[stevegong]

Backstory:

Recently I upgraded my MacBook Pro to an SSD. The boot up time is now 16 seconds.

Naturally, as anyone who didn't have an SSD in their first computer (most people), I was pretty ecstatic, and felt like it was show-off worthy.

I've showed my computer booting up to about 10 people now, most of whom are windows users, all of whom I'd consider to be computer literate. Before showing them, I'd tell them that my computer, with the new SSD, now boots up really fast, way faster than before. I then go ahead to press the power key to show them.

~~~~~~


Findings:

8 out of the 10 people I showed it to, after seeing my computer boot up, were wholly unimpressed. They claimed that their computers take about the same amount of time to boot up. Most actually quoted that their computer takes about 15 seconds to boot up as well. I challenged them, saying that this is simply impossible, and that I would hold them to it.

Obviously, I was right, and it turned out that their boot times were nowhere near 15 seconds. Most of them had a boot up time of a minute or more. Upon realizing that they were wrong, most were pretty surprised they'd made that mistaken assumption, given how certain they were...


~~~~~

There must be some kind of a cognitive bias going on. Personally, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be that off on something that they do every day (most people turn their computers on/off every day). Perhaps the difference between 15 seconds and 1 minute are simply negligible for most people? - (I refuse to believe this because it seems too outlandish) I find the whole thing pretty baffling, and I'd like to hear your explanations. Although I majored in psychology, I do not remember studying any cognitive biases that describe precisely what's going on here.

[Kraetos]

Who cares about boot time? I feel like it's a silly thing to advertise (Chromebook, I'm looking at you) or care about. Yeah, my HDD based 2008 MacBook Pro takes between 60 and 90 seconds to boot. Who gives a frak? I restart that thing when there's a system update or I need to go into Windows. So like, 3 or 4 times a month, tops.

Mac OS X has insta-wake from sleep for a reason. You're not supposed to turn your computer on and off every day.

As for the answer to your question, most people don't time their computer turning on, so they have no idea how long it actually takes. Humans do not have a very good natural sense of time, especially when we're talking about intervals that are less than an hour.

[stevegong]

Yeah, I don't turn my computer off either, but not the point of this thread, pal.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by stevegong Yeah, I don't turn my computer off either, but not the point of this thread, pal.

You asked why people don't know what their boot time is. It's because most of them don't care or reboot their computer often enough to notice.

[stevegong]

Originally Posted by Kraetos You asked why people don't know what their boot time is. It's because most of them don't care or reboot their computer often enough to notice.

All of the people I showed it to regularly turn their computers on and off. Most daily. How do you not notice something like that? You might as well not notice something like the boot chime.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by stevegong All of the people I showed it to regularly turn their computers on and off. Most daily.

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that they shouldn't be doing that...

If they don't understand that booting daily puts unnecessary strain on the hardware, then yeah, I'm not at all surprised they don't time their computer when it starts up.

How do you not notice something like that?

Like I said in my post, most humans don't have a very good sense of time when it comes to short intervals. If you are paying attention to your computer booting up, then yeah, it's going to seem like it takes forever. (c.f. the expression "A watched pot never boils.")

But on the other hand, if you aren't paying attention (and I am going to assume that these people aren't) and you decide to fiddle with your phone or whatever while your computer is booting up, it's going to seem like it is quicker than it actually is.

[PB PM]

Most people I know start their computers and walk away to do something else, so no they don't notice how long it takes.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by stevegong All of the people I showed it to regularly turn their computers on and off. Most daily. How do you not notice something like that? You might as well not notice something like the boot chime.

No, the boot chime thing is very different.

Why, other than for dick size comparisons, would you intently stare at the computer and count seconds? You turn it on, then take your mind off of it until it's done. Whether it takes 15 seconds or 150 seconds is irrelevant in that: either way, it's way too long to feel instantaneous, so you're not going to focus on it either way.

If the boot chime happened somewhere in the middle of it, you'd be very unlikely to notice it. But stuff that happens near the beginning or towards the end, you do notice: in the first case, because it's right after your action, and in the latter case, because it's right before your next action.

[zippy]

I second what PB PM said. Also, there's the possibility that they are equating boot time with the amount of time it takes to see the Windows XP splash screen, of course, it still takes a little while to finish booting after that screen comes up.

Then there's all the stuff that is still getting started in the background - apps launching, etc.. My iMac takes a full minute or more from the time I can see my desktop/dock until everything is done loading and icons stop bouncing (mail, itunes, eyeTV and a few other background apps). At that point, I can interact with the computer at 'normal speed'. So for me, my computer takes a good couple of minutes before I consider it fully booted.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by PB PM Most people I know start their computers and walk away to do something else, so no they don't notice how long it takes.

This. I come into work, plug my laptop into its docking station, turn it on, then head down to the cafe for coffee. It takes less time to boot than it does for me to return to my desk with coffee and that's all I care about.

[kscherer]

Some people care so deeply about spec-whoring that they don't want to be upstaged by anyone else.

"So what? My computer can do that, too."

People don't like to be patronized, which is why the whole "spec" thing is such a big selling point. Whether it is cars, computers, or cats, everyone wants to feel that they, too, are cool and sophisticated, so their's is always just as good, if not better, than yours.

