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View Full Version : Is upgrading from G4 733mhz to G4 1.7GHZ worth $400


usurp
2005-07-26, 16:19
I have an aging G4 733mhz graphite powermac. I am considering getting the G4 1.7ghz upgrade chip from sonnet tech. My question is will this chip actually give me a true 1.7ghz speed or its not as it sounds. Do i have a better option? should i buy a mac mini instead or an ibook? i do a lot of graphic design stuff and i cant afford 1500 for a lowend powermac. i am just worried this chip sounds like it would give me a speed boost that would feel like a 1.2ghz not a 1.7.

am i making sense?

Luca
2005-07-26, 17:20
I think what you mean is that you're afraid that a single 1.7 GHz G4 isn't going to give you proportionally higher performance to your single 733 MHz G4... as in, it's not going to be 2.3x faster. And you'd be right. Your single 733 has 1 MB of L3 cache, which helps performance significantly. And the single 1.7 GHz Sonnet G4 has no L3 cache, which decreases performance. A single 1.7 GHz G4 without L3 is about equivalent to a 1.3 GHz G4 with L3. It's still almost twice as fast, but it's not a miracle.

That said, I think it's worth it to look at CPU upgrades. They're often very worthwhile. But you need to look at all sorts of different possibilities. Sonnet offers decent low-cost, lower-end CPU upgrades, but their 1.7 GHz G4 isn't a very good deal at $450. In fact, I think you should drop everything and take a look at MacGurus.com's GigaDesigns (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/cpu_upgrades/Giga.php) listing. Giga seems to be specializing in the no-L3 7447 upgrades. This sounds bad at first (you want L3 cache, right? It's faster!), but they actually are selling them for pretty low prices. A single 1.6 GHz is $278, and a single 1.8 GHz is $371 there.

But I think you should be looking at a dual processor upgrade. Since you say you do graphic design stuff, you probably use a lot of applications at once, and some of them are probably multi-threaded. You can really take advantage of a dual processor upgrade. Unfortunately, you just missed out on SmallDog's processor upgrade sale... they had some really big price cuts on a few of them, but it expired just two days ago. Still, MacGurus has pretty good prices (lower than on GigaDesigns' website). A dual 1.6 GHz upgrade there is $432. That's the one I'd recommend if you were looking at the Sonnet 1.7. It's slightly less expensive and has TWO processors! Remember that the processors are not 7455s, so they don't have any L3 cache. But still, a dual 1.6 without L3 should be equivalent to a dual 1.2 GHz with L3. And a dual 1.6 will definitely beat a single 1.7 if neither one has L3.

usurp
2005-07-27, 00:38
thanks Luca thats exactly what I meant. I will check into GigaDesigns but I hope they sell them on Amazon.. I have a $250 gift voucher I want to use there. What about a Mac mini? I know some people say its sluggish but if compared to a G5 I could imagine but compared to my mac upgraded would they be the same speed? I would rather get a mac mini because atleast its something i can hold in my hands and see all the time. paying 400$ for a upgrade chip.. I wouldnt feel as if I bought anything you know..

Luca
2005-07-27, 02:34
Don't get a Mac mini. It's really not the same. The main thing holding you back with the mini will be the slow hard drive. Besides, wouldn't you like having a machine you can upgrade?

Oh, and another thing - a <$450 dual 1.6 GHz upgrade is going to be HUGELY faster than a Mac mini. Think about it... the mini doesn't have any L3 cache either, and it's running at only 1.25 GHz. That makes it equivalent to maybe a 933-1000 MHz G4 with L3, and that's really not very far beyond what you have (733 MHz w/ L3).

As for buying on Amazon... well, it doesn't look like Amazon has any good deals on CPU upgrades. I think you should try to sell your gift voucher (or buy things for people and have them pay you, perhaps at a slightly discounted rate) and buy from some other place. Admit it, you want a dual processor upgrade!

usurp
2005-07-27, 02:57
ok thanks, a friend of my borthers wants an ipod off amazon, i could get it using my gift voucher and he will pay me cash. so the dual 1.6ghz looks cool even at 430$. Only 10 more then single 1.8 sonnet.

