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Bryson
2012-01-12, 13:35
Could someone please explain what's going on, instead of muttering cryptically?

billybobsky
2012-01-12, 13:46
i got banned after i and the atoll was set ablaze by a lightning strike from Brad. RowdyScot was responsible for the timing of it (acting as a terribly incompetent lookout man; no surprise there, to be honest) and so incurred my wrath, which was a single piece of tnt set off in his kitchen.

In retrospect, I wish I had used more tnt.

RowdyScot
2012-01-12, 14:03
That's not the full extent - you were being rather vicious towards Robo. The conversation itself was happening during a thunderstorm, and some of your comments begged for you to be ironically struck by lightning. Had you been outside, as I'd last seen you, no real harm would have been done. There was never an intent to strike you inside or cause damage to your structure - just to strike you for being an asshole to send the message to stop being an asshole.

None of this would have happened had you not started verbally assaulting Robo unprovoked.

Bryson
2012-01-12, 14:29
Well, that explains much of it. Now, what is 709 muttering about?

billybobsky
2012-01-12, 14:36
I explained to robo why I was calling him an asshat. I stand by that and I have no (real) beef with him.

On the other hand, what was happening in the chat did not involve destruction of work, that escalation was yours and Brad's alone, and had I actually been in the rain no retribution would have been needed because no damage would have been done. But damage was done, and it was because you failed to actually account for where I was in my structure -- you messaged brad when I was in my kitchen (not in the rain). It is your fault Brad's lightning took on a destructive aspect, and you took the damage for it. Now note: the fire could have decimated my project since all of the floors are build out of flammable material. It didn't happen, thankfully, but it *could* have. I set of the tnt knowing full well the damage would be contained and readily repaired.

billybobsky
2012-01-12, 14:36
Well, that explains much of it. Now, what is 709 muttering about?
Turtleland's unclaimed creep...

Bryson
2012-01-12, 14:46
Yay! I'm in the clear. I didn't lightning bolt anyone, or TNT anyone's kitchen or build a hut on anything.

I was somewhat concerned as I set off A LOT of TNT last night to take down a hill behind my Arts Centre, and I was wondering if some had got loose somehow.

709
2012-01-12, 15:38
Well, that explains much of it. Now, what is 709 muttering about?

Turtleland's unclaimed creep...

More specifically the takeover of all ocean/sunset land close to town:

http://i40.tinypic.com/35ap28p.jpg

Had that much land (especially so close to town and given its value for city expansion) been requested in the proper way it would have been shot down by everyone. Instead, a huge chunk of prime real estate is wasted on mostly carry-over structures.

I'm not sure why Turtle thinks he's the only one immune to what we all decided are the right procedures to go through in requesting and getting land claims approved, but it's annoying to say the least. There's a reason the rules, land claims, etc. threads evolved from months of us building a world together.

I like his wife and daughter playing in our world - that's actually fun - and he could obviously claim land for them. That it hasn't happened leads me to believe since the world currently resides on his server he doesn't need to follow the guidelines we've put in place.

RowdyScot
2012-01-12, 16:02
Your "explanation" in-game made absolutely no sense, Bruce, and you still came across as verbally assaulting Robo unprovoked. Your ego won't let you think you did anything wrong, but all of us were uncomfortable with what you were saying. Again, if you behaved like most people and didn't randomly verbally assault others, none of this would have happened.

There was no intent to destroy anything of yours by either Brad or myself. I checked on your location to verify that you were out in the open, which when I'd TPed back, you were. I had no reason to think you were going inside anywhere, and the timing was quick enough that I figured you wouldn't get inside anywhere, regardless. I'm willing to apologize for that, but I need to see you apologize to Robo before I go there.

As for your "contained" TNT blast, it destroyed several high-enchanted items that I realistically can't replace in any quick timeframe. You likely did far more damage to me than the lightning strike to you. Intentional griefing aside, that isn't what really bugs me...

As much as you continue to pin this on me, the fact is YOU verbally assaulted someone UNPROVOKED. Furthermore, this is the 4th time I've seen you do this to Robo in the past month. There's a pattern of behavior there, and there's no place for it. Is it *really* that much to ask for a person to not just randomly verbally attack others?

billybobsky
2012-01-12, 16:35
Your "explanation" in-game made absolutely no sense, Bruce, and you still came across as verbally assaulting Robo unprovoked. Your ego won't let you think you did anything wrong, but all of us were uncomfortable with what you were saying. Again, if you behaved like most people and didn't randomly verbally assault others, none of this would have happened.

I merely called him an asshat, repeatedly. There was no depth there; if i wanted to attack robo for something he would be feeling it for a long time after. It was nothing and I will not apologize for it. I don't know if you have noticed, but robo and i go back and forth with the insults/attempts to make uncomfortable. It isn't malicious for my part.



There was no intent to destroy anything of yours by either Brad or myself.

Intent doesn't matter. My stuff was destroyed.

I checked on your location to verify that you were out in the open, which when I'd TPed back, you were.

False. When you tl'd back, I was at a window looking at you sink to the bottom of the sea.

I'm willing to apologize for that, but I need to see you apologize to Robo before I go there.

I don't want your apology, I don't respect you enough for it to mean anything, so thanks, but no thanks.

As for your "contained" TNT blast, it destroyed several high-enchanted items that I realistically can't replace in any quick timeframe.

That is a lie. Having played with TNT quite a bit more than anyone else in the game, I can assure you since there was only one (1) explosion no items could possibly have been destroyed that were either on you or in a chest. Go ahead, test it. I knew what i was doing unlike you and Brad. It doesn't need to be pointed out, as it is obvious to everyone, you like to whine about perceived slights and tend to exaggerate. REDACTED. This whining personality tick pisses me off most and makes you coming at me the most ridiculous thing I can imagine.

You likely did far more damage to me than the lightning strike to you. Intentional griefing aside, that isn't what really bugs me...

Is it really griefing when the act was in response to you and Brad's idiocy? Nah.

As much as you continue to pin this on me, the fact is YOU verbally assaulted someone UNPROVOKED. Furthermore, this is the 4th time I've seen you do this to Robo in the past month. There's a pattern of behavior there, and there's no place for it. Is it *really* that much to ask for a person to not just randomly verbally attack others?

Verbally attack? Calling robo an asshat and explaining to him why I did it -- which was and is the truth constitutes a verbal attack? What does talking shit about other players when they aren't on mean then, RS? You aren't some saint. In fact, you are the only asshole I see in the game.

709
2012-01-12, 18:10
ms
asshat:10

FUUUUUUU. :( :( :(


I died. :wtf:

drewprops
2012-01-12, 19:03
STop it Stop IT stOP it!!!

/doesn't take conflict well



...

709
2012-01-12, 19:09
ms
captdrew:10

*sexytimes*

wooooooo!!!!!

709
2012-01-12, 19:14
/doesn't take conflict wellA little conflict is good to hash out community beefs. I have no problem with anyone here on a personal level.

Well... maybe one. But that's AN as a whole, not MC.

turtle
2012-01-12, 19:45
Since the only part that actually applies to me is about the land claim issues then this is the area I'm going to share my point of view.

