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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-11-13, 08:42

Just the bullet points:
  • 16-inch Retina display
  • Up to 8-core processor
  • Up to 64GB of memory
  • Up to 8TB SSD storage
  • Radeon Pro 5000M graphics
  • Magic Keyboard
  • Six-speaker sound system
  • Studio-quality mics
  • 100-Wh battery

No pricing announced, I believe.

Many will be the most excited by the return of a more reliable keyboard mechanism.

But the other stuff is pretty great, too. It's awfully tempting for me to go straight to 64GB of memory, but I'll probably regret saying so once I see the BTO pricing.

Our long national nightmare seems over.

Marco Arment also seems fairly satisfied, which is saying something considering how much he railed against the predecessor.
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chucker
 
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2019-11-13, 08:48

SSD now starts at 512GB instead of 256.

(edit)

$2,399 config, before:

2.6GHz 6-core 9th-generation Intel Core i7 processor
Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz
Radeon Pro 555X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory
16GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
256GB SSD storage1
Retina display with True Tone
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

After:

2.6GHz 6-core 9th-generation Intel Core i7 processor
Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz
AMD Radeon Pro 5300M with 4GB of GDDR6 memory
16GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
512GB SSD storage¹
16-inch Retina display with True Tone
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

$2,799 config, before:

2.3GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor
Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz
Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory
16GB 2400MHz DDR4 memory
512GB SSD storage1
Retina display with True Tone
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

After:

2.3GHz 8-core 9th-generation Intel Core i9 processor
Turbo Boost up to 4.8GHz
AMD Radeon Pro 5500M with 4GB of GDDR6 memory
16GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
1TB SSD storage¹
16-inch Retina display with True Tone
Touch Bar and Touch ID
Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

(I don't know anything about AMD graphics. Is "Radeon Pro 5x00" good? Bad? Who knows.)

My guess is we'll see a bump to Comet Lake-H early next summer, which will bring us up to ten cores.

Last edited by chucker : 2019-11-13 at 09:51.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2019-11-13, 11:21

I must finally come to terms with the fact that extraneous ports (like HDMI and SD card reader) are GONE forever from the MacBook Pro.

Other than that disappointment these machines seem sufficiently beefy.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
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2019-11-13, 11:40

I would love the larger screen. I actually miss my 17" MBP. I have no need to replace my 15" though. At least I have something to look forward to.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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torifile
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2019-11-13, 12:01

Shocked that they are the same price as the 15" and that they replace the 15" rather than supplement the line.

I still love my 13" and I even like the Touch Bar and keyboard. But I'm glad they fixed the problems many have been having.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-11-13, 13:28

I just got the new 13" MBP earlier this year and I absolutely love it. The keyboard hasn't been an issue for me, but since it's already covered in the replacement program, should have no problems getting it replaced if need be.

That being said, I like what they did this the new 16". I'm hoping they bring the changes down the lineup. I"d love the regular inverted arrow keys and the separated touch bar buttons.

Nice work from Apple on this one.

Last edited by kieran : 2019-11-13 at 15:42.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-13, 14:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
(I don't know anything about AMD graphics. Is "Radeon Pro 5x00" good? Bad? Who knows.)
Seems to be a die-size thing. Has all the same specs as the previous monkey, but 7nm instead of 15nm.
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chucker
 
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2019-11-13, 16:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Seems to be a die-size thing. Has all the same specs as the previous monkey, but 7nm instead of 15nm.
My read of the table is that the 16-inch now starts at something (5300M) roughly on part with the GPU that used to be the high-end BTO option of the 15-inch ($400 for the higher-end base config, and another $350 for the Vega 20 option), and can be configured higher than that.

Just from base configs alone, 555X to 5300M seems quite a jump.

(AMD model naming is horrendous.)
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
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2019-11-13, 17:56

Well, yes, but the difference between the old "high end" card and the new "low-end card" seems to be just the die size. Thus, your question regarding "how good is X" has been roughly sorta answered.

