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Apple Cars Via Foxconn
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-10-17, 16:55

What if Apple is going to buy Foxconn?

https://www.businessinsider.com/foxc...-maker-2021-10

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PB PM
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2021-10-17, 17:02

Unlikely, Foxconn supplies way more companies than Apple. I don't even think Apple is even close to being Foxconn's biggest client, since they make stuff for all the big tech companies (Asus, Apple, Gigabyte, GoPro, Microsoft, etc) which means Apple would have to deal with all of those contracts, not something I could see them wanting to do. Not that anyone seems to talk about that when Foxconn does stuff, people just blame Apple.
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drewprops
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2021-10-17, 17:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I don't even think Apple is even close to being Foxconn's biggest client, since they make stuff for all the big tech companies (Asus, Apple, Gigabyte, Microsoft, etc) which means Apple would have to deal with all of those contracts, not something I could see them wanting to do.
And thus my ignorance about Foxconn was exposed...


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chucker
 
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2021-10-17, 17:47

Besides, I don’t think Apple wants to be in that business.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 14:50

Here's the latest bit of never-gonna-happen insanity.

Quite optimistic.

I can't even imagine sitting there and trusting a fallible, man-made piece of tech to brake, accelerate, steer. I'd have a heart attack with the first two miles. I just don't see this happening. And even if you can reassure/placate everyone on the tech side of it, there's just that built-in, "gotta be in control" that most people have when it comes to operating a vehicle. I don't know how that is overcome. I really don't. It may take a generation or two dying off, and people like my niece and nephew (16 and 18) who've grown up in a world of nothing but tech, automated-this, digital-that, smart-this, app-that, etc. to fully buy in and see it as "normal". Hell, it might even be their kids, I don't know.

I can ride in a no pedal/no steering wheel thing at Disneyworld, sure...but it's on a track and there's nobody coming the opposite direction, or criss-crossing in front of me. Outside of that? Forget it.

I'll need about 10 years of evidence that these aren’t fender-bender (or worse) orgies before I could ever go "okay, I had it wrong...".

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-11-18 at 15:05.
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Dave
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2021-11-18, 15:13

My dad’s Model 3 is pretty good on the self-driving front. On the highway, anyway. Nowhere near good enough to not need a steering wheel and pedals, though.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 15:20

Exactly. That’s very optimistic to me. Open highway is one thing, but on surface streets around a big mall area or college campus (intersections, red lights, cross walks, bicyclists, bus stops, pedestrians, dozens/hundreds of other cars all going in various directions, roundabouts, turning lanes, etc.)…yikes. Body parts everywhere!

Apple does have a record of walking into fields they had no part of - music, cell phones - and forever changing things. Maybe they’ve hit on something and believe that another 3-4 years of testing/development gets them where they want to be.

But man…that’s huge. If my iPhone acts up or I can’t download/play a Chris Isaak song, nobody’s gonna die or be crippled for life. Much higher stakes, obviously.
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chucker
 
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2021-11-18, 15:30

This story is horseshit. An SAE level 5 autonomous vehicle is decades away and probably won’t happen.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 15:33

I thought it sounded a bit much. Maybe they meant to say 2035?

Like flying cars, I don’t think it’ll happen either. They’ll certainly get smarter, and technology will play a role in improving things, of course. No great leap there. My friend’s Subaru and my Mom’s new Passport are very advanced on the safety/sensor/helping you out fronts, and will only continue being more so, absolutely.

But I’m pretty sure I won’t see a road full of self-driving cars in my lifetime (and, with any luck, I’ve got another 2-3 decades in me).
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Dave
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2021-11-18, 15:46

Assuming Apple does make an electric car, do you think they’ll use the existing open charging standards or give it a Lightning port?
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 15:49

They’ll put it on the bottom, guaranteed.

We’ve all seen that funny pic.
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PB PM
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2021-11-18, 17:44

Plug on the bottom, and a special connector at charging stations only in the San Francisco Bay Area for the first 5 years. Expanding to the rest of California by 2035.
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chucker
 
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2021-11-18, 17:54

We can't wait to see where you drive with it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2021-11-18, 17:56

I drove a Subaru with the lane sensing thing turned on and I felt like a bowling ball with the gutter-guards engaged. Boing-boing-boing as the thing made little corrections. No "heart", no "feel", just very precise, very un-rehearsed, quick steering wheel actions that made me very uncomfortable.