1 more question, i have heard the sonnet are very reliable. are the gigadesigns also as reliable and easy to install?

Luca
2005-07-27, 03:25
Yes, in fact a friend of mine has bought... oh, maybe three or four CPU upgrades from GigaDesigns in the past, and not only are they reliable but Giga's support is outstanding. One thing that sets them apart from the other upgrade makers is that they provide both CPU speed and voltage adjustments on their upgrades. So if for some reason you run into problems, their tech support may be able to get the upgrade working problem-free by just changing the voltage. That aside, you'll also be able to tweak the processor speed using the jumpers. There should be instructions included for how to do it. If you're lucky you can squeeze 1.7 GHz or more out of it, though you can't really expect anything more than the rated speed.

Sonnet's upgrades are simple, but not necessarily any more reliable. I don't know anyone who has bought one so I couldn't say. What I do know is that there are no onboard adjustments on the upgrade. You probably won't use them, but they're nice to have.

beardedmacuser
2005-07-27, 04:28
Interesting thread guys. I have a 733 MHz QuickSilver (which has no L3 cache). It has 1.5 gigs of RAM, almost 800 gigs of assorted hard drives (for video work), and a Radeon 9800. While the mini was a tempting option, I would have to loose all of the above upgrades! The mini would be a downgrade in terms of hard drive, GPU and RAM! (Although it would be mighty small, quiet and cute.)

Anyway, I'm seriously considering Sonnet's 1.4 GHz G4 upgrade with the old-school G4 with L3 cache. It seems like good value, and would require no firmware updates or anything like that. Hopefully it would just be a case of swapping it in.

But the other option is to go for Giga's much faster 7447-based upgrades, such as the single 2 GHz or dual 1.6 GHz (which I hadn't considered until reading this thread).

The only reasons I really need more power is for rendering video in Final Cut Pro and encoding in DVD Studio Pro and iDVD. So I was wondering which out of the three upgrades do you think would be the most capable for video and DVD work?


Sonnet's single 1.4 GHz G4 with L3 cache (the cheapest)
Giga's dual 1.6 GHz 7447 G4
Giga's single 2.0 GHz 7447 G4 (a little bit more expensive than the dual 1.6 and over 100 GBP more expensive than Sonnet's 1.4)


Thanks for the excellent forum guys!

Luca
2005-07-27, 05:13
I found a benchmark comparing several processor upgrades in different tasks here (http://www.barefeats.com/g4up.html). They didn't have all the exact models you're looking at, but they had similar ones... they tested a 2.0 GHz 7447, a 1.7 GHz 7447, a 1.5 GHz 7455, a dual 1.8 GHz 7447, and a dual 1.42 GHz PowerMac G4 (which uses a 7455), all against a dual 1.8 GHz G5 running in both single and dual processor mode.

Keep in mind that in those tests, the dual 1.4 tested is the Apple-shipped 1.42 GHz PowerMac, which is a little faster, newer, and more advanced than the Quicksilver used for testing all the upgrade cards. It's not that different, though.

Anyway, if you need the performance for one really processor intensive thing, the single 2.0 GHz upgrade may be the way to go. But since OS X can take advantage of dual processors so well for purposes of multitasking, I think you should look at the dual upgrade instead. The dual 1.8 GHz 7447 they tested sometimes beat the dual 1.42 GHz PowerMac, and sometimes it didn't.

I think that when single-tasking, the dual 1.6 will be outperformed slightly by the single 2.0. But when multi-tasking, it will outperform the single 2.0 by a wide margin. The single 1.4 may even outdo the single 2.0 in a few cases, but generally it'll be slower.

I don't know, I think that if the dual 1.6 is cheaper than the single 2.0, you should go for that. It won't be as fast at single demanding tasks, but how often do you do one of those? 99% of the time I use my computer, I'd rather have two slower processors than one super-fast one.

usurp
2005-07-27, 07:33
wait how does dual chips work exactly? i thought that dual chips only worked for example when using a filter in photoshop but not if you are trying to browse and use email both at the same time..

beardedmacuser
2005-07-27, 07:38
Thanks Luca!

