iBook 12" or HP zv6000

[anthonyb]

I'm a poor college student that is in need of a notebook for multiple reasons. My top 3 reasons would be Internet, MS Office, and digital media.

Being a PC user I have never used an Apple in my life, except to play the Oregon Trail in my 2nd grade. I am always open to new ideas and the thought of trying out an Apple is appealing to me.

I am barely in the market for a 12" iBook. For this I get 1.33Ghz, 512 RAM, and a small screen.

The other notebook I am considering is an HP zv6000 (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks/hp_pavilion&series_name=zv6000_series&catLevel=2)
.

If you check it out I get far more power (and a 15" XVGA screen) for less than an iBook.

I'm going to be purchasing either one sometime this week. Which notebook would give me the best replay value for under $1000?

[sirnick4]

I recommend seeing this thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=8847&highlight=buy+mac)

It probably could answer all of your questions as to why an iBook is a good choice for a college student who will be using the computer for the reasons you suggested :)

Oh and btw, welcome to AppleNova :)

[anthonyb]

Thanks for the welcome.

I will read the thread you showed me. Despite the search feature my thought at the time was more of a personalized recommendation, but I was def. give this a read. :)

[Luca]

One thing to keep in mind is that the HP notebook is going to be a lot bulkier and will get much worse battery life than the iBook. If you value mobility (which I assume you do if you're buying a laptop), the iBook is a much better choice. Also, the screen on the HP notebook is only physically larger but it has no more pixels. You have the same amount of usable screen real estate to work with on the HP, it's just spread out over a larger physical screen so it appears larger. This is great if you have bad eyes or if you just like to kick back and relax, but the added bulk makes the value of large screens with 1024x768 resolution questionable.

Macs are really cool machines and I think if you get one (and keep an open mind about it; they are nice but they're not perfect!) you will really enjoy it.

[anthonyb]

Under OSX, is 1.33Ghz considered a healthy speed to keep an iBook up to speed for the next 2-3 years compared to an AMD 64-Bit CPU running at 2.2Ghz?

My biggest fear is paying $1000 for a notebook to only last me for less than a year. Money is not something I have a lot of, and I could only imagine the frustration I would feel if I bought an obsolete machine that costed way more than a Windows notebook that I know will get 2-3 years out of.

[BlueRabbit]

1.33 GHz is plenty fast for all of the basic stuff you should be doing, and then some. My 500 MHz iMac still works fine after 4 years, and I expect that my 1 GHz Powerbook won't become obsolete for my needs for another two years, at least.

[FFL]

I have a friend still using the 500 MHz G3 (first model of current form factor) that I bought over 4 years ago. She finds it a little slow when ripping CDs into iTunes, but it still does everything she needs it to do. She's actually the iBook's third owner and it's still going strong.

"Obsolete" is only a state of mind. :D

"Outdated" is a more valid description of what happens to older computers. Historically speaking, you will find a new HP unusably outdated at least a year or two sooner than a new iBook.

[sirnick4]

I think a big plus of the iBook is that it is small, and very sturdy--> two things that are essential for a college student looking into a laptop.

Also, you can't beat OS X. It only took me a week to feel like I knew it well, you will absolutely love OSX. I switched a year ago and would never go back to Windows.

Plus, you have great communities like AppleNova that can help you along the way. :)

[atomicbartbeans]

Dude... this is no contest.

Mac > PC

:)

Edit: A good friend of mine's only computer is a 450 mhz iBook SE (the toilet seat kind), and it's 5 years old. He is the 2nd owner of the machine. He loves it, and it's 90% as capable as my new iBook G4. It's a great little laptop, and it still kicks the ass of any new peecee.

Even better: until this January, my main computer was a Powermac 6100 running OS 7.5.5, made in late 1994. That machine had a great 10-year useful life (it has had 4 owners), and it shows no sign of losing usefulness. Even up to the beginning of this year (when I got my iBook), it still handled the internet, email, music, and word processing just fine. Although I don't use it full-time anymore, it still runs like a champ. :)

I'm looking at using my 8-month-old iBook as my main computer at least halfway through college (that's 4 years off, kids).

Macs change hands more than peecees because they stay useable and snappy for so long. They don't need periodic reformatting like peecees do, the OS is more capable, and the hardware is more durable.

[BarracksSi]

My biggest fear is paying $1000 for a notebook to only last me for less than a year.
If I really wanted to, I could still be using the 300 MHz G3 iBook that I got in 1999. It's running 10.2 right now (and can run 10.3), and its only practical drawbacks are its small hard drive, no DVD, and lack of FireWire. For everything else that doesn't have those requirements, it's still dandy.

Like FFL said, "obsolete" is just a state of mind. Don't pay much attention to the marketing hype that says that last year's computer suddenly sucks -- even though it was state-of-the-art last year.

