/an/bpentrance.png
The access to the Park launch is via a ladder at the base of the stairs coming off of the skyway. So, the long stretch goes under my skyway directly.
It is totally underground and ready to go. Please do replace the minecarts after using them. I'm also very open to a connection with the community rail system in BP, otherwise this entrance should do for now. :) It sure does making the run from one are to the other a snap! Lit well enough and underground so weather and baddies won't get to you.
Actually, having upgraded the Arena-Brideport line, I realise now that the launchers are very compact. They could be made compact enough to fit in the existing station structure, especially if we went triple-decker with it. (It already has two levels.)
For the long, long routes (like Turtles) then old-style glitch-driven boosters would be a good idea along the way as the speed advantage over "proper" boosters is significant. The proper boosters make for much more reliable launching systems, though.
arteggio
2011-04-30, 16:40
I enjoyed my first modern-cart ride through your tunnel, turtle. It was great to cut that time down from 10 to 2 minutes. ;)
...
For the long, long routes (like Turtles) then old-style glitch-driven boosters would be a good idea along the way as the speed advantage over "proper" boosters is significant. The proper boosters make for much more reliable launching systems, though.
My concern about that is I can imagine the glitches being fixed leaving a slow cart and retro fitting.
Well, no-one says you have to take out the "proper" boosters. Just add glitch boosters as a speed booster.
billybobsky
2011-04-30, 17:27
One thing that the proper boosters bring is that you no longer have to have perpetual motion machines to get cart delivery, retrieval etc to happen...
One thing that the proper boosters bring is that you no longer have to have perpetual motion machines to get cart delivery, retrieval etc to happen...
I agree. Proper boosters are much tidier. I'm glad we have them, now. :)
I'd consider doing a booster cart exploiting a glitch in the game, if I can make it tidy. Sad I know, but you can't see my redstone torches in my tunnel because I'm just like that. Maybe one day I'll find a glitch exploit booster cart method that doesn't look like crap.
billybobsky
2011-05-01, 00:00
I'd consider doing a booster cart exploiting a glitch in the game, if I can make it tidy. Sad I know, but you can't see my redstone torches in my tunnel because I'm just like that. Maybe one day I'll find a glitch exploit booster cart method that doesn't look like crap.
detector rail setup to send an empty cart back along a glitch booster track. no need for inclines. can be built into the wall...
Got a link for me to see what you're referring to? Sorry but I'm getting prepped for two finals and not planning to search out much that isn't grade related at this point. Next test is Monday.
billybobsky
2011-05-01, 10:37
Good luck with your tests turtle, the idea is a theoretical construction in my head. It should work :P.
Hey Kraetos, what would you think about turning your tree farm into the BP subway terminal? It's in the perfect location, is already a good-looking building (especially with the glass ceilings and all), and honestly, a tree farm downtown is kind of a waste of prime real estate. ;)
I think we've decided that the lines will be underground for the most part. Does anyone want to chime in on why that would be a bad idea before it's official?
Go underground!
I've chimed in. :D
Submitted one report so only two tests left. Both for the same class. Written and then hands on the following week. I can't wait for it to end.
RowdyScot
2011-05-01, 21:40
Um...if it goes underground in k's tree farm...that kinda sorta goes through the middle of the gay bars. Not so okay with that. I like the location, but not if it destroys my work.
Um...if it goes underground in k's tree farm...that kinda sorta goes through the middle of the gay bars. Not so okay with that. I like the location, but not if it destroys my work.
How about we elevate the lines in populated areas?
Again, I strongly disagree with underground lines to due to mine interference. I mean, not to be a melvin, but let's weigh the pros and cons:
Pros: Fewer unsightly sky passages. No additional materials required, although it's not like lumber is expensive.
Cons: Will interfere with existing projects. No way to get off mid-ride and transfer to the skyway to continue on foot. No way to gauge your location from your surroundings. No way to predict where problems will arise since we can't see mines before we tunnel into them. The ride will consist of staring at stone. If we forget torches (or uncover caves) mobs will spawn and be trapped down there.
We have had problems with underground travel tunnels before; Rowdy's concerns are completely valid. I think a nice compromise would be mostly underground with elevated lines over "cities," but to be perfectly honest, what makes the most sense is to elevate the entire system. I understand the aesthetic concerns but we already have skyways and IMO practicality > aesthetics.
The tree farm is fine as a central travel hub, but again, I really, really think that at the very least, all train lines over Bridgeport should be elevated rather than buried. In fact it wouldn't even be possible to put the lines under Bridgeport without disrupting multiple established projects.
I agree 100% with Kraetos. We decided on skyways over underground passages for all of those reasons, and I don't see what's so different about rail transport that we make the exact opposite decision.
In fact, in the light of the research we did into the effects of collisions (ie:basically you just stop, no damage), then I don't see why we cant just add tracks to existing skyways - no additional deck required. That's the least amount of work and doesn't require any additional sky buildings. As long as there's enough room to move to one side or the other, everyone should have plenty of time to move out of the way if they're walking and a cart comes by. And even if you don't, no big deal.
Plus, Turtles underground line is long and boring. It would be much nicer if you could see the scenery on the way.
Plus, Turtles underground line is long and boring. It would be much nicer if you could see the scenery on the way.
Holy crap yes. Sorry, turtle, but your tunnels are a bore. :) This is the same reason we shot down arteggio's underground tunnels long ago. The scenery passing by makes the journey far less tiring.
Holy crap yes. Sorry, turtle, but your tunnels are a bore. :) This is the same reason we shot down arteggio's underground tunnels long ago. The scenery passing by makes the journey far less tiring.
I'm not offended. Like I said, I built those for me but opened them to the public. We can build above ground routes for those interested or maybe even figure out a way to transfer down to my underground lines. I was thinking about adding art and such to the walls....maybe have to dress it up a bit. :p
Whatever, I honestly don't give a fuck either way. What I do give a fuck about is getting some sort of community consensus. This is turning into the currency thread, and whatever asshole started that one better not have started this one.
In short, I just want to build a line. So get off your skirts, marys, or the greyline is going right through gay central.
Or tastefully around it.
:p
billybobsky
2011-05-02, 08:54
The difference between this and arteggio's project is that we are consulting with eachother about placement; he started his work without a care in the world.
It's fine to be a mix of above and below -- there are certain areas that we absolutely will not want an above ground line, and there are areas where we will. Skyway level tracks aren't going to allow you to see shit, tbh, and underground tracks don't have to be ugly or boring particularly if planned well.
As for mine disruption: we have a tool, it's called an x-ray texture pack. That combined with active consultation will make the most of these challenges moot.
I DO NOT think the tracks should be on the skywalk, unless isolated somehow, simply for the fact that collisions with other individuals will stop the trains.
I honestly don't think these lines will be used as much as warping so I do not care. I won't be using them because of the latency/lag on my connection which nullifies the benefit immensely. I will however like to participate in some advanced engineering...
We also need to be honest about where we need stops and plan above/below ground accordingly.
arteggio
2011-05-02, 12:00
Oh, sure, I cared. I was just new, and naïve to the fact that others had already built under there. :p
A mix of above and above ground tracks should be a good thing.
