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T-Mobile's new rate plans - Number Four no more?


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T-Mobile's new rate plans - Number Four no more?
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-25, 18:13

The smallest nationwide US carrier, T-Mobile, has finally spilled the beans on their dramatically new rate structure, with a heavy focus on getting users off contracts and onto unlimited plans. It's kind of complicated, so here's how it works.

There are two main times of post-paid plans. The first is Even More. These follow the traditional cellular model - you sign a two-year contract and receive a discount on the phone that is reflected in (permanently) higher monthly rates. The new rates are lower than they were before, and pretty good - T-Mobile now matches Sprint with an "unlimited everything" plan for $99. T-Mobile is really making a big push toward unlimited plans, as getting unlimited minutes ($59) is only $20 more than getting 500 minutes, so I really don't know who's going to choose the interim 1,000-minute tier ($49). And there isn't even an option for getting fewer than unlimited texts, which is only $10.

Even More is pretty competitive. Take, say, a base G1 plan compared to a base iPhone plan. The base iPhone plan is $70 and includes 450 minutes and zero texts. The base G1 plan is $79 and includes 500 minutes (no rollover though) and unlimited texts. Not bad at all, but not at all earth-shattering. But remember when I said there were now two types of post-paid plans?

The other is Even More Plus. This is a pretty big shake-up because it's contract-free, like smaller regional carriers like Cricket and metroPCS. And since you're not paying back a handset subsidy, the rates are lower - $10 lower for the Talk and Talk+Text plans, and $20 lower for the Talk+Text+Data plans. This means, yes, you can get unlimited everything for just $79.

But what about handsets? A downside of carriers like Cricket and metroPCS is that they really can't offer ZOMG Free Phones!!1, and that even a decent feature phone can run you several hundred dollars, since you're paying for it outright. While you're still paying for the phone with Even More Plus, T-Mobile lets you pay for it in up to 20 interest-free installments.

Let's go back to our G1 example. The G1 is (still) a $400 phone, meaning that if you pay for it over 20 months you're paying...$20 a month. Added to an Even More Plus plan, this comes out to the same as the Even More plan. The difference is, on Even More Plus, once you're done paying for the G1 you're done paying for it - you'll pay less each month (just $59, in the above example!) until you decide you want to get a new phone.

This is way better than typical contract plans - it's not like you get a discount once you're done paying back the device subsidy. Also, with Even More you'd still be on contract for four more months. And let's not forget that with Even More, you're still paying $129 for the G1 up front! All told, you'll be paying over $200 more with Even More before your contract is even up, and then you'll be paying $20 a month more thereafter. To be honest I'm not sure why T-Mobile is even offering the Even More contract system. It will confuse customers, and you always end up paying more. It's probably just so that they can advertise "free phones!"

But Even More Plus is pretty much a steal. Even including the payment for a mid-to-high-end device like the G1 or CLIQ, it matches Sprint's $99 Simply Everything plan, and after you're done paying for the device you save $20 a month - you don't keep paying for the subsidy forever and ever, in the form of higher rates, which always struck me as kind of a scam.

A lot rests on the retail price of the phones, which customers aren't used to seeing and T-Mobile isn't used to advertising. T-Mobile will now have to keep those prices current - lots of times carriers reduce only the on-contract price of a handset and keep the full retail prices the same, which leads to funny things like the new BlackBerry Curve 8520 costing $50 less than the old BlackBerry Bold 8120 (that's a real example, on T-Mobile, now). The on-contract prices of the G1 and MyTouch have been reduced $50 since their launches, but their full retail prices haven't been adjusted.

There are new family plans, which work as you expect - a small discount on the second line with larger discounts on each additional line - along with a few other options, like for people who want data but not text messaging. The "main" data pricing gears heavily towards smartphones; those wanting data on a dumbphone can add a $10 option to a Talk+Text plan and save $20 (Even More) or $10 (Even More Plus) off the cost of the standard smartphone Talk+Text+Data. But T-Mobile really is focusing on smartphones and unlimited talk with these plans; I mean unlimited minutes for only $20 more than 500 minutes is pretty huge.