I could take that old iBook, have a larger hard drive & DVD drive installed, get a new battery, and do 90% of the stuff I do now.

Now, let's be clear -- I'm not saying that my current iBook is 6 years behind. I'm saying that it will continue to be a very capable computer 6 years from now.

[OnStage]

12 inch ibook rocks, AS A TOOL TO GET THE WORK DONE. !
mine is 4 years old (G3 500mhz), and is my only machine for proffessional photoshop, and indesign work. Would I recomend it for these uses, no but it's all I've been able to afford to date, does get the work done? YES!! and YES!! again!
The current G4 is much more full featured (relative to it's competition) than my G3 was, and I would expect it's usefull life to be correspondingly longer.
get the ibook, you won't look back.
john

[psmith2.0]

All great, and true, responses.

Also, anthonyb, you have other things in the mix - besides simple hardware specs and "performance". Things like security and virus concerns. I'd feel safer with Mac OS X than a Windows machine, this day and age.

Microsoft Office on the Mac is great. And you also mention digital media, which is what iLife 05 is all about! Comes bundled on the iBook, ready to go.

I think people who look strictly at price and "bigger, higher numbers and features" don't always make the best, smartest choice in the long run. For some, sure. But it's not always the case.

You seem open to the idea of giving a Mac a try. I do think you'd be happy. And you could always post here to get answers to the questions you'll encounter.

[anthonyb]

Thanks everyone for all the helpful information. This is the first forum I have ever experienced where there are nice people for a change.

I think I am going to take the plunge! I am sure I will have a lot of questions about OSX since for me this is like starting over.

I also noticed a few people from Austin, pretty cool. Talk to you all soon.

[Mommy8me]

I just switched from PC to a 12" PB super.

>It is the best decision i've ever made.

Simply put, PC = KIA and Mac = BMW

edit:
Are you a UT student?
I am a sophomore EE

[anthonyb]

I am studying at ACC taking down the vanilla courses. I intend to transfer to UT once I make up my mind on a degree in Design or Chemistry.

[losslesshead]

One thing I would just like to quickly add in is that HP computers CRASH, ALOT! HP's that I have used have crashed for no apparent reason. But Macs, never even heard of one crashing.

Plus someone I know just got the 12' iBook, it packs a lot of power and could definatly cover your need for more than three years even.

[autodata]

losslesshead, that sounds like fud from circa 1999. You can go to notebookreview.com's hp/compaq forum (http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3) and see whether they crash all the time for no reason, but I doubt you'll find much.

That said, the iBook is the way to go. There's just no better option in the price range and the new iBooks are absolutely fantastic. You'd have to be foolish not to get it for the kind of usage anthonyb describes.

[torifile]

Get the HP. iBooks are much more attractive to thieves and a laptop that gets stolen is a laptop that's useless to you.

[anthonyb]

Get the HP. iBooks are much more attractive to thieves and a laptop that gets stolen is a laptop that's useless to you.


Haha, nah man I'm not going to use fear as a valid credential for not purchasing an iBook. I'm usually aware of my surroundings and wouldn't leave my notebook unattended anyway.

[DMBand0026]

Haha, nah man I'm not going to use fear as a valid credential for not purchasing an iBook. I'm usually aware of my surroundings and wouldn't leave my notebook unattended anyway.

Get a good notebook lock (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000K4KH/102-8529156-6168101?v=glance) and you won't have to worry.

Make no mistakes though, locks aren't perfect, they're really more for show than anything. A determined enough thief is going to get your computer if he wants it bad enough. However, the lock is a psychological thing. If someone is looking to swipe a car and they see two parked next to each other one locked and the other unlocked, naturally they'll go for the easier target, even if the locked car is slightly nicer.

What I'm saying is, a thief can take your computer even if its locked up, but they most likely won't even try because they know the guy next door to you has his computer unsecured, an easy target.

[sirnick4]

Moral of the story.. never leave your computer unattended while on campus.

[Mugge]

You hardly need to leave a 12" iBook alone. It's small enough to fit in the pockets of certain types baggy pants ;)

well, I don't like taking mine to the toilet, or something like that. So I just discretely slip it into my rucksack, if I need to leave it behind. But then I'm also pretty damn sure none of my classmates would be a thief anyway. It's more in case a stranger should wander into the class room during a coffee break. As DMB also pointed out, it's a matter of psychology not to leave a flashy piece of hardware sitting unattended.

And another tip:
It's my experience, that with an iBook it's a good idea to get a piece of cloth, to put between the screen and keyboard when you move it around closed in your bag. Otherwise there might show up an imprint of the keyboard on the screen. It appeared to be just dust on mine, but I gather that scratches are also a possibility. Actually I think it comes with a piece of packing-foam between the screen and keyboard when you get it. You could easily just use that. I think thats where I got mine from, but I don't remember it.

[anthonyb]

Hey everyone!