Though as for below ground in-around BP, I'm still not sure it's a good idea even with an x-ray pack; there's likely to be just too many things down there. The subway would turn into and underground roller coaster trying to work around everything.
If the hub station is at Spawn for example, I would make a lone BP-access track go into the town from the station, some degree above ground but nowhere near skyway heights. Maybe it could line up with the current Arena track and go into the current station. No reason to go in the dirt or up in the sky for a simple BP line.
Skyway tracks: my proposition is to build them either beneath/above the deck or with their own extension on the side. Like bbsky said, they won't be good for views either, so I think skyway-level tracks should be saved for the long stretches of distance in between the various projects. In my opinion, the time it would take to build a tunnel, say, from BP up to Elysium's place is not worth it. I would cling it onto the skyway. But, slightly-above-ground tracks (think those of the Arena) would be good for project areas assuming the project owner doesn't mind an elevated track in view.
Tunnels leaving the hub station, to de-clutter the area, could be cool though (and then tracks will emerge elsewhere if it makes sense for them to).
But yeah, this community census thing. :wtf: :grumble: :\ There are so many variables to this and so many people that get to offer input for these variables. First off, I still wish for a poll for the three hitherto discussed hub locations: Spawn; somewhere on top or around the current BP ministation; near Robo and the BP east-side skyway access. Give it a week or so, and then the votes that come in are definitive. (If no one else takes interest in this nor offers up a better form of democracy, I will make my own thread, with my own poll, give it two weeks, and declare the matter settled unless Brad himself vetoes me. :devil: )
I agree that we need to figure out substations too before ground is broken. The only way I can wrap my mind around doing this with everyone and so many locations is to take the first strong color blueprint we have from Kraetos (or Bryson's if you prefer his layout) — or we come up with an updated definitive general layout, since we have talked a little bit more about the main lines — and then we put circles where we think there should be a substation.
Each of us is more or less used to various patches of land around the map. I know the Ravonia area and have ideas with how I want to incorporate it into the lines; 709 and Drew, for example, might have track ideas about the Gherkin-Old Towne area that I don't care about. So, we all need to propose our own various desired substations and then bring them together in a coherenet, single blueprint. (I would also add that we could erase sequences in the lines to denote where we think they should go underground.) Then, we build.
Anyone agree or disagree with this group map-making business, or have a better idea?
drewprops
2011-05-02, 13:03
I'd love to speed up transit from Olde Towne out to Roaring Skull Falls and am wondering if my canopy bridge would be worthy of conversion... would it be possible to sling a track underneath the canopy walk?
...
arteggio
2011-05-02, 13:10
I'd love to speed up transit from Olde Towne out to Roaring Skull Falls and am wondering if my canopy bridge would be worthy of conversion... would it be possible to sling a track underneath the canopy walk?
I'm pretty sure it would be. Just need at least a two-block tall trench, then lay down track. :)
billybobsky
2011-05-02, 13:50
I would like to claim responsibility for the tracks needed to go beneath the sky ranch... This includes the lines that may lead from the hub to the two traps. I have construction projects beneath the earth that need to be avoided....
I may hold off a little bit on some of the long stretches I've planned (BP to Flaming Mountain, FM to Chichen Itza, UFO). Apparently Nether will finally be enabled in SMP with 1.6, so instead of laying down hundreds and hundreds of tracks I think I'll wait until the Bridgeport Nether terminal is built (which is one of the first things we should do, imo) and save myself a lot of work and resources.
I'm still building tracks around my home base of course (to the treefarm, mine, etc.) but maybe we should talk about what the Nether could mean for our larger transport needs.
drewprops
2011-05-04, 09:52
I need to go read up on the Nether, but from what you're saying I assume that it's possible to build multiple portals into the Nether... sounds interesting.
...
Yeah, an 8 block length in the "real" world is equal to a 1 block length in the Nether, so, for example, if the railway from Flaming Mountain to the UFO is 800 blocks in the Overworld it would only need to be 100 blocks in the Nether. Quite a difference.
The railways would have to be encased so that Ghasts don't blow out the tracks, but I think it'd be cool to have a cobble & glass "tube system." :)
RowdyScot
2011-05-04, 10:08
We're talking Ghasts. It needs to be obsidian, otherwise it will be obliterated.
billybobsky
2011-05-04, 10:09
Not so....
They don't fire through walls because they cannot see you. Even glass.
How much are people going to want to explore in the nether?
We're talking Ghasts. It needs to be obsidian, otherwise it will be obliterated.Ghasts can't destroy cobblestone, at least according to the wiki.
RowdyScot
2011-05-04, 10:22
The fireballs aren't as strong as TNT, but I'm pretty sure they destroy cobblestone. The wiki also claimed torches could be placed on glass, mind you.
How much are people going to want to explore in the nether?I'll definitely want to gather resources and poke around some, but it's going to be a problem if people run around they do now in the Overworld and set up portals miles away from spawn. Some serious map bloat.
The fireballs aren't as strong as TNT, but I'm pretty sure they destroy cobblestone. The wiki also claimed torches could be placed on glass, mind you.The blast force of a Ghast fireball is 20.17. Cobble (and stone) have a resistance of 30.
RowdyScot
2011-05-04, 10:32
Hmm. Wonder if the force was lowered, then. Could have sworn it used to destroy cobble. Well, at least that would make it an easier setup.
I could see a protected tunnel through nether working. I will also say that if it isn't protected that Mrs T won't likely ever go in there. If we can in fact make portal tubes than that is awesome though! Does it really work like that in SSP?
Also, notch didn't make it sound like it was going to happen any time soon.
Right, it probably won't be for a month or so, but for that kind of time/material savings I can wait. I've been using the shoe-leather express for this long, so another month isn't going to kill me. ;)
Plus, it'll give me time to think about my 1/8 scale models of the temple and UFO as tube-stations! :D
drewprops
2011-05-04, 15:04
I can't decide who's the bigger scaredy-cat, Mrs T or ME.
If you want to see funny things happen bring me along on your adventures.
My only fee is that someone replace all my lost/tossed tools.
Remember, I was so wigged out in Satan's Pit that I threw a diamond pick off into the hole....
I can't decide who's the bigger scaredy-cat, Mrs T or ME.
If you want to see funny things happen bring me along on your adventures.
My only fee is that someone replace all my lost/tossed tools.
Remember, I was so wigged out in Satan's Pit that I threw a diamond pick off into the hole....
I'm pretty much the biggest scaredy-cat ever. :D I don't know why Minecraft is so scary! :lol:
Majora's Mask? Bright and cheerful! Silent Hill? Just fine. Blocky zombies? OH SHIT FU—
Does it really work like that in SSP?
You can't ride a cart into a portal and keep moving on the other side, unless something significant has changed recently. You'll have to stop and get out, enter the portal, waaaaaaiiiiit, and get back in a cart to resume the ride.
Switching between the overworld and nether has a load time in SSP roughly the same as opening a whole new world. I suspect the same will go for SMP.
Also, notch didn't make it sound like it was going to happen any time soon.
