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chantman
2005-09-22, 17:41
Ok, I'm a computer technician, heavily trained and lots of experience in Windows machines and regular pc hardware. I've used Mac's a little bit, and I seem to like what I see.

I'm ready to purchase a new laptop, and I think I want to buy a Mac. I would like to play some games (WoW, Doom3, etc.), also when my wife and I start having kids I would like to do video and photo editing.

I've done alot of research, and I think I want to go with the PowerBook w/Superdrive, 128m of vram. Will I get at least 3 hours of battery life out of this system??? Also, I have a friend who had a Powerbook that had problems with it. I also see alot more older ibooks floating around than powerbooks. Is there a quality/life expectancy problem with the Powerbooks?

Thanks!

-Mike

Bryson
2005-09-22, 17:48
As a computer tech, I'd say you'd be more comforatable with the extra power/screen resolution etc of the Powerbook.

Re: eBay, I think it's more that people hang onto their powerbooks more as they don't outgrow the capabilities as fast.

Doom3 is probably not going to happen on any Mac laptop at a reasonable speed. I hear it chokes a bit on a dual G5. And here's a little secret about Doom 3 - it's not very good. Shame really.

Edit: Almost forgot....Welcome to Applenova!

losslesshead
2005-09-22, 19:28
Definatley should go with the Powerbook. The 15 inch is really god, and the 17 is too big unless you NEED the extra screen space.

Robo
2005-09-22, 20:59
Yeah...go with the Powerbook.

Don't buy it yet, though. Wait at least until Tuesday the 27th - updates are rumored.

I'm hoping I'll be able to pick up an updated 12".

Welcome to Applenova!

Luca
2005-09-22, 22:35
Ok, I'm a computer technician, heavily trained and lots of experience in Windows machines and regular pc hardware. I've used Mac's a little bit, and I seem to like what I see.

I'm ready to purchase a new laptop, and I think I want to buy a Mac. I would like to play some games (WoW, Doom3, etc.), also when my wife and I start having kids I would like to do video and photo editing.
Glad you're interested in getting a Mac. They really are great machines.

A word of warning though - games on Macs tend to run pretty slowly. Most games are really badly done porting jobs that are very sluggish even on fast hardware. You'd expect a dual G5 with a Radeon X850XT to be a gaming monster, but relative to a similarly equipped PC, it's really not very good. A PowerBook won't be able to run Doom 3 well at all (though WoW should be acceptable). Doom 3 isn't even a very good game IMHO, but that's just my opinion.

I should stress that gaming performance is usually adequate, but don't expect anything impressive. It's nothing like gaming on a PC. Also, I want to emphasize that gaming performance suffers because of the poor quality of the games themselves, not because of the hardware or the OS.

I've done alot of research, and I think I want to go with the PowerBook w/Superdrive, 128m of vram. Will I get at least 3 hours of battery life out of this system???
About that much with power-saving features on. Just dim the screen and drop the processor speed and that sounds about right. PowerBooks don't get excellent battery life, but it's not too bad either.

Also, I have a friend who had a Powerbook that had problems with it. I also see alot more older ibooks floating around than powerbooks. Is there a quality/life expectancy problem with the Powerbooks?
I doubt it. First of all, you probably see older iBooks more often than older PowerBooks because of the types of people you see and the types of people who own iBooks vs. PowerBooks. This isn't like Dell where they have half a dozen different notebook models all in the $600-$1500 range; Apple has just the two distinct lines, with the iBooks covering the entire consumer price range. PowerBooks have always been out of reach of most computer users, and tend to only be owned by professionals, people with large and stable incomes, and enthusiasts. Also, a lot of the people who buy iBooks (like families) will tend to go longer without replacing their computer. I know many enthusiasts who switch computers more than once a year... I'm one of them, and I know that many of the people who post here are more likely to switch computers every 1-2 years than every 3-4.