Keeping up with the Jones's is so ingrained into our modern society that it has become an automatic response whenever someone is shown something cool. I see this all the time in Mac retail. Some PC users always have a computer "that could kick any Mac's ass", or a Droid "with 4G!"

So, when you demonstrate something that is really fast/cool/mind-blowing, a lot of people are pre-programmed to shrug it off as "not that cool" or "so what?" Then, when you hold them to it, they are either blown away that you were right, or they have every excuse in the book for why they couldn't bench-press 340 pounds, today.

Whatever.

As far as people turning their computers off every day, I think that is one of those pre-education things that comes over from Windows. Most of the Mac users I know leave their machines on for weeks or months at a time. Most of the Windows users I know shut down every night. I think it comes from the re-boot problems that are constantly souring the Windows community, whereby frequent restarts "will keep your computer running efficiently!"—which is somewhat true. Mac users don't seem to struggle with that problem, so they are not taught to restart all the time.

Oddly enough, those people who reboot every day should be the most sensitive to boot times, yet that is not the case. They are actually the ones who are most educated to believe that long boot times are normal, and the most difficult to convince that it matters*.

*When you are booting every day, a minute or two at either end of the startup/shutdown cycle adds up pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend …I come into work, plug my laptop into its docking station, turn it on, then head down to the cafe for coffee. It takes less time to boot than it does for me to return to my desk with coffee and that's all I care about.

When some portion of the daily routine becomes monotonous, this is what folks will do to break up the monotony. A more efficient use of time would be to show up to work with coffee in hand, and have a computer that boots in fifteen seconds or less.

Fortunately, most employers are cool with an employee getting a cup of joe whilst their kludge does its thing.

[nikstar101]

Well i boot my computer everyday and i have no idea how long it takes to boot up. I mean it is going to be quite slow as i use an old PowerMac G5 hard drive as the boot drive in my MacPro. But as for the actual length of time.... no idea. Maybe a min or 90 secs??

I think it is one of those things, that someone already mentioned, you don't regularly sit down and watch your Mac boot. You go off and do something else. And even if it did have an SSD when you are in a rush and desperately need to access a computer quick, 16 sec will seem like a long time!!

Off Topic
As for shutting down your computer everyday, i am not sure that in this day and age it wears down the components like it used to. Plus i guess it saves a little on the elec bill!

[alcimedes]

Boot time.

up 40 days currently.

[PB PM]

Oh boy, another silly nerd measuring stick... I haven't rebooting for xx number of days.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by alcimedes Boot time. up 40 days currently.

So you didn't install Security Update 2011-003?

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by nikstar101 Off Topic As for shutting down your computer everyday, i am not sure that in this day and age it wears down the components like it used to. Plus i guess it saves a little on the elec bill!

True, it's not as bad as it used to be, but given that the computer has a dedicated mode for this, why not use it? The computer draws very little power when it's sleeping. The thing that's getting the most strain when you boot up every day is the HD, which is already the most fragile, breakage-prone component in the computer.

Somebody, please, think of the hard drives!

[PB PM]

There isn't much more stress on the HDD between bootup and waking from sleep. Powering off and on is the most stressful time for them.

[Dorian Gray]

The hard drive is switched off whether you switch the computer off or merely put it to sleep.

I don't know why people mistake their boot times by a factor of four or more (I'm a total nerd with things like this, and would never make such a mistake), but I do think this little tale proves how irrelevant boot times are! Geeks are astonished by 15-second boot times, but the average computer user isn't even mildly impressed.

That said, in my experience most well-used Windows XP or Vista boxes take much more than one minute to boot and become responsive. My machine at work takes over five minutes. I've seen home computers so overgrown with junk that they take literally ten minutes. Boot times that long are genuinely annoying for almost everyone.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Who cares about boot time? ... Who gives a frak? I restart that thing when there's a system update or I need to go into Windows. So like, 3 or 4 times a month, tops. Mac OS X has insta-wake from sleep for a reason. You're not supposed to turn your computer on and off every day.

Originally Posted by alcimedes Boot time. up 40 days currently.

^ This.

Spec whores time startup. The rest of us either go for caffeine or restart every update or solstice..

[SpecMode]

Originally Posted by chucker So you didn't install Security Update 2011-003?

Oddly enough, that particular security update didn't require a reboot on either system I installed it on.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by SpecMode Oddly enough, that particular security update didn't require a reboot on either system I installed it on.

Nor mine. (I did reboot anyway.)

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by kscherer When some portion of the daily routine becomes monotonous, this is what folks will do to break up the monotony. A more efficient use of time would be to show up to work with coffee in hand, and have a computer that boots in fifteen seconds or less. Fortunately, most employers are cool with an employee getting a cup of joe whilst their kludge does its thing.

It would be less efficient as I would have to waste precious morning time to drive 5 miles to get coffee I like (i.e. not Dunkin Donut sh!t), then drive 5 miles back to the commuter lot. By this time I would've missed the bus I normally take, and the next one isn't for 10 minutes. So now instead of wasting 5 minutes getting coffee I'm wasting 10 minutes of missed bus time and adding 10 miles of wear and tear on my car.