Need help with Gentoo Linux install

[propellerhead]

Yes VVickes, this is partially directed at you.. I've got an old Wallstreet and I want to put Gentoo Linux on it. I've downloaded all of the neccesary .iso files. What I can't seem to do it actually boot the Gentoo LiveCD and BootX. I haven't moved any files nor have I been able to start BootX since 'a suitable Linux kernal was not found.' I'm trying to follow the installation guide and it says I can boot off the LiveCD by holding down C at startup, but this does not work either. The Wallstreet continues to boot off of the clean 9.2 install I did.

[thuh Freak]

sometimes this works, or helps to narrow the problem: from os9, go to the control panels folder. lookup for 'startup disk' (or something similar, its been a while since i've been in os9). with the gentoo cd in the drive (and in the computer), open this control panel. you should now notice it in the list. if it is selectable, select it, save and restart (keep the cd in the computer). if it isn't, it means the cd isn't 'bootable'. bootx should only be required on oldworld machines (if memory serves). what year did the wallsteets debut? bootx, i'm pretty sure, requires a kernel on the macos side. so you'll have to run over to ppckernel.org, pick your favorite kernel and bring it mac-side. i haven't used bootx in some time, but you can check the docs as to where the kernel binary has to go, and how to select it. kind of a side-question: do you intend to have both os9 & gnu/linux on the same hard drive?

[propellerhead]

I did try using the Start-Up Disk control panel to see if the LiveCD I downloaded from gentoo.org was bootable. It wasn't selectable (i.e. bootable), yet the documentation on the Gentoo website says all of the LiveCDs are. Yeah, the Wallstreets are OldWorld machines, since they don't have OpenFirmware. I was reading the BootX docs and I know where the kernal has to go, but I just don't know where it is on the Gentoo CD. I'm not planning on having both on the same HD. I've got a 2GB internal that I'm using for OS 9.2 and a 6GB expansion bay HD that I've wiped clean that (hopefully) I'll be using for Linux. Thanks for the advice though.

[propellerhead]

Ok, I think I've gotten somewhere. I was able to get BootX to see a valid Kernal, and I assigned a RAM disk, but now when I choose Linux as the boot OS, I do not see the boot: prompt that the install guide says I should. All I see is a Welcome to Linux, Kernel 2.6.5-gentoo-G4 and then a short list of stuff starting with pmac_init(): exit and ending with arch: exit. There are about 14 items total in the list. It is white text on a black screen. Note: I've checked the Gentoo forums, the G4 kernel will run on a G3.

[Wickers]

You should be able to boot off the CD. . .
Give that another shot or two.

Bootx is used to boot an installed system. If you just run the kernel, it won't do much, you need to install everything else to get a workable system.

Get the CD to boot. . . then fallow the handbook line for line.

[propellerhead]

Hmmm...alright then...can I do anything else besides reboot and hold down the C key with the LiveCD in the drive? I've done that many times already and it hasn't worked. :confused:

[Wickers]

If you have another Mac in the house just test the CD on it. . . to make sure that it boots.

When you hold down 'c' does the CD spin up and read for a bit? or is it just skipping to the hard drive.

[propellerhead]

When I reboot and hold down 'C' I hear the CD drive spin up first like it is about to read the CD, then I hear the HD kick in and I see the OS 9.2 Splash Screen. The Startup Disk control panel only sees the HD as a bootable volume. I'll see if I can get a screen shot.

[Wickers]

Ok, now check if the CD boots on another mac.

[propellerhead]

Ok, now check if the CD boots on another mac.

Heh, I just tried it on a slot-loading iMac. It read the CD just fine. The boot prompt came up just like the documentation said it would. So now we know it's a bootable CD. I just need to figure out why my Wallstreet won't see it as one. Oh, the iMac is running 10.2.8. Might it have something to do with the fact that the iMac has OpenFirmware while the Wallstreet does not?

[Wickers]

The CD should then boot on your laptop. . .
While it is pre-openfirmware it should still boot off a CD.

interesting. . .

[propellerhead]

interesting. . .

You're telling me..

:\ ;)

Now it's going to bug me for the rest of the day why the Wallstreet won't boot off the CD. :mad: :grumble: :no: :confused:

[thuh Freak]

i've never succeeded at getting an alternate OS (ie, gnu/linux or a bsd derivative) on an oldworld machine myself. but i was poking around gentoo's site, looking for old world specific stuff (fyi, you can google for stuff on a specific website like this "site:gentoo.org my search terms"), and i noticed this (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15062) bug report. it claims that there is a stuffit archive on the livecd made for old worlds, with an installer. apparently it is necessary before you boot from the cd on oldworld machines. do you have any .sits on your livecd? any stuffit related files at all? anything that jumps out saying "hey this is for oldWorld machines"?

[Wickers]

Good find. . .

I hope it works for him.

*pats thuh Freak on the back* (we will convert more yet!)

[propellerhead]

Interesting.

I'll check the LiveCD and the Packages CD right now.

[propellerhead]

Hmmm...not a thing.

I did a search for .sit, .bin, and .hqx

Nothing came up. Only a lot of .tar distro files.

Thanks for the help guys but it seems I'm stuck.

