View Full Version : 12" iBook vs 12" Powerbook
I'm currently in the market for a laptop for school and I'm trying to decide between the 12" iBook and the 12" Powerbook. I would use it mainly for programming and some photo editing and design with Photoshop and InDesign, and would like to attach my external (17") display to use for greater screen real estate in my dorm room. Do I need to go with a Powerbook or will an iBook suffice so that I can save some money?
if you want to attach it to an external monitor for greater screen estate you dont have an option except for the powerbook.
The ibook only allows you to mirror the display onto an external screen and ther resolution stays at a low 1024x768 pixels.
There is a span hack for the iBook, but some have experienced problems with it and using the hack apparently will void the warranty: http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=7600&highlight=iBook+span
And even if you tried the span hack and it did not create any problems you may quickly run out of VRAM on the iBook, given you will be doing photo editing and design.
So I'd also say your only option is a powerbook.
:no:
I haven't heard of anyone having problems with the spanning hack, unless they were trying to run it on an unsupported machine (i.e. Rage 128-based iBook). Maybe it's happened, but it's rare. Also, while it may technically void the warranty, all you have to do is disable it before sending it in for warranty repairs and you're golden. Or just reset your nvram in Open Firmware. Either way it's easy to disable and Apple won't be able to know the difference.
You won't run out of VRAM on the iBook. Each display will only have 16 MB of VRAM, true, but that's still enough. Photo editing doesn't have any VRAM requirements, either. VRAM only really factors in for 3D work, and almost nothing you do on your computer is 3D work. The only exceptions I know of are Quartz Extreme, Core Image, Motion, 3D rendering apps, and games.
Ok, I defer to Luca on the span hack.
But Luca, when I edit photos, for instance, I usually have 6 or 7 open at once and each is initially about 6 MB and so isn't it faster that I have sufficient VRAM available? This is one area where I seem to miss a bit the old 256MB VRAM on my desktop as opposed to the 64MB VRAM in my PB, as I swear the more photos I open the more sluggish is my editing. Maybe I should tweak my Photoshop preferences or something . . .
One thing I did not mention is that while the 12" PB has a mini-DVI output it is my understanding the iBook's video output is VGA. My experience with VGA output to my DVI LCD, which also has a VGA input, is that the VGA is pretty fuzzy comparative to DVI, and if photo editing is a priority then you may not want to rely on the spanning hack referenced in the applenova thread I copied above- that is IF your external 17" is DVI and has a fuzzy VGA conversion. Even text work can be bothersome to some with VGA to DVI.
And if I am wrong about the VGA to DVI issue then someone will surely correct me. I may well be as there are some filters on some graphics chips which seem to adversely affect VGA images, and so my experience here may not be representative of the norm.
I doubt you'll have a problem running your monitor of the iBook, I'm hooking mine up to a Dell 20" no prob. Personally I don't notice any quality issues with the VGA connection.
Arguments for buying the PB would be faster HD, slightly faster processor, better keyboard. EDIT: the PB is also a bit smaller and lighter
For the iBook first of all price and (at least for the moment) more build in RAM
SIDE NOTE: My initial plan, was to get the iBook and later upgrade to a PB (my previous PB got stolen, so I had to buy ASAP), but I become quite happy with my iBook, so now I'm not sure what to buy next...
Regarding your first point - VRAM in photo editing. It doesn't matter. VRAM is only used for buffering the pixels on the screen (1024x768 @ 24-bit color only takes up 4.5 MB if you're double-buffering the entire screen) and for storing textures and other 3D-related things. Photoshop does not use the 3D card (or the VRAM) at all. No more than Mail or iChat or Calculator. If you're experiencing slowdowns with a lot of images open, it's because you're low on system RAM, not VRAM.