Well, while everyone was working on getting into the desert, Mrs T and I claimed the land you see us holding now. We did this long before there was talk about an approval process. Everyone focused on the desert while we stayed into the rainy part of the woods with the exception of the House of the Risen Son. Torches laid and the whole bit. We are in the suburbs of the town center. For the two of us moving projects from the old worlds to here, the Cactus farm is the only building for me. The House of the Risen Son and Beacon of Hope are Mrs T's projects moved in.

LS grabbed the land in front of The Opulent Sartor Shoppe for her own to be close to us. Shocking that our daughter would like to have land near us.

The fact that my wife has had much to deal with in her personal life coupled with antics that have since laced this thread are why you all see her less and less. She would be happily completing her projects and enjoying the game as much as the rest of you otherwise.

For the sake of all in this thread I only did a cursory glance over. Likely will keep it at that. Personal attacks aren't needed from anyone or to anyone.

If it's such a big deal that we have the land we have had, I'll move my cactus farm. I don't really mind. It's only a game guys. Really, it's only a game.

billybobsky
2012-01-12, 20:11
709 was right... the quote was complete with 'its only a game'.

Turtle: the formal process was set up way back when in BP and had continued apace with the new world(s).

It isn't necessary but it might be a good gesture to move some of the larger buildings to land further afield. Right now a lot of the concern is that the structures dominate a significant fraction of the usable skyline around terranova (and that the resource excesses of the structures are simply untenable). It might be nice, sooner or later for there to be a ocean front area of the terranova development. The reason the development has moved east and south is because no one wants to see the castle, I am afraid.

Just my b& 2cents...

709
2012-01-12, 20:27
Well, while everyone was working on getting into the desert, Mrs T and I claimed the land you see us holding now.[citation needed]
We did this long before there was talk about an approval process.April, 2011 (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=35781)
Everyone focused on the desert while we stayed into the rainy part of the woods with the exception of the House of the Risen Son. Torches laid and the whole bit. We are in the suburbs of the town center. For the two of us moving projects from the old worlds to here, the Cactus farm is the only building for me. The House of the Risen Son and Beacon of Hope are Mrs T's projects moved in. And your claim to all that land is where? Torches my ass. And who cares who's project is whose? You moved all of them over with no regard for other players wishes.
LS grabbed the land in front of The Opulent Sartor Shoppe for her own to be close to us. Shocking that our daughter would like to have land near us.My god. Really? That's what you're going for? To LS's credit, she initiated some in-game chatter about her building on that spot. Sure, she didn't post about it (that was your job), but at least she was conscious of a sense of play.
The fact that my wife has had much to deal with in her personal life coupled with antics that have since laced this thread are why you all see her less and less. She would be happily completing her projects and enjoying the game as much as the rest of you otherwise.Antics? Don't be coy.
For the sake of all in this thread I only did a cursory glance over. Likely will keep it at that. Personal attacks aren't needed from anyone or to anyone."For the sake of all in this thread" ? Christ. Listen, you have 2 jobs as a "mod" in MC. Turn night to day and give unobtainable loot. That's it. I know you love to tinker with the buttons and knobs, but at the end of the day that's all we want and expect from you. That you even instantly put a ban on someone after hearing something third-hand proves you're not fit to be an admin. You're a reactionary.
If it's such a big deal that we have the land we have had, I'll move my cactus farm. I don't really mind.Move everything besides the farm (which was planted during the frontier days) and the lighthouse. That'll be enough. Thanks.
It's only a game guys. Really, it's only a game.This is exactly what I said you would say.

turtle
2012-01-12, 22:02
You win Grey. I shall shower you with gold. How dare I not know my place. Good thing you are totally right here on every point. Good work.

Look out, there's a leprechaun behind you! ;)

709
2012-01-12, 22:07
Shower me with glowstone and we'll call it even ;)


Mcl'SSSSSS..... *BOOM*

:(

709
2012-01-13, 01:40
New rule:

If you are just standing around for more than an hour not collecting trap loot or anything you can be killed so others playing can reset the day/night clock.


I'm waiting for my chests of glowstone T.

drewprops
2012-01-13, 11:45
So wait, did you guys take Bruce off the whitelist? Is he banned for real?

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 12:39
Banned for realzy.

drewprops
2012-01-13, 13:04
For how long? It sounds to me as if there were at least TWO griefers, one of them being one of my favorite mods. This is stupid. Repair your shit. Don't say anything to each other in-game and get along with your business. This is a stinky banination.


...

Elysium
2012-01-13, 15:41
For how long? It sounds to me as if there were at least TWO griefers, one of them being one of my favorite mods. This is stupid. Repair your shit. Don't say anything to each other in-game and get along with your business. This is a stinky banination.


...
I believe it was only until the next day as I was on when the unban command came through.

Unless there was a secondary ban post-Wednesday, then bb should be on the WL.

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 15:48
I have been banned for two weeks.

Robo
2012-01-13, 16:40
For how long? It sounds to me as if there were at least TWO griefers, one of them being one of my favorite mods. This is stupid. Repair your shit. Don't say anything to each other in-game and get along with your business. This is a stinky banination.


...

I don't know. Despite bobsky's protestation to the contrary, I'm pretty sure intent does matter when throwing around terms like "griefers." Someone who only inadvertently damages something isn't termed a griefer in any game I've ever played. (Which is a lot of games. :p)

Jesus, I've been struck by lightning by Brad before, and I didn't consider that "being griefed" or somehow need to blow up his (or, er, Rowdy's) house to "make things right" or whatever. But then again, I'm not Disproportionate Response Man. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2404) ;)

AppleNova and mc.applenova.com aren't democracies. This is a Good Thing.™ I'm not sure having everybody publicly weigh in with their opinion on the justness of a ban is a good thing. (But if we were, count me in the "for" column. :D)

I have been banned for two weeks.

You'll live. (Won't you be busy doing the whole moving-to-Europe thing anyway?)

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 17:06
Oh I am not complaining about the ban, just the assholes who set fire to my construction...

Robo
2012-01-13, 17:38
Oh I am not complaining about the ban, just the assholes who set fire to my construction...

I thought Rowdy was the only asshole you saw in the game. Now there are assholes, plural. (I am, of course, an asshat, not an asshole, but I'm sure the etymology is similar.)

Perhaps, for convenience's sake, you could provide us with a list of the people that you actually respect? I'm sure it'd be a much shorter list.

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 18:04
I was using the term relatively loosely there, Jack.

ie, I don't like Jordan. I don't like how he talks about other people behind their backs. I don't like how he uses complaints about everything as a major form of conversation. I don't like his exaggerations or his sense of entitlement. So to sum up: I don't like Jordan. He's fine on these here boards, mostly, but in game, I cannot stand him, and I have a sense that who he is in game is who he is irl, so again I don't like Jordan.


The rest of you schmucks, I have no issue with. Though many will have issues with me, certainly, that is the cost of having my personality and my lack of tact.

Robo
2012-01-13, 18:55
I was using the term relatively loosely there, Jack.

ie, I don't like Jordan. I don't like how he talks about other people behind their backs. I don't like how he uses complaints about everything as a major form of conversation. I don't like his exaggerations or his sense of entitlement. So to sum up: I don't like Jordan. He's fine on these here boards, mostly, but in game, I cannot stand him, and I have a sense that who he is in game is who he is irl, so again I don't like Jordan.

