View Full Version : When will sports go digital?
It seems to me that professional sports is one of the few industries that has not gone digital. What I mean by that is why aren't there plans to implement microchips in balls and lines of play and take the human error out of the equation. Right now I think tennis is the only sport that implements some sort of technological 'umpire' with regards to let calls. Wouldn't adding chips and receivers end all debates on wether a football (American) crossed the goal line? Another instance would be wether a runner was safe at first based on wether the base recorded a depression or the glove recorded the ball first.
I could see this being first implemented in American football or hockey where they already use instant replay.
When will sports go digital?
Whoops, I guess this should be in General Discussion and not AppleOutsider. Would a kind mod move it?
I think cost and reliability is a big part of it. Also, there's simply not a great need in many instances. Tennis is a rare exception because it's so easy to midjudge on-the-line calls, even when you're right on top of them. And those types of plays happen *every* play, so it's critical.
Baseball is - in theory at least - one major sport that could use a serious dose of technology if one is ever created to address the problem calling pitch counts. There are of course, problems with this because strikes and balls are determined by the player's height. Mark Lemke's strike zone wasn't the same as David Justice's IOW. But assuming they *could* come up with a reasonable definition everyone agreed on, then somehow, behind home plate (or maybe above it) they could use some type of spatial radar technology to call it. Home plate ump is there to call plays at home and just because we need a big heavy dude behind the plate or it isn't baseball anymore.
It should be noted however, this will cause baseball purists like Bob Costas and David Halberstam to keal over from massive stress-induced stroke. To them, yelling at the ump and arguing balls and strikes with the guy next to you is an integral (and I do mean integral) part of the baseball experience. Can't say I disagree either, but technically speaking calling pitches is where baseball could use tech the most.
:D
Football has about all the technology it needs except in the areas of player protection (particularly light but protective helmets) IMO. Anymore and it will start to ruin the flavor of the game.
Basketball likewise has no real need for anything other than a replay maybe. Give coaches one challenge per half on foul calls, basically. If they are right and the ref called contact when there was none (or vice versa), the team in question gets the ball or whatever is called for. If they get it wrong, 4 pts for the opposing team. Will make challenging the ref at the end of the close games a real ball-buster, so you'd better be sure of yourself.
Hockey could use a reliable camera technology that can reside *within the posts and crossbar*, in order to make reviewing of goals much more reliable. That non-goal for Calgary in the Finals for example, could've been reliably determined if there had been a post-mounted camera. Except for the overhead view (which is still off-center sometimes), many times the guys in the booth get wierd-angle views of the puck that can be deceiving. The one with Calgary is a pefect example. I don't think it was actually in, but it definitely looked like it from the camera views. The guys in the both could've easily ruled it a goal but didn't.
And of course there are all kinds of iffy goals that get called (or not) every single week in the NHL so that would be a huge boon and wouldn't change the flavor of the game except to reduce the amount of time replay delays take (a good thing »).
Other sports that might benefit:
ski-jumping (real-time telemetry in the visor maybe)
bob-sledding and luge (3D wireframe in conjunction with GPS, also mounted in visor.. would be used in case of bad lighting conditions)
Cycling (real-time vital signs and race stats via watch... might already be a reality, as I'm sure it's technically feasible).
baseball, in order to get umpires to have a more consistent strike zone have instituted a system called QUESTEC (http://www.questec.com/q2001/index.htm) which shows umpires what they miss, when calling balls and strikes behind the plate.
last year was the first year they were graded on it, and although they've chafed at it, most agree that it's created amore consistent strike zone from umpire to umpire.
SBC STADIUM (http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/sf/ballpark/wifi.jsp) where the giants play ball, has FREE wireless access, in addition to allowing general wireless access, it also offers something called a digital dugout, that enhances the game with instant replay and other goodies.