True. For anyone not following him, notch just blogged this on 2011-05-02:
1.6 officially has a release date of “not soon”. The main features will be the maps, bug fixes, and now a functioning Nether in multiplayer.
Nether. In smp. Fun!
So when you go into the portal it can be in a "protected environment"? So like Mrs T wouldn't have to worry about being harmed as she's passing from place to place?
Also, can't ghasts travel through a portal too? As in, into the overworld? How do you keep this from happening?
In case you couldn't tell, I don't play in SSP at all.
So when you go into the portal it can be in a "protected environment"?
Any Nether fast-transit system would have to be completely enclosed. Ghasts do not fuck around.
Zombie pigmen aren't the most fun to hang out with, either...
So when you go into the portal it can be in a "protected environment"? So like Mrs T wouldn't have to worry about being harmed as she's passing from place to place?
When you first build a portal in the overworld and travel through it, a portal appears in the nether. That portal is usually out in the open and unprotected. Once built, though, you could encase the portal and a path in stone, and build another portal back to the overworld.
Also, can't ghasts travel through a portal too? As in, into the overworld? How do you keep this from happening?
There was a bug early on that allowed ghasts to spawn near a portal in the overworld, but I'm pretty sure that was fixed.
Okay. I revised the map. This is basically the core of the railway system: the white line, and parts of the red and green lines. I think we should build this first and then we can extend the green line south (underground?), and add the blue/yellow lines later.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/railways.jpg
Assuming that everyone is okay with this layout, the next step is for everyone to take responsibility for segments. Ideally you should take responsibility for segments which are near your stuff. (For example, I can handle G2-W5.) That's when we can decide what segments should be above or underground, and what the stations should be named.
For where they are above ground we can build below the skyway. The entirety of the White Line should be above ground but there are sections of the Red Line which might work better underground. I don't know, I don't really spend much time out there.
Also, the above ground tracks should be lower than the existing skyway. 10-15 blocks lower. That will make it easier to make it go underground when necessary.
RowdyScot
2011-05-04, 19:59
Okay. I revised the map. This is basically the core of the railway system: the white line, and parts of the red and green lines. I think we should build this first and then we can extend the green line south (underground?), and add the blue/yellow lines later.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/railways.jpg
Assuming that everyone is okay with this layout, the next step is for everyone to take responsibility for segments. Ideally you should take responsibility for segments which are near your stuff. (For example, I can handle G2-W5.) That's when we can decide what segments should be above or underground, and what the stations should be named.
For where they are above ground we can build below the skyway. The entirety of the White Line should be above ground but there are sections of the Red Line which might work better underground. I don't know, I don't really spend much time out there.
Also, the above ground tracks should be lower than the existing skyway. 10-15 blocks lower. That will make it easier to make it go underground when necessary.
If we're planning to do a rail system, I'm okay with this layout and with the mostly above ground under skyway method.
arteggio
2011-05-04, 19:59
This is basically the core of the railway system: the white line, and parts of the red and green lines. … Ideally you should take responsibility for segments which are near your stuff. … Also, the above ground tracks should be lower than the existing skyway.
I like your words. Though, the existence of the Nether does have a point to be made about:
Should we build a worldwide transit system above ground when the Nether will let us build the same system in 8 times less space? Sure, there can still be plenty of tracks in the overworld, but should they be primary lines, or merely auxiliary lines connecting to the Undeground?
I like the idea of an overworld system without using the underworld as a foundation for it, but there are definite material and time gains from utilizing it as 709 said. Unless, of course, Brad would like to donate a monstrous amount of rail (or its needed resources) to be used by those of us willing to participate in building this as a community.
Though, not only would time be saved in building over a smaller distance, but time travelling would be cut also...
Nonetheless I think vote to build overworld Red, White, and Green lines, with Yellow/Blue optional, like Kraetos proposed. (Crazy faraway projects could utilize the Nether exclusively, or you can utilize the Nether if you prefer its space-saving efficiency.) I think the tracks should have a view of our world, and not the endless deep, dark, fiery purple of Down There.
RowdyScot
2011-05-04, 20:20
We could utilize the time before 1.6 (of which there will be a good bit) to plan what we should do with the Nether and portals. The crucial part to doing anything with portals is to make sure we keep things aligned well. I would think turning off mobs would allow for structuring everything correctly. Don't know if the rest of you have tried it on SSP, but building in the Nether is rather terrible as an experience. Ghasts simply destroy everything you do, not to mention you, while you work. We could set something up there rather quickly in not much space, however, and perhaps have things connected there. I actually wouldn't mind doing something like Arteggio's highway idea in the Nether.
I really think that we shouldn't use the Nether as regular transport. Maybe for extreme long distances, it's worth the risk, but for local-ish transport we should use main-world minecarts. 1.6 may not drop for several months, so let's get a system we can use now. I'm happy to build W5-W4. W4-W3 is probably almost there anyway, as I laid track along that stretch many moons ago. Are we agreed on the V-shaped stop/go launcher as per my line across to the farm for intermediate stops?
I wonder if it's worth making a short "technology demo" track with a start, and end and an intermediate stop somewhere so people can copy designs from a central location?
I can also look at extending Green southwards, which may involve joining my existing line for a bit, maybe?
We should reserve nether travel for going out much further than this. Nether travel is really fast, but it's not really worth the hassle of going through a portal if you're not going that far.
We talked on the server and agreed it would be easiest to build off the sides of existing skyways. I'm building G2-W5 right now as a "tech demo."
Also, if an Brad or turtle could donate a few stacks of iron blocks for this project, it would be greatly appreciated :)
I meant for the tech demo track to be 15-20 blocks long, so all the stop designs were in one place.
There's more than one stop design? I was just using the 2 block hole with 2 boosters.
SpecMode
2011-05-04, 21:18
One general note to keep in mind about the Nether, come 1.6: it's essentially another world map being generated, meaning it'll be sharing storage space with the existing world data. How are we doing on RAMdisk space, Brad?
I'm not worried about server space at all. I'm more concerned about people loading one world to then have to load the next and the load that'll have on the server as a whole. Not a big deal the way things are now with warping and then disconnecting and reconnecting so not likely an issue, just something to consider as well.
I'm of the persuasion that we would build the tracks now and add Nether travel later if we so choose.
I'm not worried about server space at all.
In this context, it's not free disk space we need to worry about but the free RAM. Remember that when we had the world on disk, the thrashing made the game lag horribly when a bunch of us were on in different areas. That's why we continue to operate on the RAM disk.
I would much prefer we remain conservative on the matter of world size. Once we grow, we can't easily go back unless people want to give up whatever projects they've worked on. The prospect of using the nether to wildly expand the world does not sit well with me.
Well, I think we have room to double our size as of now.... but you're right, we do not want it huge. If Nether is 1:8 then how much more space does it take on a server?
If we all choose to go big, an SSD would make a huge difference. That's still no where near as fast as a RAMdrive though.
The prospect of using the nether to wildly expand the world does not sit well with me.