Well, I'm glad you removed "I respect you and everybody else besides Jordan" when you edited this post, because I honestly don't believe you respect anybody. I've simply never read anything that suggested that you did to the slightest.

You're right, "sociopath" is a much better word for you.

(The bolded part is maximum funneh, coming from somebody who doesn't seem to like anything ever, and isn't afraid to say so. :p)

The rest of you schmucks, I have no issue with.

Until we attract your "wrath," of course. Or dare to be wrong about something. Or interact with you in any way, really. Or even interact with other people in a way you don't like. Then we're asshats.

Though many will have issues with me, certainly, that is the cost of having my personality and my lack of tact.

You could change if you wanted to. You just don't want to, either because you've convinced yourself that people taking issues with your personality is everybody else's problem, or because you've convinced yourself that it's your lack of empathy that makes you superior to everyone else. Personally, I think it's a bit of both.

Since we're being honest, I think people would find you a lot more likable if you just started respecting them and viewing them as equals. But you'd rather be right than liked, and you're always right in your head, so what use is it being human?

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 19:44
Well, I'm glad you removed "I respect you and everybody else besides Jordan" when you edited this post, because I honestly don't believe you respect anybody. I've simply never read anything that suggested that you did to the slightest.

I don't think you understand respect. I don't think you have any sense of who any of us are in any context beyond these words. You have never actually sat down to consider that I actually exist, and maintain relationships, friendships and interactions with all sorts of people. Science is a social endeavor; part of the reason why I do it. So to be fair to your utterly lacking thoughts on this: bullshit. You don't know me. You cannot even pretend to know me. Oh sure, you have a fuzzy playful image of me (709 has me with mole-eyes), but what you read here and how I interact with the people here has as much to do with the medium and who they present themselves to be here.

You're right, "sociopath" is a much better word for you.

Quite. Only, I would never be identified as one in any rigorous psychological test. I have a profound sense of the value of truth above all else. I am frankly too honest. This is a major impediment to being an actual sociopath. My approach to honesty borders on religious fervor, and can be quite grueling to deal with, I am sure. The constant testing behaviors coupled with how I actually live on a day to day basis puts me in the schizoid camp -- hell, I even have the unloving childhood thought to contribute to such behaviors. But you know what, I don't care about how I am perceived and that is what bothers people. I simply do not care, like, at all. It's ok. I know that many people have fears over the public's perception of them (hell people care about how they look), but that isn't a part of me. It will never be a part of me.





You could change if you wanted to. You just don't want to, either because you've convinced yourself that people taking issues with your personality is everybody else's problem, or because you've convinced yourself that it's your lack of empathy that makes you superior to everyone else. Personally, I think it's a bit of both.

You have said this multiple times. I don't lack empathy. I really truly don't. There's a difference between holding the value of truth over that of the immediate emotional response of another person and lacking empathy. I know that my words can cause anguish. I write them anyway because the truth will set you free so to speak. When the choice is between what I perceive to be truth and the other person's emotional well being, I go with the truth -- it is a flaw, perhaps, but it is one of the things that defines me.

I don't feel superior to others. I don't believe myself to be superior to others. It bothers me immensely when people suggest that I do or am. I have a well-developed ego, but I am not particularly arrogant. I am aware of my faults, hell I discuss them openly on this fucking forum, and these faults have and will continue to come in the way of my life's development. But to suggest that I feel myself to be particularly superior to others is anathema to my ethical core.

709
2012-01-13, 19:44
2 weeks is too long. I don't know who came up with that random amount, but it's wrong. bobsky has been more helpful than detrimental in the scheme of things (across every world, mind you), so at the very least I'd urge that sentence to be cut in half if not more.

I wasn't there that night and have no access to the transcripts, but I can't believe is was egregious enough to earn a half-month ban. That's just ridiculous.

Robo
2012-01-13, 20:04
I don't think you understand respect. I don't think you have any sense of who any of us are in any context beyond these words. You have never actually sat down to consider that I actually exist, and maintain relationships, friendships and interactions with all sorts of people. Science is a social endeavor; part of the reason why I do it. So to be fair to your utterly lacking thoughts on this: bullshit. You don't know me. You cannot even pretend to know me. Oh sure, you have a fuzzy playful image of me (709 has me with mole-eyes), but what you read here and how I interact with the people here has as much to do with the medium and who they present themselves to be here.

Which is why I said I've never read anything to suggest that you respected anyone. Which is the truth. You say you value the truth above all else, right? Don't get upset when people give it to you, then.

But you know what, I don't care about how I am perceived and that is what bothers people.

It's actually you being a jerk, coupled with not caring that people think you're a jerk, that bothers people.

You have said this multiple times. I don't lack empathy. I really truly don't. There's a difference between holding the value of truth over that of the immediate emotional response of another person and lacking empathy. I know that my words can cause anguish. I write them anyway because the truth will set you free so to speak. When the choice is between what I perceive to be truth and the other person's emotional well being, I go with the truth -- it is a flaw, perhaps, but it is one of the things that defines me.

I don't feel superior to others. I don't believe myself to be superior to others. It bothers me immensely when people suggest that I do or am. I have a well-developed ego, but I am not particularly arrogant. I am aware of my faults, hell I discuss them openly on this fucking forum, and these faults have and will continue to come in the way of my life's development. But to suggest that I feel myself to be particularly superior to others is anathema to my ethical core.

You may think so, but actions speak louder than words. Now I'm thinking you just aren't self-aware. You know. To be truthful.

709
2012-01-13, 20:12
I don't feel superior to others. I don't believe myself to be superior to others. It bothers me immensely when people suggest that I do or am.To be fair, that's utter crap. A large part of why I like you is your sense of being superior to others and will say so unabashed. Don't go all soft on me now.

Bringing up RC threads in the general populous is a no-no though. That's a bad. :\

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 20:17
Excuse me? Bringing that up here is totally inappropriate and I think you know that.
I am not sure it is so clearly inappropriate, but have removed reference because you feel betrayed (i recommend changing your own post). It was the most recent 'public' example of something you have expressed concern about in people's perception of you. If you would have had me delete it, I would have but then you go ahead and quote the damn thing, so disingenuous much?

And to think, you were puzzled/upset when I tweeted that you were the reason I didn't want to post about sensitive issues any more. I do so once more, against my better judgement, and you end up using it as ammo in an argument in a totally inappropriate forum. Thanks for that. (And you wonder why I feel like you don't respect me, and you want me to give you the benefit of the doubt in the future?)

Ammo? I am not fighting with you Jack. Really I am not. This discussion is so far afield from where this thread started and you have no one to blame for that but yourself. You wanted to talk about me. Fine. We did so. Don't start complaining at me when I cite relevant known data about yourself.

In any event, the point was relevant to the discussion of me that you created and how I unlike you (citation needed) don't give a shit how I am perceived. I have now changed the post to reflect your and grey's protest.



You may think so, but actions speak louder than words. Now I'm thinking you just aren't self-aware. You know. To be truthful.

Skynet has yet to become self-aware.

billybobsky
2012-01-13, 20:24
To be fair, that's utter crap. A large part of why I like you is your sense of being superior to others and will say so unabashed. Don't go all soft on me now.

