User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Purchasing Advice »

Current-gen refurb MacBook Air...


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
Current-gen refurb MacBook Air...
Page 1 of 2 [1] 2  Next Thread Tools
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 15:14

My 11-year-old(!) workhorse iMac finally gave it up a couple of months ago. I'm on a borrowed 2013 13" MacBook Pro (2.6GHz i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD). I'm eyeing a refurb 2019 MacBook Air with the following specs for $1,269 (and possible the 128GB version, for a bit less):

- Originally released July 2019
- 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 with Retina Display and True Tone
- 13.3-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2560-by-1600 native resolution at 227 pixels per inch
- 16GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3 onboard memory
- 256GB PCIe-based SSD1
- 720p FaceTime HD Camera
- Intel UHD Graphics 617

I no longer do heavy-lifting graphics stuff. Just low-level, screen resolution logos/icons/floorplans/cutaways. Any photo-based type stuff is all screen-res RGB (I haven't done the high-resolution CMYK stuff in ages). And I've dropped Adobe and I use Affinity Designer (and will eventually get Photo and maybe Publisher, as I've been so impressed with Designer for what I do/need).

Here are the requirements for Affinity Designer (quite modest):

Hardware
- Mac Pro, iMac, iMac Pro, MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Mini
- Intel 64-bit Core 2 Duo or better (from 2007)
- 2GB RAM minimum
- 1.27GB of available hard drive space; more during installation
- 1280x768 display size or better
- Supports regular, retina, and expanded gamut DCI-P3 displays

Operating System
- 10.9 Mavericks
- 10.10 Yosemite
- 10.11 El Capitan
- 10.12 Sierra
- 10.13 High Sierra
- 10.14 Mojave
- 10.15 Catalina

(I'm currently on, and like, Mojave...Catalina kinda scares me a little)

I use the online, web-based Sketchup Free occasionally and that's pretty much it for that sort of stuff.

Then a little iMovie and Garageband, and all the other built-in Apple stuff (Safari, iTunes, Mail, Messages, Preview, TextEdit, Contacts, Pages, etc.).

Knowing all this, my current "graphics life", etc. do you foresee any problems with the 2019 MacBook Air as listed above? Affinity Designer wants 2GB of RAM, I'd have 16GB. I imagine iMovie and Garageband must run somewhat okay if they come preinstalled on the MacBook Air?

For years I've had a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo (2007, baby) and an ATi Radeo HD 2600(?) with 256MB RAM and 3GB(!) of overall system RAM (I know, I know)

I know the clock speed on the Air is much lower, but do several generations of processor help offset that any? And the 16GB RAM vs. 3GB?

I need advice because I've never purchased a 1.6GHz machine with integrated graphics, but when I look at the requirements, it seems doable. Again, no high-res heavy-lifting, no high-end/hardcore video or music production (everything I do has always been more than served by the built-in free stuff from Apple). The Affinity titles are the only third-party things I'd have (and the Photo specs are exactly those of Designer).

I'm looking to mind cost, so I'd like to specifically hover around/discuss the Mac I've shown above. I know I can get a more robust 13" notebook, but I'm not 100% sure I need to at this point. But would I be in a hugely rude awakening if I went with the above Air?
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-18, 16:15

Honestly, I find this hard to answer.

The new Retina MacBook Air generation is fairly underpowered. Fine for the student/writer/etc. who just wants any decent laptop, but limiting beyond that.

Graphics stuff can and will demand more power, and you’ll be limited.

On the other hand, you say you don’t really do heavy lifting any more. (Which is a bummer. Where’s my AR goggles mockup?) So you may be fine with the Air.

I just get the sense that you wouldn’t be very happy with it.

(edit)

Some more thoughts: do you really care much how light the Air is? If so, that might just make it worth it. But your main motivation seems to be price?

