View Full Version : Compact mechanical keyboard?
I know there's some keyboard aficionados here so let me cut to the chase.
I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard (I will accept Topre switches) with the following characteristics.
is more compact than a tenkeyless layout.
has Mac legends.
heavy keyswitches, 55nm or higher
has arrow keys.
preferably has a USB hub.
preferably has white keycaps.
no preference between clicky or quiet.
The current HHKB Professional 2 is a little too minimalist along with pointlessly expensive. I could probably buy something like a Leopold FC660 and a set of custom keycaps from WASD, but finding one with Cherry MX Clear keyswitches is proving difficult. Basically I'd be open to anything with Topre's 55nm capacitive, Cherry MX Clears or Matias Quiet Click switches.
drewprops
2015-01-26, 07:11
This is the fucking geekiest thing posted here in a long prize. We owe you some sort of prize.
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Hey thanks.
Shopping for peripherals, monitors, mattresses, task chairs, etc. is a very deliberate process here. Needs to be exactly how I want it.
drewprops
2015-01-26, 10:11
If nobody here has a good answer for you PLEASE come back and post about what you end up with. I've never geeked out on keyboard details before and am interested - you might teach me something.
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I'm also interested in this topic. I have noticed, that compared to my thick keyboard at work, the thin standard keyboard for my iMac yields a lot more typos and I think that something a little more tangible would help.
I love mechanical keyboards as well. The keyboards today are just too damn soft.
I would like to find one of those as well. It's hard enough to find one even works well with Mac OS, let alone meets all those features. Good luck!
drewprops
2015-01-26, 23:46
This is the fucking geekiest thing posted here in a long prize. We owe you some sort of prize.
* posted here in a long TIME
How sleepy was I when I posted??
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http://matias.ca/60/pc/
^ Hmm, this is very close to what I want, but it's still $150 and not even a real product yet.
I think I could also deal with the Matias Mini Tactile Pro, but man that design language is straight out of 2000.
Those are some interesting keyboards. Unfortunately the ones offered in Europe aren't the Mac versions, which is really annoying because it doesn't look like they have adjusted prices for the stronger USD yet.
:\
Das Keyboard has come out with a compact version of their model 4. (http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4C-professional/) $143, that's $6 cheaper then the Matias and better looking if you ask me. :) Of course its also available with completely blank keys.
I have sort of been eyeing the 4 Professional, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere where I could try it out. I'm a little concerned about how thick/tall it is and wether that's good from an ergonomic point of view.
The Das doesn't really offer anything over other Tenkeyless/80% keyboards out of the box. It's manufactured by Costar, who also do Filco and WASD keyboards. It doesn't have Mac legends.
KUL, Cooler Master, Corsair, Deck, Max, etc all offer similar keyboards.
I used to have a Das at one of my old jobs and loved it.
Need to save up and grab another mechanical keyboard.
drewprops
2015-01-28, 22:40
How did you guys even find out about these keyboards?
I feel like you're about to go to Akihabara and star pulling things down off a pegboard... this is really wild (to me).
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Geekhack, word of mouth, group buys from Massdrop, etc.
Here's a couple of more mainstream options:
Corsair K70 RGB (http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance-k70-rgb-fully-mechanical-gaming-keyboard-anodized-black-cherry-mx-brown) - Distinct metal base, customizable LEDs, gaming oriented but not overly so. Cherry MX switches. Linear, tactile and clicky versions available.
Cooler Master Quickfire XT (http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfirext/) - Somewhat gaming oriented. CM brand mechanicals are considered good bang for the buck. Cherry MX switches. Linear, tactile or clicky.
Steelseries 6GV2 (http://steelseries.com/us/products/keyboards/steelseries-6gv2) - Another gaming brand keyboard with a muted design. Cherry MX switches.
Logitech G710 (http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g710-mechanical-gaming-keyboard) - Hit or miss aesthetics. Macro keys, media keys, etc. Very much gaming oriented. Cherry MX switches.
Das Keyboard Professional 4 (http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-professional/) - Premium aesthetic. Cherry MX switches. Mac version available.
Matias Tactile/Quiet Pro 4 (http://matias.ca/tactilepro4/) - Dated aesthetic. Matias switches. Tactile or clicky. Mac version available.
Lesser known brands:
WASD Keyboards (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/) - Very customizable, very high quality. All Cherry MX switches available.
Filco Majestouch 2 (http://amzn.com/B004VKYHP4) - High quality brand from Japan.
Keyed Up Labs (https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs)
Topre (https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rf104) - Very high quality hybrid rubber-dome/mechanical keyboards.
Ducky Keyboards (http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/search.php?man=1&in_stock=on) - High quality, cheaper than Filco. Sometimes gaudy looking.
Leopold (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leopold-FC750R-Mechanical-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Brown-PBT-Black-English-/271733502105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f44943099) - Hard to find in the US, cheaper than Filco. Look on eBay or Massdrop.