As for your second point, you're absolutely right. The iBook has VGA while the PowerBook has DVI. If that's important to you, it's something you should consider. VGA LCDs do look noticeably fuzzier to me, but I don't think it would be worth several hundred dollars to buy a higher-end computer that has DVI just to get a tiny bit of extra sharpness from my LCD. It's a contributing factor but I don't think it's a deciding factor.
switchr92
2005-08-11, 19:02
Dude, I plan on getting a new iBook within the week, and I love the iBooks design, but I think you have to go powerbook. If you do photo editing, you will appreciate the faster hard drive and processor. The larger video card should give photo editing slightly faster rendering, but hard drive will be the most noticeable boost in preformance. The mini-DVI will be sharper than the mini-VGA standard with the iBooks, and even if the hack worked seemlessly (which I've heard it doesn't), it doesn't let you put the notebook to sleep and dedicate all VRAM to the external monitor, which is comparing 16MB VRAM (iBook) to 64MB VRAM (Powerbook). Besides, theres always something for it to happen natively. Also, if your getting it for all 4 years of college, it will also be less obsolete when you finally graduate.
Good luck. Switchr
coconut wireless
2005-08-17, 02:26
Dude, I plan on getting a new iBook within the week, and I love the iBooks design, but I think you have to go powerbook. If you do photo editing, you will appreciate the faster hard drive and processor. The larger video card should give photo editing slightly faster rendering, but hard drive will be the most noticeable boost in preformance. The mini-DVI will be sharper than the mini-VGA standard with the iBooks, and even if the hack worked seemlessly (which I've heard it doesn't), it doesn't let you put the notebook to sleep and dedicate all VRAM to the external monitor, which is comparing 16MB VRAM (iBook) to 64MB VRAM (Powerbook). Besides, theres always something for it to happen natively. Also, if your getting it for all 4 years of college, it will also be less obsolete when you finally graduate.
Good luck. Switchr
Looking at buying a 14" iBook for my husband who is just learning how to use a computer. I too am a switcher of about 2+ years now and am presently on a G-4 iMac which I love. Too bad they discontinued the little pod - the neck on this one moves around much better than the new ones and that really "works" for me.
Back to my husband, he will be using the iBook primarily to edit photos in I-photo and burn them in IDVD. We like to burn or travel photos to a DVD and take them to the mainland to show them on TV and bore our friends to death :D
We won't be hooking up a monitor but using the built in screen on the lap top. We live in a very small condo and are cramped for space. The plus side is it has a panoramic view of the ocean. Well all in life is a trade off :)
I was all set to buy the iBook before I saw this posting now I'm not sure???
Also if anyone out there knows of a foldable lap top stand please give me a website or some info.
Mahalo (thanks)
the coconut wireless
Franz Josef
2005-08-17, 08:55
Well all in life is a trade off :) Surely not true :) .
A 14" iBook sounds exactly right for what you want to do (although you may also consider a 12" iBook). If you wanted to go for say a 12" PowerBook, they are great laptops (and I would not trade mine for any other Mac bar none) but they are more expensive and many people feel the iBook gives better value for money, particularly after the recent update. It is true to say that the PB has a faster HD than the iBook - 5,400 v 4,200 rpm. In everyday use, you will not notice a huge difference however because the slower HD will mostly be only noticeable when launching applications. Having lots of RAM will make much more difference than having a faster HD.
The iBook will have NO issues with photo editing - it is ideal for this. It has 32MB video RAM and a good graphics processor GPU. In reality however, there are few applications which use VRAM - see Luca's post above. VRAM / GPU will be relevant for high end 3D work and graphic intensive games (such as say Halo) and not for managing and editing photos.
I suggest you look at the 12" iBook too. Although both the 12" and 14" have great screens, the 14" screen is only bigger - it does not have a greater screen resolution (ie it does not hold more data). The 12" has the benefit of being cheaper and more portable and if you travel alot this will be attractive.
