Ha...my next Mac may be a portable after all

[psmith2.0]

Damn. It. :D

This new gig - a longterm, ongoing illustration (technical, processes, circuits, etc. for industrial safety training, etc.) may involve a bit of "away from home" work/tweaking at times.

In no hurry, but after years of assuming anything I got next would simply be another iMac, I'm now 48 hours into the realization that it may be a MacBook of some sort.

I learned my lesson from the last time, so I will not be going bonkers and spending $2,000+. In fact, I will not come anywhere near my $1,500 ceiling if I can help it.

So it'll be a 13" something-or-other, most likely.

And, I won't have two computers. So it'll be another iMac or one of these 13" notebooks.

Pro or Air?

I use the core Apple stuff (including iLife), and then Adobe Illustrator CS6 (and Angry Birds :D ). That's pretty much it. No super heavy lifting.

I see the plusses and benefits in both...but I also note the downsides. :\

Thoughts?

[Capella]

If you get a refurbished current-gen Pro, you'll still be able to upgrade the RAM and drive in the future if you need to. You won't be able to in the Air. The Pros have more CPU speed, but I don' know how intensive Illustrator is on the CPU. Also, I assume you'll get an external monitor?

[psmith2.0]

I'm not sure. Yeah, I've been sitting here gridding all this out in TextEdit (looking at the Apple online store and comparing each). Here's what I've come up with (and the upgrade prices for the MacBook Pro are based on today's prices for a 8GB and 256GB SSD from Crucial...subject to change, of course).

But I need to lay it out so I can visualize/compare them, so it makes some sense:

13" MacBook Air
1.8GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
4GB RAM
128GB SSD
$1,199
Upgrading the RAM and the hard drive to 8GB ($100) and 256GB ($300), via Apple online store
Total upfront cost $1,599...has to be spent at time of purchase; no back-end upgradability

13" MacBook Pro
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
4GB RAM
500GB 5400rpm hard drive
$1,199
Upgrading the RAM and the hard drive to 8GB ($52) and 256GB SSD ($215)
Total cost: $1,466...can be upgraded, by myself, anytime I want, together or separately

Both models have:
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Two USB 3.0 ports
One Thunderbolt port
SD card slot
802.11n
Bluetooth 4.0
13.3" LED backlit display
Full-size backlit keyboard
7 hours battery

Air plusses:
1440x900 display (vs. 1280x800 on MacBook Pro)
Lighter by 1.5lbs.
Cute™ :p

Pro plusses:
FireWire 800
Gigabit Ethernet
SuperDrive

So that's the analytical, by-the-numbers take on it all.

I'm currently using right at 70GB on my iMac (and this huge, mostly-wasted 320GB hard drive). :) I could probably get by with a 128GB SSD, but that's just cutting it too close. Knowing my luck, the day after I got it, I'd win some iTunes contest where I get to download my favorite 5,000 songs (or I'd land a series of video-editing side jobs and that space would get munched up pretty quick). I've pretty much decided firmly on a 256GB hard drive, whichever way I go, just so I don't have to worry or keep an eye on things over the next several years...

Also, if I found myself in a situation where I'd need to burn discs or rip additional music CDs or whatever, then add another $79 to the cost of the MacBook Air for the USB SuperDrive.

You pay a good bit extra for "thin and cute", huh? :)

Purely from an economical/bang-for-your-buck standpoint, the MacBook Pro has it all over the Air.

I'm not sure all that extra money, upfront (because you're forced to make those RAM and hard drive upgrades at the time of purchase) are worth 1.5lbs. (I'm not a mouse) and a slightly higher-res display.

If $1,200 fell into my lap tomorrow and I had to go make the purchase, the Pro would be the choice I'd make, I do believe.

Illustrator, even this latest one, seems to run just fine on my August 2007 iMac (2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, 3GB RAM). My whole system, at times, feels a tad laggy or "held back", depending on what I'm doing. I figure that's just things bogging down and a nearly-five-year-old processor/architecture chewing on a 2012 OS and apps? I assume a modern i5, 4-8GB RAM and a snappy SSD would all help with that.

