View Full Version : Next PowerBook to be superskinny?
hobbit.2
2004-07-07, 14:02
Now where did that (http://www.engadget.com/entry/8265152283883685/) come from?
We still don’t have any idea when Apple is going to come out with those new G5 PowerBooks everyone is salivating over (it seems like they’ve been having a lot of trouble getting those power-hungry, overheating G5 chips into a laptop), but we’re hearing that whenever the next version does come out it’ll be “considerably thinner” than the current ones. Probably won’t be as thin as Sony’s ultraslim Vaio X505 (there’d be no place to put the optical drives, for example), but a boy can dream, can’t he?
Anyone with more news than that?
windowsblowsass
2004-07-07, 14:07
is that just idle speculation or is he indicating he has info?
if this is true apple would most likely be making a new class of pb, because there probably won't be any updates until the g5s come out, and theres no way a 970fx will be able to fit into something smaller than the powerbook currently is. so theese sub portables would either have to have a g4 or one of those mythical freescale e600/700 chips.
There are a lot of non-G5 options for PowerBooks to use that will make them both faster AND thinner/lighter/cooler.
1) Motorola 7448 - Successor to the current 7447, and it's supposed to go to 1.8 GHz or 2.0 GHz.
2) IBM 750VX - Super-awesome version of the G3. 4-stage pipeline, the shortest that is even possible. G3s are currently at 1.1 GHz for the 750GX, but IBM expects their various new versions to go to 2 GHz. Also, the 750VX will support lots of L2 and L3 cache, and up to a 400 MHz DDR frontside bus. IBM could add an AltiVec unit to these, most likely, allowing them to be labeled as G4s. However, the AltiVec would be the same as in the G5s, so it wouldn't be awesome. It would still provide some optimization, but IBM can only use the AltiVec that was put into the 7400, not the faster 7450 implementation.
3) New Freescale processor? I don't know anything about these other than the name. I doubt they'll be ready in time but who knows?
Also, how will Apple name these? Obviously we can talk about the 7448 or the 750VX all we want, but to Apple, it's G3, G4 and G5. They won't give the "G6" name to a processor that is supposed to be lower end than the G5. But a modified 750VX wouldn't really be a G4 either. Or maybe it would be. I guess only time will tell. The good thing is that Apple has options, and I think that Jobs himself once said something about how he likes to have lots of options.
Now where did that (http://www.engadget.com/entry/8265152283883685/) come from?
"That" came from O'Grady's PowerPage (http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=12184) a week ago.
In The Loop: PowerBooks to Get Thinner
01 July 2004 07:30 EST
Jason D. O'Grady
As you already know Apple has been hard at work developing large screens. Apple has spend a ton investing in this technology so they plan to continue to capitalize on it.
Also what most do not know, is that Apple has also invested in thin slim hard drives and DVD/CD-R drive technology. According to well-placed PowerPage sources the next PowerBooks will be considerably thinner. Currently the G5 chip production is the limiting factor in portable production. Apple cannot get enough low power chips to use in the portable form factor. Current yields only provide Apple with chips that burn 30 watts which is too much power consumption for laptops with batteries, and they are running far too hot.
Think Thin.
Unfortunately, the same information on O'Grady's doesn't make it any more reliable. It only makes sense that Apple would work towards thinner PowerBooks. That's they way they've been going for ages.
I love my new 12-inch PowerBook. But in terms of thickness and relative to the 15- and 17-inch PBs, it's a bit of a fatso. I can easily picture a future 12-inch PowerBook being less than 1" thick. I'm sure Apple will do it as soon as it can.
Escher
hobbit.2
2004-07-07, 14:39
If I remember correctly IBM once had a 'proposed chip design' of a 750VX with AltiVec on their website. Nothing ever came of it, at which point it was said that apparently this proposal did not find any potential buyer. Reportedly it is custom for chip designers to propose specifications of potential new chip designs and see if there are any interested parties. If not, it remains just that, a proposal.