Contrary to what your friend is saying, I would say that PowerBooks tend to have better build quality than iBooks, and they tend to last longer (not just as useful machines, but I think they actually last longer before dying).

Thanks!

-Mike
Sure, I'm glad to help people when I can. I hope you like AppleNova. And I strongly recommend the PowerBook if you can afford it! They are excellent machines. And yes, the 15" is probably the best. The 17" is too big and the 12" is very crippled and really more like a gussied-up iBook than a true PowerBook.

Franz Josef
2005-09-23, 04:40
Hi Mike, welcome. I would only go for an iBook or a 12" PB if it's first rate portability you want. The 15" PB with 128 VRAM will easily last 3 hours and there aren't any build quality issues - quite the opposite. I would strongly recommend getting 1-1.5GB of RAM - Macs are very RAM intensive and you will see a noticable increase in performance.

If you're looking for a bargain, you might also want to consider looking at Apple refurbished PBs offering around 20% saving. Refurbs have a excellent reputation for reliability as Apple practically check every component before they release them.

HezMah19
2005-09-23, 04:43
And I strongly recommend the PowerBook if you can afford it! They are excellent machines. And yes, the 15" is probably the best.

I'll second that, the 15" PowerBook is an incredible machine ( I own one so I should know ;) )

Just a mention:
The PowerBook's Battery will last ABOUT 1:30 with the display on max brightness with processor speed set to highest., HOWEVER for most tasks besides gaming you only really need the processor performance set to "reduced" and display is fine at 50% brightness, and the performance is decent. iMovie still runs relatively well and this way you should get AROUND 2:40 > 3:00 hours battery.

Also macs have a relatively high quality standard. I love my PowerBook, and I will NEVER sell it, even in 10 years when its outdated beyond comprehension, I'll still have it.

Welcome to AppleNova!
:)

chantman
2005-09-23, 12:01
All I can say is... WOW... If I would have went into any PC forum and asked those questions, I would have gotten flamed, or been given inconsistent/unreliable answers.

I really appreciate the kindness and willingness to help of people in these forums. If this is anything what the general Mac community is like, I think I will love being a member.

I agree with many of your posts saying Doom3 isn't that great of a game. I've played it on the PC and it isn't the best. I just thought it would be cool if a Pbook could run it well. My main concern is running WoW, I think I'm going to go back to that game. From the sounds of it, the 15" Pbook will run it very well.

After visiting a local Apple store, my wife is really interested in getting a Mac... She even confessed to me last night that she preferred the Powerbook over the iBook. I normally can't get her to make a decision on anything :)

I work in the educational field, so I think I can get a pretty nice discount.... And I think I'll wait until after Tuesday when the rumored updated Pbooks come out. I'll let you all know what happens.

Thanks!!!!!

-Mike

BarracksSi
2005-09-24, 05:18
In case you haven't seen this article yet:

http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/05/08/16/index.html

theninjasquad
2005-09-26, 15:08
I'm planning on buying a powerbook soon as well, and one of my concerns was about gaming. I dont do much at all, just play some half-life mods. I guess my question is, well since half-life isnt availabel for macs, is there a big performance hit running games through VirtualPC? I figured that was the only way to run most games, and I wasnt sure how well they would run if at all. I need VirtualPC to run some windows programs that I need for school, so I was hoping on running half life on it too. Whats the verdict? Thanks!

Bryson
2005-09-26, 15:26
... is there a big performance hit running games through VirtualPC?
Yep, a great big one. As far as I know, games running in VPC are unable to use GPU acceleration, which hits graphics performance hard.
I figured that was the only way to run most games, and I wasnt sure how well they would run if at all.
Well, there are some Mac games. Very popular stuff gets ported over. Not Halflife though.
I need VirtualPC to run some windows programs that I need for school, so I was hoping on running half life on it too. Whats the verdict? Thanks!
Virtual PC is only really useful as a "get-out-of-jail" measure. It really doesn't have acceptable performance for any serious work. Lets put it this way: I use VPC to run a DOS-based lighting control programme, which is basically just a spreadsheet with changing values, and I notice lag in that.