If T-Mobile gets the iPhone, I know I'm switching, even though the full-retail pricing is bound to be outrageous. Your thoughts?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong

Last edited by Robo : 2009-10-25 at 18:25.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-25, 18:29

I thought T-Mobile, for technical/network reasons beyond my grasp, couldn't get the iPhone? Or was that Verizon?

  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-25, 18:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I thought T-Mobile, for technical/network reasons beyond my grasp, couldn't get the iPhone? Or was that Verizon?

If you were to jailbreak/unlock your iPhone, right now, it would work just fine on T-Mobile. You could take your iPhone onto those $59-$79 Even More Plus plans and be good to go. The only difference is that if you had a 3G iPhone, you wouldn't get 3G - T-Mobile uses the same GSM and HSDPA standards as AT&T, but they were late to the 3G game, meaning they had to settle for 3G bands that were different than anyone else's.

But it's entirely possible that Apple could ship a version of the iPhone with support for T-Mobile's 3G bands - that's no huge deal. T-Mobile (USA) is still a small-ish carrier but if Apple sees them growing (say, with cheaper new rate plans) they might decide it's worth the effort. T-Mobile is actually rolling out a 21 Mbps network that's about three times faster than AT&T's 7.2 Mbps network (which the iPhone 3G S supports), so that could be something too - maybe we'll see an "iPhone 3G T" next year, ha ha.

Verizon (and Sprint) use an entirely different standard than AT&T, T-Mobile, and most of the rest of the world. They use CDMA instead of GSM. It's possible that Apple could decide to re-engineer a CDMA version of the iPhone - companies like BlackBerry do it all the time - but it would be a more significant undertaking than simply adding support for T-Mobile's 3G bands (though one with a larger payoff, since Verizon is huuuge). Personally, I'm not sure we'll ever see a CDMA iPhone - CDMA is sort of dying, since the 4G CDMA standard (UMB) was discontinued after Verizon and Rogers and every other CDMA carrier (save Sprint) said they wanted to switch to GSM's 4G standard, LTE. This means that AT&T and Verizon and T-Mobile will all be one happy LTE family. (Sprint is going off into their own little world, with WiMAX, so we'll probably never see an iPhone on Sprint until they come to their senses...if they don't go under first).

Interestingly, Verizon is going to be one of the first carriers in the world to launch LTE 4G, and they plan to roll it out very rapidly - to their 30 largest markets in 2010 and over their entire network no later than 2013. It's entirely possible we could see an iPhone 4G on Verizon sooner rather than later, though maybe not next year (though a larger, more data-centric Apple device by mid-2010 certainly isn't out of the question...Verizon keeps on pushing up their 4G roll-out for something. ).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-26, 19:31

Unless they buy Metro and Cricket and possibly US Cellular I would count on them remaining number four. These new plans are a letdown. They will keep getting killed on the low end by Verizon based MVNOs and on the higher end by the big players who already have the coverage. The guys back in Germany should be ashamed of themselves for what they've done with this company.
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joveblue
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2009-10-26, 20:03

I'm not sure that there'll be a 4G iPhone until it's available outside the US as well. I'm not sure what Apple's approach to that would be really, but considering they waited a year before releasing the iPhone 3G I can't see them jumping on the 4G bandwagon immediately. I guess a lot of factors will come into play here, like how it affects the battery life, etc...
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-27, 13:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
Unless they buy Metro and Cricket and possibly US Cellular I would count on them remaining number four. These new plans are a letdown. They will keep getting killed on the low end by Verizon based MVNOs
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM
and on the higher end by the big players who already have the coverage. The guys back in Germany should be ashamed of themselves for what they've done with this company.
Last I recall, they're still adding customers each quarter, unlike, say, Sprint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
I'm not sure that there'll be a 4G iPhone until it's available outside the US as well.
This is a valid concern, and one of the reasons why I said I wasn't sure we'd see an LTE iPhone immediately, even if Verizon had the network for it. That said, Rogers (I think) is launching an LTE network almost as soon as Verizon, starting with Vancouver in time for the Olympics.