From this I'd say the 750VX is out.
As for name, a Freescale e600/700 or 7448 could simply be dubbled 'G5 mobile', no? ;)
hobbit.2
2004-07-07, 14:50
In regards to the O'Grady article (thanks Escher, good find!):
Was Apple really 'hard at work developing large screens'? What was Apple's input on the 30" monitor? Wouldn't they just buy these from an LCD panel manufacturer?
Looking at the iPod, I clearly see that Apple is not really involved in hardware component development, but rather buys off the shelf components to build their products.
From that I can't believe Apple is actively developing HDs or DVD drives.
Especially since Apple is not known for exceeding in miniaturisation (that would be Sony e.g.).
I doubt the article a bit. :\
I can't wait for the thin models... The wind will blow and knock my Powerbook off my desk...
Remember all those super skinny calculators that had tiny little buttons... and were so difficult to use? Thin isn't everything...
futuretheory
2004-07-07, 15:06
Thinner is cool, maybe the selling point for an iBook of the future. But, I do real work with mine. I'd much rather haul around something bigger and heavier if it was faster, tougher, and lasted longer. I already feel like I need to handle my current Powerbook like fine crystal...I'd love to see a tough Apple laptop for those us constantly traveling, and working in "hostile" environments.
Thinner is cool, maybe the selling point for an iBook of the future. But, I do real work with mine. I'd much rather haul around something bigger and heavier if it was faster, tougher, and lasted longer. I already feel like I need to handle my current Powerbook like fine crystal...I'd love to see a tough Apple laptop for those us constantly traveling, and working in "hostile" environments.
"PowerBook Extreme"
This would sell very well.
windowsblowsass
2004-07-07, 15:29
"PowerBook Extreme"
This would sell very well.
i dont know when extreme applys to jello and corn chips i think the trend is coming to an end :lol:
In regards to the O'Grady article (thanks Escher, good find!):
Was Apple really 'hard at work developing large screens'? What was Apple's input on the 30" monitor? Wouldn't they just buy these from an LCD panel manufacturer?
From what I recall, Apple invested $50-100 million in Samsung for the purpose of increasing output of a new LCD plant. I believe the widescreen PowerBook and the widescreen Cinema Displays were a result of that investment/collaboration. Somebody correct me if I got the partner (Samsung) or anything else wrong.
I also understand that Apple was talking to Hitachi (formerly IBM) when their 4GB Microdrive (used in the iPod) was still under development. Apple was the first to secure a supply of the parts, before other manufacturers.
Finally, Apple worked closely with IBM to develope the G5. So there is plenty of precedent for Apple working directly with manufacturers to develop products/components that meet their needs.
Escher
hobbit.2
2004-07-07, 16:37
On second thought, there aren't for example that many SATA 2.5" notebook drives available yet. This would be an opportunity for Apple to work together with a manufacturer to get new SATA drives on the market (presumably a lot thinner), while giving that manufacturer single supplier status in return.
Would it make sense to have SATA DVD drives? Maybe blueray ones?
At least Apple did have issues securing slot loading DVD drives. From that point of view it would make sense to work closer with a supplier to ensure Apple gets enough on time.
Quagmire
2004-07-07, 17:49
Has everyone already forgotten about the Powertune mobile G5? It could be in the new imac. Freescale won't be in apple in a while if at all. Even though it is a new company it still has roots and similar developement as Moto. We came from ai.com and we still have our similarities. About Powerbooks getting thinner, I doubt the 12" powerbook getting tinner because of the small size. But, the 15" and 17" powerbook might get a bit smaller. Talking to escher, the 12" powerbook is so thick because it has very little room for stuff. On the other hand the 15" and 17" has more room due to the screen size so it is able to get thinner.
hobbit.2
2004-07-07, 18:04
Powertune will help preserve battery power on average but it won't help with heat and thinner designs. While Powertune can reduce heat if the CPU is not that busy, any PowerBook must still be built for 'worst case scenarios' e.g. 24 hour game play or 24 hour rendering sessions, when Powertune has no chance to tune anything but run full speed all the time.