Out of interest, what programmes are you going to use VPC for? Someone here might know a Mac-based alternative.

curiousuburb
2005-09-26, 15:55
I'm planning on buying a powerbook soon as well, and one of my concerns was about gaming. I dont do much at all, just play some half-life mods. I guess my question is, well since half-life isnt availabel for macs, is there a big performance hit running games through VirtualPC? I figured that was the only way to run most games, and I wasnt sure how well they would run if at all. I need VirtualPC to run some windows programs that I need for school, so I was hoping on running half life on it too. Whats the verdict? Thanks!
Welcome to AN!

As bryson has mentioned, VPC is a last resort workaround for some 'must-have-a-PC' apps, but as I recall, cannot call shaders or DirectX or similar GPU functions, so is fundamentally a "No Gaming" option. Not just a performance hit, a literal brick wall for those who try native PC games rather than ported ones.

Apple has traditionally gone with OpenGL rather than DirectX, while the PC side have gone the other way (in part due to licensing deals on OpenGL vs MSonopoly practices).

Core Image (Apple's new shader-like Graphics technology) simulates some of the functions of DirectX9 (I think), so it's possible future gaming ports may run smoother on the Mac, but that probably won't scratch your immediate itch.

Macs have always been designer tools, not gamer tools historically. But companies like Aspyr (http://aspyr.com) do some porting, and Myst started on the Mac, as have a few other gems of the genre, mainly due to superior sound and graphics back in the day.

Don't sweat the lack of button-mashing apps... learn to luuurve the elegant industrial design and attention to detail instead. ;)

Franz Josef
2005-09-26, 16:43
.... VirtualPC..As they said, avoid VPC unless absolutely necessary, it is very slow and memory intensive.

theninjasquad
2005-09-26, 21:24
I kind of had a feeling this was the case, that it wouldnt be good at all for gaming. But im fine with that, I hardly play anyways so was just curious :)

I think im going to need VPC though, at least for a few things. This is my last year at university, for comp sci. I need it to run Visual Studio .net for this one class of mine, no exception. I have to do some java as well, but im sure theres a few good java apps available for OSX. Then mostly web design, but I can just use Dreamweaver for that.

Ive just grown really tired of windows, and want something new. And the PB's seem just as competitive as any windows laptop so I want to make the switch. My only concern of course was being able to run apps that I need for school things, but this is looking to not be too big a problem at all.

Franz Josef
2005-09-26, 23:58
Then run VPC with an earlier version of Windows (such as 2000) if possible - VPC running XP is the slowest.

alcimedes
2005-09-27, 00:10
Hmm. For a first time Mac user I usually recommend the cheapest Mac possible so you can get a taste without blowing a ton of scratch on a machine.

From what you described I think this is what's going to happen.

You'll buy your laptop. It will take about a month or two (longer if you're really comfortable with Windows) and it will be the best computer you've ever used. It will feel like an extension of yourself, and will work with you instead of you against it.

Then you'll find one of two things.

Either you'll be happy with your purchase, as you use it for mail, web browsing, light photo work and such, and that will be the end of the story.

Or

You'll do all the same as above, only you'll get really into some of the higher end functions that a Mac can bring to the table like iMovie, iDVD, giant iPhoto libraries, audio work etc. and you'll find that a laptop really doesn't it cut it for cutting edge work. You'll end up wanting a desktop machine with more power.

If you go with an iBook it will run you about $1000, maybe $1,200 with AppleCare. You'll find out if you like the OS, and what you're really going to use it for. You'll be exposed to a lot of new software, and there's no telling how you'll really want to use it.

Or, you go with a PowerBook, it will run you at least $2,500 (most likely) and you may find that you still want a desktop when you're done.

I guess that right now (pre Intel mobile chips) I don't see a huge benefit to going with a powerbook other than the screen rez, and I'd save my money.