When FOX was carrying the hockey games in the late 90s, they had chips in them for the TV comet-tail effect. There's nothing particularly digital about the tennis Mac-cam system. It just offers replay with a high speed camera. If you count that then the challenge rule in the NFL should count too, and the buzzer beating shot replay in basketball.
windowsblowsass
2004-06-17, 16:45
i forget who exactly is doing it but i saw a feature on techtv a while back about a company developing a system so that a line simalar to the one seen on tv could be seen on the actual football field with the use of a laser
Doesn't hockey have inferred LED's in the puck used for tracking by inferred cameras? I remember a TV show or something about the special puck and can picture it so clearly in my head. :err:
Doesn't hockey have inferred LED's in the puck used for tracking by inferred cameras? I remember a TV show or something about the special puck and can picture it so clearly in my head. :err:
FoxTRAX... it was radio based, with a series of receivers around the rink to triangulate position, map it to camera viewports, and then give it that sill 'halo' effect to try and make it easier for folks to see the puck, and gain viewership.
Duh, just have everyone buy an HDTV...
Strike zones would be pretty easy, really... a transceiver in the top of a kneepad (bottom of the zone), one at shoulder level (top of the zone), etc. I mean hell, if they can make RFID tags paper thin and an inch long they can do this. Make them passive, with the pinger *in the ball*. As it passes, it activates them. A receiver under home plate picks up all the signals, and determines where the ball was in relation to the tags. Bingo.
Now go engineer it, my minions.
NASCAR could use a little more technology to keep the running order straight. Two out of the past three or four races have ended on a yellow flag and they havn't been positive of the running order when the yellow flag was displayed. A simple GPS system would straighten the whole thing out. Heck FOX uses GPS to track the cars so the fans can see how far a driver is fro the first place car. You'd think NASCAR could use the same GPS transmitters as FOX does.
FoxTRAX... it was radio based, with a series of receivers around the rink to triangulate position, map it to camera viewports, and then give it that sill 'halo' effect to try and make it easier for folks to see the puck, and gain viewership.
Yah, that was one of the cheeziest technology implementations in sports that I've ever seen. While it may be a little tough to follow the puck when you first start watching, as soon as you understand the flow of the game, you can pretty easily anticipate where to look as a play progresses. Making the puck look like a 21st century version of "Pong" was one of the dumbest things I can remember in televised sports.
Even so, following the puck is not what makes or breaks hockey as a TV sport. Low scoring games and ties in a "score 100 points" society doesn't go over well. Same reason soccer will never be a big TV sport here. Some people just don't get the concept that a game can end in a tie or 2-1 and still have been an extremely exciting game.
What kills me is some of the same people who bitch about soccer and hockey being "boring" watch golf. Evidently golf is "exciting" for some reason even though you cannot see the ball at all on TV in that sport except when it's on approach for landing, generally.
:)
windowsblowsass
2004-06-17, 18:54
Yah, that was one of the cheeziest technology implementations in sports that I've ever seen. While it may be a little tough to follow the puck when you first start watching, as soon as you understand the flow of the game, you can pretty easily anticipate where to look as a play progresses. Making the puck look like a 21st century version of "Pong" was one of the dumbest things I can remember in televised sports.
Even so, following the puck is not what makes or breaks hockey as a TV sport. Low scoring games and ties in a "score 100 points" society doesn't go over well. Same reason soccer will never be a big TV sport here. Some people just don't get the concept that a game can end in a tie or 2-1 and still have been an extremely exciting game.
What kills me is some of the same people who bitch about soccer and hockey being "boring" watch golf. Evidently golf is "exciting" for some reason even though you cannot see the ball at all on TV in that sport except when it's on approach for landing, generally.
:)
golf has a certain mystic about it, kind of like a game that you care about and is fun but you have no idea how or why
but i do agree that sports are exciting with low scores look at the pacers detroit series very low scoring for basketball but an incredibly suspensefull series
Strike zones would be pretty easy, really... a transceiver in the top of a kneepad (bottom of the zone), one at shoulder level (top of the zone), etc. I mean hell, if they can make RFID tags paper thin and an inch long they can do this. Make them passive, with the pinger *in the ball*. As it passes, it activates them. A receiver under home plate picks up all the signals, and determines where the ball was in relation to the tags. Bingo.
Now go engineer it, my minions.
This is exactly what I was thinking about. I could very well see a time in the near future when an ump blows a major play in the playoffs and the fans go nuts. Not a 'close' play, but something really obvious and that determines the outcome of the game/series. The technology will be ubiquitous is the rest of our lives. Hell, most casinos use this technology to track their employees.
