[Ryan]

I will take the shot the first moment I can get it. Sign me up.

[PB PM]

Nobody is going to convince anti-vaccination types to take something that could save their life. They will always find something, whether it be made up (by someone), or half truth, that will fit their ideology. That's fine, that is their choice. The thing is, people seem to forget that in life there are consequences for the choices they make. The rest of society can choose not to allow them to take part. It goes both ways.

[Kickaha]

Absolutely. I don't care *WHY* someone chooses to voluntarily opt out of helping protect and care for other people around them, they can be opted out of society at the same time.

No schooling, no shopping, just... go elsewhere and don't be a danger to others. Go in peace, but just for the love of god, go.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 I'm not a scientist personally, and I don't know the ins and out of vaccine production. But I didn't say the vaccine was made with the cell lines, I said they were tested on them. And I believe that is completely true. From a culture where we outlaw testing of consumer products on animals, it is kind of strange to be arguing that it's totally kosher to be sourcing cell lines from the remains of aborted children.

did you even read your linked document? The most common vaccines are 'totally kosher' according to the pro-life organisation blah blah.

Cell lines are not living people; they are for the most part not derived from living people (aside from HeLa, which has a truly unfortunate and racist story behind it).

I doubt the unborn child has consented to the donation. And when you say it's fine because the "owner" of the property has consented, it certainly has the ring of the kind of thing they used to say during slavery. It's either a human life or it isn't, and since large numbers of people believe that it is one, isn't it reckless to be poking them in the eye needlessly when we need the vaccine to be widely accepted?

Tissue from which these lines were derived were taken from dead organisms. It isn't life at all.

One last thing: Was the tissue really obtained after the "thing", as you put it, had died?

Yes they were dead. Even that opinion piece acknowledges that they were extracted within five minutes after death, the story that the author invents is a hypothetical that did not happen about a c-section. Notably the language used in that quote isn't saying at all that this actually happened.

[tomoe]

Mom also got notified today for a vaccine appointment. Makes me happy to know that both parents and my grandma are all getting.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by PB PM Nobody is going to convince anti-vaccination types to take something that could save their life.

Not everyone who questions the Covid vaccines is an anti-vaxxer. Certainly pro-life groups have more than a passing interest in the health care system (and they own a lot of ultrasound machines). Anti-vaxxers overall have tended to be more secular than religious.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky did you even read your linked document? The most common vaccines are 'totally kosher' according to the pro-life organisation blah blah. Cell lines are not living people; they are for the most part not derived from living people (aside from HeLa, which has a truly unfortunate and racist story behind it). Tissue from which these lines were derived were taken from dead organisms. It isn't life at all. Yes they were dead. Even that opinion piece acknowledges that they were extracted within five minutes after death, the story that the author invents is a hypothetical that did not happen about a c-section. Notably the language used in that quote isn't saying at all that this actually happened.

Yes, I get your points. (Hey, the PDF has been disappeared.)

I'm just looking at some of the arguments I'm hearing from pro-lifers and concerns being relayed on the comment threads of some Christian sites. Thanks to our government's spectacular bungling of the vaccine file, I won't need to make a decision on taking it for several months. The consensus in the overall Christian community seems to be that despite whatever distant links the science may have had to abortion, taking the vaccine is still pro-life as it will definitely save lives.

But my initial point was that abortion is just a bit of a contentious issue right now all over the world. If a significant minority of the pro-life community decides to boycott, herd immunity is toast in many places. A publicly-funded vaccine development program should have steered clear of anything that could have made taking the jab contentious, for all our sakes.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Anti-vaxxers overall have tended to be more secular than religious.

Christian Scientists would disagree. But there's an overall direct correlation with anti-Vax sentiments in North America and Religiosity, and this can be directly tied to Christian fundamentalism bleeding into politics and the admixture then rejecting scientific consensus and facts as subservient to their political-'religious' will (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...78023120977727 ).

There is no major religious group that outright rejects vaccines (with exceptions notable in sects and cults within these), and so the perversion we see in NA is weird.

