[chucker]

This might well end up in my long list of never-answered questions in the Genius Bar (damn right I'm bitter!! ), but here we go:

A few weeks ago, I cleaned my MacBook Pro keyboard. In doing so, I removed all keys so I can get underneath as well. You wouldn't believe how much… stuff… is under there.

Anyway, with four exceptions, all keys could be re-inserted afterwards just fine. With three (F1, up, right), I merely had a hard time; thanks to my father's help, they're fine now.

But one (down)… well. I tried so hard to get it in that, in doing so, I removed the rubber knob, which previously must have been glued on or something.

I couldn't find an image of this rubber piece, but I can of the two other key components:



This is for the PowerBook G4 Aluminum, and these are also full-height keys, not half-height like the ones affected, but the principle is basically the same. You have the top part which is some odd mixture of plastic and Aluminum, as I understand it, and which is the part with the label, and the one you actually press with your fingers. Then you have the middle part, also pictured, which seems to be an even stranger plastic-based construct, presumably designed to make the feel more elastic/soft to the touch. Finally, there's a little round, tall rubber(?) piece, hollow inside and shaped sort of like a cone.

That final part seems to be my problem. It serves to connect the two plastic pieces above with the actual key mechanism below, which by the way is virtually invisible; all you really get to see is some transparent film and a few metal parts sticking out to physically connect to the middle plastic part. The rubber part is merely touched, and presumably compresses the air underneath to communicate to the film that the key has been pressed.

It sounds as complicated as it is. It's a really unusual mechanism, but before I sound all down on Apple, it works amazingly well; this is truly one of the best keyboards I've ever had, which, considering its flatness, is all the more astounding.

Anyway, in trying to attach the plastic parts again (which worked on most keys simply by pressing them in hard), I must have dragged the rubber part of its location and loosened its glue or whatever it was, so it was merely laying there, detached.

Now, my father tried to reattach it with some glue of his own, and that worked well enough; we then proceeded to put the plastic parts on again, and that, too, worked. But the key pretty much didn't. You could press it through and then it would work maybe 1/10th of the time. For something you use as frequently as a down arrow key (that also doubles as page down, and is also used in a whole number of keyboard shortcuts, such as navigating down the hierarchy in the Finder), this was, to say the least, hugely disconcerting, and I don't want to hand it in to the shop again because, shall we say, they seemed rather grumpy about it the last time (when the fan broke).

Here's the thing: without the rubber part and the two plastic parts, the key actually works better. Maybe five out of six times. I simply put the finger directly on the film and the metal parts, and it typically registers just fine. It just isn't comfortable, as you might imagine, and it may very well be damaging in the long run, too. Not exactly what I woud like.

So, here's my questions.

1) Does anyone have experience with fully reinserting a MacBook Pro / Aluminum PowerBook key (the two keyboards look and work virtually the same; shouldn't make much difference), including the rubber part?
2) Is my rubber part doomed; do I have to order a new one? It seems alright, but maybe the glue we put on it messed with its function / its "contacts", however the heck they work?
3) Is there a much easier way to clean the keyboard that I should have realized a long time ago? This method worked alright with my iBook, whose keyboard is actually quite similar. How do I pull the whole keyboard out; is there some lock/snap somewhere? Dishwasher, anyone?
4) Should I give bounties for good answers so I actually receive them, or are my questions simply too obscure most of the time?

[turtle]

I'm here for moral support.

I've never pulled the keys off my keyboard. I've been to concerned about messing them up if I did. I do you compressed air on them though.

[zsummers]

1) Does anyone have experience with fully reinserting a MacBook Pro / Aluminum PowerBook key (the two keyboards look and work virtually the same; shouldn't make much difference), including the rubber part?

2) Is my rubber part doomed; do I have to order a new one? It seems alright, but maybe the glue we put on it messed with its function / its "contacts", however the heck they work?

At one point, my "G" key had come off (dog ran across the keyboard) and the middle section (weird white plastic broke. Since I didn't have time to put on a replacement key, I simply glued the top lettered piece to the rubber piece (the keyboard condom). It worked, but only when pressure was supplied that was directly down.

The middle pieces serve to stablize the key (as well as provide the nice bounce)... so you may want to make sure that you've got it stablized correctly. Make sure, especially, that the white middle pieces are all the way in their slots--if they're not, the key will tend to slide off and only produce sideways pressure. I use eyeglass screwdrivers to get under and pop the middle piece into place.