Max Keyboard (http://www.maxkeyboard.com/)
Deck (http://www.deckkeyboards.com/)
Rosewill (http://www.rosewill.com/products/22/152/384/0000/series.htm) - Newegg's house brand. Good keyboards nonetheless.
And many more... Just about all of them use Cherry MX switches. Key exceptions are the Matias and Topre keyboards. Some brands like Razer, Keycool, Thermaltake use Kailh-brand clones of the Cherry switches because they're 1) cheaper, and 2) Cherry now has a 1-year lead time on contracts/orders.
I used to have a Das at one of my old jobs and loved it.
Need to save up and grab another mechanical keyboard.
How did the thickness feel?
Did you feel like yor hands were bending backwards/upwards when you were typing?
How did the thickness feel?
Did you feel like yor hands were bending backwards/upwards when you were typing?
I really liked it. It was pretty clunky, but that was the first model. It looks like the newer one is significantly thinner.
It's was definitely more of an upward motion than something like the slim Apple keyboards, but didn't seem too far out of line. Took me a few days to get used to it but once that was done, it was a great keyboard. I really wish I had another one.
So it didn't have a tendency to cause strain on the back on your hands?
drewprops
2015-01-29, 19:53
Fantastic list of links!!
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I find height generally isn't a problem with most keyboards, just rise from the bottom to top row. I used to use the extendo feet on every one of my keyboards, but now I find it much more comfy to just have the keyboard as flat as possible. If you need wrist support you can always get one of those thick neoprene rests.
So it didn't have a tendency to cause strain on the back on your hands?
Not that I remember. I wasn't typing for hours on end mind you, but it definitely wasn't uncomfortable at all.
I just disappeared down the rabbithole of customizing one of the WASD keyboards for quite some time before realizing:
a: I would never decide.
b: I wasn't going to actually buy one.
I may have gone forward with ordering a WASD...
Not exactly what I was looking for, but it'll do until something like that Matias 60% comes out.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22649165/wasd-custom1-thumb.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22649165/wasd-custom1.jpg)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22649165/wasd-custom2-thumb.jpg (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22649165/wasd-custom2.jpg)
ThunderPoit
2015-02-01, 00:17
I have the same WASD TKL and gotta say I love it. Mine has MX Blues, however. I would make one recommendation, and it will be difficult to do with your specification of Mac legends: Toss the WASD keycaps and find a set of PBT keycaps that suit your liking. Its harder to get a custom set outside of WASD, but their keycaps are so thin and soft, it bothers me that they charge $50 for a full set. I bought my keyboard barebones because of it.
They're a little bit expensive, but right now signature plastics has a Mac themed set on group buy: http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/think-different-dsa-dye-sub-pbt/
Dye sub isn't as durable as doubleshot, but with PBT, they should last an extremely long time.
Don't like the generic look of those and to be honest the WASD keys don't feel bad at all. They're already way better than most other OEM keycaps. The UV coating gives them a sort of grippy feel. I also hear there are issues with thick PBT caps and Costar stabs. I figure by the time these wear out, WASD will have dye-sub PBT caps of its own.
I chose the Cherry MX Clears...these are going to need some break-in time...
Having had a closer look at the WASD keyboards, I think they are the better looking ones because of their potential for a very minimalistic look and/or some colour-coded usability aid. It's also very charming that they have Amiga OS keys! :D Unfortunately, since they are only sold from the US it's going to cost me circa DKK 2,150 (taxes and shipping included) to get my hands one. On the other hand I can get a Das Keyboard 4 from Sweden with for only DKK 1,200. That's still an awful lot to pay for a keyboard, but the price for the WASD is well into "no f***ing way!" territory. :wtf:
I'm going to bite the bullet and order a Das...
Btw. have you guys seen this guy? He sure get's excited about keyboards:
Das: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snv2Wny3y3g
WASD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxZUV_RKjtI
:lol:
ThunderPoit
2015-02-01, 18:09
My first mechanical keyboard was a $60 board from monoprice. The WASD caps that i bought looked thinner than those, but so long as you are happy with them. What do the clears feel like? Are they linear, clicky, or tactile?
Tactile bump, non-clicky, actuation and reset are exactly the same. Maybe the heavy switches make the WASD caps feel better? I honestly have no issue with these caps.
Ok, so I ended up visiting the Cherry.de website just check out the guys making these switches and it turns out that they also make all sorts of keyboards themselves. And this one is their new pride: http://www.cherry.de/cid/Mechanical_keyboards_CHERRY_MX_BOARD_60.htm?
It looks like they have gone all out with this one and they invoke the "german engineering trope" multiple times in their presentation. I am not sold on the looks, though. I sort of think the Das is a little too garish with it gracious German naming and red accents, but that red/blue back-lighting on the Cherry really put's it square in the gamer ghetto if you ask me.
Btw. I just realised that keyboard in German seems to be a masculine noun (der tastatur) which means that the Das Keyboard rightly should be named Der Keyboard. Stupid americans! :p
Got a chance to play with a Matias keyboard today. It's a shame more manufacturers don't use Matias's own ALPS clone keyswitches. They're far superior to any version of Cherry MX switches in feel. I just hate the aesthetic and the raised key legends.