Kind of.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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chucker
 
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2019-11-13, 18:04

Well, my worry was that these were a usual case of “barely an upgrade but we’ll conceal that by giving them completely new numbering”. It sounds like that’s not what’s happening here.

Instead, they replaced a mix of Polaris and Vega with Navi.

Last edited by chucker : 2019-11-13 at 18:24.
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PB PM
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2019-11-13, 21:42

The Radeon 5xxxM series are based on a new architecture than the previous Radeon Pro cards, so it is a little more than a die shrink. They provide more performance per watt, while offering slightly better performance in their respective categories. They are not in the same performance league as the desktop Radeon 5000 series GPUs from AMD. At least that is what the press release and data Anandtech provided when these chips were announced.
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GOLDFRAPP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2019-11-14, 00:23

Clearly Apple is going back to even numbers.

The lineup will probably be something like:

MacBook Air 12-inch

MacBook 12-inch
MacBook 14-inch

MacBook Pro 14-inch
MacBook Pro 16-inch

I do believe that one day in 3-5 years, we may even see an 18-incher inside a 17-inch body.
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chucker
 
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2019-11-14, 06:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDFRAPP View Post
Clearly Apple is going back to even numbers.

The lineup will probably be something like:

MacBook Air 12-inch

MacBook 12-inch
MacBook 14-inch

MacBook Pro 14-inch
MacBook Pro 16-inch

I do believe that one day in 3-5 years, we may even see an 18-incher inside a 17-inch body.
I think extrapolating even numbers from a single product is a bit of a leap.

I would like to have a MacBook back, in the old sense of simply the non-Pro Apple laptop. The iMac Pro and Mac Pro are very clearly not intended for consumer use just going from price points alone. The MacBook Pro, instead, is sort of a hybrid now, going up to some fairly good specs (just two years ago, the max was 16 GB RAM with the iMac Pro going to 128, which was a stupid discrepancy; now the Mac Pro goes to 1.5 TB, but at least the MacBook Pro goes to 64), while also being purchased by people who just want a fancier portable Mac (despite not coming cheap). The 13-inch MacBook Pro is even weirder in that regard. One can argue it's almost impossible to use as a pro machine: there's no GPU no matter what, only four cores, and only 16 GB RAM.

But I don't think such a hypothetical MacBook Amateur is coming, and I think we'll see:

MacBook Air 13-inch
MacBook Pro 14-inch
MacBook Pro 16-inch

Not sure about the Air, though. Eventually, they'll want to shrink its bezel as well. Does that mean they'll make the device smaller? Or will they just bump it to 14 as well?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
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2019-11-14, 11:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDFRAPP View Post
* snip *
Holy crap, Goldfrapp fell off the stage!

Nice to hear from you after, oh, I don't know, 100 years?
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GOLDFRAPP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2019-11-14, 11:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I think extrapolating even numbers from a single product is a bit of a leap.

I would like to have a MacBook back, in the old sense of simply the non-Pro Apple laptop. The iMac Pro and Mac Pro are very clearly not intended for consumer use just going from price points alone. The MacBook Pro, instead, is sort of a hybrid now, going up to some fairly good specs (just two years ago, the max was 16 GB RAM with the iMac Pro going to 128, which was a stupid discrepancy; now the Mac Pro goes to 1.5 TB, but at least the MacBook Pro goes to 64), while also being purchased by people who just want a fancier portable Mac (despite not coming cheap). The 13-inch MacBook Pro is even weirder in that regard. One can argue it's almost impossible to use as a pro machine: there's no GPU no matter what, only four cores, and only 16 GB RAM.

But I don't think such a hypothetical MacBook Amateur is coming, and I think we'll see:

MacBook Air 13-inch
MacBook Pro 14-inch
MacBook Pro 16-inch

Not sure about the Air, though. Eventually, they'll want to shrink its bezel as well. Does that mean they'll make the device smaller? Or will they just bump it to 14 as well?
I'm not a spec geek, so I don't really care about RAM-SCHMAM speak or the likes. I'm your average consumer who buys a base-model Apple product every couple of years and calls it a day.