Agreed. Nether travel is really fast. To put it in perspective, 8:1 means that traveling the entire East-West skyway, about 2560 blocks, takes only 320 blocks in the Nether, which is roughly the distance from Brad's house to Old Towne.
I tried it today in single player. Went about 200 blocks in the nether (over a huge lava lake, making a 1x1 stone bridge while dodging ghasts) and popped out game-days journey away from my spawn point. It was way further than I expected 8:1 to be.
Also, building multiple portals on one side in close proximity will usually all lead to the same portal on the other side... or something like that. Build too many portals and it gets confusing.
RowdyScot
2011-05-05, 00:05
Should we just ignore the Nether entirely, then? If we never go there on the server, it never generates, and we save space.
billybobsky
2011-05-05, 00:18
Expansion of the real world due to Nether exploration could be limited if portals can only be built real world side as a rule.
I don't want to limit Nether being built, it is part of the game. Maybe a request for a limit like mentioned would be sufficient. I think if people use common sense it should be fine.
Worst case is someone goes way out and gets pruned. :)
Worst case is someone goes way out and gets pruned. :)
Not so easy with the nether, if my recollections are correct, but I need to verify with the "new" map format...
Can someone warp from Nether to the main world? What about from the main world to Nether?
drewprops
2011-05-05, 08:27
Oooo... what is this "mail world" of which you speak???!
...
drewprops
2011-05-05, 09:08
Okay, so I've forged some mine tracks and I've made a mine cart, but I'm not ready to start building the Olde Towne to Skull Falls route just yet because I need to understand the standard setup for mine-carting.
So far I understand that:
you have to have a means of making the cart go, and that some people use "boosters", however I'm not sure if there's a simple explanation or example of best practices in this department.
tracks can be angled. Do they automatically do this if placed on a slope?
tracks can be curved. Do they automatically stitch an intersection of 90º tracks together?
How many carts must be available on any particular run? These are stored in chests, right?
if we run carts underneath walkways that means building a dedicated "underbridge" as they can't be suspended from overhead tracks.
...
arteggio
2011-05-05, 09:17
I'm playing around with tracks at the moment, and here's what I've picked up.
tracks can be curved. Do they automatically stitch an intersection of 90º tracks together?
Yes. Place one track on a block, then another track one block up and to the left or right, then place a track between them and it curves. Powered rails curve also, but there's no image for powered curving so it appears that they don't.
How many carts must be available on any particular run? These are stored in chests, right?
Storable in chests, yep. As for quantity, as many as you want? One cart can take you across a whole run. If you need to move the cart to a different track, just hit it with a sword and you can put it in your inventory. Very reusable.
if we run carts underneath walkways that means building a dedicated "underbridge" as they can't be suspended from overhead tracks.
I think so. Tracks need to be placed on something for them to exist, so they can't just flow on their own, though that would be a nice simplistic approach to a monorail.
Kraetos seems to have the best material-saving approach, if you check out his current G3–W5 run near Old Towne. It's just another block added onto the side of the skyway. Has a very modern feel, walking between tracks or zooming along the edges in the sky...
EDIT: Or was this only a quick demo design? Should tracks go beside the skyway for where there are currently no projects, or does anyone suppose it makes more sense to build all stretches 10-15 above ground, as a sort of metal aqueduct?
drewprops
2011-05-05, 10:21
I like the idea of building a rollercoaster!
Can someone warp from Nether to the main world? What about from the main world to Nether?
Completely unknown at this point. "Warping" is just moving you from your current coordinates to the coordinates of another player. Since there's no notion of which world you're in based on coordinates, this would have to be a wholly new implemented feature.
I like the idea of building a rollercoaster!
Have you been to west Bridgeport lately?
Kraetos seems to have the best material-saving approach, if you check out his current G3–W5 run near Old Towne. It's just another block added onto the side of the skyway. Has a very modern feel, walking between tracks or zooming along the edges in the sky...
I can't take all the credit, I think it was mostly bbskys idea to put the tracks on the side. But it makes the most sense because it saves materials, has a nice view, and it means the stations can be easily constructed underneath the skyway. (See G3-the way to my castle-for how I've built the station.)
arteggio
2011-05-05, 13:30
Ah okay, well whether you, bbsky, whoever, it's a pretty cool and material efficient design. I like the skyway being winged by tracks, and the sub-walk stations are a good fit too.
Shall this be the universal design that we'll try to stick with throughout the world?
Shall this be the universal design that we'll try to stick with throughout the world?
That depends: does everyone approve of this design? Or are there more suggestions?
drewprops
2011-05-05, 14:13
What about collisions between minecar riders?
If collisions are possible will we be using 2 tracks per walkway, left-hand drive, American style? (opposing traffic is on the lefthand side)
I was considering running my track beneath my walkway, but I like the out-rigger nature you're discussing.
...
... will we be using 2 tracks per walkway, left-hand drive, American style? (opposing traffic is on the lefthand side)
Exactly. The track on the skyway I set up won't launch you from the left side, only the right.
On collisions: if they occur, nobody takes damage, but then you're stuck on the track and you have to run and jump through a booster to get started again. So I figured that having two-way tracks was just easier.
arteggio
2011-05-05, 15:04
I'm currently working on a private station in Ravonia and learning this rail business along the way. I'm setting it up with two rails, copying the button-boosters you've done, Kraetos. I'm also using the American driving style, with incoming/opposing traffic to one's left and outgoing/ahead to the right. I think it's a good idea to set this as a standard, if no one opposes.
drewprops
2011-05-05, 15:09
If, say, I'm mining up near Olde Towne and want to send a load of cobble down to the beach on its own, is that a thing? Automated transmission of quantity goods from one location to the other?
...
arteggio
2011-05-05, 15:17
If, say, I'm mining up near Olde Towne and want to send a load of cobble down to the beach on its own, is that a thing? Automated transmission of quantity goods from one location to the other?
...
Sounds like you're looking for the storage cart (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Storage_Minecart)! :)
If, say, I'm mining up near Olde Towne and want to send a load of cobble down to the beach on its own, is that a thing? Automated transmission of quantity goods from one location to the other?
...
It's possible, but storage minecarts tracks require 4x as many boosters. Where a manned minecart will move for 32 blocks with no assistance after receiving power, and unmanned one will only make it 8.
Right. Delivery of goods might be better served by a Powered Minecart pushing Storage Minecart(s).
drewprops
2011-05-05, 15:50
It's not a terribly long run, so it might work out. The biggest challenge will be reworking my encampment for public use.
arteggio
2011-05-05, 17:51
I'm currently working on the R4 area. Before I do any more, does anyone disagree with the following design approach, seen from below, for the 2-wide, glass-railed skyway variant (of which there is a lot)?
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5691207595_fbfd2a2fe3_z.jpg
Technically I'm following the same scheme that Kraetos used on the 4-wide skyway, but I've always liked using the glass railing to better see what's over-under the rail. Having a track there inhibits the view a bit.