It looks like the dual 1.6 GHz G4 (7447) is the sensible choice. My Macs and Linux boxes at work have always had dual processors, and you can't beat a computer which just churns away at everything you throw at it. A bit like a big fat diesel engine which keeps pulling no matter how steep a hill you drive up!

It's silly, but the main attraction of the 2 GHz upgrade would be to click on "About This Mac" and see "2 GHz PowerPC G4" which would be really cool, in a sad obsessive kind of way...

usurp
2005-07-27, 07:40
ok just read the article at the link u gave me. just confused me more. its better to buy a new powermac g5, except i would rather wait till intel version and i hate the look of the g5 plus only takes 2 ide drives.
PLUS i cant afford the g5. now selling my mac on ebay isnt an option cuz i live in kuwait.

usurp
2005-07-27, 07:54
ok sorry to keep coming back on this but its just total confusion for me. Would a 12inch powerbook be a lot faster then my powermac?

beardedmacuser
2005-07-27, 12:26
ok sorry to keep coming back on this but its just total confusion for me. Would a 12inch powerbook be a lot faster then my powermac?

I would be surprised if the PowerBook felt very much faster than your PowerMac.

But as with all things, it depends on what you're going to be using the computer for. And you'll lose everything that you've invested in terms of RAM and hard drives for your PowerMac. I would be surprised if the 12 inch PowerBook is significantly faster than your PowerMac bearing in mind the lack of L3 cache and the slower smaller hard drive. To bring a 12 inch PowerBook up to the same levels of RAM and hard drive storage (you'd have to get an external hard drive which would obviously make the PowerBook rather less portable and add further to the expense) as your PowerMac would cost a significant amount of money.

In my case I have already invested heavily in my G4 PowerMac in terms of hard drives, RAM and graphics card. The cost of replacing my Mac with a new Mac would be extremely prohibitive as I would have to bring the new Mac up to the same levels of storage. In my case a processor upgrade is the most cost-effective means of increasing performance. CPU performance is the only aspect of my systems performance that I feel is below my needs.

However, if you need increased performance but don't need much more than the default levels of RAM and hard drive storage then a new Mac may be more appropriate.

Looking at the description of your PowerMac, you say it has over 200 gigs of hard drive storage? Therefore there's no way to replicate that amount of storage on an iBook, PowerBook or mini (unless you buy an external Firewire hard drive). The only new Macs that would meet your needs storage-wise would be the iMac and PowerMac.

Luca
2005-07-27, 12:33
A brand new, 1.5 GHz 12" PowerBook would probably be a bit faster than your PowerMac, but it would also cost a ton more than a dual 1.6 GHz upgrade, and the upgrade would severely outperform the PowerBook. beardedmacuser is right: having dual processors is like having a machine that just doesn't quit. Even if you're using strictly single-threaded applications, all you have to do is run two of them at once to see a performance benefit.

For example, I remember a long time ago I had a dual 500 MHz G4. I was decompressing a very large file (several hundred MB), and the decompression application was single-threaded. That is, it was only using one processor at 100% and ignoring the other, according to my CPU monitor. I ran several other applications during the decompression and nothing slowed down at all, because OS X was able to redistribute the processor time. The decompression used one processor, and all the other stuff was loaded onto the other one. It's kind of like having two computers. You'll really enjoy it, I'm sure.

beardedmacuser
2005-07-27, 12:33
ok sorry to keep coming back on this but its just total confusion for me. Would a 12inch powerbook be a lot faster then my powermac?

