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uyg53
2005-06-16, 00:44
I'm sure you're all sick of the "12" PowerBook vs. 14" iBook" debate. I apologize in advance for another thread about it. However, I've been searching many forums for information, and I cannot find one that adresses ALL of the issues with both of them, so it's hard to compare. I am going to college in the fall, majoring in Music Technology, so I will be doing a lot of music work.

Here are my options:

14? iBook
1.33 GHz G4
768 MB RAM
80 GB HD, 4200 RPM
Combo Drive (DVD-Rom/CD-RW)
Radeon 9200 (32 MB)
$1379


12? PowerBook
1.5 GHz G4
768 MB RAM
60 GB HD, 5200 RPM
Combo Drive
GeForce FX GO 5200 (64 MB)
$1467

My concerns/questions (ones with asterisk are especially important):

Powerbook has audio-in, iBook does not
*Powerbook has poor wireless reception (or has this been fixed?), how much worse is it?
*Powerbook has poor battery life, how much worse than the iBook would it be?
iBook does not have the scrolling trackpad feature
In this configuration, the iBook has a larger, although slower, hard drive.
The Powerbook has a better graphics card
How much of a difference will the processor speeds make?


As if I'm not already struggling enough with a decision, another option is a fully loaded 12" iBook, mainly because I like the smaller size. Will the processor power difference 133 MHz be too great if I was to go this route?

Do these notebooks use standard notebook hard drives or is are they Apple-specific ones? I'd like a larger hard drive, but don't want to pay the extremely high Apple price for one.

There's most likely a lot I'm forgetting, but thank you very much in advance.

EDIT: I did forget to mention that I will also most likely be running gentoo linux on the computer.

DMBand0026
2005-06-16, 01:32
Music work = high demand on your computer. PowerBook, hands down.

However, since you're looking for more than that, I'll tell you exactly why.

First, the HDD speed. You'll want a fast HD if you're doing music recording directly onto the computer. Granted, you could buy a FireWire Hard drive, but you're not going to lug one around to every class with you, it's just not practical. You'll probably end up getting one for extra space/backups, but it's not practical to carry with you everywhere. PowerBook 1, iBook 0

If you're majoring in music tech, you're probably going to be doing recordings and stuff like that. How are you going to record with no audio in? PowerBook 2, iBook 0

Wireless reception isn't much of a concern anymore, they're both very good. As a matter of fact, I installed Tiger today on my 12" PowerBook and I now get perfect AirPort reception when earlier in the day (running Panther) I barely got enough reception to stay connected to AIM. I'm not sure why this is, but I'd say it's a good sign. PowerBook 3, iBook 0

If you get a 12" PowerBook your battery life will be comparable to the 14" iBook. Not the same, but close. A big battery drain is the screen, the bigger the display, the faster it sucks the juice. We'll call it a draw on this one and go with PowerBook 4, iBook 1

Graphics, I wouldn't worry about too much. The bottom line is that the graphics in both notebooks suck. However, in the current configuration the iBook's graphics card does not support CoreImage (a feature in OS X.4 Tiger) giving the distinct advantage to the PowerBook. PowerBook 5, iBook 1

The processor speed will not make a huge difference when they're only a few hundred mhz apart. That's another draw.

They use standard notebook hard drives. You should get the largest size you can from Apple. However, you can't swap the drives out yourself if you want to keep your warranty valid, Hard drives are not considered user installable parts, and with good reason. Like I said earlier, go with the faster internal drive of the PowerBook and get a 7200 RPM external. You can get a 200 gig seagate with a 5 year warranty for around $120 if you shop a little (try www.newegg.com)



I'd say go with the PowerBook, it's clearly the better choice for you. And you're looking at comparable prices too. The best advice I can give you though is no matter what computer you get, load it up with RAM, I'm talkin full...you should max out the RAM right off the bat, but don't buy from Apple, that's a rip off.

Mac+
2005-06-16, 02:42
Great post DMB - informative and to the point!

One more thing, though: getting audio into an iBook or PB can be achieved by using a Firewire box, such as the MOTU Traveler or a USB mic or interface. I know these are extra components, but in all honesty, most people doing "serious" recording would not rely solely on the minijack port of the 12" PB to get audio into the computer.