I had actually forgotten how good the lowest-end Pro has become this summer. It does weigh 10% more, and it's somewhat thicker (hard to compare as it isn't wedge-shaped). But, $200 buys you:
  • a wide-color display
  • a CPU that's 23% faster in single-core and almost 2.5 times as fast in dual-core
  • likewise, much beefier graphics

You do get the Touch Bar, though, if you hate that…

Last edited by chucker : 2019-11-18 at 16:50.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 16:21

Okay, thanks for the input.

I was hoping that might light usage these days would allow me to scale down.

Interested to hear some other thoughts as well.

A pretty specific combo, I guess (2019 MacBook Air, 16GB, Affinity Designer).

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2019-11-18 at 16:47.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-11-18, 16:52

This is a tough one. I know you said you probably don't need the extra oomph of a MBP, but consider, for the same price (in the refurb store):

+1.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
+Bluetooth 5.0
+A bit better GPU (Iris Plus Graphics 645)
+Touch Bar (both Affinity Designer & Photo have Touch Bar support)
- Only 8GB RAM*

Geekbench: MBP vs Air


*You could wait for 16GB RAM/128GB HD to show up as well, for the same price I'd assume (I don't see any in the store currently).

[edit]: Aha. I see chucker beat me to the Pro.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2019-11-18 at 17:07.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 16:57

Interesting.

The size/thinness/weight doesn't matter a bit.

Mostly price and knowing I don't need to overbuy (again, as I've done a couple of times in my Mac-using life).

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2019-11-18 at 17:08.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-18, 17:04

When I sell a customer a computer, as soon as "light graphic design" is tossed into the conversation, I automatically try to steer them away from the Air. Just a bit too underpowered, even for the lighter design apps.

Go with the Pro. It will be worth the additional cost down the road. Spending a couple hundred extra will be well worth it. Opt for the 16GB RAM, but the 128 SSD will likely be fine, considering you can get some pretty solid external storage these days.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 17:10

Yeah, I'm on Apple Music and I don't really have large files like I used to (I pared down my photo library as well over the summer). For the first time ever, part of me is like "I could probably get by with 128GB". This iMac has 320GB and for 11(!) years, it's never been over 110GB.

Most of the time, including now, I'm about 78GB total...

Oh, and the 16GB, no matter what I get, is a no-brainer.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-18, 17:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Interesting.

The size/thinness/weight doesn't matter a bit.

Mostly price and knowing I don't need to overbuy (again, as I've done a couple of times in my Mac-using life).
Sure.

It's just, right now, the Air is a fine computer and a decent deal by Apple standards. But the cheapest Pro is a much better deal, even.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-18, 17:33

(Is anyone gonna mention the elephant in the room that all these have a problematic keyboard?)
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-18, 18:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
(Is anyone gonna mention the elephant in the room that all these have a problematic keyboard?)
We recently bought my daughter a 2019 13" MacBook Air. As an education student, she types more than anyone I know, or have ever met—literally thousands of words every day. She loves the keyboard and, being young and not habitually bound to the old keyboard, could care less.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 18:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
(Is anyone gonna mention the elephant in the room that all these have a problematic keyboard?)
Well, that's part b of all this. If I drag this out long enough, the thing I talked about in that other thread (the new 16" MacBook Pro, and if that new keyboard design will funnel down to the other, smaller models sooner vs. later) may factor in. I don't know why it would take them until next fall to do it, so I'm hoping not. But if January/February gets here and the grapevine is yammering about new updated Airs and 13" (14"?) Pros on the horizon (Q1 or first half of 2020), and with the new keyboard design, then I'd just wait a little. I don't want to buy something with a problem if the timing worked out in such a way that I could just sit tight.

I don't know.

Do you see now why I used an August 2007 release iMac from September 2008 until August 2019? I hate this stuff (decision-making, spending money, trying to find that sweet spot to purchase, scanning the refurb section 19 times a day, etc.). I'm still using my iPhone SE, that I got in April 2016. My overall goal/stance on tech is to buy it and use the crap out of it for as long as possible. The idea of upgrading/replacing every 2-4 years just isn't how I go about it. Although I'll admit that I probably pushed it with iMac. Although, 11 years of solid, daily use - and 12 years of actual age/specs - is pretty impressive. Like those commercials you've seen where someone's had a Ford truck for 600,000 miles or whatever. Wasn't my plan, just saw no need to update unless I had to. Until 2-3 months ago, I never had too.