You wouldn't want to design a super thin PowerBook because you can for average conditions thanks to Powertune - only to have it melt the moment the CPU runs at full speed for 24 hours.
Quagmire
2004-07-07, 18:33
Powertune will help preserve battery power on average but it won't help with heat and thinner designs. While Powertune can reduce heat if the CPU is not that busy, any PowerBook must still be built for 'worst case scenarios' e.g. 24 hour game play or 24 hour rendering sessions, when Powertune has no chance to tune anything but run full speed all the time.
You wouldn't want to design a super thin PowerBook because you can for average conditions thanks to Powertune - only to have it melt the moment the CPU runs at full speed for 24 hours.
I know it won't help getting the pbooks thinner. I saw everyone talking about the freescale chips where I heard that the e600 is not going to be available to apple and the IBM version of the G3 and G4. So I though everyone forgotten the Powertune. I think for a battery apple is going to use for the G5 Powerbook is fuel cell. Maybe even nuclear. :lol:
oldmacfan
2004-07-07, 18:37
I would hope that Apple, if they are working on SATA hard drives for laptops, will skip to SATA II with NCQ.
stangmatt66
2004-07-08, 19:30
A friend of mine who works closely with Apple and often tests hardware for them has been shown a pre-production version of the PB G5 encased in carbon fiber with a band of titanium wrapping the perimeter of the book, much like the grey stripe on the new iBook G4's when closed. He gave me no performance specs or features of the new PBs, but be assured Apple already has them floating around.
hobbit.2
2004-07-08, 20:58
A friend of mine who works closely with Apple and often tests hardware for them has been shown a pre-production version of the PB G5 encased in carbon fiber with a band of titanium wrapping the perimeter of the book, much like the grey stripe on the new iBook G4's when closed. He gave me no performance specs or features of the new PBs, but be assured Apple already has them floating around.
That's likely an old design or not the final design, if anything.
I can't imagine Apple going back to using Titanium. Now that everything is aluminum, including their Apple Store facades...
But perhaps it was carbon fiber and aluminum?!?
On second thought, there aren't for example that many SATA 2.5" notebook drives available yet. This would be an opportunity for Apple to work together with a manufacturer to get new SATA drives on the market (presumably a lot thinner), while giving that manufacturer single supplier status in return.
Would it make sense to have SATA DVD drives? Maybe blueray ones?
At least Apple did have issues securing slot loading DVD drives. From that point of view it would make sense to work closer with a supplier to ensure Apple gets enough on time.
fujitsu has notebook sata. don't think there are any announcced customers, but i can't wait for dual layer notebook dvd writers.
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20040105S0036
drewprops
2004-07-09, 20:57
Who are you children and why haven't you been properly spanked for this silly thread?
stangmatt66
2004-07-12, 13:01
That's likely an old design or not the final design, if anything.
I can't imagine Apple going back to using Titanium. Now that everything is aluminum, including their Apple Store facades...
But perhaps it was carbon fiber and aluminum?!?
Hobbit, I checked on this design again and was confirmed to me that it IS aluminum, not titanium, that wraps around the notebook. Also, the switch from AL to CF was explained to me that CF was the only material Apple found strong enough to withstand all the vents cut into it to cool the G5.
Also, I was told about an awesome little 10" Apple prototype notebook that, when opened, unfolds into a 15" screen, using 3 small LCD panels. Neato huh?
hobbit.2
2004-07-12, 19:06
Also, I was told about an awesome little 10" Apple prototype notebook that, when opened, unfolds into a 15" screen, using 3 small LCD panels. Neato huh?
:wow: Where do I sign up?
Jobs and Apple have said many times that they think 100 pixel per inch (http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html) is the ideal monitor resolution density. Hence I cannot see them offering a 10" notebook with a 120+ ppi screen (and anything smaller would be too low a resolution for OS X).