[PB PM]

Every anti-vaxxer I’ve met is a fundamentalist Christian, or someone who grew up in that setting. Small data set no doubt, but that is my experience. I also know Christian’s who are first in line for vaccinations (I know many who work in the medical field), so I’m not going to try and say this is some black and white issue.

To me it’s not a religious issue, but an issue of selfishness. People who refuse to take steps to help those around them are selfish, no if ands or buts about it. I don’t care about your moral objections. If you object to the method used to make vaccines, then work to support companies that develop them in a way that you approve of, don’t just opt out.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Dr. Bobsky Christian Scientists would disagree. But there's an overall direct correlation with anti-Vax sentiments in North America and Religiosity, and this can be directly tied to Christian fundamentalism bleeding into politics and the admixture then rejecting scientific consensus and facts as subservient to their political-'religious' will (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...78023120977727 ). There is no major religious group that outright rejects vaccines (with exceptions notable in sects and cults within these), and so the perversion we see in NA is weird.

Yes, there's a concentration in smaller cults and sects that offshoot from Christianity, and I expect from the Scientologists etc.
I'm honestly not sure what the Amish think about vaccinations in general. I'm guessing they're not big on mandatory Covid vaccines.

I think the issue here is that secular or religious groups that lean towards authoritarian leadership or ideals tend to be anti-vax. Because secular humanists see the Church and the Bible as authoritarian, they expect that Christians would be heavily anti-vax.

Originally Posted by PB PM Every anti-vaxxer I’ve met is a fundamentalist Christian...

And this idea persists, although no one can seem to name any major figure in North American Christendom that is telling people not to vaccinate. There's plenty of hesitancy and skepticism about the expedited process, but that's not unique to Christianity.

Most of the leading voices in our culture that have fed the anti-vax movement aren't Christian.

[Dr. Bobsky]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Most of the leading voices in our culture that have fed the anti-vax movement aren't Christian.

Except most are actually Christian

And every anti-vax argument I see online has some Christian concept behind it akin to the Christian Scientists arguments that praying can make all things better.

Antivaxers are not authoritarian -- if anything their belief system exudes the opposite message. They are anti-Science. And that is why secular humanists think that Christians are a stone's throw from being anti-Vax...

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Frank777 And this idea persists, although no one can seem to name any major figure in North American Christendom that is telling people not to vaccinate.

In my case it’s not a idea, it’s a fact. All the anti-vaxxers I know are self proclaimed Christian’s, typically from extremely conservative backgrounds. Don’t know any from more liberal denominations. I doubt many pastors would say it in public anyway, for fear of the backlash. I’ve yet to personally meet a anti-vaxxer who was a pastor, but I avoided super conservative churches. Doesn’t mean that many anti-vaxxers aren’t Christian’s though. I don’t doubt there are secular anti-vaxxers, I just don’t know any myself, and I don’t pay attention to the personal life of Hollywood folks.

[Yontsey]

I was kinda hoping I'd get a fast pass since I had a major medical situation 2 years ago but I doubt that happens. I'm not upset. I go back to the doc in April for another checkup so I'll inquire then.

[Ryan]

I got my shot yesterday! And then felt like shit for most of today. Worth it.

[Yontsey]

Originally Posted by Yontsey I was kinda hoping I'd get a fast pass since I had a major medical situation 2 years ago but I doubt that happens. I'm not upset. I go back to the doc in April for another checkup so I'll inquire then.

Got my first shot this morning. Next shot coming April 28th. Just in time to attend the NFL Draft in Cleveland this year.

[Kickaha]

Today WA opened up the floodgates of eligibility, and on Apr 15th, it's anyone over 16.

Two days ago I called around until I found a hospital willing to let us get appointments for tomorrow, despite not being formally eligible until today.

My wife got her first shot on Monday, the boys and I tomorrow. A month from now, I might start breathing easily again.

[709]

Got my first jab a couple of days ago with my second scheduled for the 19th, and Anna's age/health group gets called up starting this Monday. So, yeah, starting to see that glimmer of light coming from the end of the tunnel.

[kieran]

Wife and I were fully vaccinated a few weeks ago. Both of us qualified due to our jobs.

Makes me breathe a bit easier, but I've still got a 2 year old to worry about and that concerns me still.