As for the external display, I may. But it's not crucial and it won't be a "day one" purchase. I'd have time to sit back, investigate my options (or perhaps find out I don't even need, or want, one). I do my palettes in Illustrator in a particular way that works well for me, hiding most things and easily bringing up what I need. The huge zoom factors help too, as I can always close in on what I'm working on. It will be a step down, no matter what, going from this 1680x1050 iMac. But I'm not too hung up on that.

I'm fine with the keyboard on the thing, as it's the same action/spacing as the standalone Apple keyboard. I'd prefer to "go lean" and not have a bunch of stuff to hook up and keep up with. Ideally, it would just be the MacBook and my Magic Mouse.

I'd also try and sell both my AirPort Express and this 1GB Western Digital USB hard drive and get a Time Capsule at some point, so I don't have to connect a wire for Time Machine backups...

I briefly toyed with the notion of an 11" Air, and just really downsizing/streamlining my life. But I'd have to spend a good bit upfront to get it up to the levels I'd feel good about for the next three or so years (8GB RAM and 256GB SSD)...I'm looking at $1,499. $1 below my little self-imposed purchase ceiling. :D

$100 less than the 13" Air, $33 more than the Pro. But that $1,499 would have to be done upfront. And I'm losing 2" of screen and a couple of hours on battery life (and a slightly slower machine...1.7GHz vs. 1.8GHz; no biggie, but worth pointing out in the interest of a complete comparison).

Bear in mind that these purchase numbers are reflecting a bit on the high side, as I'll definitely be going with refurb when they finally come around on these latest models...but I'm doing all my calculations using new, stock pricing for now.

I'd probably get the Air if I won $1,000 on a radio contest or something. But if it's my own money, I kinda need to get a bigger bang for the buck. I'm not so obsessed with "thin and light" that I'm willing to pay hundreds extra for it, upfront.

[psmith2.0]

I'm seeing where previous-gen 13" Airs (with 4GB RAM and 256GB SSDs) are $1,189 and $1,199. I could deal with something like that if these new models work their way down to that neighborhood in several months. That's the thing too...you can't BTO/upgrade the refurb stuff. It is as it is, and if you see what you want (especially good prices on items that are the upper-end, deluxe versions), snag it. Because you can't call them up and have them add something to them.

[drewprops]

Didn't read the long post, but are you going to run a 2nd monitor?

I work from a 15" machine and I need every pixel of screen real estate to work comfortably in Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.


...

[dmegatool]

Photoshop on 1440x900 ain't that bad. Ain't the best but you get used to it. Illustrator should be even easier...

Can't believe the 13" pro still got less pixel than the Air. "Pro"... yeah riiiight. As I'm always looking to finally change my MBP, the 13"pro would be my choice. I would probably take out the superdrive to put an ssd in there. So 1 HDD and 1 SSD...

* 70GB ?!? Wow !! I'm jealous. 28GB left on my 500GB, getting tight ! It goes so fast... RAWs, 500MB PSDs, etc. I guess only using an iPhone to shoot pictures and working vectors all the times helps :)

[psmith2.0]

Didn't read the long post, but are you going to run a 2nd monitor?

I work from a 15" machine and I need every pixel of screen real estate to work comfortably in Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.


...

Probably not. I'd just have to see. It's not carved in stone yet, and the next several months will determine quite a bit.

Illustrator is all I have/use now, and I only keep a handful of palettes open at all times (Pathfinder, Gradient and Stroke...and I'm learning, with this new version, that some of those functions are handled in that top status bar, so I'm streamlining/simplifying things even more (and getting better at the F keys and shortcuts to bring up what I need at the moment, then send it away).

But it's a possibility. That's why I'm kinda compiling info/opinions on the front-end, when I've got a little time and wiggle-room.