Oh, and your PowerMac upgraded to a dual-1.6 or single-2.0 GHz G4 would be a whole lot faster than a 12 inch PowerBook... but again it depends what your needs are. It won't email any faster, and it won't play music any faster, but if you're a power user you'll notice a difference.

kretara
2005-07-27, 12:54
I have a 12" 1.33 PB with 768mb RAM and 5400 RPM HD and while its a nice machine I don't remember it being alot faster than my old QS 733 and my MDD 867 just blew both of them out of the water. Now, my G5 DP 2.0 really kicks some ass, but thats another story.

usurp
2005-07-27, 15:01
ok thanks a lot guys, you have helped me make up my mind. most probably going for the dual 1.6 or maybe dual 1.8 if i can afford it.

my biggest concern was i was worried i would pay all this money for the upgrade and then not feel it. but now i know it should make a difference. goodbye sluggish days.. i hope.

beardedmacuser
2005-07-29, 11:31
Today I noticed PowerLogix have released a new version of their CPU Director software for controlling their CPU upgrades. I've now been running it on my G3 PowerMac (upgraded to 1 GHz 750GX with a PowerLogix ZIF) all afternoon and it's sweet! Most of the time the G3 runs at 500 MHz and only steps up to 1 GHz when required. I've been considering improving the cooling on the original heatsink that the upgrade reuses by adding a little fan or by totally replacing the heatsink somehow.

The PowerLogix press release; (http://www.powerlogix.com/press/releases/2005/050727.html)

Hopefully this "Dynamic Frequency Switching" which I now have access to from the Energy Saver control panel, just as I've seen on G5 iMacs, will keep my G3 upgrade running a little bit cooler?

Anyway, I see this also works with their 7447-based G4 upgrades. Instead of the dual-1.6 GHz Giga upgrade I was considering earlier for my old 733 MHz Quicksilver, it's now very tempting to go for a PowerLogix G4 upgrade so I can take advantage of their power management and embedded thermal sensor. Hopefully this would reduce the heat produced by the upgrade and reduce the load on the power supply?

Looking at prices it looks like it's a choice between the dual-1.2 and the single-1.8 GHz 7447 upgrades. Hmmm... now that's a significant enough difference in clock speed to make the dual vs single comparison more interesting!

Anyone got any suggestions?

kretara
2005-07-29, 11:35
I've had good luck with Powerlogix in the past, BUT I have heard enough bad stories about them over the past 2 years that I would be very wary about doing business with them.

I have never heard anything bad about Giga. IMHO, I would stick with the Giga upgrade.

beardedmacuser
2005-07-30, 11:31
I've had good luck with Powerlogix in the past, BUT I have heard enough bad stories about them over the past 2 years that I would be very wary about doing business with them.

I have never heard anything bad about Giga. IMHO, I would stick with the Giga upgrade.

Yep, I looked through sites such as xlr8yourmac before buying my 1 GHz G3 upgrade. There were loads of reports of problems, which made me a bit hesitant. However the upgrade options are more limited for the ZIF PowerMacs (it's a choice between a 500 MHz G4 and 1 GHz G3 if you want to run the bus at its full 100 MHz). But in the end I bought the PowerLogix G3 upgrade from OWC in the US and it installed with no problems at all and no problems since then.

I guess reports on the web are likely to be negative as you hardly feel motivated to write a report that you had no problems with a product!

It looks like I would have to buy the G4 PowerLogix upgrade from the US again (I live in the UK) which could potentially be a real hassle if I ever need to return it because of problems. At least with the Giga upgrades I can buy them from a supplier who is only a short drive to the north of London.

Although the PowerLogix G4 upgrades do look tempting, I think the ability to buy a Giga upgrade directly from a shop in the UK may push me that way...

usurp
2005-08-04, 02:15
Just an update, I just ordered the GigaDesigns Dual Processor 1.6Ghz upgrade. Now the waiting period begins..

usurp
2005-08-13, 13:46
Ok got my dual 1.6 today, installed it and everything is cool. only minor issue i had was i had to install OS 9 on my mac so i could upgrade my motherboard firmware, other then that the installation was a lot easier then i expected.

i ran a CPU test, my old 733mhz chip scored a 84, my new dual 1.6 scored a 198. So far everything seems a lot more responsive and faster. I am happy :)

thanks Luca for the heads up on GigaDesigns.

http://photos21.flickr.com/33694655_468f2d3386.jpg?v=0