I'm building myself a station at the NW corner of Ravonia to learn all this stuff, and have taken the liberty of bringing the Red line that's north of R4 down through the north wall and shooting it back out through the west wall (to eventually head south), simply meaning that the Red line won't be straight N–S. A normal sub-skyway station wouldn't fit there anyway, and I didn't want to get all fancy with track switching.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5691795706_b63c51bb0a_z.jpg
I'm not sure if anyone else knew this yet, but the optimal amount and spacing for powered rails on an incline seems to be 4 powered rails followed by four rails, repeat. I was going to do something like powered rail, rail, powered rail, rail, etc, but I don't think it will work.
Anyone know who's little castle sits between W1 and R4?
Anyone know who's little castle sits between W1 and R4?
The signs on it say it belongs to....Jesus.
So, um, pray?
;)
ThunderPoit
2011-05-05, 19:39
Its atariboy's house. His skin is Jesus.
billybobsky
2011-05-05, 22:28
to arteggio:
I see a problem with your incline design: if two carts are passing each other in opposite directions on that little section they will lose all momentum.
A few of you have contacted me about conjuring resources for rails. Rather than pick any individuals to bless with the dark magic, I have created a Federal Stimulus Dropoff Box in the post office and filled it to the brim with rails and boosters. I leave these to you to divide amongst yourselves. :)
arteggio
2011-05-06, 09:11
In our haste to get lines built, I think we've forgotten something: color. This whole time I've been assuming we'd use actual wool for the lines, but, where can it go? I guess in the skyway type I'm working on it could be put between the floorboards and the rail boards, to be seen through the glass, but skyway like with the green like will require some more creativity. This is feeling a little messy. :\
to arteggio:
I see a problem with your incline design: if two carts are passing each other in opposite directions on that little section they will lose all momentum.
Oh, yeah, I knew that... Even if I completely ignored it as I was trying to postpone chopping down a forest for more wood. Off to fix it!
A few of you have contacted me about conjuring resources for rails. Rather than pick any individuals to bless with the dark magic, I have created a Federal Stimulus Dropoff Box in the post office and filled it to the brim with rails and boosters. I leave these to you to divide amongst yourselves. :)
Thanks!
drewprops
2011-05-06, 09:47
I procured some resources and am beginning to lay out the outrigger underlays for my tracks going to/from Olde Towne/Skull Falls. Right now I'm reading up on Power Rails (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Power_Rail) and my eyes are currently crossed.
I might need the synopsis of how to do this, and will go look at existing tracks for examples.
...
In our haste to get lines built, I think we've forgotten something: color.
I'm gonna add colors once I work out the kinks with the stations :D
drewprops
2011-05-06, 14:20
I'm having fun making my first run and have decided to make my glass tower into a station.
arteggio
2011-05-06, 16:29
Systems status update:
After work by grey and me, R3–R4 is up and running!
As is G2-W5.
W1-W3 is in progress, and Kraetos is starting work on the white-green junction.
The white-green junction (now named Old Towne Station) is complete. I'm working on the eastern white line right now.
[EDIT] White line is compete from Apple Store to Old Towne. The next station is Mob Hill, and obviously I would like SpecMode's assistance with designing the stop :)
Next time we're both on we can figure it out.
@art: I like your stripes, I think I'm going to implement them everywhere. Red/White station is looking good, what should we call it?
drewprops
2011-05-07, 00:43
Nice work, K, and all.
I look forward to riding around our world on one of Brad's "long sunny days".
And speaking of our fearless leader, I'd like to announce that his Smithness enjoyed the first ride on the new Olde Towne to Skull Falls line tonight. See below for screenshotgraphic evidence of that pioneering experiment....
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/630422/minecraft/skull_falls_line_001.png
Swing on through and take a ride sometime.
Note that the fastest way out of the tower is to go up and jump into the water.
If you prefer safety, go down and into my earthberm home :)
...
What are the names of the stations on the Red Line and stations W1 and W2? I'm making a map.
R3 would be Flaming Mountain, of course, and R2 should be Temple Station. The stations at R2, R3 and R4 aren't prettied up yet, but the Red lines to and from are functional. I could see the need for a station in between R2 and R3 if we want to hook into the Western Skyway at some point, so I've kind of built out an area that the tracks pass through in anticipation of that. I'm going to hold off on R1 until I finish the railings, which I'll work on today.
I've deviated from the wooden design as it enters and leaves Flaming Mountain so it fits in a little better with the cobble compound look, but it works. There's still some baddie-proofing to be done, so take care if you're night-riding. ;)
Speaking of R1... I'm just going to do a single track from R2 at this point. If we get more traffic out there I'll put in a double-lane.
What was the price of tracks again? I may need to purchase a bundle from you, Brad, next time you're on.
arteggio
2011-05-07, 09:44
Red/White station is looking good, what should we call it?
Last I looked Red-W1 was a mere platform, so grey must have worked it into something nice. I think he should get to name it if he wishes.
EDIT: Oh. So it's still just a platform. :lol: Nonetheless, grey sounded like he might get to it. If not I will. There's absolutely nothing interesting nearby to name it after through.
R4 is complete; I've built a special station on the inside of my walls in the NW corner and am calling it Grand Raven Station. Unless Bryson or someone would like R5 to be built, it might be a while before I bother with it.
I could see the need for a station in between R2 and R3 if we want to hook into the Western Skyway at some point, so I've kind of built out an area that the tracks pass through in anticipation of that.
Yeah, eventually I wold like to get a line out to my castle, and to my park, so it makes more sense to go west from R2-R3 than from R5.
I've deviated from the wooden design as it enters and leaves Flaming Mountain so it fits in a little better with the cobble compound look, but it works.
I got a nice medieval-industrialist vibe from this. :) Even though it's cool that most of the rail system is currently a unified design, I was thinking that individualist designs would be cool to zoom through too. And I'm sure plenty of that will come with secondary and tertiary lines. Can't wait for cyan and magenta lines. ;)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/bta_map.png
:D
[EDIT] Can we call the R/W transfer "Creeper's Crossing" since it's in the middle of nowhere over a dark forest?
RowdyScot
2011-05-07, 19:03
I'm going to work on a bypass from Mob Hill to Flaming Mountain soonish. I'll set stations at Turtle Rock Memorial Bridge (Parapa Desert Station), and likely one at the corner between Atari and Maciej (Scarcity Station). I'll set up stair access from PDS to Parapa Palace, and run another line to the Hibearnation Station (which will be repurposed as a station for North Creepersville as part of the construction for the Lodge).
Edit: I need to check into it for certain, but I may be able to utilize detector rails to do line switching off of the main line without leaving the cart, too. Gonna verify that as a possibility. Would be neat if it could be done.
White Line is done! End to end time? 1:55 give or take a few seconds to hit buttons.
Yes, that's right! You can travel from Flaming Mountain to Old Towne in under two minutes! Technology these days...
arteggio
2011-05-09, 12:32
I'm building the west line out from the island where the skyways meet, between Temple and Flaming Mountain Stations.
I'm thinking of coloring it orange. So, Brad or turtle, if we don't meet soon in game, can you put a stack of red and yellow flowers in my mailbox? :)
arteggio
2011-05-09, 14:22
Done
Thanks!