*note* this advice is probably worthless once they release the Intel based PowerBooks.

*note2* i've also been drinking so take this advice with a grain of salt. and a lime. and another shot!!!! WOO

curiousuburb
2005-09-27, 03:37
*note2* i've also been drinking so take this advice with a grain of salt. and a lime. and another shot!!!! WOO

caveat of the week!

chantman
2005-09-28, 22:10
Ok, so the situation has changed... Well, the money sitaution that is. Looks like I'll only be able to afford the high-end ibook. Will that be sufficient for video editing (simple stuff like home movies), and playing WoW?

After reading Alcimede's post, I'm not so sure.

Thanks!

BlueRabbit
2005-09-28, 22:16
For video editing, it'll be fine. My 1 GHz Powerbook does just awesome with iMovie. However, you'll want to get an external hard drive before you take too much film, since 60 gigs fills up really fast.

As for WoW, I don't have any experience with that, so I'll let someone else fill you in.

BarracksSi
2005-09-28, 22:41
Look at it this way --

The iBook is the Powerbook of last year (or two) -- and people were editing video on Powerbooks even before that.

Franz Josef
2005-09-28, 23:23
Looks like I'll only be able to afford the high-end ibook. Will that be sufficient for video editing (simple stuff like home movies)The iBook will be fine for this.

alcimedes
2005-09-28, 23:29
The iBook will be fine, just set the draw distance in WoW to be short, rather than long.

As for video editing, I'd recommend a decent external 1394 drive. Faster than the internal drive on the iBook and will leave you with enough space to do everything else you want.

Anthem
2005-09-29, 00:26
As for video editing, I'd recommend a decent external 1394 drive. Faster than the internal drive on the iBook and will leave you with enough space to do everything else you want.

Why get a FireWire 400 drive when USB2.0 is faster?

Now, a FireWire 800 drive, that I could understand. But those are a lot harder to find.

Brad
2005-09-29, 00:32
Why get a FireWire 400 drive when USB2.0 is faster?
FireWire generally has a higher sustained throughput, regardless of "maximum theoretical speeds."

Here's a blow-by-blow comparison: http://www.digit-life.com/articles/usb20vsfirewire/ FireWire is nearly twice as fast in some tests.

Others have reported that USB can use up significantly more CPU resources under certain circumstances.

Luca
2005-09-29, 00:38
Also you can boot from a Firewire drive. You cannot use a USB hard drive to boot up your computer.

Koodari
2005-09-29, 02:48
The iBook will be fine, just set the draw distance in WoW to be short, rather than long.Ahem!

I play WoW on my iBook (last revision), and it's not fine at all.
All graphics and detail at minimum, with 768MB memory, it's still so slow I don't bother playing against other humans. I have tried a little bit, and it's just a recipe for frustration. The fun fighting is in large battles, and if you go near a large battle the iBook rolls over and dies. It even lags while in a five-man instance group sometimes.

It's a great computer, but can't honestly be recommended for running new games.

curiousuburb
2005-09-29, 04:27
Why get a FireWire 400 drive when USB2.0 is faster?

Now, a FireWire 800 drive, that I could understand. But those are a lot harder to find.
The iBook doesn't have a FW 800 port... (PB 15" does, but that's apparently out of consideration)

As noted above, FW is a superior choice for sustained speed, bootable capability, power consumption (plus a 6 pin FW drive can draw power from the iBook... USB drives often require 2 USB ports for power or need an external brick), etc.

Mac+
2005-09-29, 04:36
Ahem!

I play WoW on my iBook (last revision), and it's not fine at all.
All graphics and detail at minimum, with 768MB memory, it's still so slow I don't bother playing against other humans. I have tried a little bit, and it's just a recipe for frustration. The fun fighting is in large battles, and if you go near a large battle the iBook rolls over and dies. It even lags while in a five-man instance group sometimes.

