View Full Version : never had a mac, might get one to edit video
Hello, the last tiime i purchased a comupter was about 10 years ago, its a pc with 500mhz (used to be the fastest you can get) with avid cinema (consumer version) that i use to edit about 2 hours of video at a time, it has worked well for me except for the fact that I have to defragment my drive every 5 minutes. A friend of mine recently donated a sony dcr-vx2000 (mini dv camcorder) to me so i figure I might as well upgrade my computer, I have been using SVHS uptill today (thats how much of a dinosor i am). A month after purchasing my 500mhz a compusa rep told me I should have bought a mac because you dont need to defragment your drive you just input all your video, edit it ,& your ready to go without any waiting. I just thougt to my self hes blowing smoke up my a** because how come my pc has to defragment & a mac doesnt(plus its not something you want to hear after spending $2500 on a computer. I did a little reading on the G5 but I want to get some users opinion on the pitfalls & benefits for video editing especially if you used to use a p.c. Thanks for any help you may have to share.
thuh Freak
2005-04-11, 11:15
I can't speak to the video editing side, although from what I hear Macs are more capable in that arena. As for fragmentation, Windows has a couple of different 'file systems'. I believe the worst of the bunch (hazy memory, so I might be off) is fat32; judging by your 8yo computer, I'm guessing thats what you have. If memory serves, fat32 as a file system is incorrigable wrt fragmentation. Macs, these days, tend to use HFS+. HFS+ is significantly better than fat32, and most of the Windows file systems, wrt fragmentation and a host of other problems. I believe I read that HFS+ will not fragment a file unless its really huge and theres no real choice, where fat32 will fragment more readily. iirc, HFS+ even defrags files automatically, when it can; but someone should confirm that.
By and large though, fragmentation is not a problem with most Macs. I've used macs for more than 10 years, and I've never had to defrag one.
yes my pc is running fat32 i guess thats why i always defragment. i'm really curious as to the g5's claim that " Video producers can edit, add effects, and composite multiple streams of DV, SD, and HD content in real time. " sounds to good to be true. I can edit 2min of video without defragmenting on my pc & I'm sure the g5 can do that also but I'm wondering how it will do with an hour or maybe 2. If its the same I'll probably just get another P.C. since thats what I'm used to. But if it can edit without having to pause every 5 minutes then I'm sold. If anyone does that much video on there g5 or even g4 please let me know.
I've only ever done video on a Mac. so Maybe I don't know what your talking about, but hell I put together an hour to 1 1/2 hour DVD on my Power Mac G-5 Dual 2 Ghz. and don't do nothing except just edit and cut as I wish.
When it's done I cut the DVD and trash the video from my hard drive.
There is no "defrag" on a Mac that I know of.
Nothing messes up that I can tell .....
You mean you just import your video, do your editing and burn your dvd with no downtime? any loss of video? any jerking? you can do fades wipes etc..? what editing program do you use? Do you know if there powerbooks are just as good for video? Looks like if I do get an apple it will be with that software called production suite. I really appreciate the feedbacks I'm getting. I just dont wanto to spend big bucks & someone tell me I should have gotten something else AGAIN.
Editing video on a Mac is like getting in a car and driving to the beach.
Editing video on a PC is like getting a box full of bicycle parts, putting them together, and riding the assembled bike to the beach, only to have your bike stolen because your Norton and Spybot locks didn't work properly.
They both get you where you want to go, but the difference in the effort required is staggering.
Gargoyle
2005-04-11, 15:47
Editing video on a Mac is like getting in a car and driving to the beach.
Editing video on a PC is like getting a box full of bicycle parts, putting them together, and riding the assembled bike to the beach, only to have your bike stolen because your Norton and Spybot locks didn't work properly.
They both get you where you want to go, but the difference in the effort required is staggering.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's the best fucking analogy I have ever heard!
My advice is get the G5. You are gonna be blown away!
thuh Freak
2005-04-11, 15:50
powerbooks, and other portables, in general won't be as strong as their powermac, and non-portable, counterparts. the processor tends to be a bit weaker, and they tend not to be pimped out as much in terms of all the nerdy specs. but i dont really edit video, so i dont know how practical those differences amount to.
you are smart to be concerned. its a lot of money. do a lot of research. i recommend running to the nearest apple store (http://www.apple.com/retail/), and getting your hands on a real live mac. many of them have high-end cameras attached, and often have great software available. the one in SoHo had some expensive digi cams and iDVD and other dvd editing soft last time i went there (and that was several months ago). you might even be able to do a little test of video editing, and see if the comptuers there meet your needs. of course, if going to an apple store isn't feasible, please ask away.