Bringing up RC threads in the general populous is a no-no though. That's a bad. :\

I think there's a difference between thinking one's opinions and thoughts to be better supported and more *insert subjective phrase here* than believing oneself to be superior. It may be a fine point, but it is an important one to me. I am owed and deserve nothing even though my opinions and thoughts are more refined (this is not stated as a fact, just a hypothetical) because I am not superior. See my point? (Of course you do).

709
2012-01-13, 21:06
I understand the differentiation, of course. But that's you in any sense that I've ever known you. You've always taken (and given) credit where due, and to try and peel the credit layer apart from yourself seems a little disingenuous, and somehow avoiding something I'm not entirely sure why you would.

You're obviously talented in your field, so, say you come across something that would shower you with accolades. You're not going to take credit? "My ego (Freudian) would like to thank you all for this honor."

There is no magic that absolves you from becoming a conglomerate of what you think yourself is and what your mind actually is. It just isn't so, and trying to separate the two is sticky, at best.



Regardless. 2 weeks is too fucking long. It feels random and stupid.

Elysium
2012-01-13, 22:49
Oh for f*ck sakes people... :no: Disclaimer: In no place do I intend these to be ad hominem attacks, so don't take anything out of context. :)

Alright let's deal with the principal parts of the matter.

I'm a scientist, similar to BB although in a different field. I can understand the way he interacts with others with respect to his "truthiness". I've met people with more and less the same level of tact. He has opinions and he expresses them. I myself put being truthful over seeing myself as false or as a hypocrite. I may not be as vocal as BB about my opinions as I have developed a sort of "f*ck em" mode, but I respect the right he has to say them.

To RS, I left that night before the major meltdown that is leading to this airing of dirty laundry. Like 709 I don't have transcripts to read to know what was said or the progress of events leading up to the escalation. I will say this I respect you as well with your opinions on life and hockey (even if the Leafs suck ;) ). But the big brother act for Robo with BB just seems over the top with me. TPing to a person in order to make sure they can be punished is just, well... lame. This nonsense with BB is just that, ridiculous.

Robo, you are as unique person that I have talked to. At times you can be over the top, but I tune it out, I screen it. You are overly sensitive at times though. If someone says something about you that you find offensive, then f*ck 'em. You are you and nobody can take that away from you. You don't need people "sticking up" for you and creating this mess. Stand up in the first place tell BB to piss off and we don't have RS trying to stick up for you and the needless escalation of punishment. I can probably say that BB may retract your "asshattery" if you call him to the carpet in the first place.

Turtle, I think you, your wife, and daughter are integral parts of our community. I appreciate that you let us move on to your server for better service in which to enjoy our world. I feel that each of you gives back to the community at large in your own way. Back in the old world it was nice to wander away from downtown BP with all of us contributing to the town with separate areas for our own individual establishments. The key was that all of us were outside of vicinity of town to give each other some space. We did this in BP, Sedona, and Loch Green. Small establishments are the key around town in TerraNova. We took this new world as a new step in city planning with many players in order to get it right from the beginning. The biggest crux of people's complaints is the Mrs_T's castle and the ever present expansion of the compound. This behavior was fine in BP in Turtle Ranch and Turtle Park. It's just too close in the new world. However, the castle and to a lesser extent the Sartor shop dominate the skyline in the NW quarter of the new town and people are put off from building there. I love Mrs T's creativity and her joy in the game, however these structures where they are currently located don't work. Sorry. :( Maybe slightly north near the lighthouse and the cactus house may have worked better, but the fact of the matter is that something large and dominant was constructed without community input for the aesthetics of town. :\

Creative mode vs survival is a non issue. To each their own. :|

I may have overstepped myself in building my tower where it is, and am willing to cut out some height for the greater good now that I have established a foothold in the western snow biome. You are all creative and unique individuals and I appreciate working with you. Everybody has had something to add to the community to make it a better place. I don't feel that a 2 week ban is justified for BB, because it doesn't prove anything other than we have some serious issues to work out. I feel we are better served to hash them out both here and in MC and as such need BB around.

So come on people, band together. :|

turtle
2012-01-13, 23:27
...

Turtle, I think you, your wife, and daughter are integral parts of our community. I appreciate that you let us move on to your server for better service in which to enjoy our world. I feel that each of you gives back to the community at large in your own way. Back in the old world it was nice to wander away from downtown BP with all of us contributing to the town with separate areas for our own individual establishments. The key was that all of us were outside of vicinity of town to give each other some space. We did this in BP, Sedona, and Loch Green. Small establishments are the key around town in TerraNova. We took this new world as a new step in city planning with many players in order to get it right from the beginning. The biggest crux of people's complaints is the Mrs_T's castle and the ever present expansion of the compound. This behavior was fine in BP in Turtle Ranch and Turtle Park. It's just too close in the new world. However, the castle and to a lesser extent the Sartor shop dominate the skyline in the NW quarter of the new town and people are put off from building there. I love Mrs T's creativity and her joy in the game, however these structures where they are currently located don't work. Sorry. :( Maybe slightly north near the lighthouse and the cactus house may have worked better, but the fact of the matter is that something large and dominant was constructed without community input for the aesthetics of town. :\

Well said. As I said in my previous post, if it is really that much of a problem I will move the structures that need to move. Sadly, Mrs T actually built the castle with all of you in mind. Her idea was to give a nice grand structure to the community. At this point, it's her structure and I'm not really planning to move it. I'm open to options for what needs to be moved however. The castle isn't' actually blocking anyone's view because of the slope of the land behind it. There will be no gain if it's removed due to the slope of the land.

...
I don't feel that a 2 week ban is justified for BB, because it doesn't prove anything other than we have some serious issues to work out. I feel we are better served to hash them out both here and in MC and as such need BB around.

I didn't make those choices on my own and I did consult all individuals before enacting the final decision on the ban time. Both of the server admins gave input on this. Yes I banned quick off the start, but lifted it when I realized I was reacting without hearing from all sides. I PM'ed those involved and did what was needed.

So come on people, band together. :|

Yeah, this would be nice. The server used to be a nice place until it became a place of hostility and discontent. Not much fun to play on right now either. Sad really, I love this game and enjoy most of the players on here.

709
2012-01-14, 00:25
You need to move the castle, the lapis thing and the gold temple North of the lighthouse. The "discontent" you mention is in no small part related to you and your placing shit with no regard for the community. Have your "creative mode" area, fine, just not near town.

The slope argument is bullshit, and everyone here knows that.


The server in general used to be a nice place. Then we moved to yours and you felt like it gave you carte blanche to do anything you wanted to. We should probably rethink that imo.

billybobsky
2012-01-14, 00:50
Well said. As I said in my previous post, if it is really that much of a problem I will move the structures that need to move. Sadly, Mrs T actually built the castle with all of you in mind. Her idea was to give a nice grand structure to the community. At this point, it's her structure and I'm not really planning to move it. I'm open to options for what needs to be moved however. The castle isn't' actually blocking anyone's view because of the slope of the land behind it. There will be no gain if it's removed due to the slope of the land.

On the contrary, the castle is very much blocking a view of *anything but the castle*. I guess the discussions in the chats and in the other threads isn't getting through to you two, or perhaps you'd rather ignore it but I will make it plain: the castle is ugly. it is big and ugly and this ugliness dominates the skyline. it doesn't matter that there is a hill behind it. a bare hill would be better than the big ugly castle.

Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sentiment of a grand structure for the community, though I do find it convenient that no one was asked whether it would be ok to build a giant monotone ugliness next to the center of town, but the sentiment is nice. However, its like a fruitcake no one asked for. The gift needs to be returned. Hell, it can be moved. It would be better appreciated at a distance, a far far distance. Just to be clear: Mrs. Turtle is perfectly capable of building beautiful structures. Her Loch Greene house was great. The light house is awesome. Sans culturally deaf overtones the house of the risen son is well put together. She just failed with the castle and the sartorial shoppe. Completely. I cannot make it more clear than that. Grey's wish list is indeed shared by almost everyone I have had the chance to engage on this issue. He was honest with you. Just go with that.



I didn't make those choices on my own and I did consult all individuals before enacting the final decision on the ban time.

Oh but you did. Do not push the ban time decision on either RS or Brad. You made the final call, you said it yourself. Own it. Be your own man.

Both of the server admins gave input on this.

You mean the one that set fire to my atoll was given input? How rich. I like Brad. I like you. But conflict of interest and hypocrisy alarms are blaring. Loudly. Be your own man, turtle.

I PM'ed those involved and did what was needed.

Not sure I agree. What is the point of punishment? You either feel it allows for a bad actor to contemplate what they did and 'realize their wrong' or you use it as a threat to further bad acts by other people.

Let's take point 1. If I was in the same situation would I have acted differently? Perhaps, but not because I think what I did was unjustified but because I think everyone who acted 'wrongly' in the situation isn't getting the same 'contemplation' time they need to. Brad and RS should also have been banned. But you know, they worked the system (you turtle, you're the system, Be your own man, turtle) better than I. I thought honesty would be appreciated, but instead lies were. That's is excellent. I know what you prefer, now, turtle. Lies. Good to know. Rethinking that whole 'I like you' thing... So really, this cannot possibly be it, because I would have half a mind to do it over again exactly the same way, just louder and with lies and exaggerations this time. Not the intention, I don't think.

Ok point 2. The punishment wasn't announced. Therefore this couldn't have been it.

So the punishment was completely random. The cited reasons in the PM are a hodgepodge of silliness. Lack of remorse, well duh the act was justified; loss of TONS of supplies (a lie/exaggeration by rs), etc etc.

But as I have stated, I don't care. The 'punishment' lets turtle get on his hobby horse. Brad and RS get to feel righteous indignation. And if they are satisfied with it, then so be it. My life isn't minecraft. It's just a game, after all.


Yeah, this would be nice. The server used to be a nice place until it became a place of hostility and discontent. Not much fun to play on right now either. Sad really, I love this game and enjoy most of the players on here.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the overtly visible abuses of admin privileges near the center of town. Nah. Couldn't be that.

billybobsky
2012-01-14, 00:58
Let me just briefly comment on timing: you probably won't be seeing me much at all on the server any more after the ban expires. I am, after all, moving to England. Still hard to wrap my mind around, to be honest. But the deadline for that is rapidly approaching and then I will be on GMT (EST+5) so no more nightly sorties during the week. You'll be lucky to see my on after 5 pm EST. And this is IF i get internet in my apartment in short order and IF i find playing alone on a server with no one else tolerable.

If the server doesn't blow up in a mysterious conflagration of personalities while I am not even on (how strange would that be, huh), then maybe I will see y'all on weekends...

drewprops
2012-01-14, 01:44
Okay.
I love you all, but I can't join you on this stupid argument over pixels, when the real conflict is about personalities.
I've thought about it and I've thought about it and the deal is,


ON "THE BRUCE INCIDENT"

I like Bruce.

Bruce is a troll.

Bruce has told you over and over that he's a troll. Made it clear.

Troll. Troll. Troll.

Rowdy and Brad stirred up the troll with an in-game attack.

You didn't use your words, you picked up a stick. FIRST.

I see little difference between that and Bruce's response.

Brad and Rowdy should both be banned for a period equal to that of Bruce.

I'm quite serious: there's no equity in what you've done to the troll.

Turtle, I'm officially calling for an appeal on the 2 week ban.

It stinks.

Dellphi tried to blow up one of those thingies with TNT 3 times and it wouldn't blow up.

It's a chore for him to type a lot, but maybe he'll come on and mention that.

Anyway: I'm seriously calling for that appeal.




ON "TURTLELAND"

Yeah, the castle isn't very pretty. I'm not a fan. Wish it was somewhere else.

BUT I like Turtle and Mrs. T a LOT and it's nice to have her in-game.

So I moved.

Wow, problem solved.

We have this great thing called "Teleportation" that lets us go all over the darned place.

Instant elbow room.

But Turtle, that whole "slope" argument is poop. And I know poop.



SHUT THE FUCK UP AND HAVE FUN

I honestly thought this whole thing was a joke at first.

Why not tell me that it was. Everybody go in game and play.

Shut the fuck up with your stupid hard feelings.

Go into a dungeon with the guy you've got a beef with.

Do some stuff together and pull your various panties out of your various cracks.

I have pirating to do, you junior high school pussies*







...



*since Murbot isn't in-game to impart this important bit of advice

709
2012-01-14, 15:40
Agreed. Either remove the ban or expand the ban to cover all parties involved in the attacks.

The issue of Turtle and his thinking that he's above all community guidelines is a problem, and one that should be addressed as a community. That he makes up stupid excuses leads me to believe he knows that he's in the wrong, but we either have to explicitly say that everyone has to follow the guidelines or no one has to follow them.

I'd prefer the former on both counts, but that's just me.

709
2012-01-14, 16:24
Can we move all of this shit to a different thread? Like, MC: The Incident? The Guideline thread is polluted.

drewprops
2012-01-14, 19:57
May I come visit y'all?


...

709
2012-01-14, 21:20
Where the fuck is Brad, btw?

I haven't even seen his new hairdo in person.

Robo
2012-01-14, 21:50
Where the fuck is Brad, btw?

I haven't even seen his new hairdo in person.

:o :o :o :o :o He should log on. :(

If you're reading this Brad, WE MISS YOU <3 <3

His hair is Groosetastic, by the way.

Brad
2012-01-15, 17:05
Until last night, I've been too busy IRL for the last several days to patrol the forums (save for an occasional quick check over lunch) and hadn't logged a minute in the game. It sounds like 709's complaint about turtle's old land grab is being addressed. So, I'll throw in my two cents on "THE BRUCE INCIDENT" as Drew calls is.

Bobsky was verbally abusing Robo (not the first time) during a lighting storm. I jolted him as a "sign from god" to give it a rest. Setting fire to anything was unintentional (and wholly unexpected given that the Bukkit weather wand plugin is configured to not start fires) and, if I had know, I would have help with repairs. That should have been the end of it. Instead, Bobsky decided to turn reactionary and bring malicious "retribution" on RowdyScot by igniting TNT in his house and then acting (at first) as though he did nothing. To further mar his record, Bobsky then posted private, personal details in this thread as an ad hom attack on the other players. These comments have since been edited out, and I didn't see them first-hand, but I've a good enough description of them from different people to know that it was inexcusably out of line. Even if Bobsky's in-game actions weren't enough to enact the ban, and I say they were, the followup actions on the forums would have pushed the decision over the edge.

