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Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley What if I don't want to play with cookies, then how well will PHP stand up?

Firstly, why wouldn't you want cookies? Secondly, PHP's session module (Which I generally don't use - I prefer a custom solution in that area) can use URL-based sessions as well. It even goes to the trouble of replacing links in the final page being sent to the client with the additional URL argument, automatically.

Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley Again if I don't use cookies then this forum won't hold any state for me. If you don't want the "horrible" URLs then you can use direct actions, or cookies as well. Here the alternatives to PHP give you more options.

Yes it will. Disable cookies in your browser, and log in. It'll work fine, however, your session will be lost when you leave the forum. Also, what do you mean by direct actions?

Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley About the only thing I can think of here is flexibility in deployment. Sure that is a a big plus for PHP no arguments there.

As well as flexiblity post-deployment. Files may be edited while the application is live, in order to fix a bug or a security hole, for example.

Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley Uhh a framework is a code library, an API is how you call that code, PHP has these. So you have to enable database access, why would that not make it part of the framework that comes with PHP?

I use the term API more freely than I should, now that I realize what I said. Secondly, I disagree that a framework is simply a code library. Simply having a set of functions does not provide you with the basis for the beginnings of an application. It's just that: a toolkit. As for Database access, I was simply saying that it no longer 'comes with' PHP.

Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley MVC is a great design pattern, and as NeXT showed it even works really well with the web. Sorry but I can't imagine any good web code that would not hold to separating display from business logic. Can you make a compelling argument for why the two should be mixed in a web app? If you can't then having the framework help you with MVC is nothing but a win.

I agree, MVC is a good design, and it works well. However, it's most certainly not the only application structure pattern. Take a look at PAC, MMVC, etc. The aforementioned paradigms are simply extentions, or modifications, to MVC, however, they are not composed in the same way, and hence, cannot use the same framework.

Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley It's obvious that you really like PHP, that's fine. PHP is good at what it is designed to do. However, there are alternative technologies for dynamic web content that do work better than PHP. I'm just trying to offer my thoughts on what those technologies are, and why they are better.

As am I. And yes, I do like PHP, however, I'm often frustrated by the limitations of said language, so I've often looked at alternatives.