I'm frugal/practical almost to the point of idiocy.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-18, 18:14

Well, keyboard aside, these are both really good laptops.

You were previously on an iMac, so maybe you can do the external keyboard + mouse/trackpad lifestyle anyway?

If you're willing to wait, there will almost certainly be better Macs next year. And the year after that. And 2022. Oh, and ARM Macs, maybe. Also, macOS 10.31 Death Valley II: The Deather, The Valleyer.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 18:21

I've got an Apple Bluetooth keyboard (the shortboard) and it's fine. I like the keyboard on this little Pro I'm using (at 2013, it was before they lost their minds with the butterfly?). But I do use a mouse if I'm doing any drawing or whatever. But I like the trackpad too, all the gestures.

I'm not in a position to do anything this moment, and by the time I am (January/February) the 2020 rumor mill may wind up factoring in.

I may just use this little loaner longer than I plan on. It's certainly nimble (I imagine that's the SSD?). I love how most everything launches in a single Dock bounce...I've been accustomed to 15-30.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-18, 18:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
It's certainly nimble (I imagine that's the SSD?). I love how most everything launches in a single Dock bounce...I've been accustomed to 15-30.
Oh man! If you never put an SSD in your iMac, that's a huge improvement right there (even on the Air!).
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-11-18, 18:34

The 'sweet spot', imo, will be the next round of 13/14? MBPs. Newer keyboard, and – hopefully – Apple dispenses with the 'lower-end penalty' of just 2 USB-C ports instead of the obvious 4; 2 on each side. I mean, come on.

And would it kill them to put the headphone jack on the proper side of the machine? For fuck's sake.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2019-11-18 at 18:46.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-18, 19:06

There's a proper side for the headphone jack?
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2019-11-18, 20:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
There's a proper side for the headphone jack?
For a laptop, yes (iMac too!). I've never in my life had a set of cans that had the cord coming out of the (R) side, so it's always a stretchy loop around the back side of the machine just to get the cord out of my way and on the proper (L) side. How is this not a bigger thing? It's stressed me out for years.

So it goes.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-18, 20:38

Okay, looking at that lower-end 2019 MacBook Pro, everyone's right...in the refurb store, I could probably get one of those with 16/128 for the same $1,269 I'd get a 16/256 Air for (the 16/128 Air would be $1,099). I think I'd be okay with 128GB these days.

Anyway, my question is what sort of real-life, noticeable difference are we looking at in the Air's 1.6GHz dual-core i5 and the Pro's 1.4GHz quad-core i5? 200MHz difference in the one spec, but four vs. two cores in the other. What kind of difference are we talking about there?

And what about the difference in graphics: the Air's Intel UHD Graphics 617 vs. the Pro's Intel's Iris Plus Graphics 645?

I've just never delved into those kinds of things (haven't had to, for 11 years).

Googling/reading some head-to-head comparisons between the 2019 Air and 13" $1,299 Pro, but it's always nice to hear real life input from regular people as well.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-20, 18:22

Scates, I would recommend you get to an Apple Store or equivalent and try out the keyboards next to each other. it may affect your purchasing decision.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-21, 11:06

I might've created this thread a bit too soon - premature explanation? - as it looks like the "loaner" status on this 13" Pro I'm using is generously "open-ended", which should take me well into 2020. By then I should have saved up enough to look at the options available come next spring/summer. I'm big on refurbs, but I'd certainly spend another $200-300 and buy new if it were based on a superior, more reliable keyboard (an important part of a notebook) and whatever other improvements (thermal, battery, speakers, etc.), especially since the chance of me keeping it for at least five solid years (and likely beyond) is quite high...I've always preferred to pay a bit upfront, once, for a good 4-5 (or 11 ) years, than to constantly be shelling out $1,299-1,999 every 2-3 years like many do.