Our Minecraft server is not an island; it is an extension of the community we have here on these forums. Our Minecraft server is a private server, and the ability to join the game is not a "right" but a privilege of good behavior and being a community member in good standing. Yes, we have some non-forum members on the game server, but they are only allowed to participate by virtue of other forum members having vouched for them, and by extension the forum members have taken responsibility for the visiting players' in-game actions.

I do intend to enforce that membership policy, but we haven't needed to until now. Anyone who disagrees strongly with that is free to leave the game.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 17:48
To further mar his record, Bobsky then posted private, personal details in this thread as an ad hom attack on the other players. These comments have since been edited out, and I didn't see them first-hand, but I've a good enough description of them from different people to know that it was inexcusably out of line.

Seriously? An ad-hom? That's not what it was at all. I wasn't attacking robo AT ALL.

For fuck's sake. This is ridiculous. I should have left the comments in. I am getting tarred for statements that the tar-er didn't even read. Ask Grey, who did in fact see them, if they even rise close to the level of an ad hom.

Regardless of whether they were an ad hom or not, your very signature suggests we have the ability to adjust our posts for editing. It seems more than hypocritical to 'punish' me for choosing to edit a single parenthetical reference to a single comment made elsewhere, which was used in point of fact to contrast myself to the person I was responding to.

I can, in fact, read when my presence isn't wanted.

Robo
2012-01-15, 18:09
It seems more than hypocritical to 'punish' me for choosing to edit a single parenthetical reference to a single comment made elsewhere, which was used in point of fact to contrast myself to the person I was responding to.

Oh, for fucks sake. Editing posts for quality and thoughtful discussion is different than bringing up private shit, then deleting it only after grey (not me) protests. In any case, you're not being "punished" for editing out the private shit. Are you really this dense?

Your "single parenthetical reference" was in fact two rather direct references; after I protested that your bringing up of private shit was inappropriate, you brought it up again, in further detail, to "defend" your bringing it up. And I don't get why you keep on mentioning that bringing up private shit was somehow necessary to provide contrast for your argument or whatever. It's missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter why you really wanted to post Private Shit.™ You crossed a line by posting it.

(I'm pretty sure Brad can still read it if he wants to, anyway.)

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 19:04
Oh, for fucks sake. Editing posts for quality and thoughtful discussion is different than bringing up private shit, then deleting it only after grey (not me) protests. In any case, you're not being "punished" for editing out the private shit. Are you really this dense?

Yes, Jack, I really am that dense because I have found that arguing personality traits, like say my denseness or lack of empathy or what have you, isn't at all an ad hom, because that would just be too much.

You seem to not follow the logic of brad's post to which I was replying. His statement was even IF my in game actions didn't push me into banned territory, my comments (referring here directly to my SINGLE statement of fact about you) certainly put me over the edge. Therefore, I am being 'punished' (look at those beautiful quotes) for an ad hom that wasn't an ad hom that he didn't even read, in brad's mind at least.

So no, Jack, I am not that dense, but someone else seems to be.

Your "single parenthetical reference" was in fact two rather direct references; after I protested that your bringing up of private shit was inappropriate, you brought it up again, in further detail, to "defend" your bringing it up. And I don't get why you keep on mentioning that bringing up private shit was somehow necessary to provide contrast for your argument or whatever. It's missing the point entirely. It doesn't matter why you really wanted to post Private Shit.™ You crossed a line by posting it.

(I'm pretty sure Brad can still read it if he wants to, anyway.)

Look. I acceded the point to both you and grey and took away the so called private shit. In my response to YOUR post which wholly quoted my reference, of course I went into details because YOU did as a response. That's all been deleted so who the fuck cares?

I acceded that the info, because of its private nature shouldn't have been used. It ISN'T being used.

So really. Are you having fun? Because I am not.

The continuing exaggerations of how much verbal abuse I was dishing out is simply absurd. I called you an asshat something like 10 times over the course of a couple of minutes. How many words haven't been spared in casting me as some utter villain in all of this. I explained myself to you. I gave you as much benefit as that. I was irked by your dismissive (uh, ok Bruce) responses to what I said. And as far as I was concerned that was it.

But no. Not for you. Never for you.



The fire started on my atoll was real. It was the result of zealous actions by Brad and RS. Brad and RS have clearly not 'learned' the inappropriateness of physically destroying property (even accidentally) as a result of their zealotry. They manage to find excuses for their actions, which I must mirror out of self-preservation, so why should I even bother playing a game with one admin who believes himself to be above the rules of the community and the other who believes their actions are almost always seemingly 'ok', even when they clearly aren't.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 19:18
To end this once and for all: I have deleted the copies of minecraft on my computers so I will never be tempted to play again.

The atoll is Grey's now, including all of the supplies in it and he can do with those what he wants. No one else is allowed to do anything with it.

So enjoy the game boys.

As I said, I can read when I am not wanted. I do not have the energy or time to argue with Robo, RS, Brad and turtle over the appropriateness of all of this. I simply cannot be bothered. You win. Congrats!

Robo
2012-01-15, 19:46
The continuing exaggerations of how much verbal abuse I was dishing out is simply absurd. I called you an asshat something like 10 times over the course of a couple of minutes.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Did you read what you just wrote?

I was irked by your dismissive (uh, ok Bruce) responses to what I said.

What the hell did you expect me to say? "Yes, Bruce, I agree that I'm an asshat"? I did exactly what one is supposed to do when someone is being "trolled." I didn't confront you about it. I didn't argue back. I just let it go. I dismissed it. But by your own admission it was me letting it go that "irked" you. You wanted people to confront you about it. You demanded conflict, and now you're trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim when a conflict ensued? Stop it.

drewprops
2012-01-15, 19:51
Super, Bruce.
This was obviously a logical, non-emotional way of resolving the issue.
Brad & Turtle's solution wasn't great, either.
We all lose.


...

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 19:54
:lol: :lol: :lol: Did you read what you just wrote?



What the hell did you expect me to say? "Yes, Bruce, I agree that I'm an asshat"? I did exactly what one is supposed to do when someone is being "trolled." I didn't confront you about it. I didn't argue back. I just let it go. I dismissed it. But by your own admission it was me letting it go that "irked" you. You wanted people to confront you about it. You demanded conflict, and now you're trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim when a conflict ensued? Stop it.
I am not painting myself as a victim. But nor should you. The entire stupidity started when you mocked (trolled) Brad for failing to be timely with his goodbye. I called you on it in chat. You 'dismissed' me. Brad and RS decided to strike me with lightning escalating the response. It set fire to my atoll. I set off a piece of tnt in RS's kitchen. It was done, until turtle got involved and decided punishment was in order.

That is the unadorned truth.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 19:58
Super, Bruce.
This was obviously a logical, non-emotional way of resolving the issue.
Brad & Turtle's solution wasn't great, either.
We all lose.


...
No. I think there are winners here. I think they know who they are and should have nice senses of satisfaction. At least someone is getting something out this. Me staying in game wasn't going to get anyone anything.