Wow I didnt even think of checking if they had an apple store here in Hawaii! Ive just been checking compusa for there prices. Some hands on testing will be great! They even have a 4pm idvd workshop today!
You mean you just import your video, do your editing and burn your dvd with no downtime? any loss of video? any jerking? you can do fades wipes etc..? what editing program do you use? Do you know if there powerbooks are just as good for video? Looks like if I do get an apple it will be with that software called production suite. I really appreciate the feedbacks I'm getting. I just dont wanto to spend big bucks & someone tell me I should have gotten something else AGAIN.
Maybe I'm just simple, but all I use is the iMovie & iDVD that came with my Power Mac. They both have way more features than I can think to use. I had an iMac before I got the G5 Dual PowerMac.
The iMac G4 was a damn good computer. The PowerMac G5 Dual 2 Ghz is awsome.
These ultra mini computers (Powerbooks, MiniMacs, etc.) that so many are enthralled with are OK, but in my opionion they are cramming 6 lbs. of stuff in a 5 lb. can. The PowerMac has full sized components with room to breath, is fixable, expandable, and really by the time you add all the extras to the small units, is really not that much more money.
The Dual G5 180 Ghz is the best buy in the PowerMac line, but I wanted to be able to put all the Ram I could ever want in a unit, a giant hard drive, room for another, and an upgraded video card. So I went with the 2 Ghz. model.
And, yes my friend, all you do with a proper sized Mac is video edit to your hearts content. It'll just smile at you and ask "why are you so slow in feeding me more video?" :lol: :lol:
The Dual G5 180 Ghz is the best buy in the PowerMac line, but I wanted to be able to put all the Ram I could ever want in a unit, a giant hard drive, room for another, and an upgraded video card. So I went with the 2 Ghz. model.
The what? Do you mind getting me one of those Dual 180 GHz machines? :D
The what? Do you mind getting me one of those Dual 180 GHz machines? :D
Pardon me !!! How about a 1.8 GHz?????? :D :D :D
Okay I went to the apple store & got a couple of different advices from a couple of different reps, i was told by 2 reps that the powerbook can handle final cut pro & i was told by another that I shouldnt get a powerbook but instead get the g5 dual 2.0 with an additional 1.0 ram....all reps suggested external hard drive and they all agreed that g5 is the best but the 2 reps really say the powerbook can do the job no problem. I realy like the idea of portablitiy but if its gonna slow me down like my pc does then forget about it. Any powerbook users out there that use final cut pro? or maybe even final cut express? the projects i will be doing will have about 5 hours of raw footage that will be cut down to about 1.5.
I'm running Final Cut Pro 4.5 on a 17" Powerbook G4 1.33ghz, with 1GB of Ram. It runs perfectly usably - the G5s are faster (I have a friend with a Dual G5 doing the same stuff) but for me the portability is worth it. It's a trade-off, both will work, but the G5 will be faster and the P'Book will be portable. Both will be considerably faster than your PC, and neither will require defragging. Take your choice.
With 5 hours of raw footage, you will need an external drive or two. However, they're quite cheap these days. Above all, buy as much RAM as you can afford to cram in (third-party and fit it yourself, if you want to save cash) and don't try to run too many things at once. If you go the powerbook route, the 17" is tempting if you won't be able to get a monitor as well, due to the increased "real-estate".
There will be a learning curve if you're going from Avid to Final Cut, but I'm sure you'll get used to it. In the end, I think Final Cut is easier to use. I'd also recommend: A Jog/Shuttle dial (I use a ShuttlePro 2 (http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro/) ) the Logickeys Candy external FCP Keyboard (http://www.logickeyboard.com/) (especially if you're learning the program from scratch) and if you can afford it, an external DV deck separate from the camera - those camera transports aren't really made for the kind of constant back-and forthing you'll be subjecting it to. I assume you have a video monitor and if you get the Powerbook, you might want a bigger monitor. Some will say get a CRT beacuse of teh colour, but you should be proofing colour on the video monitor, not the Macs monitor, anyway.
Pm if you want any more help.
Bryson
BarracksSi
2005-04-12, 21:26
powerbooks, and other portables, in general won't be as strong as their powermac, and non-portable, counterparts. the processor tends to be a bit weaker, and they tend not to be pimped out as much in terms of all the nerdy specs.