That said, I do tend to obsess about product nomenclature and lineup in general. Let's dig in:

Fist things fist, Apple will continue streamlining of their products with Pro and non-Pro variants like so:

Mac - Mac Pro
MacBook - MacBook Pro

iPad - iPad Pro
iPhone - iPhone Pro

AirPods - AirPods Pro
Apple Watch - Apple Watch Pro (yup, believe it or not)
HomePod - HomePod Pro (I'm still not sure about this one)

Second, Apple will continue elimination of "i" and extending the ubiquity of  in their product names as much as possible. Yes, that means one day we'll be gramming from our Apple Phone Pro Maxes. Although this transition will take a while to complete, it will happen.

Third, let's talk about product name prefixes and suffixes. Apple's five widely used ones are: Pro, Air, mini, Plus, and Max.

- Pro will continue to infiltrate product names wherever possible
- Air will eventually drop from MacBooks and iPads and be reserved for AirPods and AirTags only
- mini will stay alongside Pro, and every Pro product will have a mini counterpart, which means that the updated iPhone SE could be called iPhone mini
- Plus will be reserved for services only
- and Max will be used to call something large that is larger than large

Last but not least, MacBook screen sizes: extrapolating even-number prediction from a single product is not stretching it at all. In fact, around the time when edge-to-edge display on iPhone was a hot topic, I predicted that at some point Apple would also try to cram a larger display into an existing MacBook body through bezel reduction long before 16-inch rumor was even a thing. An actual announcement of the 16-inch MacBook Pro makes the even-number prediction that much more obvious and inevitable. The question that remains is whether Apple will stick to two MacBook sizes 14 and 16, or whether they will expand to three. The next logical question is which three sizes: 12, 14, and 16, OR 14, 16, and 18. The latter makes more sense since iPad has already invaded and overtaken the small-size territory with its jumbo iPad Pros. We shall see.

One more thing:

I do believe that iCloud (just like iTunes, iPhoto, and iBooks) will also lose the "i" eventually. But there's one hindrance: email address format. Switching to john.doe@applecloud.com is certainly a mouthful and a typeful. There's one possible solution though: buy cloud.com from Citrix Cloud for several million dollars and give us john.doe@cloud.com instead.

P.S. If you run into fists in my post, please know that it's fist, not fist. A lot of keys (including R) on my original MBPTB keyboard have failed. Having autocorrect is a saving grace.

Last edited by GOLDFRAPP : 2019-11-14 at 21:57. Reason: Fixing typos due to failing keyboard on my original MacBook Pro with Touch Bar
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GOLDFRAPP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2019-11-14, 12:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Holy crap, Goldfrapp fell off the stage!

Nice to hear from you after, oh, I don't know, 100 years?
Hieeeeeeee!
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chucker
 
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2019-11-14, 14:57

^^ good thoughts
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
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2019-11-14, 21:38

I got u fam.

R
rrrr rrrrrrr Rrrr r rrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrr


...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 11:56

I sure hope - assume? - this new keyboard makes it to the 13" models (Pro and Air) on their next revision...early 2020 or so.

Or does Apple, in their 2019 wisdom/leadership, consider a solid, reliable (aka "pretty much the way it used to be before they monkeyed with it at nobody's request") keyboard to be a "pro"-level, big-screen feature, and anyone opting for the 13" models (Air or Pro) just has to miss out?

Because, frankly, that wouldn't surprise me much either at this point...

I guess we'll see in the next 3-6 months.

"The best notebook keyboard you can get for $2,399." - P. Schiller
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2019-11-18, 12:42

WHAAAAAAAAT???

Scates????



...
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chucker
 
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2019-11-18, 12:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I sure hope - assume? - this new keyboard makes it to the 13" models (Pro and Air) on their next revision...early 2020 or so.

Or does Apple, in their 2019 wisdom/leadership, consider a solid, reliable (aka "pretty much the way it used to be before they monkeyed with it at nobody's request") keyboard to be a "pro"-level, big-screen feature, and anyone opting for the 13" models (Air or Pro) just has to miss out?

