[Mac+]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Well I sent Tim an email anyway. Yes, I know it gets vetted by underlings - and winds up in the crank stash - but let me have my fun today.

I also sent Tim an email! Last year, I was trying to press for an Apple sports band. I felt it might be on the cards, similar to the iPod, mini, nano, shuffle product evolution. Alas, not yet.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Mac+ All good. It’s nice to return to nova and read the back and forth. Any mock-ups Paul? You know… for old times’s sake.

Not really, although - funny you should ask - I suppose a simple kind of mock-up appears in this very thread, one page ago (page 8), where I lay out my ideas for a more well-defined, easier to research/shop for Mac product grid. And, further down, some Apple displays to accompany them. Three images in all (scroll down even more after the initial Mac layout idea).

Go to page 8, scroll down a bit and have a look. More of an overall idea/approach vs. any sort of detailed, from-the-ground-up product idea. But I did draw all the stuff you see from scratch, the type/layout, etc. So, technically, it’s kind of a mock-up?

[Mac+]

Ah, thanks! Just catching up with this.

I actually like the idea of a 25th anniversary iMac, but I tend to romanticise the past. I do also recall that during the “we’re lost and floundering” era of Apple they released the TAM.

The product matrix on P8 makes good sense to me. Appreciate your work.

[psmith2.0]

Thank you That’s very nice of you to say.

I don’t do as much of that anymore, but once in a while an idea or a “what if…?” hits that I’ll want to flesh out and see. I always enjoy bringing that to life.

Doing the above stuff a week or so ago, I realized/learned how slick and intuitive Affinity Designer’s approach to gradients is, vs. Illustrator. So doing these things almost always winds up being a nice learning/“aha…I see!” session as I create stuff from scratch in an app that’s still somewhat new to me (two years in AD vs. 25+ with AI). But I’m getting there!

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Mac+ I do also recall that during the “we’re lost and floundering” era of Apple they released the TAM.

Kind of a poorer execution of the iMac! I believe the iMac G3 folks would’ve liked to do a TFT, but it wasn’t really practical at a sane price point. The G4 then got it, and today’s M1 iMac is perhaps as close to the TAM vision as it gets.

[psmith2.0]

I still can't quite get over how thin the M1 iMac is. Anytime I see "real life" pics or YouTube footage/reviews, it just seems impossibly wispy. We spent years thinking it was pretty impressive how they "glommed on the guts" on the iMac G5, and then all the variations of the aluminum/glass models for ~14 years, as they slimmed/tapered down over time.

And then, BAM..."It's like a really big laptop!"

One of the things all the YouTube reviewers commented on/noticed, upon lifting it out of its box, was just how insanely light it was. I know - and believe - thin and light isn't a hardcore requirement for something meant to sit on your desk and not be carried around with you every day, but it's kinda cool they managed to do it and with no real hit/penalty(?) to performance.

If you can achieve those two things without blatantly hobbling something or taking things away to reach those goals, go for it. I'm certainly not "anti-thin", in and of itself. It was just the Jony Ive implementation, to where form sometimes seemed to cruelly smack function in the face, that I ever had a problem with.

I can't wait to see one of these things in real life. I may be in a position Tuesday that I'll be passing near a local Best Buy. I may stop in and see if they've got one of these on display in their little Apple section. Seeing one in real life, and using it for 5-10 minutes, might wind up being what pushes me over the edge, especially now that these current-generation refurbs are available.

"Damn, I need to go home and get that silver $1,439 refurb now...".

[chucker]

Right.

The 2012-2020 slim unibody design just felt awkward to me. You got the drawbacks of less flexibility, without much of a real benefit.

The M1 design is a more honest design. It isn’t curved or tapered; it fully embraces what it is.

[PB PM]

Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker Right. The 2012-2020 slim unibody design just felt awkward to me. You got the drawbacks of less flexibility, without much of a real benefit. The M1 design is a more honest design. It isn’t curved or tapered; it fully embraces what it is.

Originally Posted by PB PM Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?