The 12" has a combi drive which means it plays and burns CDs but only plays DVDs. If you are happy to be burning only about 700MB (CD) rather than 4.7 GB (DVD) then the combi drive will serve you well. The 12" has a slighty slower CPU but will be irrelevant to you - Macs are much more sensitive to the amount of RAM than small increments in CPU speed.
Other issues:
(1) Make sure you get lots of RAM - 768MB or 1GB would be recommended (and if you were saving cash by going for the 12", I would actually max out the RAM at 1.5GB).
(2) Avoid a 40GB harddrive and go for 60GB or 80GB - this is well worth the investment as HD's fill up very quickly.
Hope this helps. :)
FJ
Adding to FJ's answer, you'd want to get the hard-disk from Apple, and the RAM from a third party vendor, as you'll see discussed in many threads here, Apple is simply to expensive, and RAM is very simple to install yourself.
BarracksSi
2005-08-17, 20:35
I'm a linkin' fool today...
http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/05/08/16/index.html
coconut wireless
2005-08-17, 22:54
First of all Mahalo Nui Loa FJ your post to my questions "iBook or Powerbook" pretty much confirmed what I had thought. I had planned on upgrading the memory to a gig as that's what I did on my iMac but will take your suggestion and upgrade the HD to 80 gig. Since my husband is going to be using the laptop as his primary computer and will be doing photo editing I'm thinking he will appreciate the larger screen. We travel out of the country once or twice a year but I doubt if we will be taking the laptop with us much. We like to carryon luggage when we travel internationally. Taking the laptop would just be one more thing to worry about when we go off for the day and have to leave it in our room.
Thanks BarracksSi the link you posted is one I'll bookmark ;)
Now finding the best price - Apple Store is very competitive and they have free shipping (which is a plus when living 2,500 miles from mainland USA in the middle of the Pacific) but they charge tax which makes it about the same if ordering from MacZone on the West Coast who charges shipping but no tax making them about the same price. Forget the other ones from back East or midwest as the shipping is even more. But I'm open for any suggestions from the wisdom of the forum? :lol:
Aloha
coconut wireless
Price will almost always be the same everywhere, plus or minus a bit because of tax and shipping. However, occasionally Amazon has discounts, I believe, so you should check them.
coconut wireless
2005-08-18, 16:45
Price will almost always be the same everywhere, plus or minus a bit because of tax and shipping. However, occasionally Amazon has discounts, I believe, so you should check them.
Kyros, I'm afraid you're right. I'll keep checking with pricegrabber and some of those web sights and hope that I see a price drop in the near future :| :\
coconut wireless
NosferaDrew
2005-08-18, 19:41
I've bought all of my Macs through PowerMax (www.powermax.com).
They're Apple Authorized Resellers, have impeccable customer service, fast shipping and you pay no sales tax - that can save you a chunk of change.
Small Dog (www.smalldog.com) is another very good reseller that does not charge sales tax.
One more good site to check when in the market for new Mac gear is MacPrices.com (www.macprices.com). MacPrices tracks availability as well as all the bundles that are offered.
GrimStranger
2005-08-27, 01:50
My itchy finger is about to pull the trigger and get me either a 12" iBook or PowerBook G4. And before it does, I've got a question to ask.
How easy is it to upgrade system memory yourself on these two models?
When I look at NewEgg's price for 1G DDR333 SO-DIMM, I just can't justify the extra money if I go the Apple Store route. Of course, this is on the premise that DIY is feasible.
DMBand0026
2005-08-27, 02:01
It's extremely easy to do on both. Instructions are included with the computer.
Franz Josef
2005-08-27, 05:09
I would just echo what DMB said, it is really very easy to add RAM and something every PoweBook / iBook owner can do. :)
I ended up getting a 12" iBook with 1GB RAM and 80GB hard-drive, and I'm loving it!
