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What's It Gonna Take?


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What's It Gonna Take?
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2019-06-11, 09:44

There really aren't any new members anymore though. Just spambots. For all the reasons laid out in this thread. Now the thing that brought everyone here together was a shared interest in Apple. But that has sort of faded as Apple has gotten bigger but lost a lot of their mystique. Not to mention there are so many other places to go if you want to talk about stuff.

The advantage of a forum like this is the sense of community you get from being here. Discussions move slow because there aren't many people, but you can get to know people. But if you're not already part of the community, what advantage is there? You're better off going to a Facebook group or a subreddit where there are lots of people. Or even track down one of the really big forums that's still active like Ars Technica or AnandTech.

I know whenever I go to join a forum it's annoying to have to wait for an admin to approve my account, if they do that. Or to have restrictions on posting until you post a welcome thread. But I also get that having a forum overrun with fake accounts isn't desirable. It seems the majority of new posters are actually spam accounts, but how many of those do we even get?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-11, 10:10

All those points are valid, which is why we are also trying to come up with a way to reinsert the forum on the map.

- There are other things to talk about.
- We have smart members who can talk about those things.
- Can we get those things front and center on a redesigned homepage?
- Can we draw new users and conversation through that content?
- Can we stem the flood of bots with some simple posting revisions for new users?

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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Fahrenheit
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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2019-06-11, 11:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
All those points are valid, which is why we are also trying to come up with a way to reinsert the forum on the map.

- There are other things to talk about.
- We have smart members who can talk about those things.
- Can we get those things front and center on a redesigned homepage?
- Can we draw new users and conversation through that content?
- Can we stem the flood of bots with some simple posting revisions for new users?
But why though? If the important thing was the community of members, why did everyone disappear? The site isn't a money making venture, so why not just let it slip away if that's what is going to happen? Perhaps make a whatsapp group if there are people you want to stay in touch with, or even a subreddit if you wish to remain anonymous?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-11, 11:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
But why though?
Some things are worth fighting for. If you had a bunch of friends coming over to your house, and then they stop coming over, do you let the weeds take over or burn the house down? No! You figure out why the friends stopped coming over and try to fix that. Was it because they didn't like you? Then figure out why and either stand your ground or fix it. Is it because they found new, rich friends to hang out with? Time to get some new friends! But, torch the house? Hell no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
If the important thing was the community of members, why did everyone disappear?
We're pretty sure there are two reasons:

1) People don't feel that Apple is "exciting" anymore
2) Social media

I think it has more to do with the second option than the first. Social media is easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
The site isn't a money making venture, so why not just let it slip away if that's what is going to happen?
Not all websites have to make money. Around here it isn't about that. And just because something does not make money is no reason to "let it slip away".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
Perhaps make a whatsapp group if there are people you want to stay in touch with, or even a subreddit if you wish to remain anonymous?
I have no intention of letting social media scrape me off. If AN dies, it and its culture cannot be replaced with ad-driven slop! The very purpose of this thread is trying to sort out how we can keep exactly those things from happening. Obviously, there are a few of us left who prefer this avenue. And, no, I will not use Whatsapp. It's owned by Facebook, so no way!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-06-11, 13:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
I came for pscates photoshopping.

I think we have to accept that Applenova and this type of forum flourished at the exact right moment, where a) apple was doing exciting things, b) there wasn't a reddit or a facebook or a twitter, and c) there was a critical mass of people coming from apple insider.

Its very difficult to inorganically create that kind of demand, and I guess the (lets say) 100 members who contributed 90% of the content (Brad please correct this) have moved on.
Yeah, that sounds about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
And y'all talking about how to raise the bar on new members?!!
If the objection is that it's too elitist: point taken (it's already been rejected, so that's kind of moot).

If it's that it sounds contradictory: I'm not sure that's true. I don't think shooting for the masses is feasible at this point; instead, I would recommend tryging to carve out a specific niche. And raising the bar might help with that.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-11, 13:34

[semi-off-topic]

Just as a counterpoint to the "Apple isn't exciting any more": I couldn't bear to watch the Services presentation back in… March, was it?

But I did watch the entirety of the WWDC keynote. No, I didn't like all of it. Yes, there is plenty of criticize. No, Apple isn't the underdog any more (it's unclear if they ever truly were; they've been a massive corporation for decades, really).

But. I still found it inspiring! I've managed software projects, and it's actually really hard. Yes, Apple has a ton of budget, but things don't scale like that in the real world. With most products/projects/apps, they seem to be doing a great job assembling a team that's passionate about shipping stuff they're proud of.

And maybe (it's a stretch, but maybe?) that's a hint towards the angle this site could have: real artists ship.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-11, 13:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
real artists ship.
That's actually a good title for the future-mac focused articles!

Real Artists Ship
A Look At the Future of Computing

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Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: A town that Germany forgot.
 