I don't see Apple launching an "iPhone 4G" as the only improvement for the year, with nothing else to offer for countries with no 4G networks. But this is all (probably) a few years out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue
I'm not sure what Apple's approach to that would be really, but considering they waited a year before releasing the iPhone 3G I can't see them jumping on the 4G bandwagon immediately. I guess a lot of factors will come into play here, like how it affects the battery life, etc...
True, but remember that when Apple released their 2G iPhone they didn't have an App Store and iTunes was WiFi-only. Apple wants to sell as many apps and songs as possible, so they have a vested interest in giving people the fastest possible downloads. Still, I agree that we're more likely to see Apple toy with 4G in a larger, tablet-y device first. That seems to be the way this 4G stuff works - first we see it in data cards and USB modems and "internet tablets" (like the Nokia N810 WiMAX Edition), and then later we see it in phones.

Verizon's actually supposed to be lighting up their 4G network in two trial cities (Seattle and someplace else that I don't remember because I'm a yuppie coastal elitist) this year. Not sure if that will still happen, but...these are exciting times, in wireless.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2009-10-27, 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
They will keep getting killed on the low end by Verizon based MVNOs and on the higher end by the big players who already have the coverage. The guys back in Germany should be ashamed of themselves for what they've done with this company.
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-27, 16:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Seriously, you need to get over yourself. Just because someone has a different view than you doesn't mean it's "astroturf".
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-10-27, 16:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
Seriously, you need to get over yourself. Just because someone has a different view than you doesn't mean it's "astroturf".
It's not that you have a different view. It's that, whenever the issue of cellular carriers comes up in a thread on AN, you go out of your way to turn it into a conversation on how awesome Verizon is.
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-27, 16:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
...
Last I recall, they're still adding customers each quarter, unlike, say, Sprint.
Their churn is really high and the adds are slowing but more importantly they are no longer the choice for people who want cheap voice. Why pay $59.99 for unlimited voice/text when you can get it for $39.99 plus 20MB of data on a better network? At the high end not many will give up coverage to save ten bucks or so a month. It's the price to pay for putting off 3G for five years or so.
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-27, 17:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
It's not that you have a different view. It's that, whenever the issue of cellular carriers comes up in a thread on AN, you go out of your way to turn it into a conversation on how awesome Verizon is.
You're just wrong. Where have I said how awesome they are or cheerleaded for them? I'm simply stating the obvious, that T-Mobile is getting squeezed on the bottom, an important segment for them, by Page Plus and Straight Talk who offer a much larger coverage area. I referred to them as "Verizon based" because not everyone knows whose network they run on.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-27, 20:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
You're just wrong. Where have I said how awesome they are or cheerleaded for them? I'm simply stating the obvious, that T-Mobile is getting squeezed on the bottom, an important segment for them, by Page Plus and Straight Talk who offer a much larger coverage area. I referred to them as "Verizon based" because not everyone knows whose network they run on.
Straight Talk literally just "launched," like, last week. I think it's too soon to say that it's blowing T-Mobile away or whatever. And I'm sure even most people here don't know who Page Plus is. They don't advertise, they don't have stores, they don't really have any real presence. This allows them to offer really good rates, of course, but it also guarantees that they will remain small, because they want/need to be. When your average person is considering a wireless carrier, Page Plus isn't going to even be in the picture, so let's not make them something they're not.

T-Mobile might be "getting squeezed on the bottom," but it's from Cricket and metroPCS, not really from Page Plus. And what do you do when you're squeezed on the bottom? You move upmarket. They're pushing PDA data and unlimited plans, they're rolling out 3G that's faster than AT&T's, they had Android before anyone else did, they've been rolling out BlackBerries faster than anyone else...I'd say that until very recently (and by that, I mean "until next Friday") T-Mobile and (oddly) Sprint have had better overall smartphone line-ups than AT&T or Verizon, though of course the Moto Droid looks to change that.

The highest-end Straight Talk device is a Moto RAZR...1. And Page Plus doesn't even have devices, just ancient Verizon refurbs.