But then again, for the most part, the portables are as capable as the desktops were not too long ago. Those were used for video editing without too much hassle.
m32b808, may I suggest that you give it a real shot with iMovie and iDVD before jumping into FCP. If they're not capable enough, then you'll know for sure why you'd invest in FCP.
i'm really curious as to the g5's claim that " Video producers can edit, add effects, and composite multiple streams of DV, SD, and HD content in real time. " sounds to good to be true. ... If anyone does that much video on there g5 or even g4 please let me know.
I can vouch for that. I edit all kinds of video on my Dual G5, and multiple streams work well but with a catch: You need to be able to MOVE the video data without bottlenecks. That is, although the G5 can handle 7 streams of DV at once, don't try to do that with one 5400 RPM firewire drive. It is best to save the video on a bunch of fast drives. Moderate editing will not run into this problem.
I have very little experience with HDTV editing because I currently have 8GB, 20GB, 9Gb, and 4GB free on my hard drives. (Out of 810GB ) :D Hot Damn! I rock! :smokey:
macmxroolz
2005-04-12, 21:58
You really owe it to yourself in considering getting a Mac for doing video editing. I myself am not too familiar with it. It is just that I have witnessed people doing video editing\rendering on both Windows and Mac machines.
Without a doubt, the 'weaker/hardware wise' Mac machines won hands down over the 'stronger/hardware wise' Windows machines. I am going to try to get my friend who does a lot of editing to comment on this thread, because he can help steer you in the right direction. The only stuff I can say about IMovie and Final Cut Pro is that Final Cut Pro is rather hard and is really for professionals. If you use Final Cut Pro and become used to it, you will appreciate it. You should have a separate hard drive set up to be the scratch drive for Final Cut Pro. BTW, my friend ran Final Cut Pro on a 12" PowerMac with 728? MB RAM and used a Maxtor external drive for the longest time. He told me it was slow at times but said it never crashed and was very happy with it.
BTW, Macs do get fragmented. It is my understanding that OS automatically defrags or optimizes after installing a program. Also defragmentation occurs automatically at certain times after a threshold is met. The 'pagefile' is almost never fragmented. There are third party programs that do defrag the hard drive (and are actually good) but there is really no reason to use them except for very special cases. The file format used by OS X helps guard against defragmentation better than NTFS and FAT32.
macmxroolz
2005-04-12, 23:10
I am posting this for a friend (I thought you might find it helpful):
I have a PowerMac Dual G5 2,0. with 512 (will upgrade soon) of memory
and 160GB Maxtor internal HD and 250 GB Maxter External HD. Both spin at
7200 and both have 8mb cache.
I never have to defragment my computer when i do iMovie editing (this
is true for both my Powerbook G4 and Powermac G5). This longest piece
ive done was an hour and half interview/musical show and all i did
after i was complete was delete my files and archive my images.
As for Final Cut pro editing i have little experiance. I have been
told, and read in professtional manuals, that using a second
'dedicated' hard drive for storing your video files are a must. This
second drive is called a 'scratch' drive and is dedicated as such
because of all the fragments it will create...i guess.
As for you choosing between a Mac OS or WIN system...you really dont
have a choice...go with the MAC OS.
Goodluck
autodata
2005-04-13, 08:01
From your short description about how you work with video, you should be using a mac. I doubt it really matters whether you have a g5 tower or a powerbook, but if you don't mind having a tower you should go with it. I've used fcp on powerbooks for a long time, and it works perfectly fine. I have a bunch of firewire drives, but often I'll just edit off of the internal drive if I'm not doing too much at once. You should certainly just use imovie first before spending the money on final cut express. Any modern apple set-up you get will be light years beyond what you have now.
You'll note that most people are telling you to give iMovie & iDVD a try before you spring for FCP.
Rember on a new Mac, you'll be getting iMovieHD & iDVD5. These are the newest, updated versions. I have them on my new PowerMac G5 Dual 2 Ghz . They have many improvements and are integrated into the Mac system. I'd be suprised if you'll want anything else.
If movie editing is really your big thing I can't see anything but a full sized PowerMac. Sure you can dig the Panama Canal with a spade, but it's a lot easier with a power shovel. The "Mini sized" computers are a lot more fragile in anybodys line.
Probably worth mentioning that the Production Suite is due an Update quite soon, so don't buy it yet...