2019-06-12, 17:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
If the important thing was the community of members, why did everyone disappear?
Life happens, you know...

But really: other forms of social media became consuming...
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Fahrenheit
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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2019-06-13, 10:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky View Post
Life happens, you know...

But really: other forms of social media became consuming...
Exactly, several members on this thread talking about ways to get the forum going and...they haven't made a single other post since this thread started....
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-13, 11:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
they haven't made a single other post since this thread started....
Very true.

Still, the vitality of the forums at Appleinsider and Macrumors tell me there is still room for growth here. We just have to identify what that room looks like, and it is articles, methinks.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2019-06-14, 10:14

Look, we're all circling around the elephant in the room.

What's it going to take?

Spoiler (click to toggle):

New Speed Holes:
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-06-14, 12:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Look, we're all circling around the elephant in the room.

What's it going to take?

Spoiler (click to toggle):

New Speed Holes:
💯👌💥
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2019-06-14, 12:17

Those are some crisp, high-detail emoji
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2019-06-14, 12:21

But in the mean time while I start slaving away on Bryson's excellent suggestion…

There's other upgrade/migration work for me before I can get the server into a state where I could install a modern CMS, but there's nothing stopping anyone from writing article-quality content today and posting it as, well, new forum threads. I would totally encourage anyone who has volunteered to get into the writing habit by doing this. It's a good opportunity to work those typing fingers, get some practice, and prove yourself a few times before your name would show up on a not-forum "front page" somewhere.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-14, 13:54

Illge towo rk onmy ty pin gskil zz!

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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-06-14, 14:02

I need an editor.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-14, 15:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I can lend a hand with that if you like.



Many of you may not know it (although I have said so), but I have written several manuscripts. One thing I have thought about doing is publishing one of them through AN—one chapter at a time.

I'm like Chucker. I can write, but I need an editor. If I decide to do this (and if the community perceives it to be a good idea) I will edit one chapter at a time and post maybe one per week.

We'll see.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-06-14 at 15:21.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-14, 15:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I can lend a hand with that if you like.
Maybe. Is there some collaborative Markdown editor, like Hydra/SubEthaEdit way back in the day? Confluence and Word are pretty good (please don't say Google Docs), but looking for something more low-key.

(Maybe VS Code + Live Share?)
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-14, 15:48

Or maybe I just copy/paste into Pages, edit it, then copy/paste and spit it to you via PM.

We're talking simple, here, mind you.
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chucker
 
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2019-06-14, 15:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Or maybe I just copy/paste into Pages, edit it, then copy/paste and spit it to you via PM.

We're talking simple, here, mind you.
Well sure. Basically something where I can see comments. Doesn't have to be live, I suppose.

(Looks like even TextEdit has iCloud collaboration?)

Pages is fine. I just didn't mention it since I rarely use it and a word processor is technically not quite the right tool. (Or is it…) PM me your iCloud ID?
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chucker
 
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2019-06-14, 15:56

Oh yeah. Likewise, I would suggest a collaborative document where we figure out a topic backlog. Based on that, we can then also figure out if weekly or monthly is more realistic.

How about like this. (Again, I've never really used iCloud collab.)
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-14, 16:06

I've used iCloud collaboration and sometimes it works.

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chucker
 
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2019-06-14, 16:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I've used iCloud collaboration and sometimes it works.

  quote
Franz Josef
Passing by
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London, Europe
 
2019-06-14, 16:14

This is my annual post. Don't say I never give you guys nuthin'
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-14, 16:35

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chucker
 
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2019-06-26, 17:49

OK, that's 927 words vs. my 1597. I think that's right. My piece was just too long-winded. We should probably shoot for something more like 1,000, maybe even just 800.

Now the question is if such a bi-weekly schedule is tenable? Can we / do we want to have one such story every other week?

Do we only want opinion/analysis* pieces? I'm leaning towards yes, since news sources are aplenty. But also, so are tech pundits, so…

*) I could never quite figure out the distinction. Maybe it isn't that clear-cut in today's media.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-06-26, 18:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
OK, that's 927 words vs. my 1597. I think that's right. My piece was just too long-winded. We should probably shoot for something more like 1,000, maybe even just 800.
I think our articles can vary in length from 500 to 1500 words. Other things may go in a different direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Now the question is if such a bi-weekly schedule is tenable? Can we / do we want to have one such story every other week?
If we could get 4 people to contribute once per month we would be in a good spot to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Do we only want opinion/analysis* pieces? I'm leaning towards yes, since news sources are aplenty. But also, so are tech pundits, so…
Opinion/analysis? Yes. And maybe short stories?

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-06-26, 18:16

How many words do pictures count for?
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chucker
 
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2019-06-26, 18:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
If we could get 4 people to contribute once per month we would be in a good spot to start.
Nice. Yup.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2019-06-26, 18:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
How many words do pictures count for?
12

But for you we'll make an exception and call it 1500!
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