Does anyone know of any drivers for keyboards with macro keys? Maybe like a "USB Overdrive for Keyboards" or something? The Logitech G710 has OS X drivers, as do Razer's keyboards, but it seems like most don't.
I am typing this from my new Das Keyboard 4 Pro. First impressions are as follows:
The (brown) keys are really nice, but that was also the whole point with this thing. They won't make you a better typist, but I do feel less annoyed when typing on the Das compared to my flat Apple keyboard. I think it's mainly because the longer travel makes it easier not to worry about wether the strokes register or having to slam the keys (on the Apple keyboard) to be sure. It just sort of inspires comfort and your brain can put it's efforts elsewhere.
Compared to the Apple keyboard the Das is very thick and that does not sit well with me. Actually, right now, I'm using the Apple keyboard as a makeshift wrist rest, which it works surprisingly well as. However, I'll definitely need to find something to prop up my wrists, otherwise it feels wrong.
Another problem with the thickness of the Das is that you can't as easily slide your hand across it in order to hit a single key when you are lounging at your desk. Metadot Corp. seems to be of the opinion that you just have to sit straight like a soldier on parade.
It's a Nordic layout, so I have to share the legends on the Æ, Ø and Å keys with the other two country bumpkins. Oddly, the Norwegian letters are big and centre despite the fact they are the fewest. It's easy enough to ignore that they are reversed. I suppose all that oil money has it's benefits on American design considerations.
OS X refuses to acknowledge the existence of the menu modifier key (Windows) which is a shame because it would make a good Spotlight key.
The < and $ key are functionally opposite to the standard Danish layout and OS X does not offer a way to remap them, unless apparently, you are willing to edit a XML file. I tried to download the utility Ukelele, but that app has so many options and stuff that it's not really user friendly either.
Can't tell if it worth the money yet. That verdict will have to wait a while longer...
ThunderPoit
2015-02-09, 20:28
The thickness is an issue with most mechs
Anything with a Cherry MX switch is going to have a minimum height of about 1 inch from the base of the switch to the top of the keycap.
drewprops
2015-02-10, 10:06
All you need to do is take a small hand router and ease a trough into your work surface that will allow you to sink your keyboard low enough. I would advise that you move down in small increments so that you don't place it too low, else you'll need to build back up a platform with thin sheets of hardwood, glued in place with a good rabbit glue, or aliphatic resin. Caution: if you type much you may create trapped heat, which could theoretically (in certain circumstances) adversely affect the performance of the Cherry MX switches.
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That's not as crazy as it sounds, drew! :cool:
My desk is an Ikea hack, so I would be totally cool with hacking it bit more. The Das model 4 also has an aluminium top plate that protrudes out over the chassis beneath it, so you could in theory just cut a hole shaped like the bottom of the Das and drop it right in and let it rest on the edges of the top plate. However, I like to be able to move my keyboard around a bit and such a hack would make that impractical.
kelly088
2015-03-04, 22:08
I'm also interested in this topic ！！！
So along with Das moving to a cheaper keyboard OEM, they've also started using cheap Cherry MX clones instead of the real thing. It probably saves them $10 on an 87-key board like the 4C. Too bad they don't pass this savings to the consumer...they're priced at $143.
DMBand0026
2015-03-10, 11:53
I use a Monoprice mechanical with Cherry MX Blue switches. I love the thing. I got it on sale for around $45. Worth every penny. I know it's not the best mechanical keyboard on the market, nor is it the most attractive, but for a person who doesn't game, it works wonderfully. I got it right before I went back to school, I love typing papers on it. Very happy with my purchase, but I'll probably give it to a family member in a few years in favor of something a little nicer.
So along with Das moving to a cheaper keyboard OEM, they've also started using cheap Cherry MX clones instead of the real thing. It probably saves them $10 on an 87-key board like the 4C. Too bad they don't pass this savings to the consumer...they're priced at $143.
Wait what?!
My Das explicitly claims brown Cherry MX switches. Did they just start doing this?
Just the 4C model for now. Das just announced the Mac version of the full-sized 4. Conspicuously absent is any mention of Cherry MX switches.
Oh well, and here I was just about to complain about how the regular 4 Pro isn't as Mac compatible as I would like. I suppose this thread prodding me to buy it prevented me from later ordering a "proper" Mac version with "improper" switches. Though, I wonder why Metadot would risk their reputation with this. The attraction with the Das is so closely tied to the switches that this sort of thing seems like it could backfire really easy. Maybe Cherry just can't keep up with demand?
There have routinely been shortages in Cherry switches in the past, but now there's at least four large Chinese companies making clones. I actually think the competition is great and hopefully the clones get better. Right now the biggest knock against them is tolerances / quality control.
Bought an old Apple Extended Keyboard II from eBay and in the process of refurbishing it.
I've already replaced the keyswitches with Matias 35cn linears, and now I just need to install a USB microcontroller and de-yellow the plastic case.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22649165/new-keyswitches.jpg
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