* 70GB ?!? Wow !! I'm jealous. 28GB left on my 500GB, getting tight ! It goes so fast... RAWs, 500MB PSDs, etc. I guess only using an iPhone to shoot pictures and working vectors all the times helps :)

Yeah, that's really a large part of it. I don't have a standalone, high-megapixel digital camera, nor do I work on high-resolution Photoshop files. That helps tremendously, not doing things - for work or hobby - that require, or result in, huge, disc-eating files.

I was actually at about 115-120GB, but I went through my system a couple of months ago and did some serious house-cleaning, deleted some unused demo ware or silly stuff, offloaded some raw, uncut video files to my external hard drive, cleaned up my photo and music libraries, etc.. Freed up a good 45GB or so. My iTunes library is 20GB, my iPhoto library is around 15GB and my personal user folder (all my documents, projects, mockups, writing, songs, lists, etc.) is just under 5GB. So about 40GB of "stuff", with the remaining ~30GB being the system, apps, etc.

[drewprops]

Well I hope that you get a JEWEL of a machine.

You're a pretty good feller and deserve a kick-ass lappy!


...

[psmith2.0]

There's a second layer of reasons why I may be going with a notebook on my next go-around: assuming Apple's online offerings and BTO options remain the same with a new iMac, I can't get into an SSD-equipped iMac for less than $1,999.

:(

Apple, in their weird, random BTO arrangement, simply doesn't offer the option for an SSD upgrade in the $1,199 entry-level model.

So you have to step up $300 to the $1,499 model for the privilege. And then you still have to shell out $500 for Apple's nutball pricing for the 256GB SSD.

:\

If Apple offered the option on the $1,199 model on the next go-around - and maybe charged $300 for the upgrade - I could be okay with that.

But I can't spend $2,000 for such a silly reason.

And I'd rather have an SSD for the next three or so years than 8.5" more screen, believe it or not. If I'm forced to make that decision, at these current prices/BTO options, the iMac is gonna lose. :o

[Kickaha]

This might give you enough pixels...

http://blog.macsales.com/14241-macbook-pro-15-with-retina-display-can-run-3-external-displays

1. Retina on laptop @ “best for Retina”
2. iMac used as a display @ 2560 x 1440 via Thunderbolt
3. iMac used as a display @ 2560 x 1440 via Thunderbolt/DisplayPort
4. LG monitor @ 1920 x 1200 via HDMI

[psmith2.0]

Yowsah...I wouldn't know what to do. :)

Barring any significant iMac update in the next 2-6 months (this autumn, basically, enough time to allow for refurbs, etc.), I've decided it's smarter for me to go with a refurb current-gen 13" Pro. For around $1,200 I can get the machine I want, plus the RAM and SSD storage (8GB and 256GB) I want, for a better price, any time after purchase (and installed by myself).

Eugene provided a link to good pricing on SSDs, so that's something I can keep an eye on.

I'd have to spend ~1,600, up front to get the same on an Air, and right at $2,000 for the iMac. But well over my "wanna spend" limits (even factoring in refurbs, as sometimes it's hard to find those upgrade, BTO versions via refurb).

If the 1280x800 proves too cramped/small, I can always pick up a third-party external display, as Capella and drewprops mention...

[Mac+]

I didn't get too involved with this thread earlier, but work informs me they're happy to start supporting/providing Macs to some staff. So, I'm in a similar boat to Paul now.

Their suggestion is the 13" MBP (2.9GHz model w 750GB HD) or to consider a similarly priced alternative. I'm tempted by the 11" MBA, but not sure yet.

This means I can now keep my 15" MBP at home. I do love that machine - but it will be nice not to have to lug it around.

At some point I'll have to upgrade it, so if work provides the laptop then maybe a Mac mini server with a separate disc drive could do the trick for home. It's remarkable how once I was a one computer person, but now the family home will have my laptop, an old G4 iMac (for our girl) and potentially a server. Couple these with TM and an iPad + 2 iPhones. :eek: Nice for us, but crazy good for Apple.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, I hate thinking about this stuff. Because I don't do this enough to be casual or flippant about it (I keep things for at least four years, it seems). And I can't just blindly throw money around, so I still have to be smart and practical and can't do any "I just won the lottery!" purchasing (I'd love to though, believe me).