Forgot to mention: I also have a local brown line that goes from Grand Raven in the NW to the SE corner of Ravonia. I'm not sure it's map-worthy, but I wanted to let its existence be known in case it might be helpful for other travellers.
I'm building the west line out from the island where the skyways meet, between Temple and Flaming Mountain Stations.
I'm thinking of coloring it orange. So, Brad or turtle, if we don't meet soon in game, can you put a stack of red and yellow flowers in my mailbox? :)
I, erm, thought I was going to use orange.
But whatever...
I, erm, thought I was going to use orange.
But whatever...
Where did you want to use orange?
arteggio
2011-05-09, 16:09
I, erm, thought I was going to use orange.
But whatever...
Oh, sorry, I don't recall reading that at all. I haven't made any of the wool yet, so it doesn't matter. If you are partial to orange it's all yours.
Not sure what I'll make the west then. It doesn't really seem worthy of colors, being so desolate and undesired. Black? Grey?
Are we still saving yellow/blue for potential W-E routes with respect to the BP area and its surroundings? Does anyone think the whole color wheel thing is going to take hold, or has there been a quiet census to not bother? I'd hate to make it light green and then take that away from the Green line...
How about this for the yellow line?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/yellow_line.jpg
[EDIT]
Or, we could build it straight across, but that means making it independent of the skyway. Which I'm fine with. I saw the red line today and I really like the part of it that is below the skyway. We could do something like that and then it would connect with Green Line and we could add stops near Parapa and Turtle's.
i.e this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/yellow_line_alt.jpg
RowdyScot
2011-05-09, 16:30
A stop near Parapa there is rather...useless. The entrance is far south. I'm still adding the Lime line as a bypass around Creepersville.
RowdyScot
2011-05-09, 16:34
Actually, would you mind doing a mockup of a Lime line starting at the Skyway branch off of the White Line at Mob Hill going north? It only needs a couple of stations, namely at the corner where it turns west again, and at the lava bridge, then a connecting point with Flaming Mountain on the Red line, assuming those can meet up.
Actually, would you mind doing a mockup of a Lime line starting at the Skyway branch off of the White Line at Mob Hill going north? It only needs a couple of stations, namely at the corner where it turns west again, and at the lava bridge, then a connecting point with Flaming Mountain on the Red line, assuming those can meet up.
Shouldn't this be the pink line?
:p
Nah it can be the Lime Line. I don't care that much about making it consistent.
RowdyScot
2011-05-09, 16:43
Well, I *did* kinda call Lime forever ago. :p
RS, grey and I claimed colors (lime, grey, and orange, respectively) before consistency of location was a "thing." :)
I wouldn't mind if you added my dark green line to a map too. You can denote it's underground by dashing it or something like that maybe. I'm thinking about adding a stairway access from the skywalk light green to the underground dark green line.
Then there'd be no need to build another one out East. The big thing is I don't want to have to break up the lines. There's have to be an auto connector to make the connection depending on which way you are going. Y2 stop could be skipped if there is a stair going down from the skyway for the dark green line too.
Well, I *did* kinda call Lime forever ago. :p
RS, grey and I claimed colors (lime, grey, and orange, respectively) before consistency of location was a "thing." :)
Good, cuz I was just kidding and already made it lime :)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/limeline.jpg
@turtle, we're out of greens :(
I could change the eastern N/S line to blue, if you like. (Actually I would like that too, since my castle has a blue theme.)
Do you know the coordinates of the point where it turns? Roughly?
EDIT: Yeah I'm definitely going to change the current green line to the blue line so I can make the purple line connect my two castles. Can I trade you green wool for white wool, turtle?
RowdyScot
2011-05-09, 17:09
I'd be down with that. And thanks :) I'll be working on that as part of the work on the Lodge, which has started finally, and will pick up more with the completion of the gay bars.
Just to piss all the color purists off, I'm building the birch and pine lines from G2 to G1 and to POI in the NE. :p
Well, I have been the dark green line from the start so I'm not going to change. Not to be a dick about it, but what other color is a turtle? Kinda like Grey needs a grey line.
That being said, mine doesn't have to be the only green. It was built as a private line for me anyway so you can not include it in the main rail layout if that's your choice. I'm ok with it either way. :)
To get green, I have the perfect source of cacti at my house in BP. If I get on later (I likely will) and harvesting from the cactus farm doesn't work for you I'll be happy to give you what you need.
drewprops
2011-05-09, 19:44
I want the BLACK LINE.
Is there one of those yet?
Well, I have been the dark green line from the start so I'm not going to change. Not to be a dick about it, but what other color is a turtle? Kinda like Grey needs a grey line.
I agree completely, per my edits. We had green as part of the "color wheel" design but I don't want the green line. You should have it. I just need to know where the turn is before I can outline it. I'm going to replace the green with blue, and move the green to your tunnel. Do you think you could leave me some white wool?
@drew there is no black line, it's yours.
Also, purple line proposal:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/576074/purple_line.jpg
Two things:
Brad, I don't want to build a track over your house if you don't want it there. Should I lower it for that section?
bbsky, as requested the construction anything under the skyranch is up to you. But I think it should stop at the hostile trap. Doesn't really matter where it comes out.
Here's my crude version:
http://turtle2472.com/an/DarkGreenLine.png
Basically it turns just beyond the drowning trap. All lines are straight too.
Also, I have added 125 wool to your inventory. I noticed you were offline at the time so I took the opportunity to my advantage.
I'm not a fan of the W4-P2 leg of the purple line. Would prefer to keep the skies and area around SodHaus clear. :\
Wouldn't it be better to connect L2 to P2 instead? Little longer travel time, but possibly cleaner design for the BTA over all.
@turtle Thanks! I'll recolor the lines tomorrow and add yours to the map.
I'm not a fan of the W4-P2 leg of the purple line. Would prefer to keep the skies and area around SodHaus clear. :\
Wouldn't it be better to connect L2 to P2 instead? Little longer travel time, but possibly cleaner design for the BTA over all.
Well I'm trying to connect the spawn and the mob grinder to the white line. I can bury W4-P2 easily, there's already part of a tunnel down there.
Or there could be a separate line from the grinder to the white line.
I'm not a fan of the W4-P2 leg of the purple line. Would prefer to keep the skies and area around SodHaus clear. :\
Wouldn't it be better to connect L2 to P2 instead? Little longer travel time, but possibly cleaner design for the BTA over all.
Seconded.
I can bury W4-P2 easily, there's already part of a tunnel down there.
Or there could be a separate line from the grinder to the white line.
There are several tunnels down there including a large chamber underwater that I've been occasionally working on, and I'd prefer it not turn into a subway tunnel. Might be best to just skip that connection.
Also, I have added 125 wool to your inventory. I noticed you were offline at the time so I took the opportunity to my advantage.
Be careful using the inventory editor on other players. I didn't add any explicit support for the changes (some not insignificant) to the player file format that were made in recent betas. Things like custom spawn points, sleep timers, achievements, etc. They may work just fine, but I haven't tested for them and the app has the potential (albeit slim) to do bad things with those new attributes. The most likely "bad" scenario is that those attributes may get clobbered.
Might be best to just skip that connection.