It's a great computer, but can't honestly be recommended for running new games.I think Luca will readily concur that most Macs cannot be recommended for running new games.

alcimedes
2005-09-29, 07:26
*shrugs* To each their own. My powerbook would fall over dead if you got near a big group, however I hadn't realized the iBook only has 32mb of VRAM. it might struggle. :) (draw distance is the world though. set that puppy to min)

chantman
2005-09-30, 12:03
Ok... Dang... you guys are making this really tough on me. I may be able to squeeze an extra thousand and get the Pbook. Someone just straight up say what I definitely should get if I wanna play some WoW and do some light video editing.

curiousuburb
2005-09-30, 12:37
Wait a month if you can... WSJ has rumoured that new PMs and PBooks are due in Oct.

They were bang on about the intel Mac announcement months ahead of it being official.

switchr92
2005-09-30, 17:58
GET AN iBOOK! It can pull off light video editing, in fact quite smoothly if you double/max out the RAM, WoW won't play better than mediocre on either an iBook or a Pbook, and the slight increase in preformance isn't worth $1000. The iBook also gives you a more portable, durable case and better battery life than the Pbook. I also strongly agree with alcimedes long comment about how you should first buy a cheap apple to get used to the OS, than you might want more power than any notebook can ever give you, Pbook or iBook, so definetely go iBook. I'm typing on this iBook (12" 1.33GHz) right now, and it's so sweet.

chantman
2005-10-02, 11:37
Thanks all for you suggestions.

I think I'm going to wait until the intel powerbooks come out... More power, more games will be ported, more apps, dual boot w/windows.

Thanks!

Anthem
2005-10-05, 10:40
Just a followup.

I stand corrected on throughput speeds, but it's not true that you can't boot from USB. OSX might not boot from USB, but that's because Apple doesn't want it to.

JoeNJ
2005-10-05, 11:10
Chantman may have decided to wait a bit, but I'm going to jump into the Mac pool this weekend.

Thanks to all the forum members for their sound advice to switchers like Chantman and myself! And, oh yeah, he's right...he would've gotten flamed in a PC forum for his question. Nice to know not all posting boards are populated by chuckleheads.

I was going to go with the 12" PB, but have thought better of it all. The intent is to follow Alcimedes' suggestion to go with a nibble at the Mac in the IBook range of things. Makes perfect sense! It isn't an overwhelming expense that I can't walk away from if I want to move to a MacTel laptop or slink back to Windoze.

I'll let you know how the switch goes. Thanks again!!

awilso
2005-10-05, 15:41
Buy a powerbook now, forget the waiting, - when the new one comes out, find some idiot who knows nothing and sell your powerbook to him as a new one for a profit and re-invest......


hoorahh for capitalism :lol:

awilso
2005-10-05, 15:43
Ok... Dang... you guys are making this really tough on me. I may be able to squeeze an extra thousand and get the Pbook. Someone just straight up say what I definitely should get if I wanna play some WoW and do some light video editing.



Well you did ask!

Luca
2005-10-05, 16:48
Wait until after the special event!

And remember that PowerBooks really aren't any better than iBooks at the moment.

PB PM
2005-10-05, 19:50
The 32mb VRAM on the iBook wont cut it with most modern 3d games, so the powerbook with at least 64mb or 128 VRAM RAM is a good investment for the future. I have a G4 deskstop with a 64 MB ATI Radeon 8500 and that plays games like Call of Duty well, not sure how that compares to WOW though.

Franz Josef
2005-10-06, 04:38
Welcome JoeNJ. Given the recent announcment of an Apple event on 12 October, best to wait unitl then just in case. It's not likely that anything will change with the iBook range but it is worth just waiting for the week.

If you do eventually go for an iBook, do take on board the many recommendations about RAM and hard-drive size - particularly the former as your iBook will run noticeably faster.

FJ

JoeNJ
2005-10-06, 08:59
FJ -
I'm a little torn about the "waiting" thing. On the one hand, what's another seven days? On the other, one has to wait still more time until new or upgraded things get in the distribution pipeline (fingers drumming...).