Then I wouldn't even have to think about all the above because, frankly, I'm kinda "settling" in that options completely out of my control are driving this purchase.

But I also remind myself that I'm not a spec whore and that I shouldn't get too in the weeds over various things (whatever I get, I'm coming to it from an almost-five-year-old machine, so...). Even though the clock speeds won't be drastically different (my iMac is a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo..."Merom", I think was the code word for it?), I know enough to realize that those numbers are one small part of it, and any current-geneation Core iWhatever is going to run rings around it. Same with graphics (my only "demands" on that front are that I'm able to slingshot some birds; I'm not trying to kill a bunch of dragons or zombies in immersive 3D with mystical swords or atomic shotguns...that's not my bag, baby). :p

Really, SSD is really the only thing I insist on. Things like processor, graphics, I/O really don't concern me because I figure they'll all be an real improvement over what I've known these past several years. I'm even flexible on screen size/resolution.

Although I'd feel a skootch better about going with the 13" Pro if it had the 1440x900 resolution of the 13" Air. It's not a deal killer, no, but the little extra would be nice. 1280x800 feels, in 2012, the way 800x600 felt in 2007...a bygone era, full of flying toasters, putty-colored hardware and SCSI IDs. :)

[evan]

Specs and price aside, there is one more thing to consider.

If you get the air, *every8 *single* *time* you pull it out of your bag and flip it open, you are going to think about how awesome it is. If you get the pro, *every* *single* *time* you lug it out of your bag and pry it open, you are going to think about how kludgy it is and maybe you should have gone with the air.

Seriously, when I had an air (gave it to my mom because it was redundant on top of a work-given laptop) I was constantly in awe of how thin/light/solid it was. The novelty never wore off over about 6 months. I carried it everywhere I brought a bag and didn't think twice about it taking up space / being heavy / not being worth it. It was always worth it. Now my dad has one, my brother has one, and I've convinced some friends to get one, and they repeatedly thank me for convincing them. I think the Air is just such a joy to use in a physical sense that it trumps whatever pluses the 13" pro offers.

my 2 cents.

[psmith2.0]

Hmmm.

Did you have the 11" or 13"?

[evan]

Had the 13

[Dorian Gray]

First things first: Adobe says Illustrator CS6 needs 2 GB of RAM (but 8 GB is recommended) and a 1024 × 768 display (but 1280 × 800 is recommended). So any suitably-equipped 13-inch Apple laptop would meet even the recommended configuration. For that matter, even the cheapest 11-inch model would meet the basic requirements.

In your list of Pro plusses, FireWire 800 should only be there if you use it (to state the obvious!). Likewise Gigabit Ethernet. Heck, the SuperDrive too.

On the other hand, previous Airs had poorer display quality compared to the 13-inch Pro, even though they had a few more pixels. I don't know if that difference remains (but I'd guess it probably does?). If so, add that to your plusses. By quality I mean viewing angle, contrast, and colour gamut. The 13-inch MacBook Pro display introduced new quality standards in mainstream notebooks: recall that back in 2009 Apple boasted about 60 percent greater colour gamut than previous generations. The Air didn't follow that new standard.

As you mention above, the ability to zoom and manage palettes and windows effectively allows you to get around the pixel-count problem. But skillful operation doesn't improve the display quality.