Because, frankly, that wouldn't surprise me much either at this point...

I guess we'll see in the next 3-6 months.

"The best notebook keyboard you can get for $2,399." - P. Schiller
First, I think 3-6 months might be too optimistic. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes until fall 2020 for the entire line-up to kill the butterfly keyboard.

But I do think it'll trickle down to all models. I don't think Supply Chain Optimizer In Chief Tim Cook wants to have two entirely distinct keyboard parts in the MacBook line-up.

There might be some minor differences. The small laptop-like version of the external Magic Keyboard has no inverted T, and they might just feel that the inverted T is a "pro" feature, so the Air doesn't get that.

(More likely, though, they'll just quietly revert that change as well, and eventually make basically all keyboards almost entirely like the pre-2015 MacBook keyboard agian.)
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kscherer
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2019-11-18, 13:29

Well, the rumor mill is already heating up on the subject. Seems like the first half of 2020, and my guess is it would be the 4-port model, first, with the cheaper 13" Pro and the Air waiting their turn for a cycle or two.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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chucker
 
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2019-11-18, 14:53

(Maybe this should be split? It's speculation vs. the announced product.)

I'd never trust DigiTimes. Or, to put that more politely, as MR does:

"The report claims the display size will remain 13.3 inches, although given the source is DigiTimes, we would not completely rule out hopes of a larger 14-inch display."

I think we'll see a 14-inch MacBook Pro next year, and I think we'll also see a new MacBook Air with a Magic Keyboard. Just not that early.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2019-11-19, 01:19

I think all will be updated by June. 13” pro will be updates by March.

Apple wants to keep laptop sales up.
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kscherer
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2019-11-20, 18:13

Just FYI, we just got one of the 16" MB Pro 1TB models in for a customer and I am doing a data migration on it right now. Wanted to let all you guys know that the, um, "oldnew" keyboard feels exactly like the current Magic Keyboard. So, if you like that keyboard, then you will love this new thing. If not, then you won't.

Doing a data migration doesn't tell me much about the screen, but the bezel is very thin (l/4" side, and 1/2" top). Noticeably heavier than the 15", and very slightly thicker. The physical escape key and the Touch ID sensor are separated from the Touch Bar and look very nice. The Touch Bar is shorter, and I have to say that I am happy for the return of the inverted-T arrow arrangement.

I use an Apple Magic Keyboard 10-key at my desk every day (typing this on it) and absolutely love it. Personally, I like the butterfly keyboard and have little bad to say about it, but this is my favorite keyboard and knowing that Apple is going this direction is a positive (I'm not saying that for reliability purposes, but for feel).

Edit: Just tinkering with the keyboard and the older style is back in full form, including the longer throw, wobbly key travel (good or bad, you decide), and easy key separation (which should make repairs easier). The strike surface is smaller than the butterfly version, and the throw is about triple the distance. I am assuming this is one of the reasons that the 16" is thicker than the 15". As many people have said that they prefer thicker laptops with a bigger battery and longer travel keyboard, I would have to say that the 16" MBP has solved both of those problems (although the bigger battery complaint is laughable considering where we were with batteries just a few years ago). If you are using the Apple Magic keyboard and buy one of these, the transition from desktop typing experience to laptop is seamless, excepting the arrow keys which now exist in so many configurations I can't even count them. Also, the keyboard cover people (like KB Keys and Macally) have pretty much given up on making keyboard covers for Apple keyboards considering Apple has been through more designs over the past 4 years than in a good chunk of their entire history prior to that.

Oh, let me count the ways:

12" MacBook
MBP TouchBar
2019 MB Air
16" MacBook Pro
Magic Keyboard
Magic Keyboard w/10 key

That's six different keyboards, all with differing key layouts.

Edit 2: Just finished the migration and had a chance to look at the screen. Looks just like the 15" version, only bigger.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-11-20 at 19:41.
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