It looked nice overall, but I hated that 2012 redesign from day one (and wrote about it here, I remember). It indeed was a false, "poser" thing, only appreciated from 1-2 specific angles/viewing positions. Otherwise, from the side, it looked like it was six months pregnant with a baby iMac. The whole thing just felt pointless and like a parlor trick/forced illusion.

"Stand right here - don't move! - and look how thin my computer is!"



"Yeah, but when I move two feet to the right, it looks a little goofy and 'who asked'. So what's the point? Who, exactly, is this supposed to impress...house guests who stand on this one taped mark on your floor the entire time they're here?"

Been asking that since 2012...

And since that redesign also somehow spelled the end for user RAM upgrades for the 21.5" model (but not the 27") was also another bad outcome, and illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. To achieve some false sense of thinness that won't hold up if your house guest walks past your desk at the wrong angle/position, buyers of the 21.5" iMac were suddenly forced to pay Apple's ridiculous RAM upgrade pricing on day of purchase, knowing that was their one and only shot to do so. And, Apple being Apple, they neither outfitted the 21.5" models with double RAM stock or lowered/adjusted their BTO pricing to sane levels.

So, to me, it was a classic "screw you...whaddya gonna do?" move.

"We're gonna give it a pointless redesign that doesn't really matter/hold up, we're gonna weld it shut so you can't upgrade your own RAM at sensible pricing and we ain't lowering the price on shit...you'll pay completely unreasonable prices for 4-8GB RAM - for years to come! - and you'll like it. You're welcome."

Yeah, this M1 iMac is more like "okay, this is a legit redesign, and not a fake-out approach. Look at this thing from any angle you want, and it's truly thin."

That's probably the reason this model appeals to me more than the 2012-2020 one ever did. It's an honest "look how thin I am!" design, and any praise for said thinness is legit and earned. No ginned-up fakery or pointless rounding/tapering (only appreciated from specific angles/distances) involved. The M1 is 100% "yep, that's absolutely thin and sleek...no caveats or catches. You got me!"

I realize they couldn't have done that, pre-M1. But they didn't have to do the 2012 thing either.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM Yes, the M1 iMac looks so much better than the curved/humped back of the 2012-2020 models. I can only assume that hump was there to make room for the HDD's the some of them were shipping with?

Yeah, plus cooling.

(The iMac Pro, which never existed in HDD configuration, used that room for a much better cooling system instead.)

But, this really felt like a solution in search of a problem. If you can't make it thinner without a weird hump like that, and if people don't really notice the thinness much anyway, consider not making it thinner.

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Yeah, this M1 iMac is more like "okay, this is a legit redesign, and not a fake-out approach. Look at this thing from any angle you want, and it's truly thin."

Right.

It still has the same drawbacks, in a way — no RAM upgrades for you.

But it does have the benefit of being an all-around nice look, no matter the angle.

The nerd in me wants it to me thicker in order to allow RAM and SSD upgrades, but almost anyone would never need that, and I'm not sure how much thicker (and clunkier) it'd have to be to allow for that.

[psmith2.0]

...and I'd be okay with no user RAM upgrades (been used to that for a good while now), if the Apple pricing were just a little more in line with what you'd get at Crucial, OWC, Tiger, that Egg place, etc. Doesn't have to be exact - Apple will always charge more Just Because™, but shit...$200 for 8GB (to take the current 27" Intel iMac, which still allows user upgrades, from its stock 8GB to 16GB) seems a little steep in any solar system.

OWC sells that single 8GB DIMM, meant for the current-generation 27" iMac, for $44.99.

But they never seem to budge on that one component. Unless Apple is truly using some special, high-end, ultra-tested, quality RAM (and maybe they are?), it seems like there's some wiggle room there on their end. Especially since they went and welded things shut at nobody's request/insistence.

Meet me halfway, Apple. Throw me something resembling a bone on the RAM BTO front. Do that, and I don't care what you weld shut. Deal?

[chucker]

Dell does the same thing. Pricey first-party accessories isn't an atypical strategy, but it hurts doubly when going third-party isn't an option at all.