As to the rubber piece, my sense, in general, is that glueing should not be a problem as long as it can provide downward pressure... but of course, that means being super careful about it. I'm pretty sure that the rubber doesn't do anything other than keep crap from getting to the lower portion of the keyboard... I don't think it produces air pressure or anything like that that would require a perfect seal. I think it just transmits the physical pressure from the finger. So I don't think you need to worry too much about getting it perfect.

3) Is there a much easier way to clean the keyboard that I should have realized a long time ago? This method worked alright with my iBook, whose keyboard is actually quite similar. How do I pull the whole keyboard out; is there some lock/snap somewhere? Dishwasher, anyone?

I'd recommend the iFixit Guides, but it doesn't look like they have one for MBP's yet. So...

I'm assuming removing the keyboard is pretty similar to the PowerBook G4. For that, you can pull the keyboard out by first removing the F1 & F11 keys (and perhaps the F2 & F12 keys), unscrewing the two screws you find there. Then, you have to remove the little panel on the back (for access for memory expansion) and remove the long black screw in one of the upper corners (it runs through the comp to the keyboard). After that, you can gently pull up the keyboard and gently remove the cable connecting it to the motherboard. This won't help enormously with cleaning, though, as it will only help you get a little deeper with (for instance) a pressurized air blower. (And of course... disconnect the power and take out the battery first).

Why are you concerned about cleaning below? Mine has a ton of hair (damn you, male pattern baldness!), and it works just fine--the keyboard condom rubber thingys keep the junk from causing too much trouble. Outside of air pressure, yours is the only method I know of to get that deep, deep clean. But I find the process of reattaching keys to be really, really tedious, and not worth just a good clean.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 I'm here for moral support.

Thanks!

I'll need it sooner or later. Raincheck?

Originally Posted by zsummers [..]

Thanks for your info!

I'd recommend the iFixit Guides, but it doesn't look like they have one for MBP's yet. So... I'm assuming removing the keyboard is pretty similar to the PowerBook G4. For that, you can pull the keyboard out by first removing the F1 & F11 keys (and perhaps the F2 & F12 keys), unscrewing the two screws you find there. Then, you have to remove the little panel on the back (for access for memory expansion)

Aaaaactually. I haven't checked if there are screws at those locations, but it should be mentioned that RAM expansion is definitely not there; it's on the bottom side (like on the 17-inch PBG4). They changed that around.

Maybe I should check the 17-inch PBG4 iFixIt guide, then.

I'll look for the screws in any case.

After that, you can gently pull up the keyboard and gently remove the cable connecting it to the motherboard.

Hm, I see. Thanks.

Why are you concerned about cleaning below? Mine has a ton of hair (damn you, male pattern baldness!), and it works just fine

See, the thing is, it doesn't. The hair eventually starts getting tangled in (presumably into the white middle pieces, and some keys start not working as well any more, or not properly at all. I can use a nailfile or whatever thin thing to shift some hair out of the way, but eventually, I do have to take some keys off entirely to get rid of the hair.

--the keyboard condom rubber thingys keep the junk from causing too much trouble. Outside of air pressure, yours is the only method I know of to get that deep, deep clean. But I find the process of reattaching keys to be really, really tedious, and not worth just a good clean.

I might check into air pressure, actually.

[Sketch]

chucker you can check these two websites, might be of help, especially the second one
http://www.takeitapart.net/archives/macbook-pro/
http://www.iraqigeek.com/?p=45

It could be that you the glue you put could be interfering with the connection of that rubber cone. Remove the rubber cone and press with your finger and see whether it works or not. Good luck

[chucker]

Originally Posted by iceman009 Remove the rubber cone and press with your finger and see whether it works or not.

Like I said, the key works fine if I take the plastic and rubber parts off and just use my finger.

Very good links, thank you!

[zsummers]

Hmm... I'm very curious whether you hit on a solution to this, chucker. If you can resolve the mystery of how the mechanisms work, I'll consider you a hero.

[chucker]

Just wanted to bump this up to say that, as far as I can see, all my keys are now up to speed again.

The trick, as far as I can tell, is merely to disconnect the bridge (the white middle section), place it directly on the bottom layer, then insert the rubber cone inside that with the ever-slightest amount of glue, and then, after a few minutes of letting the glue sink in, just pressing the top part on everything. Of course, in reality, it's a lot fiddler than I make it sound.

I'm just glad this annoyance is over after almost two months.

[turtle]

I see the duct tape and bubble gum worked.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 I see the duct tape and bubble gum worked.

Totally.