I do think, heading into 2020, that any notebook with the word "Pro" attached to it, regardless of size, should come with 16GB RAM stock. So I'm hoping maybe that would be one to he features of a new 13/14" model as well. Just seems petty and chintzy at this point to be selling a "pro"-designated notebook for $1,299 - let alone $1,799 and 1,999 - with 8GB...you know it doesn't cost Apple anything to make that 16GB a stock feature for these particular models. If folks want to upgrade/BTO up to 32 or 64, they can do so (I'm not asking/expecting those RAM amounts to be stock anytime soon). But having to pay $200 to go from 8 to 16GB in 2019-2020 on a "pro" model is a Moe Howard eye-poke at this point.

But they've always treated the smallest "pro" notebook (12" PowerBook G4, 13" MacBook Pro) over the years as a less-than afterthought, always running behind in every way possible to its 15" (and, at one time, 17") big brother. I realize, due to space and thermal-related issues, the smaller variants might not be cut out for the fastest, highest-performing processors and graphics. That's reasonable, I understand. But I wouldn't think RAM or storage falls under that. If the new 16" MacBook Pro now, finally, comes with 16GB RAM standard, the new 13/14" model 2020 should as well. I don't think that's an unreasonable, "out there" request. Ideally, as much as possible, the only differentiator between the 13" and 16" models should be just that...display size. Especially now that all the various ports and optical drive have been jettisoned...all they need to fit on the sides these days are a couple of small Thunderbolt 3 ports (vs. multiple USB, Ethernet, HDMI, SD slot, etc., which may have been dependent on chassis size in the past).

The Air can come stock with 8GB and i5 (upgradeable to 16GB and i7) for as long as it makes sense and nobody is going to complain or care (especially if it's the general-use notebook "for everybody" and it helps keep the pricing down). But I would hope the Pro models, both sizes, unify on the 16GB RAM/i7 baseline in 2020. The fact they offer the i7 upgrade for the 13" models means that it can run it, so there are apparently no thermal/performance issues there. So knock it off with the chintzy nickel-and-diming to get to those two levels on this particular model. Come 2020, make i9 and 32/64GB RAM* the BTO options on the pro notebooks for those who really need that extra "oomph", but everyone else, especially for $1,799+, should at least have the RAM that's stock on the larger model...display size shouldn't determine that particular spec.



*I realize i9 and 32/64GB RAM currently aren't available upgrades for the 13" model, and that may be due to board types or technical reasons beyond my grasp. In that case, fine...the 13" tops out in those two areas (i7 and 16GB RAM) and the only BTO option would be storage). I don't think people would care if they couldn't upgrade to a non-existent spec/component, if they knew they were getting a good baseline, stock unit for the money/model name. And if future advances allow the smaller model to support i9 and 32/64GB RAM, then my statement in the previous paragraph would apply). Point is, a new redesigned 13" Pro is surely coming in 2020; it would be nice if it was more on par with the 16" in some areas, to where the customer mainly just had to decide based on screen size and overall budget (because currently it kinda sucks to want a 13", but to almost have to spend the cost of a 16" to get the specs/performance that should come out of the box on the smaller model.

EDIT: If I BTO the current $1,999 13" MacBook Pro (because it has the 512GB storage the new 16" model has), then it costs $500 to upgrade to the 2.8GHz quad-core i7 ($300) and 16GB RAM ($200), putting it at $2,499...$100 more than the stock 16" model.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2019-11-21 at 11:34.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-21, 11:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
EDIT: If I BTO the current $1,999 13" MacBook Pro (because it has the 512GB storage the new 16" model has), then it costs $500 to upgrade to the 2.8GHz quad-core i7 ($300) and 16GB RAM ($200), putting it at $2,499...$100 more than the stock 16" model.
Yeah, that's a funny one. I had a customer the other day who wanted that spec, and he wound up going home to think about his life choices.