Interesting to note that RAM can be expanded to the same level on both the iBook and 12' PB - only 1.25GB. :\ (It's 2GB on the 15"/17" PB.)

Franz Josef
2005-06-16, 06:54
Never had a wireless problem with a PB (12" or 15") - it's first rate.

nota12b
2005-06-16, 08:42
My $.02

Just got a 12" iBook (first Apple ever). Newegg.com and Kingmax memory (Apple be d*mned - it works and for cheap! 512Mb stick for $45) and Hitachi 5k80 80Gb h/d @ 5400rpm ($117, plus $39.95 Micro Center install - you DON'T want to try this at home!!).

Memory - price-ier for PB v iB in aftermarket (holding to most-current processor types) if you decide to upgrade after purchase (which I can't recommend enough!)

Music specifics - not my forte, so weigh others suggestions appropriately.

The sales-drone told me to expect about 80% distance on the PB v iB.

Again, quoting the sales-drone, expectations should be around 3.5 hours for the PB, 4.5 for the iB. Your mileage may vary HUGELY depending on what you find acceptable (turn off APExtreme when not needed, tune-down the display to barely visible, set to sleep as-often-as-possible, etc etc etc). I'm getting over 5 hours on a new battery with it all 'turned down for battery life' settings.

Scrolling on the iB is but a hack away (along with display spanning - though I've not YET done either I understand they are both quite worthy of investigation).

H/D - if you 'want to take it with you' the internal upgrades are better/cheaper NOT-Apple - and the way I went. I DO have a 120Gb external usb/wf hd, but I like the portability (read that as 'not attached to the wall for the power source on the h/d').

Graphics - I spent a LOT of time in all the Apple stores (3 in the cities) looking at my first-love PB, but in the end was happy to pocket the difference for the iB. I've watched several movies on the iB and aside from missing the 15" w/s display on my old eMachines (don't choke!) I've been very happy with it (and the graphics are BETTER on the iB than the old emachine as the iB has DEDICATED over shared - even @ 64Mb shared - so it was a no-contest for me there too).

OK, again I'm not pushing it with current usage, but coming from a 2800+ laptop w/ 512M of ram to the 1.2 iB, 768M ram, and the upgraded 5400rpm h/d, I'm hard pressed to see a difference - honestly! Ripped some music last night as quick or faster than the old laptop did (iTunes on both - as close as I can make it for hardware to hardware comparo).

In the end - what's important to you? It's always a trade-off. I'm LOVIN' the 12" form-factor after wanting the 14" to max it out. iB is a sturdier case for packback travel (I'd cry if a PB got dented - WON'T happen w/ the iB - again, the sales-drone tole me 'aluminum, as in beer-can' ... no, I don't think *that* easy to bend, but it DID make an impression on my decision).

As for gentoo - heard it's a sweet thing. I've tinkered with Linux on x86 for a few years but never attempted g. L/T user of SuSE, RH, and some Mandrake, so very interested in how well gentoo works out for you - let us know!?!

Final thoughts:
- a quote from my long-time-user Mac buddy - if you are going to do music or video - quote you will NEVER have enough memory or processor speed /quote. Whatever you decide, good luck!
- educational discounts - didn't see if you had checked on them or not, but DO if you haven't.
- refreshed/refurbs - IF you aren't afraid of them, some $$ to be saved. Often a 1.33PB/256Mb/60G/SC is $1499 from Apple - full access to ACare avaiable.

psmith2.0
2005-06-16, 09:12
*** oops, double post...how'd that happen? ***

psmith2.0
2005-06-16, 09:13
Get the 12" PowerBook...no contest.

- Audio-in
- Faster hard drive
- Better graphics
- Scrolling pad
- Smaller
- Lighter
- More power
- AirPort reception is totally fine (I have a PowerBook...no complaints)
- Battery can't be much less than a 14" iBook, can it? :confused:
- DVI
- Monitor spanning
- Exceptionally cute and cuddly package, that 12" PowerBook :p

A lot of muscle packed into such a small, sexy laptop!

You mentioned doing music and all, and, to me, the clinchers were the audio-in and faster hard drive. All the rest is simply extra icing.