Okay. I'll link the top half to L2. No problems with Apple Store -> Mob Grinder, right? It's all along existing track anyways, and it'll bring the network to the spawn point.
I'm beginning to think rails are too much for my lowly WiMax to handle. :( Chunks with rails on them seem to take a lot longer to load, and I often find myself waiting at the edge of a void or worse, in this jittery frozen state that gives me headaches. That all happened every once in a while before we started laying down track, but it seems to happen much more often now, and areas far away from track seem to generally be much less affected. :\
Actually riding the rails is, of course, right out.
I spent pretty much the entire weekend trapped on the skyway somewhere near Bridgeport, because every time I tried playing the world wouldn't load fast enough for me to get anywhere. It's possible I've just been getting bad reception from Clear lately, but the timing of it all makes me a little concerned. :( :( :(
So, a new gotcha with all these rails. Apparently they are crushing Robo's performance, making him a sad panda whenever he has to wade through Bridgeport. We tested by going out to a remote area and laying down a ton of tracks (with boosters). Sure enough, it was fine for him before, and crushingly bad afterwards.
Not sure what to do about this, but I wanted to caution further mass track laying that it may be contributing to slowness. That may also be why bobsky and Bryson and I (and others?) have noticed FPS drops in central BP. Between the skyway tracks, junctions, T's tracks, and my rollercoaster, we could be pushing up towards a breaking point for tracks.
If I have to mothball the rollercoaster, I will. I'm hoping other concessions can be made too, like making the main railways two-way instead of one-way; that would halve the number immediately.
Dangit! Beaten by two minutes. :p
Not sure what to do about this
I'm going to talk to Clear and see if they can offer me a plan with better performance. I'm kind of broke but I really like playing Minecraft with you all, it's almost like having friends become a creative outlet for me. :D The only thing that worries me is that right now I'm on a discontinued, less expensive plan, and if I move to a new plan there's no guarantee I'll actually get better performance but I would be guaranteed to never be able to get my cheap plan back. But still I think it might be worth a shot, if it comes down to it. :\
If I have to mothball the rollercoaster, I will. I'm hoping other concessions can be made too, like making the main railways two-way instead of one-way; that would halve the number immediately.
Nonono! Don't mothball the rollercoaster, it's an awesomely disorienting experience, especially with tons of lag. :p I don't want to get in the way of everybody's rail projects. :o
I don't want to call anything conclusively yet; we ran only one test and my connection could have just slowed because all of Clear's customers were firing up Netflix for the evening while Brad was laying the test track. But still. Correlation doesn't equal causation...but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing "Look over there." :\ /xkcd
Is it just the presence of the rails that causes you lag, or does someone have to be using them?
No one was riding when he was in BP earlier or around the remote test track when Robo reported the performance issues. I mixed occasional boosters and redstone torches at the test track to make it better reflect what's in BP, and the track had roughly 200 pieces.
Oh geez, so it's not even the boosters, it's the tracks themselves? Meaning to fix it I can't just remove the boosters, I have to pull up all the tracks?
God damnit notch.
Well, let's not be too hasty. :) I was just cautioning against further construction for a bit to see if we can isolate the cause. If nothing else pans out, then let's try removing some rails.
RowdyScot
2011-05-09, 23:48
Also, before we do much more with proposing/building lines, why don't we figure out where planned structures will be, too? Grey and I both have projects down south in the future, and I also need to find a spot for my other secret project. I know Robo has his project and others their own, too. I think we can make better use of space by planning *everything* ahead of time.
Also, before we do much more with proposing/building lines, why don't we figure out where planned structures will be, too? Grey and I both have projects down south in the future, and I also need to find a spot for my other secret project. I know Robo has his project and others their own, too. I think we can make better use of space by planning *everything* ahead of time.
I agree with this 100%. I think my current project might work best with dedicated rails (they will be on the ground, and I may be using detector rails for special effects) but it definitely makes sense to have a plan for future skyway/rail extensions. :) (I don't want skyways too close to my new project, for example.)
That western leg of the lime green line that gets all janky? Not happening. I'm losing my hard-on for these fucking things, because they've already eye-sored my place up quite enough, thanks.
Heh. Now that I've read the rest of the thread, it may not be an issue. ;)
Either way though, I'm putting a kibosh on any plans that include or impact any of my project areas unless previously discussed and approved by yours truly. Ta.
drewprops
2011-05-10, 01:32
Brad, I see that you've been busy down by Robo's old cabin.... took a ride in your mini-coaster test and got dumped in the ocean!!! Underground rail lines aren't a bad idea. I went out to Turtle's on his underground line and the scenery was boring, but it was convenient.
...
If the lime line happens, there's no reason it couldn't go straight across. I just thought it made sense to use the existing station.
Also, I thought the rails around Flaming Mountain looked really cool :) In addition to being transportation, they make it easier to tour everybody's stuff. I don't go out there much.
But I'm holding off on the purple line indefinitely. I think the lines we have right now are enough until the performance is improved.
RowdyScot
2011-05-10, 02:23
So what would you propose we do, 709? Not wanting to step on toes, but I'd like a bit more convenient line towards my place without making everything ugly, too. Any way we can come to an agreement?
billybobsky
2011-05-10, 09:21
I will be adding a one off underground line to the hostile trap from spawn/bp -- I will need permission from folks to build an entrance to the station when the time comes. I would prefer if this line not connect to any others, which probably won't be a problem since other than turtle no one else is going underground. I do not want ANY lines on the skywalks near the Ranch, so most (all) of the Purple line is not wanted or needed. This is particularly the case since it will interfere with previously existing structures like the former stair tower at Spawn, the Water Dong, the entrance to the ranch, as well as Grey's elegant skywalks, which will get fouled up by the expansion.
Also: I don't know where P5 was supposed to be, but just to be sure: No one is to build anything on the ranch without ME asking them to do so.
My only suggestion is putting a line that terminates over the center of the passive trap, where people can get out and walk down the stairs to the trap surface.
On a more general note: I do think the sky centered minecart system, while certainly minimal, is still somewhat of an eyesore. I like turtle's small underground station entrance in Bridgeport. It is a simple walk down and you start your journey, which has exactly two conveniently placed stops (for him). It might be a boring ride, but honestly, if you were out for the views you would walk everywhere. While it may not be possible to completely avoid mines and caves with an underground system, if the number of lines added are minimized, the deleterious effect would also be minimal. It isn't as if the entire mine is compromised. Structures present a different level of hassle, but are easily avoided by building around them underground.
I see only a few lines that are really needed. Moving people to distant points, or population centers. It isn't as if a station is necessary to get out of a minecart, you can jump out while moving.
So what would you propose we do, 709? Not wanting to step on toes, but I'd like a bit more convenient line towards my place without making everything ugly, too. Any way we can come to an agreement?A line from L1 to W2 would accomplish the same thing, and make things more convenient for you coming from the passive trap or any point south.
If the lime line happens, there's no reason it couldn't go straight across. I just thought it made sense to use the existing station.