If I were on a reliable computing platform, I'd sit on my hands (or more accurately my credit card) a bit more. However, my laughably out-dated PC is demonstrating reluctance to perform elementary tasks such as booting up. :eek:

At this point, my computing needs are low end. I'm not doing anything that's CPU or hard drive intensive. Bumps there aren't going to do that much for me. Nice to have, but I'm not going to make myself nuts. With school back in session, its difficult to imagine much of a "gotta have it!" increment in iBook land. All things considered, I'll probably just plunge ahead and take my chances. I gave up a long time ago on trying to catch up with the next big whoop in technology. The individual is always behind the curve in that game.

I'll get the Apple retail store to bump the RAM to 1 Gb. The price increment to go higher seems out of line. I don't think I'll be able to boost the HD past 40Gb in the retail outlet, but who knows. Maybe they'll have something bouncing around.

Franz Josef
2005-10-06, 09:15
I hear what you're saying :) - if I were using a PC now, low-end or not, I wouldn't want to wait 7 days for a brand spanking new iBook.

JoeNJ
2005-10-14, 07:37
Since everyone was so helpful, I thought I'd update you all on what happened with my purchase.

I was going to drop into the local Apple Store in NJ last Saturday 10/8/05 and just get the thing done. However, I got all jammed up doing a "Driving Miss Daisy" thing for my mother and never got around to it.

That being the case, I decided to wait until the Wednesday event to see what shook out of the Apple tree.

Since nothing occured that impacted the choice I was making, I got the deal done last night after work. It actually turned out very well indeed!

Bought a stock 12" iBook, an AirPort Extreme base, .Mac, Pogue's "Missing Manual" book and AppleCare Service. The .Mac account was on promotion saving me $30US on the first year's subscription. Nice, but I knew about that. The great thing was that in exchange for purchasing AppleCare then instead of next month as I had planned, the sales rep threw in a 1/2 Gb RAM upgrade for free! Nor was there any installation charge. The free install at Apple may be S.O.P., but I didn't expect it. Never would have gotten *that* deal on-line or at CompUSA!

Still have to wade through Setup Assistant, but all in all, I'm a pretty happy camper looking forward to working on a brand-ie new Mac! :)

If a potential buyer reading this is from the Central New Jersey area, you should give some thought to directing your business to the Menlo Park Mall Apple Store in Edison, NJ. A very nice experiece!

gregconnon
2006-01-08, 12:47
I am new. My 12"powerbok is a very good solid laptop. I also have a g5 imac the performance difference is noticable but not drastic.
My question to all of you is.....once this intel switch is done how long do you think apple(and other companies) will continue to support the ppc platform?

BarracksSi
2006-01-08, 12:51
My question to all of you is.....once this intel switch is done how long do you think apple(and other companies) will continue to support the ppc platform?
Apple has already said that the PPC will at least be supported through OS 10.5.

I would say it'll be officially supported for as long as it gets software updates (10.5.2, 10.5.3, etc). So it's got a few years, and once the updates stop coming, the computer itself will last as long as its hardware holds together.

Brad
2006-01-08, 12:51
gregconnon, I think you managed to miss this somehow:

Read this BEFORE posting ANYTHING about the Intel/x86 switch!! (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=8488)

In short, don't worry about it.

gregconnon
2006-01-08, 12:55
I think a powerbook is a good idea if ppc will be supported for a while.
but in just a few days you will be able to see what intel macs will have. Also ppc powerbooks will be sold on ebay in droves when mactel arrives, so you could buy one that way if you aren't impressed with whatever intel macs a premiered.

gregconnon
2006-01-08, 12:59
sorry. I did miss that and now I kinda feel dumb yet happy that the $4000(Iam canadian eh) on mac hardware isn't going to be junk in 3 months.
sorry again though.

gregconnon
2006-01-08, 13:03
thanks, that's good news