[turtle]

I love seeing all of you guys get vaccinated. It really does mean as a society that we are closer to the pandemic ending.

[Brad]

Oh yeah! I got my first Pfizer shot last week and am scheduled to get my second in two more weeks. Other than having to drive 45 minutes to a CVS far across the other side of Raleigh thanks to terrible distribution availability in North Carolina, my experience of the first dose was super easy and pleasant.

ten outta ten would vaccinate again.

No ill side-effects here from the first one. I'm very curious if or how I'll react to the second dose, which is when most people have some kind of reaction if they'd not been previously exposed to the virus, because my immune system is all kinds of broken. I was regularly seeing an oncologist/hematologist a few years ago, and after numerous visits and blood draws and tests, all I got was a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and best wishes don't come back unless your vitals get even worse.

My wife and I still plan to keep up the same stay-at-home routines and outdoor mask habits until this whole thing is squashed regardless of our vaccination status. I don't want to take the risk of being in the population where the vaccine's efficacy is diminished.

[drewprops]

I think I'm 3 weeks past my 2nd and man has it been a party here, staying home all the time like usual LOL.

QUESTION
I didn't really have much of a reaction to either of my shots (House Pfizer) and I sure wish there was a known correlation between response to vaccination and level of protection, but am sure there isn't.


...

[709]

I had a mild soreness the next day, like somebody had surprised me with a "Slug Bug Red!", but that was it. Overall felt good and a bit relieved just to get the vaccine ball rolling.

One thing I hope happens with all this virus trauma is that it normalizes wearing a mask for protection. I actually like wearing a mask out shopping, because let's face it, people are fucking gross. Flu season? I would totally wear a mask everywhere during that month. Taking the public transport downtown and back? Mask. DMV? Mask. Undercooking fish? Believe it or not, mask. Overcooking chicken, also mask. Undercook/overcook.

Seriously though, I'll be making it a part of my lifestyle, other gross humans be damned.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by kieran Wife and I were fully vaccinated a few weeks ago. Both of us qualified due to our jobs.

I qualified by being fat.

Off for shot #2 this morning.

[Elysium]

ME is opening to 16+ next week (some appointment portals are already open). For a state that is heavily dependent on tourism this will be key to a recovery year.

I’m going to try and get a shot locally, but the girlfriend and I may trek 1-2 hours north to get into the more rural clinics that generally seem to have better availability.

[_Ω_]

Anyone got any insight on how long the vaccines are effective?

[drewprops]

In the past few days ABC reported that one of the vaccines (Pfizer?) was found to be 95% effective at 6 months.


...

[Yontsey]

There's no way they could know considering it's only been around 6 months lol

[kscherer]

Well, we know it's good for at least two days.

[PB PM]

People get carried away, it's not a 100% guarantee.

[Frank777]

We really should stop calling this a vaccine.
It makes people believe it's a cure, like a guarantee you won't get polio after the shot.

The truth seems to be closer to the idea that we're all going to get Covid-19 and its derivatives at some point.
I've read that some of the seasonal flu strains we get annually descend from the Spanish flu a century ago.

The shot is just to build some resistance to it, so you won't end up dead or in an ICU. It is definitely worth getting.

Although I'm partial to the mRNA choices, as opposed to the Astrazeneca ones that the U.S. gov't has so charitably sent to us.

[Matsu]

Here’s some stuff we won’t use ourselves. Thanks for being our greatest neighbours.

That 12 months ago the Trudeau gang failed to interpret the likely protectionist reactions of nations everywhere, is pretty short sighted... I mean seriously, who thought any politician was going to ship vaccines across a border until their own needs were addressed? Particularly the US, who’d given ample evidence over the last 4 years - and longer - that they aren’t exactly the most reliable ally. Granted, some times there’s no choice - Canada may have lacked the production capacity, but it probably would have been advisable to immediately set about building the capacity and securing licensing arrangements that would allow domestic production under licence or outright IP theft should deals not be negotiable. Considering the billions mobilized on CERB, a significant portion of which was carelessly misdirected, some early and aggressive funding towards medical manufacturing facilities, perhaps partnered with some of Canada's rather large generic drug enterprises, would have had us in position to home brew vaccines?