You can see where this is going, but here's another couple of considerations:


you could put the money you save towards a Panasonic LX5 (http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/lx5/index.html), and clutter up your hard drive again (and you should! You'd be a great photographer).
the MacBook Air with real wow-factor and futuristic appeal is the 11-inch model. It's half the weight of the 13-inch Pro. The 13-inch model is more of a compromise.
you must get 8 GB of RAM in an Air, since memory usage has gone crazy in the last couple of years and will only get worse over your expected period of ownership. But it will be hard to find a refurb with 8 GB of RAM already installed. A refurb Pro with 4 GB of RAM can be upgraded by you, immediately or later when the need becomes pressing.
you're a cheapskate (like me), and the MacBook Air is expensive. You're not made for each other (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/macbook_air_13inch_mid2011_ug.pdf). :D
I love the 11-inch MacBook Air, but I'm not as convinced by the 13-inch model. In any case, the MacBook Pro still makes sense when storage space is important (whether by dint of its standard hard disk or the ability to install a large SSD at a good price), display quality is important, SuperDrive/FireWire is still needed, or value for money is important.

[psmith2.0]

Thanks for the input. All those things have crossed my mind (and still do).

If money was no issue/concern, I'd get an Ivy Bridge/USB 3.0-equipped 21.5" iMac (whenever they come) with a 256GB SSD and call it done.

So...what are you saying? 11" Air? or 13" Pro? I couldn't quite tell for sure where you were taking it. :confused: :)

[Dorian Gray]

Yeah, that post is a catastrophe. I have no idea where I was going. Sheesh! :\ :D

Truth is, I'm a bit torn. I love the 11-inch MacBook Air. It's revolutionary, it's stunningly light, and yet it's a full-on computer that does everything most people need. But you do have needs beyond the average, with your Adobe CS requirements.

I had a 13-inch MacBook Pro before my Mac mini, and I loved that too… until my girlfriend got an 11-inch MacBook Air. After that it just felt old and heavy and unresponsive (no SSD). However, the difference between a 13-inch screen and an 11-inch screen was, for me, the difference between being able to work comfortably in Aperture/Lightroom/Photoshop and fighting with those apps. So I think you're right to insist on a 13-inch display.

Which brings us to the 13-inch MacBook Air. This one's pretty expensive, and it's not as exciting as the 11-inch Air. You're keen to keep the price in check, and you're not a mouse. Ergo, the MacBook Pro seems to be a better choice.

If there's any real doubt about which model you'd prefer, the sensible route is the least expensive route. But you figured that out years ago with your top-of-the-range PowerBook. :lol:

[Dorian Gray]

By the way, desktops are nice. You might miss your iMac. But equally, I miss my laptop. The grass is always greener. :lol:

I completely agree, though, that two Macs are not worth the hassle. And if you stick to that rule, a laptop offers the greatest flexibility since it can, of course, be hooked up to an external display.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, that's true. I was actually giving the 11" Air some thinking a few nights ago...looking at pics and video online, reading reviews of these just-released models, I played with one at a store earlier that afternoon, etc. Funny thing is, the resolution on it is still higher than the 13" Pro.

It's encouraging to see the previous-generation top-of-the-line 11" refurb going for just $1,149 (4GB RAM, 256GB SSD, 1.8GHz Core i7). Something similar, give or take the i7 (but with 8GB RAM) on a refurb 2012 11" this autumn would certainly catch my eye. I do love the idea of doing "serious work" on something so dinky and unassuming. :p

I had a laptop from 2003-2008, and I've had an iMac since 2008. Maybe, in the interest of keeping things interesting and fresh, I go back to a notebook (now that the offerings are so much more attractive, capable and affordable vs. 11 years ago). I don't think it's the trade-off it used to be, years and years ago. The performance is there, and in such a tight, sleek and lightweight package.

I'll see how things go once these current models start showing up in the refurb section in another few months. Between that and any iMac update (next-gen or otherwise), I'll be in a position to make a true decision based on real-life numbers and scenarios. Right now there's just too much "what if?" and guesswork to make a firm, definite decision.

I've got the luxury of time, as it stands...knock on wood, my iMac hasn't gone belly-up or anything (that sound you just heard was me jinxing the living hell out of myself...uh-oh) :D

As for the Adobe stuff, it's really just Illustrator CS6 so that helps too, vs. high-resolution Photoshop or hardcore After Effects or Lightroom type of work. I've got it good, in that I've never really needed major, serious horsepower and high-end performance, doing what I do.