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I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm not sure I understand how they plan to hit their price points with a battery that large with such small economies of scale on their battery production versus Tesla. At this point, it's just promises. They have to deliver. |
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Sneaky Punk
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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Do you have any idea what a 200 kWh battery costs?
Tesla tops out at 100 kWh, even on models that cost $150k and with their enormous economies of scale and manufacturing experience for battery production |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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So is this thread EV only or can we discuss the sexy new Bronco?
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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Sneaky Punk
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Not knowing what Tesla views a healthy profit margin, it's hard to say if it matters or not. Tesla is likely also more concerned about weight, than GM is with the Hummer EV. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Also, GM is using a very different battery than Tesla, which may or may not cost more or less. This feels more like a Corvette ZR1 type project than anything else. Made in small numbers, very expensive, aimed at the price-is-no-object end of the market, very desirable, etc. And that big battery is likely a $10,000-$20,000 upgrade, just as the big battery is with Tesla. The sexy new Bronco is … sexy! Very nice styling. If it wasn't a Ford, I would get drooly. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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The fact you think the Hummer and the Bronco look cool and sexy says everything.
Similar arguments have been made for a decade plus now about Tesla vs whatever American auto manufacturers have thrown at them and repeatedly it has proven to be wrong. GM isn’t committed to this at all. They just want you to think they are. And I don’t think they are in a position to be selling expensive vehicles at a loss when the competition is quickly outpacing them and they haven’t been able to show any evidence they can turn the corner and join the 21st century. Last edited by Brave Ulysses : 2020-10-24 at 23:10. |
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Sneaky Punk
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The only Tesla owner I know personally (a client) recently dumped the car (model S) because it was so difficult and time consuming to get fixed now that the dealers are closed. The car was gone for over a month because the retracting door handles didn't work. Not cool. That was just the last straw for him, and otherwise he loved the car.
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*AD SPACE FOR SALE*
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland-ish, OH
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My cousin has owned 2 Teslas so far. Had a Model X and then got a 3. Had nothing but great experiences with them so far.
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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On the forums I frequent constant complaining how Mary Barra is ruining GM with her EV push and abandoning the ICE and performance cars with V8's and how that will doom GM cause people want V8's. giggity |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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Most of the time my X needs service it’s done in my garage and handled without any issue via the Tesla app and text message. In 2.5 years of ownership the only maintenance costs have been tires and windshield wiper blades. |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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Sneaky Punk
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Low repair is a big incentive for an EV, but here in Canada the model 3 starts at $52k before taxes, so I’m not even considering a Tesla. If it had better range I’d go for a Leaf, but as it stands that just won’t work. Won’t touch a KIA or American auto maker junk with a ten foot pole. Personally I’ll be sticking with Toyota Hybrids for a long time yet, I’ve had no problems and no needlessly easy to break junk that I don’t need (retracting door handles... ). |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Tesla has been doing a good job of appealing to the luxury buyer, and their targeting in that segment helps them in a few ways.
1.)Higher prices help absorb the cost of a decent battery, which helps with range anxiety, and (2.) luxury segment likely has more short term leasing than the rest of the market. Customer trading in for a new model every three years masks longevity concerns. I'd argue that a budget conscious buyer will be more concerned about battery performance in years 8,9,10. Someone needs to keep a running total cost of ownership meter for different lease and or ownership periods. I don't want to do all the math on comparing an average ICE vs EV, but I'd like one as a reference. Let's take me. I've been driving about 25,000-35,000km/year at about 10L/100km for the past decade. That's 300,000km; 30,000L of fuel at about $1/L... Jeezuz, I've spent $30K on regular unleaded in the past 10 years! What I need to know is how much is a replacement battery? How long does it last? And, how much does it cost to charge it up to cover those same 300,000KM over the next ten years? I've read estimates that at contemporary "fuel" prices, EV costs about 1/8th the price per Km vs ICE, but I don't think this entirely accurate to the real cost of electricity, I'd put it closer to 1/6th based on the usual power company pricing shenanigans... $30,000 in unleaded vs $6,000 in electricity leaves $24,000 for battery replacement costs, not factoring in other maintenance issues... ......................................... |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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But, those other maintenance costs are equally significant. Again, my only out of pocket maintenance cost for my Model X since September 2018 has been one set of new tires, and one set of new wiper blades. The brake pads still look like they are brand new despite living in the rockies and towing a trailer with my model X.... regenerative braking is pretty cool and saves money. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Can't I like the Teslas and the other brands?
