User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Genius Bar »

What is Big Sur Backing Up?


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
What is Big Sur Backing Up?
Thread Tools
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-04, 13:53

I have a 2019 Mac Mini that does some utility work and I noticed that some of the files have the iCloud icon off to the right in column view in Finder. Is that thing trying to back up everything??

WHAT IS GOING ON??!!



...
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-04, 13:58

The iCloud icon is showing you files that are synced with iCloud (these are usually documents and desktop folders, and can be toggled in iCloud's iCloud Drive option—but be careful with that thing, since turning it off could kill those files on the Mac*). iCloud is not "backing up" your Mac, but syncing with it, although this could be considered "backup" since a copy of that file is now on the cloud.

If you are using Time Machine, it is backing up your Mac and all of its settings (including iCloud settings), but it is not backing up anything on iCloud.

*I don't use iCloud Drive because of this. It's cryptic as hell, and if you turn it off you lose whatever was "on the Mac", because technically it's not. Or something. It actually is, but the file location is hidden and not so fun to get at—or understand, or recover, or anything else useful.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-05-04, 14:04

Yeah, those cloud icons mean they aren't saved on your local machine but in the iCloud environment so you can download them if you need them. This is a space saving thing so you don't fill your drive with stuff you don't need on the local machine. No icon means it is on your local computer.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-05-04, 14:45

The moving things off of "on the Mac" just means that the "Desktop" and "Documents" folders become iCloud Drive as opposed to local folders on the Mac. You don't lose them, just those become synced folders now. This is handy for a number of reasons. Especially if you pay for storage or have little to store.

So here the only folder saved locally on my MBP is the certs_vpn folder. Everything else is synced in iCloud Drive and I can download any time I need them and have internet connectivity. All of the files and folders can be seen on any connected Mac or iOS device. I'm nearly certain I can even access them via web browser... though I've not needed to try that.

Only recently did they add useful folder sharing so it finally beat out Dropbox for my primary use.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-05-04, 18:42

Time Machine will, by design, back up your iCloud stuff as well.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-05-04, 19:35

Yeah, I added my iCloud to the exclude list though. One copy is enough for me.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-04, 20:28

I hate to sound like a grandpa here but I am seriously going to need to step back to understand which folders are truly local. It sounds pretty clear, I just need to hit it with a clear mind later, probably tomorrow.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-05-04, 21:55

Traditional account layout:
Code:
~/ Applications Desktop <---- iCloud sync Documents <---- iCloud sync Downloads Library Movies Music Pictures Public Sites
If it ain't iCloud sync'd, it's local.

Also, each app (Pages, Numbers, Preview, TextEdit) has a default storage folder for when you Cmd-N, typey-typey, Cmd-Q without saving or naming it. And you can also save to it. And it's a bit hidden. (Psst, look in Finder->iCloud Drive.)

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-04, 22:35

Y'all are seriously the best.

All of you.

When you baby along a 6.5 year old machine and stop updating the OS because you're running Outlook 2011 and aren't ready to move yet, you miss stuff like this.

What crazy times.


...
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-05-05, 02:03

I think the Desktop & Documents thing is opt-in, though, no?
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-05-05, 08:50

It is opt-in, but I think it is pushed-in more by default. I think you have to deselect it when enabling your local Mac account to be signed into iCloud.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-05, 10:18

Yeah, it depends a lot on how your existing system is configured, whether or not you start from scratch, and which setup page the setup assistant lands on. I've done migrations where the iCloud Drive setup page shows up, and not. It's not consistent, and Apple does a terrible job documenting how the system works and why.

Also, unless you are buying extra storage (which Apple clearly wants you to do, thus all of the default crap), your iCloud Drive Desktop and Documents setting can very quickly stuff iCloud full and then you'll start getting the feed-the-beast prompts. People get confused and feed without asking and then get roped into paying for something they might not actually want.

I don't like it at all. So, when I do migrations, I make sure that setting is checked off. Then, the customer can turn it on if they want. It's cryptic, and I think it's designed that way intentionally because it helps sell online storage to people who have no idea what's happening.

I refuse to use it.

Quick point: If you use iCloud Desktop and Documents, you can still use the service without internet access because all of the files are stored locally in the [well-hidden] Library. Then, when you get online the system will sync any changes. But, again, it's cryptic how and why this works, and even more cryptic that signing out of iCloud removes the files from your local drive.

Moral of the story: Use it when you know what it's doing, and the repercussions to turning it off.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-05-05, 14:26

... huh.

The $10/mon for 2TB for our entire family to share among Macs, iPhones, and iPads is well worth it, IMO.

YMMV.

Quote:
you can still use the service without internet access because all of the files are stored locally in the [well-hidden] Library.
Not... quite. If you have turned on Optimize Storage, and your iCloud storage nears or exceeds your device storage, files will be locally deleted and refetched on demand when needed.

Unless you're offline.

So if you have a critical need for offline access to a file you haven't poked at in a while, make sure to open it before going offline.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-05, 14:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
Not... quite. If you have turned on Optimize Storage, and your iCloud storage nears or exceeds your device storage, files will be locally deleted and refetched on demand when needed.
Correct, but only if Optimize Storage is turned on.

And, yeah, I know it's cheap. But that does not dispel Apple's lack of documentation so that customers can at least know what's going on. If Apple would fix that, then I might be more open to a recommendation. A tiny little bit of communication and explanation would go a long way towards customer confidence*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
So if you have a critical need for offline access to a file you haven't poked at in a while, make sure to open it before going offline.
Yes. And wouldn't it be really neat if Apple had a simple, straightforward guide to how this works, and why? Something like a big "How iCloud Works" button right there in the iCloud window?

Edit: Here is Apple's support page for this stuff. At the very bottom is some fine-print that attempts to explain what happens when you decide to shut it off.

* As usual, I'm referencing the average, ordinary Mac user, and not the typical AN member. I know how the system works and you know how the system works, but explaining it to not-know-nothin's is a complex and confusing process that should be straight forward. "Just turn it on and trust that it works" does not work.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2021-05-05 at 14:54.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-11, 18:24

I just found this article indicating that things are going to change a bit...

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21...-drive-in-2022

...
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backing up my macbook bcleve23 Genius Bar 1 2011-07-08 02:13
Backing up an iMac. MCSE+I-Turncoat Apple Products 98 2007-08-06 11:39
backing up HD to iPod? jsk173 Apple Products 7 2006-06-20 21:14
Backing up Maciej Genius Bar 1 2005-03-16 20:52
Cloning and Backing up _Ω_ Genius Bar 6 2004-09-08 08:22


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:43.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2021, AppleNova