Also, I thought the rails around Flaming Mountain looked really cool :) In addition to being transportation, they make it easier to tour everybody's stuff. I don't go out there much.The upper skyway kind of ends in my living room, so the best way would probably be to follow the diagonal north to the mid-way station I mentioned earlier. Before doing anything I need to look at how to best incorporate it though.
I suppose I'll get used to the cobble lines around FM... at least they fit in OK with the rest. I kind of hate every addition I do to FM at the beginning, but they've all grown on me to where I like them now.
I'm building the west line out from the island where the skyways meet, between Temple and Flaming Mountain Stations.What about making this a single line for now? Might make more sense now that we suspect rails impact performance (and really, what are the chances 2 whole people are going to be using that line at the same time? ;)). Also, the water tracks are kind of fugly. :\ I think we're going to have to move the exit lines north of the station there. Although, maybe with only one track it might look a little better.
arteggio
2011-05-10, 10:04
What about making this a single line for now? Might make more sense now that we suspect rails impact performance (and really, what are the chances 2 whole people are going to be using that line at the same time? ;)). Also, the water tracks are kind of fugly. :\ I think we're going to have to move the exit lines north of the station there. Although, maybe with only one track it might look a little better.
Single's fine. Pretty much only the to-west side has been built anyway.
I was wondering if you might have disdain for the water tracks, especially after your comment of tracks eye-soring your place. ;) I'll remove the second line from the water, or just move the single line out the north end of the island if you want. Let me know.
billybobsky
2011-05-10, 10:07
Okay. I'll link the top half to L2. No problems with Apple Store -> Mob Grinder, right? It's all along existing track anyways, and it'll bring the network to the spawn point.
Just to be clear if you don't see my previous post: this is NOT OK, at all.
I think the Purple line should be canceled.
SpecMode
2011-05-10, 11:45
Don't take this the wrong way, but isn't it ever so slightly ironic for the guy who built a giant floating island in the sky to be complaining about eyesores? ;)
Don't take this the wrong way, but isn't it ever so slightly ironic for the guy who built a giant floating island in the sky to be complaining about eyesores? ;)
And insisting that people don't interfere with it?
Oh, the irony isn't lost on me one bit. :lol:
billybobsky
2011-05-10, 12:08
No, I don't think it is ironic.
The SkyRanch doesn't cover the map, it isn't seen from every vantage point, every walkway. It wasn't purpose built as a community endeavor. It is MY major project, it was intentionally designed to be intimidating (which it has effected quite nicely), and when I started building it, it was very far removed from the center of town.
I don't like the passive aggressiveness I get for having built the skyranch. So honestly, Brad, SpecMode, and all others who have given me shit, fuck off. I am serious, I am this >< close to tnting that entire section of map which of course includes the trap...
Also: Specifically to Brad, you really honestly feel like people should be able to modify other people's work on the map? Really, truly? Because I have some ideas I'd like to work out.
SpecMode
2011-05-10, 12:27
I don't like the passive aggressiveness I get for having built the skyranch. So honestly, Brad, SpecMode, and all others who have given me shit, fuck off. I am serious, I am this >< close to tnting that entire section of map which of course includes the trap...
Your sense of humor obviously seems to have taken the day off. (There's a reason I included the ;) in my post, after all). And no, I will not 'fuck off'; just as you had the right to build that giant floating island, we retain the right to poke fun at you for it. (And I'll be honest here, I don't really mind having the thing around, and the trap is in fact badass, as I'm certain I've mentioned to you before). Take a chill pill, dude, nobody is going to mess with your stuff, and anyone who tries will be dealt with just as harshly as those who mess with anyone else's stuff.
Just to be clear if you don't see my previous post: this is NOT OK, at all.
Yes, per the bottom of the post with the that map:
bbsky, as requested the construction anything under the skyranch is up to you. But I think it should stop at the hostile trap. Doesn't really matter where it comes out.
I put question marks on the map because I knew you wanted to handle the construction. I knew we would need a route the grinder, and I wanted to give it an easy connection to the white line.
If you want to make it underground, that's fine. Just make sure there isn't anything in the way. :)
But that said, I think we should have a map-wide moratorium on rail construction so we can better evaluate the effects they have on performance and aesthetics. If everyone thinks they're ugly* and if the lag is unbearable for some players, then they may be more trouble than they are worth.
*But am I the only one who thinks they look really cool? Especially the ones at Flaming Mountain.
billybobsky
2011-05-10, 12:29
Your sense of humor obviously seems to have taken the day off. (There's a reason I included the ;) in my post, after all). And no, I will not 'fuck off'; just as you had the right to build that giant floating island, we retain the right to poke fun at you for it. (And I'll be honest here, I don't really mind having the thing around, and the trap is in fact badass, as I'm certain I've mentioned to you before). Take a chill pill, dude, nobody is going to mess with your stuff, and anyone who tries will be dealt with just as harshly as those who mess with anyone else's stuff.
I've had a bad week.
I don't like the passive aggressiveness I get for having built the skyranch.
I think I was open about my opposition from the start once you marked off the full perimeter. :p
Also: Specifically to Brad, you really honestly feel like people should be able to modify other people's work on the map? Really, truly? Because I have some ideas I'd like to work out.
I just think the juxtaposition of "I'm gonna quarter off this massive section of the map near spawn but never actually finish building on it!" with "don't build eyesores!" and "don't touch my junk!" is really funny.
billybobsky
2011-05-10, 13:10
I just think the juxtaposition of "I'm gonna quarter off this massive section of the map near spawn but never actually finish building on it!" with "don't build eyesores!" and "don't touch my junk!" is really funny.
Just because you have the ability to call resources out of thin air and have no need to mine, dig and stockpile to construct your projects, does not mean the rest of us don't actively have to pursue resource collection, in a way that would not leave vast open scars on the landscape. To get the 140K of dirt I needed for the ranch, I could have simply opened a wound somewhere up north and not worried about filling it back in to make it look presentable, or I could have done what I did, which is to carefully level the area under the ranch, keeping it lit, and leaving it presentable and clean. I honestly do not think you have a realistic perception on how much effort it takes to construct things without magic.
Unlike most other players on the map I have focused ALL of my attention to the area around and under the ranch. I helped with the communal passive trap because it was based upon my design, and is in sight of the ranch. I improved the hostile trap, again, because it was my design and I saw a need for enhanced efficiency when in 1.4 mobs weren't dropping as regularly. These actions weren't selfishly focused on finishing the ranch, because that isn't who I am. I like doing things that actively help other users on the map. The mob traps are my best output from that, and I make no apologies for speaking my mind when it comes to aesthetics, both of what I build for myself (hence don't touch my junk) and what others build.
Regardless, if you actually cared to even look at the map, you would have noticed much progress has been made on the ranch. So really, Brad, what is your excuse?
SpecMode
2011-05-10, 14:00
[...] does not mean the rest of us don't actively have to pursue resource collection, in a way that would not leave vast open scars on the landscape.
Mushroom Mountain Crater, anyone? ;) :p
(In your favor, I do remember that you had some extensive...help from a certain someone (http://forums.applenova.com/member.php?u=61) who seems to really like blowing things up/burning things down... :D )
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