BarracksSi
2005-09-23, 21:30
Cool -- did you apply the screen spanning hack, too?
coconut wireless
2005-09-24, 00:25
Cool -- did you apply the screen spanning hack, too?
please clue this "clueless one in" what the heck is a screen spanning hack and what is it for :confused:
http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html
The iBook's built in graphics controller has supported the dual-monitor extended desktop mode since the spring of 2002. However, Apple has always disabled this feature in the firmware, crippling the iBook by only allowing you to mirror the iBook's screen onto an external screen. In other words, the external screen is limited to 1024x768, and it can only display the same thing that is on the built in one.
By downloading and installing the patch, you will enable screen spanning on the iBook. That means you can connect a VGA monitor externally and run it at a high resolution, and it will extend the amount of screen area you get. So instead of mirroring the contents, you'll have an extra 1024x768 or 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 space to work with.
The patch is harmless and can be easily removed. Technically it is against Apple's warranty policy, but there's really nothing they can do if you remove the hack before sending it in for a repair (which may not be possible if it's broken really badly, but they probably still won't catch you).
NosferaDrew
2005-09-24, 01:46
I have both.
iBook < PB.
But both are amazing machines simply because OS X is so great.
You can't go wrong.
iBook > Powerbook.
In January, just in time for the new iBook model, I moved from the (then newest model) 15" Powerbook to a 12" iBook. I used the difference and a little extra to get a HD widescreen to hook the iBook to. I'm far, far happier than I was with the Powerbook. The iBook does everything I ask just as well, and I have only a half of the money tied in the computer that I had in the PB. It's my opinion that features and prices of 14" iBook and 12" PB make both computers rather marginal choices. Most people would be better off with either 12" iBook (best value by far, same excellent portability as 12" PB) or 15" PB (full features and the screen is a lot better).
The battery life is also a great thing. I get around 5 hours on the iBook while my friends get a max of 3 on their 15" PB. That means I can go almost all day without needing to come back to my dorm to charge. Plus, I paid half the price :)
Franz Josef
2005-09-24, 12:59
iBook > PowerbookValue is a very subjective measure and the PB is still a better laptop on any objective criteria - if you need real portability the 12" PB takes up noticeably less space (though is a similar weight) than its 12" iBook cousin and comes with faster HD, twice the graphics RAM and a DVD burning superdrive. It's testimony to how well designed the PB is that it can hold its own despite modest bumps and it bodes well for superfast superlight Intel PowerBooks with very long battery life.
I would say that from a value standpoint, the 12" iBook smashes the 12" PowerBook to little bitty pieces, but the 15" and 17" PowerBooks are just as good for the money as the 12" iBook. They are a LOT better and a LOT more expensive. The 12" PowerBook is a little bit better and a lot more expensive. By all means consider one if the extra features compared to the iBook are worth it for you, but from an absolute value standpoint I don't think you get as much for your money with the 12" PowerBook as you do with the 12" iBook.
FallenFromTheTree
2005-09-26, 18:35
I would definitely buy your iBook or PowerBook direct through Apple over a secondary retailer.
If anything major goes wrong under warranty, most times
Apple will replace your machine, where other retailers won't.
The 14" iBook seems like the best way to go for a reasonable price, but I still prefer the 12" PowerBooks' additional features in the long run.
You'll probably update your iMac eventually within the next 2 years, so the limitations of the iBook are not so critical.
Value is a very subjective measure and the PB is still a better laptop on any objective criteria - if you need real portability the 12" PB takes up noticeably less space (though is a similar weight) than its 12" iBook cousin and comes with faster HD, twice the graphics RAM and a DVD burning superdrive. It's testimony to how well designed the PB is that it can hold its own despite modest bumps and it bodes well for superfast superlight Intel PowerBooks with very long battery life.Sure, if money is no object, the 12" PB is a better computer.
Except it has, objectively, a worse GPU.
Franz Josef
2005-09-28, 04:40
Except it has, objectively, a worse GPU.OK but let's avoid the sophistry, the iBook's better GPU performs less well because for the moment Apple choose to give it half the VRAM. If it had 64MB VRAM, that would be a different story.
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