Only way out: foldable LCDs. The Holy Grail of LCDs. Attempted many times, with a few promising results (http://www.philips.com/InformationCenter/Global/FArticleDetail.asp?lArticleId=721&lNodeId). If anyone can pull it off, Apple would be one of them.
Let's hope it happens.
Dave Hagan
2004-07-13, 06:06
Wait a minute...People have seen prototypes of an Apple PowerBook G5, but no one has any info on the new iMac, which has likely been finished and marketing materials printed, etc? :err:
stangmatt66
2004-07-13, 10:44
Wait a minute...People have seen prototypes of an Apple PowerBook G5, but no one has any info on the new iMac, which has likely been finished and marketing materials printed, etc? :err:
Dave, I would imagine that security of prototypes becomes stronger as those prototypes reach their final production form. With the iMac's release coming soon, I'm sure all prototypes are under lock and key. The PB G5, however, is still 6-12 months away from final production form, hence the open testing of prototypes.
holy crap... I didnt even KNOW O'Grady was still around! It's been at least 3 to 4 years since I went to that site.
What the heck happened to that place? It actually was good until, what, '99... then all of a sudden it just sucked. A lot.
Anyway... I'm pretty sure that when you spend the crazy amounts of money like Apple does into R&D, you come up with a LOT of protypes, including 8inch, 10inch, 20 inch laptops, PDAs, modular iMacs, Ninja Death Squads, color screen iPods, VideoPods... and... did I say Ninja Death Squads out loud again? Crap
teknomadik
2004-07-25, 20:08
Thinner is cool, maybe the selling point for an iBook of the future. But, I do real work with mine. I'd much rather haul around something bigger and heavier if it was faster, tougher, and lasted longer. I already feel like I need to handle my current Powerbook like fine crystal...I'd love to see a tough Apple laptop for those us constantly traveling, and working in "hostile" environments.
The gold standard in PB durability is still the Pismo. It would make sense to have a rugged version of a PB G5 for people doing, say, geological surveys in hot & dusty or frigid climes.
It would make sense to have a rugged version of a PB G5 for people doing, say, geological surveys in hot & dusty or frigid climes.
Meh.. People who need a bomb-proof laptop can just get a Panasonic ToughBook. ;)
Seriously, I wish that iSkin (http://www.iskin.com/) would make a molded rubber case for PowerBooks like the ones it makes for iPods. That would spare Apple the effort of developing yet another line of PowerBooks. Yes it would look cool and afford integrated protection to any PowerBook as an add-on.
Escher
the problem with super skinny bowerbooks is that they need to keep them from twisting. My powerbook (TI 550) over time developed cracks in the mother board because of the stress of it constantly got (just opening the screen twists it). This makes it do funny things when not sitting on a flat surface. I can't really use it as a portable anymore.
Just can't imagine them making it thinner ...
Hummm...I think that whatever Apple does, they stay on top of the heat issue. Honestly, I don't think the G5s currently used in the desktop will ever be in a laptop, they just seem to give off too much heat. More than likely, Apple is working with IBM to get a less power-hungry version of the G5 working. Honestly, I wouldn't want a G5 in a laptop if it meant getting overly hot (no one likes burnt laps) or having a very noisy fan.
Dave Hagan
2004-07-31, 13:36
The only PowerBook that I think that Apple can make thinner would be the 12-inch PowerBook. They should also improve the display and make it widescreen.
The 15 PowerBook should get the 15.4-inch display. This may also make it a wee-bit thinner.
How much thinner can you go really? There's too thick and then there's too thin. I hope Apple doesn't get outrageously thin so that it feels less durable and more frail.
Seriously, I wish that iSkin (http://www.iskin.com/) would make a molded rubber case for PowerBooks like the ones it makes for iPods. That would spare Apple the effort of developing yet another line of PowerBooks. Yes it would look cool and afford integrated protection to any PowerBook as an add-on.
Escher
and it would just kill the heat transfer capabilities of the PB's exterior
Not Gonna Happen, sorry.
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