Seriously?

And you have to remember that the 16" has a much more powerful GPU, 6 cores vs. 4, 6 speakers vs. 2, an extra hour of battery life, and the obvious screen size. Add the keyboard difference if that's a thing for you.



I snipped the thread because it was getting off topic and into a discussion we were having elsewhere.

I want to continue the conversation, but in the appropriate place.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-11-21 at 14:48.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-21, 18:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I do think, heading into 2020, that any notebook with the word "Pro" attached to it, regardless of size, should come with 16GB RAM stock.
I'd give that more than a 50% chance of happening anyway, yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But they've always treated the smallest "pro" notebook (12" PowerBook G4, 13" MacBook Pro) over the years as a less-than afterthought, always running behind in every way possible to its 15" (and, at one time, 17") big brother. I realize, due to space and thermal-related issues, the smaller variants might not be cut out for the fastest, highest-performing processors and graphics. That's reasonable, I understand. But I wouldn't think RAM or storage falls under that. If the new 16" MacBook Pro now, finally, comes with 16GB RAM standard, the new 13/14" model 2020 should as well. I don't think that's an unreasonable, "out there" request.
Well, it's ultimately a design choice Apple made (and in part, limitations on Intel's end). And they partially reneged on it.

All 2016 MacBook Pros came with LPDDR RAM. It's small, saves on power, and so on. But Intel, at the time, limited that to 16 GB (for various reasons), so Apple's highest-end laptop was limited to 16 GB RAM, which isn't great, and got some criticism.

That prompted Phil Schiller to comment that they did so for power reasons. And it probably set in motion (aside from Intel dragging their feet) that, for the 2018 update, they changed their decision: the 15-inch MacBook Pro (and only that) now used DDR (without the LP) RAM. It draws more power, but allowed Apple to offer 32 GB (and now even 64).

The bad news is that they never made this change for the 13-inch, probably because:
  • it's not quite as Pro (which, yeah, I know, Ken just split off that discussion)
  • combined with the space/power constraints not being great

They probably figure that those who need more than 16 will largely buy the 15 (now 16) anyway.

The good news is that the next version of the 13-inch MacBook Pro could ship with a newer version of LPDDR that does in fact support 32.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Ideally, as much as possible, the only differentiator between the 13" and 16" models should be just that...display size.
Sure. Really, the much bigger deal is that the 16 comes with its own dedicated graphics chip, and the 13 does not. Hasn't for many years now.

Again, this is a branding thing, really. They made the bed of calling the 13-inch a "Pro", but don't really want to lie in it, because that means making it a lot beefier.

They used to — that's why the 12-inch PowerBook G4 was thicker (1.18" vs. 1" on the 17). Instead, the 13-inch MacBook Pro is actually slightly thinner than the 15-inch now (0.59" vs. 0.61").

So I think the real answer is that Apple doesn't want to make a 13-inch "Pro" in the sense that the 16-inch, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro are. And they probably don't because they don't see much of a market for it. They do, however, see quite a market of people who like their machine to be called "Pro" regardless of what that means, and be reasonably fancy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I realize i9 and 32/64GB RAM currently aren't available upgrades for the 13" model, and that may be due to board types or technical reasons beyond my grasp.
Right. Though, well, they could always make the 13 thicker and then allow higher options. That's ultimately up to them.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-21, 21:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Right. Though, well, they could always make the 13 thicker and then allow higher options. That's ultimately up to them.


And then you woke up.

Although, maybe with Mr. Form-Over-Function out the door, perhaps the obsession with "thinness above all else" will get dialed back to reasonable levels for a nice change. On machines with the word "pro" in their name, performance should be the guiding factor (as opposed to "stylish art on your desk/in your messenger bag". It isn't like the MacBook Pro is some ungainly beast. If it never got thinner - or even if it gained a millimeter or three (but opened up possibilities on the performance front in various ways) - so be it. I think most users would applaud that.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2019-11-21 at 21:44.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-22, 09:24

Recent Apple products did gain some thickness. iPhone thinness actually peaked a few years ago; each iteration since has become slightly thicker. With the 11, they seem pretty explicit about doing so for batter life reasons.