Elysium
2012-01-15, 20:02
Simple truth here:

Two contrasting personalities clashed in game. Several idiotic incidents played out in ever escalating order. We've now lost one of the veteran, prolific community builders and have created enough of a shitstorm to turn off those on the sidelines.

Nobody is covering themselves in any glory here, and the point needs to be dropped for a while instead of constantly trying to get the last word in.

drewprops
2012-01-15, 20:10
Bruce, I've attempted to defend your retaliation in part as a tit-for-tat action, but the maddening circular gabbing in this thread about what was surely a junior high school conversation in-game is hanging you with your own rope.

I know the people in this game.

I know what to expect of them.

Robo is chatty.
Rowdy can be prickly if confronted with unexpected situations.
Grey loves Minecraft and the community of building things.
Drew is random.
Mrs. T likes pretty things and is scared of monsters.
Brad builds Lego buildings and plays demi-god.
T likes to adventure and build things and takes care of his family.
Box of Jason... well hell, I don't know what he does.
Dellphi builds things quietly and lets everyone blather.
....and the rest....


and when these people are being themselves and it irritates me, I go do something of my own and ignore them.

I don't know what Robo said, but you were being a DICKHEAD for badgering him about it... even if he was being a dickhead for doing whatever he was originally saying. What good is it to go after people about blather, anyway? It's just chit chat, people talking.

I know that your arguments in this thread have been driven by a feeling that you were treated unjustly, and you were.

You were.

Brad and Rowdy should have received punishment too.

They did not.

I'd have kept playing and just not interacted with them anymore.


I am honestly and very sincerely going to miss you in the game, but it sounds like you've made your petulant decision.

Brad is giving Turtle solidarity on the 2 week ban, that's obvious and unfortunate that we as part of the gaming community couldn't have discussed how to punish folks.

That rankles me and several others.

A lot.

I'd like to hear Brad respond to this.


...

Robo
2012-01-15, 20:15
I am not painting myself as a victim. But nor should you.

What did I do, again? :confused:

The entire stupidity started when you mocked (trolled) Brad for failing to be timing with his goodbye.

:lol:

No, bobsky, I'm pretty sure the "stupidity" started when you repeatedly called me an asshat for what everybody else understood to be a harmless joke. Nobody else thought my joke (presented here, for the record, in its entirety: "oh, too slow / waaaah waaaaaah!") was out of line — not even Brad, who was the "target" of it.

I'll be blunt, since you dislike tact: I don't think you really get jokes. Like, in general. I think you have trouble understanding when people are joking and when people are being genuinely mean. This isn't the first time you've read too much into one of my jokes, or taken them seriously. Based on your behavior in the days leading up to the incident, I think you disliked me beforehand, and I think this colored your perception of my joke/asshattery. I have good friends who have serious problems reading people's intentions, but they acknowledge this and try not to fly off the handle all the time. If they did, they'd be unbearable.

I think there's an established pattern of you overreacting here, just like you overreacted when people told you your "Tim Cook bored Steve Jobs to death" joke was in poor taste, and just like you overreacted when I tweeted that I didn't want to post personal stuff here any more because of you (which turned out to be prescient).

I called you on it in chat.

If you were trying to "call" me on it, as you put it, you didn't do a very good job, because you just kept saying I was an asshat, and nobody knew why. Since, y'know, nobody else thought I had done anything wrong in the slightest. You just repeatedly called me an asshat for reasons that only made sense inside your head.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 20:33
What did I do, again? :confused:



:lol:

No, bobsky, I'm pretty sure the "stupidity" started when you repeatedly called me an asshat for what everybody else understood to be a harmless joke. Nobody else thought my joke (presented here, for the record, in its entirety: "oh, too slow / waaaah waaaaaah!") was out of line — not even Brad, who was the "target" of it.

I am nothing if not honest. The whole haha-too slow thing irks me regardless of who does it. It is asshattery at the finest. If it was anyone else that night I would have called them out just the same. It has nothing to do with you.

I'll be blunt, since you dislike tact: I don't think you really get jokes. Like, in general. I think you have trouble understanding when people are joking and when people are being genuinely mean. This isn't the first time you've read too much into one of my jokes, or taken them seriously.

Or perhaps I just don't think you are funny? Sorry to say, but that is probably the truth of the matter. It strikes me that you like to attribute specific interactions that you and I have to the general public. This will come up again in a second.

Based on your behavior in the days leading up to the incident, I think you disliked me beforehand, and I think this colored your perception of my joke/asshattery.

Fascinating, really. Because I don't actually dislike you. I don't generally engage with people I dislike, particularly when it is about something they have done that bothers me in general about them. The reason is that there are somethings you cannot fix and what's the point engaging them if there is no benefit to it. Regardless of how much I like conflict, endless goalless conflict has never been my cup of tea. It's why I don't post at AI anymore. I couldn't deal with the fact that the arguments put forward today are the same arguments put forward by the same players ten years ago. That gets wearing.

I think there's an established pattern of you overreacting here, just like you overreacted when people told you your "Tim Cook bored Steve Jobs to death" joke was in poor taste, and just like you overreacted when I tweeted that I didn't want to post personal stuff here any more because of you (which turned out to be prescient).

Its interesting that you think I overreact whenever I am engaging you in particular. Perhaps you don't get me. No, that's obvious, you don't. But while the entire world decided that my posts were anathema after SJ's death, you will find that I didn't actually respond to many charges back at me. (There are a total of 7 posts by me between those 2 threads, 1 is the joke, 1 is a response to the response in the joke thread, 2 are my non-joking response to the death, 1 is the response to the response to my simple statements, and 2 are fluff responses of no content) I did try to engage those that left comments on their negative rep giving via PM because I honestly wanted to know what was so bad about them. I still am not sure the response makes sense to me, but whatever. No one responded to my serious inquiries and it ended there. To call this an over reaction is perhaps more telling of you than of me, and I do think it is quite telling.



If you were trying to "call" me on it, as you put it, you didn't do a very good job, because you just kept saying I was an asshat, and nobody knew why. Since, y'know, nobody else thought I had done anything wrong in the slightest. You just repeatedly called me an asshat for reasons that only made sense inside your head.

I did tell you when asked. And you incredulously responded "is that it? really?" or something to that effect.


But whatever.

Robo
2012-01-15, 20:45
I am nothing if not honest.

See, this is what's bothered me, throughout this whole thing. You keep on saying you're nothing if not honest, you value honesty above all else, and you feel totally justified in your actions. But right after Rowdy's house blew up, when Rowdy accused you of doing it, you lied about it. If you value honesty so much, if you're nothing if not honest, and if your actions were totally justifiable, why did you lie?

That's the only hypocrisy I see, in this whole ordeal.

Or perhaps I just don't think you are funny?

Not thinking I'm funny is perfectly acceptable. Nobody's on you for not finding my jokes funny. Flipping out and calling me an asshat because you don't understand when jokes are jokes is different. Again, I know you're not this dense, so stop it.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 20:58
See, this is what's bothered me, throughout this whole thing. You keep on saying you're nothing if not honest, you value honesty above all else, and you feel totally justified in your actions. But right after Rowdy's house blew up, when Rowdy accused you of doing it, you lied about it. If you value honesty so much, if you're nothing if not honest, and if your actions were totally justifiable, why did you lie?