Turn that damned thing off!

Yeah, the self-driving thing is out a good long ways, and I honestly don't think it has as much to do with the auto-cars than it does with the still-under-human-control transportation system, i.e. cars, motorbikes, bicycles, nikes, etc.

Humans are in the way, and I think that's a good thing. I don't particularly want a transportation system that can be completely shut down by a hacker. Some elements can be right now, but I can still get the hell out of town, regardless the hackers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
They’ll put it on the bottom, guaranteed.
It'll be magnetic, so there's that.

But, you do have to get the alignment right so it doesn't snap onto every screw and other piece of metal beneath the car.

And it's a good thing we've gotten past that "thin" stage, lest the world's fat people not be able to squeeze into one.

And if Siri's gonna be driving this thing, I ain't ever getting in it!

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chucker
 
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2021-11-18, 18:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Yeah, the self-driving thing is out a good long ways, and I honestly don't think it has as much to do with the auto-cars than it does with the still-under-human-control transportation system, i.e. cars, motorbikes, bicycles, nikes, etc.
Yup. Not to mention all kinds of traffic signs and markings. Are the washed away regular markings the relevant ones, or the also-washed away temporary construction work ones? Is this road sign current, or the other one? Humans can intuit this in ways machine learning cannot. (For example, they may have, in the back of their mind, "oh yeah, my neighbor told me about the construction work with poor signage going on here".)

Also, just look at where autonomous vehicles do work, and have worked for decades: metros.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2021-11-18, 18:20

You mean those things with rails?

There's that animated movie, Robots, where Rodney Copperbottom is introduced to the metropolitan Cross Town Express, and that's what I think of when this topic comes up.

Sure, it works, but …

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chucker
 
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2021-11-18, 18:28

There's also LIDAR-guided articulated buses, which are sort of a bus-tram hybrid. You need special road markings, but no tracks, so deployment is a lot cheaper; OTOH, collisions with other traffic are more likely.

But yeah, those systems will be driverless much faster than cars will, and perhaps truly driverless cars will never be practical (nor necessary).
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 18:31

I just don’t see the point in any of it. A solution in search of a problem. Just tighten up/enforce the texting/phone use while driving idiocy, and make the driving tests more stringent. Any idiot can drive and that’s the problem. All this other stuff is just noise and people trying to create some big, unasked-for movement/initiative that’s never going to pan out in the real word. Like all those bridges/highways/trains to nowhere, and any other failed, wasteful stuff.
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chucker
 
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2021-11-18, 18:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
I just don’t see the point in any of it. A solution in search of a problem. Just tighten up/enforce the texting/phone use while driving idiocy, and make the driving tests more stringent.
Well, one point could be to eventually phase out individual ownership of cars in favor of rentals, which you then don't have to drive. You just hail one, it picks you up, and takes you somewhere. Which brings us a step further in that people won't even need a license. But, again, public transport is already a thing that exists, and does all that more safely and efficiently.

Another point is for Silicon Valley venture capitalists to further enrich themselves with pointlessly hyped startups, which is a favorite pastime of theirs.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2021-11-18, 19:03

When the city is on fire and everyone needs to evacuate, who gets the auto-car first? Does it go to the person with the most money, with the biggest boobs?

I'll just get in my car and drive myself out, thankyouverymuch!

If my wife and I get into tiff and I feel like going for a drive, waiting for 30 minutes for the stupid car to arrive just takes all of the urgency out of the deal. How on Earth would I cope? I gotta get away from her right @#$% now, and I have to wait on this sumbitch?!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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PB PM
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2021-11-18, 20:05

That kind of rental model would be a nightmare for business owners who need to have a work vehicle. Hail a work truck, great. Oh cannot get one right now, yikes. Call the client, "sorry, couldn't get a work truck today, cannot finish job xyz till Thursday", client response, "but my roof is leaking now", "sorry, cannot help you." For an office worker who is working from home 50-75% of the time? Sure, but anyone who has to be somewhere and be dependable? No way.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-18, 20:13

Exactly. Again, things are probably okay. Just work on the shitty drivers and we all have it better.
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Dave
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2021-11-18, 22:59