I just wonder if it's a matter of time.
ThunderPoit
2004-06-18, 01:48
honestly, i think that most of that stuff would ruin the game, any game. sports dont need that much tech, theyve survived for decades without it, all adding this stuff would do is add complexity to the game and cause teams to win off of a technicality cuz a computer said so. Dont get me wrong, i have faith in technology, but most people dont and would hate to see the human factor removed, even if it does add a margin for error.
thuh Freak
2004-06-18, 12:30
Even so, following the puck is not what makes or breaks hockey as a TV sport. Low scoring games and ties in a "score 100 points" society doesn't go over well. Same reason soccer will never be a big TV sport here. Some people just don't get the concept that a game can end in a tie or 2-1 and still have been an extremely exciting game.
What kills me is some of the same people who bitch about soccer and hockey being "boring" watch golf. Evidently golf is "exciting" for some reason even though you cannot see the ball at all on TV in that sport except when it's on approach for landing, generally.
:)
americans don't dislike hockey just because of ties and low scoring. we also hate it cuz it sucks. :p (mods, i don't get banned for that, right? ;))
golf has an allure to it, for some people, presumably because its a rich guy sport. if you actually watch it, its probably because you've played (or would like others to think you play). if you've played, it means u could afford to join some country club or what-have-you. atleast, thats why i think people like it. i tried hitting a ball at a range once or twice and it was deathly boring. i can't imagine people deriving joy from it. mini-golf on the other hand, that can be some good fun. ...o god- the windmill... its in the way.. o no!...
americans don't dislike hockey just because of ties and low scoring. we also hate it cuz it sucks. :p (mods, i don't get banned for that, right? ;))
Naw, you just get branded for life as the jealous wussy that you are. :D
Most sports medicine folks agree that hockey is the most demanding sport to play. You need speed *and* stamina *and* strength *and* eye-hand coordination *and* toughness *and* mental acuity *and* spatial reasoning. It's a rare combination.
psmith2.0
2004-06-18, 12:39
NASCAR could use a little more technology to keep the running order straight. Two out of the past three or four races have ended on a yellow flag and they havn't been positive of the running order when the yellow flag was displayed. A simple GPS system would straighten the whole thing out. Heck FOX uses GPS to track the cars so the fans can see how far a driver is fro the first place car. You'd think NASCAR could use the same GPS transmitters as FOX does.
Amen! Pocono was a mess last week (but I wish Kenseth would've ran into Harvick harder! ;) ). So different this season, all these rule changes, so I figure there would be some "ironing out" to do. One thing that's REALLY been driving me nuts: these stupid-ass, LONG cautions!
:mad:
I mean, someone spins out on the backstretch - no debris, no oil, etc. - and they take like 50 caution laps?!?! Okay, I'm exaggerating on the "50 laps", but damn! They take A LOT, wouldn't you agree?
Seems like the last month or so, these races have been conducted at 55mph 1/3 of the time!
:(
windowsblowsass
2004-06-18, 12:54
Amen! Pocono was a mess last week (but I wish Kenseth would've ran into Harvick harder! ;) ). So different this season, all these rule changes, so I figure there would be some "ironing out" to do. One thing that's REALLY been driving me nuts: these stupid-ass, LONG cautions!
:mad:
I mean, someone spins out on the backstretch - no debris, no oil, etc. - and they take like 50 caution laps?!?! Okay, I'm exaggerating on the "50 laps", but damn! They take A LOT, wouldn't you agree?
Seems like the last month or so, these races have been conducted at 55mph 1/3 of the time!
:(
actually pocono had a new scoring sytem impemented where there was essentially multiple start/finish lines monitored cmputerly and they score the caution by the order when they passed the last one of them
psmith2.0
2004-06-18, 12:59
Everyone seemed so confused, though. The drivers and even Joy, McReynolds and Waltrip acted like they weren't 100% sure. In the post-race interviews (and that show that comes on later on Speed) that was a big part of the discussion).
It was STILL a mess because it's rare you see such blatant "back and forth" as Harvick and Kenseth. I'm hoping someone will whip Kevin Harvick's ass, live on Fox, some Sunday afternoon. It's half the reason I tune in anymore.