Your average person is not going to see a T-Mobile ad and think "Pssh, I can get a better rate by buying a Verizon inPulse phone and not activating it and instead taking it to Page Plus, which includes 20MB of data and runs on Verizon's The Network!" They're not going to know how much data 20MB is, they're not going to know who Page Plus is, and even if you were to tell them - "Page Plus? Who the hell is Page Plus?" - they're not going to know that Page Plus uses Verizon's network. Page Plus, while a great value, is simply not a familiar or trusted name...which is a good thing for Verizon.

Your average person is going to see a T-Mobile ad (and see them they will - T-Mobile's rumored to be upping their advertising spending by 40%) pushing an unlimited plan for $49, and note that they're probably paying $40 for 450 minutes (or $100 for unlimited minutes) with their current carrier. It is a gambit, particularly the Even More Plus "device sold separately" bit, but I think it will be fairly effective. DT really wants T-Mobile USA to be able to play with the big boys...

Really, though, I'm just glad we're seeing someone shaking up the cellular space. Prices should be trending downward, not up.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
GuitarCrazyo
 
 
2009-10-28, 02:54

im about sick of the french attacking america. we saved their asses from the ing nazis and this is what we get?
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2009-10-28, 03:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarCrazyo View Post
im about sick of the french attacking america. we saved their asses from the ing nazis and this is what we get?
lolwut
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-28, 12:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Straight Talk literally just "launched," like, last week. I think it's too soon to say that it's blowing T-Mobile away or whatever. And I'm sure even most people here don't know who Page Plus is. They don't advertise, they don't have stores, they don't really have any real presence.....

Your average person is not going to see a T-Mobile ad and think "Pssh, I can get a better rate by buying a Verizon inPulse phone and not activating it and instead taking it to Page Plus, which includes 20MB of data and runs on Verizon's The Network!" They're not going to know how much data 20MB is, they're not going to know who Page Plus is, and even if you were to tell them - "Page Plus? Who the hell is Page Plus?" - they're not going to know that Page Plus uses Verizon's network. Page Plus, while a great value, is simply not a familiar or trusted name...which is a good thing for Verizon.

Your average person is going to see a T-Mobile ad (and see them they will - T-Mobile's rumored to be upping their advertising spending by 40%) pushing an unlimited plan for $49, and note that they're probably paying $40 for 450 minutes (or $100 for unlimited minutes) with their current carrier. It is a gambit, particularly the Even More Plus "device sold separately" bit, but I think it will be fairly effective. DT really wants T-Mobile USA to be able to play with the big boys...

Really, though, I'm just glad we're seeing someone shaking up the cellular space. Prices should be trending downward, not up.
Of course Page Plus can't advertise right now, they only have a little over 100 employees but when they are ready it's going to hurt T-Mobile more as they still rely on voice more than the other nationals. These people don't care about phones. And don't look for stores either, it's not part of the business model. In a way it kind of like what geeks have been pining for all these years, buy the service and sort of use whatever phone you want(as long as it's CDMA/Brew!) And Straight Talk is aligned with Wal Mart who will market it like there's no tomorrow. When the marketing begins we'll see who gets hurt. And from what I've read both Verizon and Page Plus are making money off the deal despite the lower prices.

As for the T-Mobile plans that people are most talking about here they are....


Quote:
EM+ Individual Plans..

-No annual contract
-Free Nationwide TMO-TMO Calling
-Free nights/weekends
-Free Overage alerts

$29.99 ...500 whenever mins..
$39.99 ...1000 whenever mins
$49.99 ...unlimited whenever mins


$39.99...500 mins + unlimited txt
$49.99...1000 mins + unlimited txt
$59.99...unlimited mins + unlimited txt

$59.99...500 mins + unlimited txt + unlimited web
$69.99...1000 mins + unlimited txt + unlimited web
$79.99...unlimited mins + unlimited txt + unlimited web
The first three plans are boring. For me why would I pay $60 for what I can get for $40 and no taxes and fees? That's $480 over two years. The bottom three are somewhat more interesting. The $59.99 500/txt/web plan is ten dollars cheaper than the comparable Sprint Everything plan*(which includes Any Mobile, 7PM nights and Navigation along with some useless garbage). Of course it comes with no phone. Want a My Touch? Add $400 which can be paid in installments over 20 months. In the end how much do you save? You can get a Hero for $179 or a Pre for anywhere from $75 to $150. With EM+ you save $240 on the plan but spend between $220 and $325 more for the phone.