[thuh Freak]

good god, i just thought of something genius. and by genius, i mean theoretically possible.

if you can get a ext2 or ext3 driver on the mac side of that box (i know theres one for osx, but i haven't tried it myself; i dont know if theres one for os9), you could, maybe, do the gentoo install from the mac side. you'd have to do a stage3 install (thats the almost entirely, or entirely, binary one, right?). what you'd do is format and mount the linux drive, and then just decompress and untar the stage3 files onto that drive. then tell bootx to use it. the crux would be getting an ext2 or 3 driver.

crapola! if memory serves me right (and it almost certainly doesn't), linux 2.6.3ish (or maybe it was back in the 2.5 series) can mount hfs+ drives. i'm pretty sure that i read somewhere it can boot off these puppies too. we can hope that the base kernel has the proper modules compiled or builtin. so, maybe, you could do a base install on a small hfs+ partition (i recommend that this hfs+ partition be temporary, or only for base stuff. i'm not confident in linux's hfs+ abilities). you can try formatting your linux drive to make a small (i think a few hundred megs should be good for a base minimum) hfs+ partition, and an unformatted or whatever formatted partition. copy the untarballed files onto the small partition and tell bootx to use that. then cross your fingers and hope for success. assuming it works, it would probably be prudent to copy everything over to a more linux-friendly file system, like ext2 or ext3.

the unfortunate (fortunate?) part of these ideas is you wouldn't have the option of the long, grueling stage1 install. but don't fret, once you get gentoo up and running, you can do 'emerge sync && emerge world' to update all your out of date packages. if you wait a week or so before doing that, probably most (or atleast many) of your packages will be out of date, thence requiring a compile. thats kind of like a stage1.

[Wickers]

sounds like an idea. . .

But he is running OS 8.6. . . and you need a CLI (using bash) to do a Gentoo install. You could do this from Panther, but not <= 9. . .

Unless there is a tool for OS 9 that serves as a Bash CLI, and you would also need mkfs and a few other programs for the CLI.



I suggest you just yank the drive, slap it in another mac. Do the install from there, setting it up for a G3. . . yank the drive out again, slap it back into the laptop, and boot.

[propellerhead]

Would it be possible to mount the laptop's HD over ethernet on my iMac, (have it mount on reboot) run the LiveCD on my iMac but install everything on the laptop's HD?

I have two HDs in the Wallstreet, a 2GB running 9.2 and a completely blank 6GB in an expansion bay. I would be installing on the 6GB.

[thuh Freak]

But he is running OS 8.6. . . and you need a CLI (using bash) to do a Gentoo install. You could do this from Panther, but not <= 9. . .

Unless there is a tool for OS 9 that serves as a Bash CLI, and you would also need mkfs and a few other programs for the CLI.
i thought that the stage3 didn't req any compiling at all, and little cli work, ie just untaring files onto the hd. its been a while since i did an install, so i could be wrong. and mkfs could be avoided by using an os9 or os8 disk utility to format the drive in two partitions (an hfs+ and a 'whatever: to be replaced once we get into linux').

Would it be possible to mount the laptop's HD over ethernet on my iMac, (have it mount on reboot) run the LiveCD on my iMac but install everything on the laptop's HD?

I have two HDs in the Wallstreet, a 2GB running 9.2 and a completely blank 6GB in an expansion bay. I would be installing on the 6GB.
theoretically, yes. assuming that its possible at all to do this install from outside a linux environment (a feat i'm pretty sure is likely), it should then be possible to do it on a share.

you'd have to format the 6giger, share it (i forget how to share in pre-osx, something about control panels ...?), locate the share from the imac. then, from the imac, unball the stage3 files onto the share.

wickes is making me doubt that the stage3 install is just tarballs though. i'm gonna go checkout the manual to see what i'm forgetting.

update: i was quickly reading through manual, and i noticed they want you to do a number of things before your first boot. imo, they aren't absolutely necessary for first boot, except the kernel configuration. thats the tricky one. i'm not sure if stage3 has a kernel or if you are req'd to compile one. since you have a newworld machine at your disposal, you can almost certainly run the livecd from there, hopefully mount the foreign harddrive in some kind of sharing manner, and do all the necessary configs like that. i'm not sure if os8 or 9 allowed samba sharing (i have a feeling that started with osx), but appletalk sharing might, on an off chance, be an option on the livecd. i'm not very familiar with appletalk sharing, and dont really know how to do that from linux though.

[propellerhead]

I don't think stage 3 requires any compiling.

According to the handbook, a stage3 install is 'required if you want to install Gentoo using prebuilt packages or without a network connection.'

[Wickers]

Stage 3 provides many pre-built packages. . . and it can save you lots of time if you are installing on a slower system. However, you just get what they feel is right for your system, you can't tweak much.

With stage 3, you still need to compile a kernel, a system logger, cron deamon, file system tools (hfs+ mount support) and optional networking tools (like DSL tools, rp-pppoe) All of which are provided on the LiveCD so you don't need a network connection.

You need to do much more then just unpack tar balls.

[Res]

I don't know anything about Gentoo, but yellowdog linux installed without a problem on my wallstreet PB.

[Wickers]

Well see if the YDL insall CD boots. . . if it does then you just need get the right Gentoo live CD for oldworld boxes.
;)

[Wickers]

Dumb question but. . .

You have asked around http://forums.gentoo.org/ right?