I think the new Broncos are sexy as hell but I can't justify buying one. The new Hummer EV is sexy but a luxury - aimed right at the Tesla truck buyer. That leaves me out. ... |
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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Except The “new” hummer EV is a fake. https://www.thedrive.com/news/37226/...-hummer-ev-yet |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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The 3 and Y are the new additions to the family. They're the 3 series BMW, or whatever Mercedes and Lexus is selling in the segment. Saying that Tesla isn't a luxury brand is like saying a Mercedes isn't a luxury SUV because it isn't a Rolls Cullinan... It's not all about price, but the intersect of price, segmentation, features and desirability. Apple is also a luxury brand of a different sort - typically called a "lifestyle" brand. Quote:
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Sneaky Punk
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Battery replacement anxiety might be a real thing, but the batteries can and do last a long time. Hybrids tell us they can, when used a fair bit. My 2008 Camry Hybrid (August 2007 Build date) still has the original battery with no sign of problems, albeit it is not a lithium battery pack.
That said look at the trouble early Leaf owners are in, five years old and batteries are dying and it’s basically impossible to get a new one. Owners are told, “just buy a new car”. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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The 2022 Honda Civic has leaked and I dug up this old thread so that I could specifically rant about how bad the hood makes this car look – specifically the way it meets closest to the firewall. It's awful.
I don't know why this bothers me so much, but it really does. ... |
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Sneaky Punk
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The Civic has looked ugly for a long time now, so does it really matter? The oversized grill stuff that is popular right now, on all cars, is getting just plain silly. Makes me appreciate the absence of them on the electric cars.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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Also... does the average Civic buyer care? It's a good-value car that can take a couple hundred thousand miles without flinching.
It's a car for people who don't want to worry about their car very much. Unrelated, I just got back from a photography workshop in the Big Bend area. Due to covid I followed the guide in my car (he had a Ram truck). He didn't think I'd be able to get my little Subaru over some of the backroads we took chasing birds but I made it no problem. I'm thinking about upgrading the tires to a set of Falken Wildpeak A/Ts and maybe throwing a set of skid plates underneath to increase the offroad capability of my Crosstrek. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Yep. If I was going to buy another small car, the Civic would be very high on my list. Cheap, good gas mileage, and reliable.
Sorry, Drew, but the hood-line would not be a factor in my purchasing decision. On a Vette, or a Maserati, or some other $60,000+ car? yes. On a full-size truck? yes. We had a Ford Fiesta, and it was ugly as hell. But, it got GREAT gas mileage (although it had a defective clutch and we had to use the Lemon Law to get rid of it). Point being, low-cost high MPG cars are usually pretty bland. I mean, other than Tesla, the electrics and hybrids are all pretty fugly*. * I haven't seen them all, so don't kill me! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Sneaky Punk
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The 2G Leaf isn't that bad, for a compact. The Bolt? The G2 is better, but still an ugly car.
If I was buying for looks I'd get a Porsche 911, most cars under $50-80k look like copy cat blobs anyway. Looks just are not high on the list of things I care about in a vehicle, I'm with kscherer on the reliability and gas mileage. I drive the most "boring" of all cars after all, a Camry Hybrid. Feels good with a nice set of tires though. |
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9" monochrome
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
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Seeing this thread bumped, I thought I’d chime in with an anecdote - in the realms of something now owns me, but it’s something I’ll never own.
This week, I was fortunate enough to be invited on an AMG drive day (courtesy of another company) and all I can say is the E63s is beautifully brutal in all the right ways. Looks and cabin fitout are superb. MB UX fantastic. But the performance was the kicker. The takeoff was like what I can only imagine a jet fighter is like. It’s amazing this car only requires a driver’s licence. I’m not really a car person, but I was impressed! https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/...g-e63-s-review |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I'm about to eat dinner, but 4.0 litre twin turbo??
Yikes. ... |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Ended up coming to our senses and bought a boring, reliable 2021 Toyota Rav4 hybrid. Coincidentally had the exact trim, options, and color we wanted, so it worked out. Also got a few thousand $ off because the dealer had incorrectly listed it as a 2020 (they honored the incorrect price, but we had to buy it that day). Seen a man standin' over a dead dog lyin' by the highway in a ditch He's lookin' down kinda puzzled pokin' that dog with a stick |
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Sneaky Punk
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Hows the RAV4 Hybrid doing? I'm thinking of upgrading to one in the next year or two.
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