I completely agree with you in hoping prices come down and I think they will. I also hope T-Mobile becomes stronger not weaker though I think these plans aren't that exciting. I still think they would be better off buying Metro and Cricket as they both have lots of AWS spectrum which they need going forward. And almost as important, learn from AT&Ts mistake and stop selling GSM only phones.

* This plan can be had for $59.99 though not many regular folks know about it.

Last edited by addison : 2009-10-28 at 13:18.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-28, 14:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
Of course Page Plus can't advertise right now, they only have a little over 100 employees but when they are ready
That's the thing, Page Plus won't ever be ready, because advertising costs loads of money and that would mean that Page Plus would have to raise their rates. They'll do fine with word of mouth from the unusually well-informed, but I don't think they ever aspire to "beat T-Mobile" or whatever. They more or less have to stay small.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2009-10-28, 17:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
That's the thing, Page Plus won't ever be ready, because advertising costs loads of money and that would mean that Page Plus would have to raise their rates. They'll do fine with word of mouth from the unusually well-informed, but I don't think they ever aspire to "beat T-Mobile" or whatever. They more or less have to stay small.
Who's to tell how big they can get? Advertising is expensive, and they have started to do some, but they have a different business model than others. Do you know how expensive it is to have retail stores? You don't really need sales reps to sell this stuff and they don't really need much tech support either. Wal Mart may end up doing some advertising for Straight Talk. I didn't say these companies would beat T-Mobile but they can surely make life more difficult for them.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-28, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM View Post
Who's to tell how big they can get?
Verizon.

I think we're largely in agreement, actually. Page Plus has their own business model, and I think that business model will keep Page Plus from ever being a major player. They don't have to be, and they probably don't want to be - they'd have to hire more people and raise their rates and they'd totally lose their niche.

I really don't think they're a huge concern to T-Mobile right now. I think T-Mobile is far more concerned with Cricket, metroPCS, and the rest of the Big Four.

I could see T-Mobile someday overtaking Sprint, even without anything drastic happening, because Sprint will keep bleeding customers unless something drastic happens. But sonmething drastic might happen - Verizon wants to buy Vodafone's share of VZW, and Vodafone wants a US division they have more control over...
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-29, 02:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
A lot rests on the retail price of the phones, which customers aren't used to seeing and T-Mobile isn't used to advertising. T-Mobile will now have to keep those prices current - lots of times carriers reduce only the on-contract price of a handset and keep the full retail prices the same, which leads to funny things like the new BlackBerry Curve 8520 costing $50 less than the old BlackBerry Pearl 8120 (that's a real example, on T-Mobile, now). The on-contract prices of the G1 and MyTouch have been reduced $50 since their launches, but their full retail prices haven't been adjusted.
I just checked t-mobile.com again and it looks like they've adjusted the prices of some phones. Lots of BlackBerries have dropped in price (the Pearl Flip 8220 and Curve 8320 are now $299, though the original Pearl 8120 is still $349 for some reason) but they've actually upped the price of the new Curve 8520, from $299 to $349. Carriers move in mysterious ways...

The biggest change was that they dropped the full price of the MyTouch $100, to $399, which is a much fairer price. They're likely doing this just to make room for the MyTouch Fender Edition (you read that right), which just fixes the problemsof the original MyTouch (it adds a headphone jack, a 16GB microSD card, and according to some reports, more RAM) in a new wood-grain shell, but still. On contract, the $149 MyTouch (along with Sprint's $179 Hero) is likely to become a much harder sell when Verizon's Droid Eris launches for $99 - with a 5MP (?) camera to boot - so it's good to see that they're keeping an eye on their prices, and adjusting them accordingly.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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