Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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If my next car has A2DP built in and if an upcoming iPhone/iPhone software update brings A2DP to the iPhone, problem more-than-solved. I love my car and intend to keep it for another 4-6 years, but I would be willing to replace the head unit in the stereo for one with A2DP + HSP Bluetooth capability. An acceptable solution would be 4 buttons across the bottom, where the home button on the iPhone is. Think 3G iPod. But lets also not forget that the iPod clickwheel has become nothing short of iconic. Eliminating the clickwheel is not a decision to be taken lightly, from both a usability and branding standpoint. Apple has to have a seriously awesome replacement for the clickwheel if they do intend to replace it, and no, lone multi-touch is not it. If you're going to eliminate buttons from the unit itself, you will need a remote. But if Apple doesn't provide accessible, actual buttons that you can feel, Apple will have a Cube-caliber flop on their hands. I'm dead serious. A buttonless iPod would kill the iPod. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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For the last time: Zippy is not talking about the iPhone. He's saying there are ways and means to do it with a full-screen interface. NOT the iPhone interface, a hypothetical different one.
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Going Strange...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Actually, I use the button on the Shure headphone adapter, but same difference. one button, one press. Oh, and the iPhone stayed in my pocket, so no instances of looking at the screen for a total of 0:00.00 time looking at it. |
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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If I've misunderstood and you are talking about some sort of hybrid buttons + touchscreen interface, than I apologize for misunderstanding and I 100% agree. Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
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Lovable Bastard
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
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But the rocker is tiny compared to the massive wheel the iPod provides you with. My point is simply this: the iPod's basic playback interface is far more usable than the iPhone's when it comes to tactile control. On a hybrid device like an iPhone that does multiple things, it's arguably fine to give a little leeway, especially for a 1.0 device. On an iPod, the sole function of which is to play back media, it's not fine to let inferiority slide.
Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end. |
Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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You seem to have decided that iPhone iPod interface = bad (and I agree there) therefore all touchscreen interface must = bad. And you're wrong. You keep saying "but you have to look at the device". With what Zippy is suggesting, no you don't. Not at all. Less so even than on a current iPod. Do you not see that? Yes, on a touchscreen you can't "feel" where the buttons are. That's because they are everywhere. You don't need tactile feedback if everywhere is the right place. It's all irrelevant anyway, but the point is, there is a way to do it with a Touchscreen that works. And knowing Apple, they'll have some super-duper extra twist that makes it even better. Maybe some kind of haptics to give the sensation of touching a button that isn't really there? I dunno. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Apple isn't thinking about an iPod that is in your pocket, because Apple wants your iPod to be seen; out in the open; shown off. Thus, their software engineers aren't thinking about controlling it in your pocket (from its own interface). So those points are mute.
However, I do believe that a touch interface has more potential for blind control than anything else ever imagined. With the right software, and the right thinking, it could be made in such a manner to deliver the simplest blind iPod control ever! However, will Apple actually be thinking this, considering what I said in my first paragraph? Doubtful! And, no, a touch interface will not kill the iPod. The concept is so cool that Apple will sell one to almost every existing iPod user. Another 100 million units will fly away in the next 2-3 years. It is the interface that almost everyone has been drooling over (one need only look back through this forum to understand that!) and there will be a huge demand for them. So much so that they will sell on eBay for twice their retail price. Mark my words. Another lame "click wheel" upgrade will be followed with stagnant "already been there" sales figures, regardless of what OS is driving it. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Perhaps somebody with more iPhone time can set me straight on this. But count me with those that would rather have the Nano (even if it's as ugly as projected) than an iPod without tactile feedback. That was what set the iPod apart in the first place. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Second, you mean "moot." Not "mute." |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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If you're replying to me, then Apple's engineers are even stupider than I implied. Because if they release a multi-touch device that doesn't select something when you point at it, then they've just neutered the entire concept of multitouch. You're back to pre-Newton interfaces.
And if it's about switching modes, then you're back to the problem everybody else has been pointing out... you'll have to pick it up to switch modes before using any controls, which (once again) makes it less useful than the original ipod. |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
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Sorry I've been absent on all this back and forth, I had a bunch of errands to do after work and picking up kids.