(Not to mention if you do need to upgrade after the fact, even the first party isn't an option.)

[psmith2.0]

Exactly. So make it slightly less painful on the day-of-purchase.

[Frank777]

The longer this wait for the larger iMac takes, the more I think Apple is positioning it solely as a high-end machine.

24" is good enough for consumers, 30" for SOHO and business applications. A merger of the 27" iMac and iMac Pro ideas.

If so, the RAM pretty much has to be upgradable, not so?
People running higher end business and scientific apps are going to want more than 16-32GB.

[psmith2.0]

You’d think. And Apple’s pricing to go to 32GB and beyond is insane.

[psmith2.0]

Good news. I guess that weird, arbitrary "online exclusive" approach didn't pan out as they'd imagined?

Makes no sense to hold some colors back from certain outlets. That just annoys customers.

I should be able to walk into any Apple Store and get whatever color iMac I want (assuming they're in stock). But holding the orange, purple, etc. back is silly. Now they're not. Orange, while gorgeous, isn't special, in and of itself.

But maybe it was a manufacturing issue? They took longer to get lots of the orange, purple and yellow ones made in real numbers, but now they've caught up? Maybe they weren't as sure about orange, purple and yellow so they just didn't make huge batches of them at first? Might be something like that.

Whatever the reason...good. All colors, all stores (and, hopefully, third-party joints as well, eventually).

[kscherer]

I suspect the holdout had to do more with manufacturing issues than inventory decisions. There have been certain models that are taking us a month or longer to get.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Good news. I guess that weird, arbitrary "online exclusive" approach didn't pan out as they'd imagined? Makes no sense to hold some colors back from certain outlets. That just annoys customers. I should be able to walk into any Apple Store and get whatever color iMac I want (assuming they're in stock). But holding the orange, purple, etc. back is silly. Now they're not. Orange, while gorgeous, isn't special, in and of itself.

I don't think there was any spite involved, just difficulty of stock-keeping.

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Maybe they weren't as sure about orange, purple and yellow so they just didn't make huge batches of them at first?

That would be my guess.

[psmith2.0]

It's the only thing that makes sense and doesn't make them look silly. For whatever reason, they must've figured "silver, blue, green and pink(?!) will be the popular draws/sellers...let's make a boatload of those, and then those that we believe are the three quirkier, niche colors - orange, purple and yellow - we'll ramp up afterwards to get tons of those out there as autumn nears.

Yeah, it probably is that. Just glad to see it finally happen, whatever the reason.

Might've been nice to hear it on the front end, but companies don't like to announce/say things that make them look lacking or "not meeting demand" in any sort of way, so...

It just looked like they might've been arbitrarily holding a few colors back from retail for four-plus months.

[Frank777]

The new iMac has been out more than 3 months now, and I still have yet to see one myself in-person.
That's the first time that's happened since the machine launched in 1998.

It might be that I'm getting too old and jaded to care about making a special trip to the Apple Store.

But I guess I'll just blame it on the pandemic.

[kscherer]

I've never been in our local Apple Store, and it's been here for 10+ years. I could care less about that crap-fest.

Fortunately, I work for an Apple Premier Partner (17 years, now), and I've seen all seven colors in person. I've been sitting in front of yellow for three months, and I love it. Were I to get a 24" iMac right now, it would be that color. By far the most pleasing iMac I've ever sat in front of, and I've sat in front* of all of them.

* Not at work, mind you, but at some point. I owned a Bondi Blue G3 and a 15" G4, and saw all of the G3 colors at the Comp USA before it imploded. At MacLife, I've sold every model since the G4.

[psmith2.0]

I finally got out to our big mall/retail zone today (shoot me, please...I'm reminded of why I never go out there) and visited the SimplyMac store at the mall and saw my first 24" M1 iMac in real life.

A few observations (because you know I'm gonna have some):

1) They had just one demo unit, a blue one with just the two ports (so the entry-level 7/8 model). No stock to sell ("but we can order for you..." I can order for me too, through this place called "Apple"). Why I'd ever order through some third-party resellers offering no discount or customization/BTO is a head-scratcher. How many sales do they get that way? Do people looking to buy truly not know they can just go to Apple.com? If they had stacks of stuff there, ready for immediate, walk-out-with-it-today sale, I could understand the appeal. But, as it stands, it's just a demo center.