Ok. after doing my research i went down to the store to pick me up a powerbook I brought my vx2000(camcorder) to test some inputs, the video clips they had on the computers were great but with my camera the video was jerky, the rep suggested we try the dual 2.0 & that was actually worse....that rep called another rep over who was familiar with video & assured me it was just some kind of glitch (at this point i'm really skeptical :confused: ) anyway i took the dual 2.0 upgraded to 1ram home & it worked PERFECT for video, but the disc drive wouldnt eject properly. I thought to myself maybe the powerbook will work perfectl also? So i brought the dual back & asked to replace with laptop. To my surprise they told me there was a restocking fee, I was upset because i asked the rep who helped me what there return policy was & he said 14days & he mentioned nothing about the fee. The cashier who wrote it up was sort of an idiot because she didnt mention it to me she just folded the reciept put it in this little folder & gave it to me. to back my story up i told the reps she didnt charge me for the extra ram. they were suprised! they told me they appreciated my honesty by not pulling the ram out before bringing the unit back & so they didnt charge me a fee. So now i have the 15" powerbook which they called "ultimate" because it already had the upgraded ram I also got external 200gb. Took it home played with it & the video was JERKY, but when i burned it to dvd it was perfect!!??? Connected the laptop to a monitor & the monitor plays perfect. I guess the screen on the laptop is not good for video because thats the only time the video is jerky when viewing on the laptop (maybe i can get that corrected by visiting a differnt part of this forum). Anyway I'm very happy with the laptop, I imported about 4 hours of video in 1 NIGHT! The only reason i stoped was because it was already 4am & I GOT TIRED!!!**holbox--my laptop was SMILING & asking for more!!!!** ;) On my pc that would have taken at least a week! I didnt get final cut pro yet but Im feeling very confident that my powerbook will be able to handle it. I'm gonna do some research about final cut pro & final cut express.....HEY ALL I REALLY REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR ENCOURAGEMENT, THANKS SO MUCH! AND ALOHA from Hawaii!!!! :) :)
thuh Freak
2005-04-13, 15:00
:) enjoy
:) I'm glad you're enjoying your computer, but this bit piqued my curiosity:
Took it home played with it & the video was JERKY, but when i burned it to dvd it was perfect!!??? Connected the laptop to a monitor & the monitor plays perfect. I guess the screen on the laptop is not good for video because thats the only time the video is jerky when viewing on the laptop
This is very odd. :confused: There should be absolutely no difference between playing video on the built-in screen versus an external monitor. What application are you using to play this video?
The refresh rate for the video on the macs screen is often not quite that of the "proper" video output via firewire. I'm not sure I'd describe it as Jerky though. Remember, you really shouldn't be looking at the Mac screen when you edit - you should be looking at the monitor.
(BTW, I mean Video monitor, not PC monitor)
I've noticed a little difference between on-screen video and exported video through the camera, but nothing big enough worth mentioning. But using a different screen/monitor hooked up to the same video card should give you the same results.
Strange. :confused:
autodata
2005-04-13, 19:01
I suggest you try to find out why the video is 'jerky' since it's likely not due to the computer.
apfelsaft
2005-04-13, 22:10
Did your try unplugging the Firewire connection to your camera?
Is the preview on your Powerbook screen still 'jerky' without the camera connected?
Right now im running Imovie. The jerkyness happens when i import with my camera and also during playback without the camera, I thought maybe it was the external hard drive that was giving me problems so i imported video directly to the laptop & still experienced the same chalenge, I have burned 3 other dvd's to check the quality of the video 2 with just 2 minutes of film and one with 15minutes & there perfect. Ill try & do a 1 hour tonight to see if that one is good (fingers crossed) With my pc i had to be sure to turn off my norton utilities which was continuosly running & also my virus protection and also the auto schedular, is there anything with the mac i should disable? I also borowed a friends minidv camcorder & will import video with that to test for the jerkiness to be sure its not my camcorders quality of recording.
The jerkyness IS the camera. All the Mac will do is mirror back to you what you put into it.
... to back my story up i told the reps she didnt charge me for the extra ram. they were suprised! they told me they appreciated my honesty by not pulling the ram out before bringing the unit back & so they didnt charge me a fee.
ha, I bet she's out of a job.
m32b808, how much ram does your powerbook have? Was it one of the newer ones that has the 6400 rpm hard drive as well?
Just curious.
By the way m32b808 ... from the looks of this test (if you guys know of others please post em), it seems like powerbooks are going to enjoy major speen increases from Tiger (10.4). You might want to invest in it.
http://www.mactouch.com/IMG/gif/Tiger_Benchs_MacTouch.gif
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