Let's start by identifying what controls are *really* doable without looking at an existing iPod. -Play -Pause -Volume Up -Volume Down -Skip Forward -Skip Backward That's really about it. For anything else - selecting a specific song, navigating through the menu, changing settings, watching videos, browsing photos, changing the rating, etc.. - you really need to look at the device. So torifile, in your example, and using my proposed controls, all you'd have to do to pause the device is tap it - anywhere on the screen. When you get back, tap it again - anywhere on the screen. What could possibly be faster or easier? It's almost like hitting the current play, pause button on the iPod, except that you don't even have to look or feel where it is. If it's sitting in a center console, on the seat next to you, or in some kind of mount, all you have to do is slide your finger across it to skip tracks - but you can slide it anywhere as long as your motion is generally left-right or right-left. Again, you don't have to look at it, or feel around for the wheel. It's actually faster and easier than the click wheel. As for the 'lock' I was referring to, it's the same as the existing lock switch on all the current iPods. It's there if you want to make absolutely sure that nothing will get pressed while the unit is in your pocket. The only possible problem I see with it is that it might be a 'little cramped' inside jean pockets, but I'd bet they could even make it sensitive to touch through the fabric. Jacket, or baggy pant pockets would be fairly easy. You would need to know which way the device was oriented for skipping tracks, buy that isn't too hard if you've got some headphones plugged into it - you can very quickly feel where the cord is coming out. And even more simply - just remember how you put it into the pocket to begin with. I'll guarantee you that even if you don't realize it, you probably put something like this in your pocket the exact same way every time - you just need to realize which way that is. Once it's in there, it's not likely to move around. And of course any kind of headphone that has clickable controls - like the iPhone headphones - can help make it easier still. Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents! |
Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Yeah, that thing! Although "mute" would work if everyone was speechless… Quote:
- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Unknown
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Think of the Front Row remote. While you are navigating the menus, pressing up or down helps to navigate. But once you are watching or listening to something, pressing up and down now control the volume. You could argue that it would be harder to understand than the existing iPod clickwheel, and as such it would be counter to one of the iPods strongest selling points - ease of use. And that may be true, but I'm not too sure. The could provide some on-screen helpers for people who are just starting out, and once you get the hang of it, they can be turned off, or if they aren't very obtrusive, simply ignore them. Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents! |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I'm currently without an iPod, since mine was stolen out of my car console last month. These days I use my wife's when I'm at home, but she doesn't let me take it in the car (go figure). I'll be getting something with a new iMac after Sept 5. I'd hoped for a good iPod, but if it's a touchscreen I'll probably go with a Nano. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales
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I'd like to add that even though I would love to see a full screen - touch screen ipod, I also agree with you guys about how to use it without looking. This is important to me because I use mine an awful lot in the car. What nobody has suggested yet though (and i actually think it's a terrible idea) is having a full screen on the front of the iPod and the click wheel on the back or side. Obviously the click wheel we know and love would be unsuitable for this but those engineers slaving underneath Johnathan Ive are clever guys and must be able to come up with something that works. Im sure we will get our full screen iPod, touchscreen or not. I'm also sure that whatever interface is included it will be both useable and sexy, like most of Apple's other UI designs. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hampshire (the original one)
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Personally I like the idea of this adaptive interface.
In my mind, here's how it would work: When out in the open, the iPod functions as the iPhone iPod - ie, you have to look at the screen and press the onscreen buttons in the correct place to operate it just as the iPhone currently does now. I'll call this "iPhone Mode" to make it simple to imagine. When you put the iPod in your pocket, a proximity sensor (same as iPhone's) knows that the iPod is in a pocket (because it's just gone dark!) so it switches modes to "Pocket Mode": The screen goes off BUT the touch sensitive element still remains active. In this mode tapping the screen or using any of the gestures mentioned above ANYWHERE on the screen will operate the iPod as expected. When you take the iPod out of your pocket, it REMAINS in Pocket Mode until you perform a gesture that switches the screen on again and places the iPod back into normal iPhone Mode. If you are in a car, there could even be an on screen button that puts it into "Car Mode" so that from that point on it's easy to operate whilst you are driving. In Car Mode, the screen is actually on but it just displays the current track full screen. In this mode it is controlled purely by the gestures outlined above, ie you can touch any part of the screen to operate it. To my mind, this would keep all of the people happy, all of the time. Well, me anyway |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Swansea, Wales
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