The new MBP is also thicker than before.

So I wouldn’t rule it out. If it’s required for the keyboard and also allows for nicer RAM, sure, why not.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-22, 10:47

Of course. Glad to see it! Hope that’s a sign or things to come and maybe a slight shift in thinking/priorities.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2019-11-22 at 11:15.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-22, 11:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
”going thicker”, at any amount, was their kryptonite.
Yup. I love that this is changing, even if only to mix things up a little!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Also doesn’t help that any time they do, even just a smidge, a bunch of self-appointed design fetishists cry about it on Twitter and YouTube. But I’m hoping that thinking is turning around a bit, and it looks like it might be. Nobody’s died yet from a slightly thicker iPhone 11 or new MacBook, after all. It got to where you’re wondering “is Apple designing stuff for people to use/enjoy, or are they just out for bragging rights and design awards?”
I think Apple under Ive (not necessarily as in Ive the person, but the values he appears to represent) was designing for this future:



And we're kind of not there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I don’t recall anyone in that 2014-2018 timeframe complaining about how all their stuff is just too ugly, bulky and needlessly thick.
Well, people do complain about the camera bump. And to remove the camera bump, the phone would have to be a fair amount thicker. People might complain about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But Apple certainly seemed to be operating as though that were the case. And if that was mostly stemming from Ive and his various wants and obsessions, then yeah, good riddance. He wasn’t helping.
I think that's true.

Jason Snell recently got into the Henry Ford/faster horse thing, arguing that the mantra of not asking customers what they want is sometimes correct, but can also go too far. Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
If your priority is sleek thinness to the point that it’s limiting what components and performance can be put into a machine with the word “pro” in its name, that’s a problem IMO. You’ve gone too far. Do that on machines - the Air or Mac mini - that aren’t supposed to be about no-compromise performance for the money one is asked to spend on the pro gear.
Right.

It seems Apple misjudged how much market demand there was for the MacBook Pro to be almost Air-like.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-22, 11:37

Note: I edited my long post that you quoted from because I was afraid I was veering off topic and didn’t want kscherer to come in here again with his knuckle-slap ruler moderating powers.

I do appreciate your response...I just don’t know how long it may be around (or it may wind up over in that other thread where everyone squawks about Apple’s recent, various WTF-isms).
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2019-11-22, 12:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Note: I edited my long post that you quoted from because I was afraid I was veering off topic and didn’t want kscherer to come in here again with his knuckle-slap ruler moderating powers.


I was wondering after posting where most of your post went.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I do appreciate your response...I just don’t know how long it may be around (or it may wind up over in that other thread where everyone squawks about Apple’s recent, various WTF-isms).
I hope he moves it. And then you derail your own thread again.

Last edited by chucker : 2019-11-22 at 13:07.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-11-22, 12:44

Would not be the first time, believe me. I think that's my X-men super power...
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-11-22, 14:01

Yeah, well you guys just go ahead and jabber. I'd rather Scates be in here derailing his own threads than out there hiding from us like a booger!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 2 [1] 2  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Refurb current-generation iMac question (what OS and iLife?) pscates2.0 Genius Bar 3 2012-03-25 05:26
Refurb Macbook Thoughts Lyngo Purchasing Advice 3 2010-06-19 22:46
Refurb MacBooks showing up in the refurb store! pscates2.0 Apple Products 5 2008-12-30 20:18
Refurb PowerBook vs MacBook Pro xebeche Purchasing Advice 5 2006-07-26 11:51
UK People: Refurb MacBook Pros! neiltc13 Apple Products 4 2006-06-22 12:34


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2019, AppleNova