2) The real-life colors - well, the blue anyway - in no way match the photos I've seen - both Apple PR and candid pics/video from reviews, YouTube unboxing, etc. - since April/May. The blue was nothing like what I expected/had in my head, so I suspect all the others, aside from the silver, are the same? It seemed more muted or something, not quite so vibrant/garish as the pics at Apple's site seem to convey. Really makes me want to see an orange and green one in real life now.

3) It didn't look as huge as I imagined. I'd been on a 20" display for ~11 years(!) and somehow I just thought a 24" iMac would seem huge. It didn't (and I know it's really only 23.5"), but it looked nice and compact in a way I wasn't expecting. It would look lovely sitting on this desk.

4) Yes, it is insanely thin. The display looked great. My first hands-on time with Big Sur (I liked it). It was light! I picked it up twice, despite a couple of "WTF are you doing?!" glances from employees.

5) It looked great, and I'd love/hope to own a refurb 16/256 silver model before 2021 winds down. I believe - no, I know - I would be very happy with a 24" iMac as my daily personal/work machine. I'd love to see how Affinity Designer and Photo run on it!

6) The store overcharges on accessories and knick-knacks (cables and all other Apple-branded stuff in the white boxes), but also all third-party cables, iPhone cases, iPad accessories, etc.).

7) The staff was straight out of central casting. Of what, I'll leave to your imagination. The school dance scene from Sixteen Candles, with Anthony Michael Hall, John Cusack and their crew standing against the wall, sprang to mind.

8) Due to #1, #7 and #8, the chances of me ever setting foot back in there again are slim-to-none. Oddly enough, just across the road at Best Buy, their tiny little Apple-devoted "store within a store" seems a bit more on-the-ball and dialed-in than an entire store dedicated to Apple/Macs.

[PB PM]

Sounds like ever third party Apple dealer I’ve visited. Apple sets the price and they aren’t big like Amazon or Best Buy so they cannot offer discounts. They over charge on third party add-on because that is the only source of profit they’ve got. At least the ones I’ve been to could do BTO upgrades, but they had order them in, there is no way they could stock them the way and Apple Store can. Once Apple opened their own stores and locked down repairs, third party dealers became a waste of time if you have an Apple Store in town. I still use one for computers because I don’t like the idea of the shipping company dropping a $1000+ device sitting on my door step half the day.

[psmith2.0]

That white bezel didn’t look bad/weird to me. It’s more of an off-white super, super light grey so it was “softer” than I expected.

It’s hard to believe there’s a full-on computer in that thing. As chucker(?) says upthread it’s an “honest” thin…no tricks or “it only looks so from certain angles”. I kept looking at it from the side, amazed at just how it’s gone from that big round jellybean to this barely-there sliver of aluminum.

Can’t wait to own one of these.

[Frank777]

I guess I might buy one, although the day after I downgrade to a 24-inch screen, Apple will introduce the larger-screen version.

[kieran]

The thinness is really something you need to see in person in order to understand how thin it really is.

It's basically like a giant iPad Pro in regards to thickness. Just amazing how thin it is and it's a full computer running MacOS.

[Frank777]

But it's an iMac. My iMac has been sitting in front of me daily for a decade.

I don't really care how thin an iMac is. It doesn't move, except when I need to plug something in.

When I needed a thin and light machine to move around, I bought a MacBook Air.

[psmith2.0]

I’m not saying it’s a have-to thing. It’s just neat/impressive that it is. Yes, desktops don’t have to be thin and light. But this one is, with no obvious penalty/downside (no hit in battery life, no thermal corner-painting, etc.).

It’s almost as though Jony Ive had nothing whatsoever to do with it!

[chucker]

Well, poor user serviceability is arguably a downside.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, but we should be used to that by now. It isn’t new, or exclusive, to the 24” iMac.