I just want to say thanks for all the nice input to help me decide which notebook to purchase. I bought a 12" iBook three days ago and I love it. To put it simple: everything is just so easy and/or automatic.

I have two questions though, it's advertised that I can get 6 hours of battery life but at the most I get around 4-4 1/2 hours which the settings on "Better Battery Life." Are there more settings I can consider to increase it to 6 hours? I did the battery colaberation thing last night (drained it, recharge) and I am worried maybe I waited too long to do it (3 days instead of the day of purchase).

Any info to calm my nerves would be great!

Thanks!

It just occured to me I never typed my second question, last night I unplugged my iPod when it said "Do Not Disconnect" because it was saying that for atleast 20 minutes and I was not doing any file xfering, did I potentially mess up the "BIOS" in the iPod? Sorry I am parinoid when I get new toys.

[sirnick4]

If you turn down the brightness level, it gives you more battery life. As well as many other things..
Running high-intensive stuff on your computer can make your battery life drain real fast!

When I go to class though, I always turn down my brightness level so I can get the most juice out of my laptop.

[Luca]

You don't have to worry that you waited too long to calibrate the battery or anything... 4.5 hours sounds about right. Go ahead and use the best battery life settings, but don't expect to get the full six hours advertised. It simply won't happen. I think when Apple tests their laptops for battery life, they don't have any applications open at all and they might even have the screen's backlight turned completely OFF (which would allow you to get six hours of life but it wouldn't really be very useful).

Before you unplug your iPod, you should unmount it from your computer. You can do this by looking for the iPod's icon on the desktop and then dragging it to the trash. When you start dragging it, the trash will turn into an eject symbol. Alternatively, you can open iTunes and click on the eject icon next to the iPod in the source list on the left side. The "do not disconnect" message should disappear within moments of unmounting the iPod from your computer.

I don't think you did any damage. The main problem is that as long as the iPod is mounted as an external disk on your computer, it's possible that the computer is transferring data to and from the iPod. If you disconnect it without unmounting it, any data in transit could become corrupted. But the chance of that happening is low, especially if you're not using the iPod when you do it. I'd still highly recommend it though.

You don't run the risk of messing up the iPod's "BIOS" (really, the ROM and firmware; BIOS is part of a PC motherboard). At worst you'll corrupt some of the data on the iPod's hard drive or on your computer's hard drive, but you won't do any physical damage to anything. Most external hard drives would be damaged if you disconnected them abruptly because they normally need time to spin down instead of jarring to a halt, but the iPod has a battery so it won't suffer from this.

[anthonyb]

Thanks for the good feedback Luca. I knew BIOS was totally the wrong word I was looking for, brain failure haha!

[Kyros]

Actually, you should be able to hit the advertised battery life with the screen brightness at dimmest (not off) and only word processing (pages at least, for me). My powerbook gets over 5 hours like that, and it is advertised at 5 hours. If you are just taking notes in class, this should be fine.

[Dorian Gray]

Good decision anthonyb. My first Apple was a 12-inch iBook with a 700 MHz G3 processor. Its beauty stunned me for about 48 hours, then for about a week I was worried I had made a bad choice. I didn't know how to use keyboard shortcuts for anything, even to do simple things like highlighting all the text in a paragraph. Then I made a concerted effort to learn the operating system properly, and within another week I was cursing when I had to use a clumsy Windows OS.

A couple of things. You'll get six hours of battery life if you set the screen brightness as low as it goes (but not off) and set Processor Performance to "Reduced", then use the computer for note-taking. You will get less if you do anything more intensive or put the screen brightness up. Apple is ambitious about the battery life, but trust me, no more so than any other manufacturer. A relative of mine has a Toshiba notebook with a Pentium-4 processor and the battery lasts between 20 minutes and one hour depending on usage and screen brightness. The HP zv6000 would have much poorer battery life than your iBook despite its large size.

If I could offer you one tip it would be to click on the Apple menu in the top left of the screen, then "System Preferences...", then "Dashboard & Exposé". Set the top-left screen corner to "All Windows" and the top-right to "Desktop". This will drive you mad for a day or two as you accidentally hit the corners of the screen, but then you will become addicted to the effortless window management it provides. Exposé is a fantastic productivity enhancer that just has no comparable competition in the Windows world. You will love it, guaranteed!

Another great feature for getting things done is Spotlight. Hit command-space (command is the key with an Apple) to invoke it, then enter a word or two of text that you remember from a document. Any files that match what you're looking for will immediately be shown: just click on it to open it. It's Apple magic!

Enjoy.

[carnellm]

OK, I have been lurking here. I "convinced" my work to buy me a Mac to replace my Dell laptop. I have to say, this is the most helpful place I have come across, and it is tips like this that make the Mac great. Being able to set the corners, spotlight, and so many other things that I may have read in a Mac book but didn't try until I was just sitting here reading the forum.

You guys are the best!

Michael