:lol:
And Jarrett had a top 5 finish all sewn up and blew an engine at the VERY end (what, less than 6 laps to go?).
:mad:
Tough to be an 88 fan this past season-and-a-half...
:)
Naw, you just get branded for life as the jealous wussy that you are. :D
Most sports medicine folks agree that hockey is the most demanding sport to play. You need speed *and* stamina *and* strength *and* eye-hand coordination *and* toughness *and* mental acuity *and* spatial reasoning. It's a rare combination.
Don't forget heaping helpings of agility and rock-solid balance.
psmith2.0
2004-06-18, 13:39
...and a righteous mullett and/or a cool-looking three-day beard growth! Missing a front tooth or two only gets you closer!
Hockey players are some of the goofiest-looking sons-of-bitches I've ever seen.
:lol:
[ducks behind a Zamboni...]
Naw, you just get branded for life as the jealous wussy that you are. :D
Most sports medicine folks agree that hockey is the most demanding sport to play. You need speed *and* stamina *and* strength *and* eye-hand coordination *and* toughness *and* mental acuity *and* spatial reasoning. It's a rare combination.
Link? Are these sports medicine guys hockey fans?
That just means you need people who are good at all those categories. That doesn't make it more demanding at all. I think being a top-flight sprinter is just as demanding even though all you need to do is run.
This is somewhat tech-related, but I think it would fit better in AppleOutsider since there's quite a lot of discussion of sports and not much discussion about the tech industry.
EDIT: Hah, I just noticed that HOM originally requested this to go to AO. Well, it's here now, sorry I'm late!
This is somewhat tech-related, but I think it would fit better in AppleOutsider since there's quite a lot of discussion of sports and not much discussion about the tech industry.
HA! I originally posted this in AO, but asked alcimedes to move it to GD because I wanted to focus on the technology aspect. Alas the Off Topic Brigade strikes again.
:\
Link? Are these sports medicine guys hockey fans?
That just means you need people who are good at all those categories. That doesn't make it more demanding at all. I think being a top-flight sprinter is just as demanding even though all you need to do is run.
Uhhhh... :confused:
Finding athletes who are able to exhibit "all those categories" is a lot harder than finding athletes who can run fast. It does make it more demanding, a lot more. Maybe you can argue a sprinter puts more demand on his heart and lungs for those 8 seconds or whatever but... common. Be reasonable.
:|
Scates: in reference to the righteous mullet, I direct you to the source. (http://www.mulletsgalore.com/) . Meanwhile... enjoy this masterpiece until training camp starts (maybe next) August.
http://nhl.speedera.net/photos/bubbleboys2003/gretzky_melrose_play.jpg
Now you know why Wayne might've made it into the Hall, but Barry made it into television.
:D
I think being a top-flight sprinter is just as demanding even though all you need to do is run.
At least a sprinter doesn't have to worry about being crushed into boards at the finish line, or being flipped over by a hip check.
:lol:
I think the biggest demand of a world class sprinter is choosing the right drug combinations. heh heh
alcimedes
2004-06-18, 17:02
no kidding. sprinting seems almost as sketchy as biking and baseball as far as steroid use goes.
odd part is how harsh football is regarding steroid use. although, i suppose since if you're really big you kill people, that's understandable.
At least a sprinter doesn't have to worry about being crushed into boards at the finish line, or being flipped over by a hip check.
I think the biggest demand of a world class sprinter is choosing the right drug combinations. heh heh
:lol: Zing.
Uhhhh... :confused:
Finding athletes who are able to exhibit "all those categories" is a lot harder than finding athletes who can run fast. It does make it more demanding, a lot more. Maybe you can argue a sprinter puts more demand on his heart and lungs for those 8 seconds or whatever but... common. Be reasonable.
I'm being absolutely reasonable. If the hockey player could out-sprint a sprinter, out-last a marathon runner, out-lift a weightlifter, and out-balance a gymnast, there would be no argument from me, but come on...
In all these sports, the demands are still there. Even though they may not need all the skills to succeed, they need to elevate one or two to a CRAZY level just to compete. To me that makes many sports equally demanding on the athlete.
Wasn't this thread moved from AppleOutsider to General Discussion? Now it's back...Heh.
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.