That's the only hypocrisy I see, in this whole ordeal.

I was waiting for this. It was evident that I set the tnt. I was surprised that RS had to guess that it was me particularly as I walked in front of him to set the tnt. The only players on at the time were me, you, RS and Brad and the two other amigos were certainly not going to do it. What I needed to have happen at that point was to get RS admitting to assisting in the lightning strike, because while it was clear that he was to me and brad, I wanted to read it from him. The conversation followed that path as planned.

So while it is most certainly a lie, it was one chosen because 1) it was obviously a lie and 2) I wanted to lead the conversation down a particular path. Hypocrisy sure. But an ill-effective lie to get at another truth is (only sometimes) justified in my mind.




Not thinking I'm funny is perfectly acceptable. Nobody's on you for not finding my jokes funny. Flipping out and calling me an asshat because you don't understand when jokes are jokes is different. Again, I know you're not this dense, so stop it.

I don't think anyone seriously trolls other players when they mock the failure to say goodbye on time. I still think the act (even as a 'joke') is atrocious.

Robo
2012-01-15, 21:06
I was waiting for this. It was evident that I set the tnt. I was surprised that RS had to guess that it was me particularly as I walked in front of him to set the tnt. The only players on at the time were me, you, RS and Brad and the two other amigos were certainly not going to do it. What I needed to have happen at that point was to get RS admitting to assisting in the lightning strike. The conversation followed that path as planned.

So while it is most certainly a lie, it was one chosen because 1) it was obviously a lie and 2) I wanted to lead the conversation down a particular path. Hypocrisy sure. But an ill-effective lie to get at another truth is (only sometimes) justified in my mind.

So you lie when it suits your purposes. Got it.

Sorry, but that's not what honesty is. Maybe you could try another word? "I am nothing if not manipulative," perhaps.

RowdyScot
2012-01-15, 21:09
I was stuck in void, so saw the TNT and redstone torch appear in front of me. Funny, though - you TNTed my house to get me to admit it? So you griefed me and you weren't actually sure I was involved? Now I DO think the ban was necessary - I hadn't thought the in-game actions justified it as of yet, but that admission changes everything.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 21:15
Jack I am honest to a deficit.

I would not have lied if it wasn't clear I placed the tnt. Why would I? My entire purpose for placing it was to get back at RS for ill-assiting Brad's retribution. His knowledge of that fact was critical to cause him to think twice about doing it again. That was the goal.

I am not for getting other people in trouble for things I have done....

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 21:17
I was stuck in void, so saw the TNT and redstone torch appear in front of me. Funny, though - you TNTed my house to get me to admit it? So you griefed me and you weren't actually sure I was involved? Now I DO think the ban was necessary - I hadn't thought the in-game actions justified it as of yet, but that admission changes everything.

No I knew you were involved RS. I knew you had tl'd back to *somewhere* presumably your home after sinking off shore (this is why you were in the void, after all, correct?). You said 'he's open' accidentally in chat (i guess meaning to whisper it to brad) not seconds before the lightning strike. Again, I wanted you to admit it, because I don't think you would have if I had come at you after setting the tnt. You after all aren't capable of generating lightning strikes yourself and could have argued you happened to be next to the atoll, and happened to say 'he's open' in chat just when Brad decided to strike. But to get around the bullshit, I manipulated you into admitting culpability.

RowdyScot
2012-01-15, 21:29
Sure I would have - why wouldn't I? You'd said lightning wouldn't strike you because you weren't an asshat. Why would I not help to make that hilarity if I could do it in a relatively harmless way? If I'd known you'd gone inside, I wouldn't have given Brad the clear, but I'd have kept looking for a time when you were in the open.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 21:30
Because by that point damage was done to both of our projects? And it was looking like the cluster-fuck this thread has become?

Perhaps I underestimated the apparent humor in well-deserved comeuppance, but at the time I wasn't finding any of it funny. Still don't.

Robo
2012-01-15, 21:33
Yet another core piece of me exposed. Great.

WTF? You volunteered that information. You chose to expose that piece of you, so I don't see how you can possibly act like you don't like that it's exposed. You weren't somehow forced to volunteer that information against your will.

I'm done here. This thread took a turn for the weird. We're not as stupid as you think, bobsky. (And yes, I know, you say you don't think you're better than anyone, rah rah, but actions speak louder than words, and you keep on acting like we're all idiots.) Nobody likes being manipulated, and I think that's what you're doing, with your little conversational "paths" and traps and games.

RowdyScot
2012-01-15, 21:35
Why would that stop me from openly admitting it? The only reason I was hiding anything was because lightning randomly striking you during a thunderstorm after you'd made the comment that it wouldn't would have been fucking hilarious.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 21:38
WTF? You volunteered that information. You chose to expose that piece of you, so I don't see how you can possibly act like you don't like that it's exposed. You weren't somehow forced to volunteer that information against your will.

I'm done here. This thread took a turn for the weird. .
Quite right. I am going to change the post. I am tired guys...

We're not as stupid as you think, bobsky. (And yes, I know, you say you don't think you're better than anyone, rah rah, but actions speak louder than words, and you keep on acting like we're all idiots.) Nobody likes being manipulated, and I think that's what you're doing, with your little conversational "paths" and traps and games

Edit: Didn't see this edit (tiredness). I am not trying to manipulate you right now, nor throughout this thread.

I don't think you are dumb, Robo. I don't think that anyone else on this forum is either. I think the level of expressiveness shown here is a testament to everyone's intelligence. I don't dumb down my posts because I know everyone can follow them (when they are well written, which is pretty rare, admittedly). I know for a fact that I wouldn't stick around if this place didn't provide some challenge in the discourse. I like it here. I like the people here.

billybobsky
2012-01-15, 21:44
Why would that stop me from openly admitting it? The only reason I was hiding anything was because lightning randomly striking you during a thunderstorm after you'd made the comment that it wouldn't would have been fucking hilarious.
The fact is that I didn't know how malicious your intentions were. All I knew at the time is that a fire was started because I was struck by lightning because you and Brad conspired to get back at me. I realized you both had probably wanted to deny culpability for *humor* value. But that failed with the 'he's open' slip up. Then there was the question of whether you would deny it because damage was done. Maybe I misjudged.

709
2012-01-16, 12:44
This is stupid.

Brad and Rowdy were stupid in conspiring to zap bobsky, bobsky was stupid to react in the way that he did, and turtle was stupid in handing out a grossly disproportionate ban.

You're all stupid. Happy? Now shut the fuck up and get along.

bobsky, I'll act as temp conservator to the atoll until you come back, but you are coming back. To leave MC completely because of this of all things is ridiculous.

alcimedes
2012-01-16, 15:36
Simple truth here:

Two contrasting personalities clashed in game. Several idiotic incidents played out in ever escalating order. We've now lost one of the veteran, prolific community builders and have created enough of a shitstorm to turn off those on the sidelines.

Nobody is covering themselves in any glory here, and the point needs to be dropped for a while instead of constantly trying to get the last word in.

This is probably where this thread should have died. I'll open it up in a few days, but really, nothing worthwhile is coming out of this thread at this point, is it? If in 48 hours there is more that needs to be said I'll have it unlocked, for now though, this is just a train wreck of stupid.