:)

uyg53
2005-06-16, 09:55
Thank you for all of your help so far! I've always been leaning towards the Powerbook, and this is pushing me further. I am concerned about the durability (I'll probably be taking it with me everywhere), but I have a nice laptop case from my old Wintel laptop, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

I'm also planning to double major in Computer Engineering (although it's quite possible that that's going to change), so the Powerbook would probably be better for me.

I'm probably going to drop the memory boost for a bigger hard drive and then upgrade the memory myself. I'd do the hard drive myself but it seems like too much of a hassle, and the warranty voiding is a problem.

I'll keep you posted on my thoughts and other concerns. I've actually been trying to decide this for well over a month, but I'm the most indecisive person I know. Thank you very much for all of your help.

atomicbartbeans
2005-06-16, 12:23
Scrolling on the iB is but a hack away (along with display spanning - though I've not YET done either I understand they are both quite worthy of investigation).
I have both screen spanning (I'm using it now) and trackpad scrolling on my 12" iBook. Both work without a hitch.

I never upgraded from the 256 MB RAM it came with, and yet OS X still runs quite fast. Even iMovie, Photoshop, etc. run fine on 256 MB. Of course, I may be singing a different tune once I upgrade to Tiger...

Wrao
2005-06-16, 12:28
oops, I didn't notice what I had to say was already said, cheers. get the powerbook :p

Luca
2005-06-16, 12:39
Memory - price-ier for PB v iB in aftermarket (holding to most-current processor types) if you decide to upgrade after purchase (which I can't recommend enough!)
That's not true. Prices for PC2100, PC2700, and PC3200 (all of which will work in both systems with the exception of PC2100 in the PowerBook) are roughly the same. In fact, in many cases the PC3200 will be cheaper because it's more plentiful.

Anyway, yeah, echoing what others have said here, get the PowerBook. What I've always said is keep low end systems low end. Apple offers plenty of expensive ways to "improve" your iBook or Mac mini, with dubious results. In the end, you end up spending almost as much on a maxed out low end system as you would on a high end system with all those features included standard. So if you want a midrange or high end system, just buy one, and don't bother with trying to modify a low end one to meet your needs.

infoterror
2005-06-20, 23:02
Music work = high demand on your computer. PowerBook, hands down.

I'd have to agree. There are desktop-replacement laptops (Powerbook) and laptop-laptops (iBook), and for serious applications, the former is superior.

Alexia
2005-06-21, 02:13
I have my way of looking at this.

12' iBook - Already at $1,150(RAM, hard drive, Bluetooth) to get the same features(except CPU) of the stock 12" PB at $1,500. So the extra cost of $325 is for 0.3ghz improvement, 33mhz bus improvement, slight hard drive RPM increase, and a different style. Personally, saving the money to get the iBook is a wiser choice. Even with the stock 12" iBook, you can get 1gb RAM and an 80gb 7200rpm drive to upgrade it for a total cost of $1,260 which is still less than the PB.

I know this is about the 14" iBook, but it doesn't make sense to compare two different size models.

Considering you are going to be doing music, I would say go with the Powerbook. I have a love for Creative's USB SoundBlaster Live!, but they don't make OS X drivers for it. :(

allam89
2005-06-21, 05:37
Alexia, You forgot to mention the better video card and DVI. Two of the most important differences. In fact, these two were the deciding factor for me when I got my 12" Powerbook. You can't even connect an ACD to an iBook without buying a very expensive adapter. And even then, I don't think 32MB of video memory would make things like Expose very smooth. And the slight harddrive rpm increase supposedly yields great results from the benchmarks I've seen .I say, get the Powerbook, that way you won't have any regrets. Then only good reason to get the iBook for would be if you can't afford the Powerbook.

Koodari
2005-06-21, 08:45
You can't even connect an ACD to an iBook without buying a very expensive adapter. And even then, I don't think 32MB of video memory would make things like Expose very smooth.It's true Apple displays don't work. However this one works great.

http://130.233.20.28/~ypeussa/setup_640x480.jpg

I see no reason to go with the 14" iBook. 12" iBook or a Powerbook.

Wyatt
2005-06-21, 09:21
I would agree that the 14" iBook is a waste of time unless you want the Super Drive option. Definitely go with the PowerBook. As a music student, you'll want the extra muscle and audio-in. pscates may have been right that you can never have enough speed and power for multimedia production... but you can certainly have too little. :)