Dunno, I like Tesla’s self-driving (to the extent they have it anyway). It can be hard finding a straight stretch of road without anyone near you when the podcast you’re listening to ends and you’ve gotta poke at your phone to start something else. On the highways, I mean. On surface streets either a red light or a parking lot will usually come along soon enough.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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PB PM
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2021-11-18, 23:10

As much as I dislike Siri, that's exactly the kind of stuff it is for, IMO.
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Dave
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2021-11-19, 02:13

I use Siri for listening to music all the time, but I haven’t gotten it to work with podcasts or audiobooks (particularly when I don’t know which podcasts have new episodes, or when I only bother listening to the “interesting” episodes (although, “looking through a list of podcasts for one that sounds interesting” isn’t something I do while I’m driving… that requires too much visual attention)).

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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chucker
 
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2021-11-19, 06:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
That kind of rental model would be a nightmare for business owners who need to have a work vehicle. Hail a work truck, great. Oh cannot get one right now, yikes. Call the client, "sorry, couldn't get a work truck today, cannot finish job xyz till Thursday", client response, "but my roof is leaking now", "sorry, cannot help you." For an office worker who is working from home 50-75% of the time? Sure, but anyone who has to be somewhere and be dependable? No way.
I don't think we should avoid pursuing technology because all edge cases haven't been covered yet.

A ton of car traffic is simply dumb commuting from home to work, and then back from work to home. It doesn't require a truck, or a special kind of car, in fact it arguably shouldn't require individual traffic at all. More specialized use cases like a handyman's work truck aren't a good fit for a hailing service, no doubt.

(but, again, I think this rumor is utter nonsense)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-11-19, 07:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Dunno, I like Tesla’s self-driving (to the extent they have it anyway). It can be hard finding a straight stretch of road without anyone near you when the podcast you’re listening to ends and you’ve gotta poke at your phone to start something else.
That’s the most 2021 first-world “problem” I’ve ever heard. Pull off to the shoulder.
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PB PM
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2021-11-19, 10:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I don't think we should avoid pursuing technology because all edge cases haven't been covered yet.

A ton of car traffic is simply dumb commuting from home to work, and then back from work to home. It doesn't require a truck, or a special kind of car, in fact it arguably shouldn't require individual traffic at all. More specialized use cases like a handyman's work truck aren't a good fit for a hailing service, no doubt.

(but, again, I think this rumor is utter nonsense)
Which is why I said hailing is fine for office workers, because they are not in a situation where it matters when they get where they are going. It will take a different generation for something like that to take off though, most people over 30 will be set in their way in terms of vehicle ownership. For people who live in the core of big cities that’s a good model, we could nuke a lot of street parking for more useful things. For anyone who doesn’t, it’s more complicated.

As someone who would hates travelling with strangers, I wouldn’t go for it even if I did work in an office. The only time I take transit is for stuff in the downtown core, so that where I stand on the matter.
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chucker
 
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2021-11-19, 10:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Which is why I said hailing is fine for office workers, because they are not in a situation where it matters when they get where they are going. It will take a different generation for something like that to take off though, most people over 39 will be set in their way in terms of vehicle ownership.
Yeah, I think that's right. But I'm not entirely sure. Some cities like Paris have started locking down individual traffic hard.

We've probably seen the peak of "everyone needs a car at age 16".
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-19, 10:11

I do understand/appreciate tech and “smart” stuff in many facets of life. I just question the need/practicality of it being everywhere, and possibly creating/introducing more issues than it ever really solves/improves.

Sometimes it feels like things veer that way, as time goes on. I’m sorry, I just don’t need my toothbrush, water faucet, fridge, vacuum, etc. all talking to/outsmarting each other. And making things I’ve done myself, for decades, a convoluted, complex chore or hassle…dealing with battery and connectivity alerts, updates, notifications. Making me lazy and a slave to some of this unnecessary, unasked-for stuff.

That’s not “progress” to me. It’s noise and needless complexity to things that shouldn’t have it. And I hate commercials that tout that stuff because they truly paint a horseshit picture that people blindly lap up and throw in with.

“If I just had a $4,800 smart fridge, my life would be so much easier…”.

You sure about that? Because if you’re truly too “busy” to count popsicles and yogurt, and check your milk level/date, I’m afraid no tech in the world is going to save you. Your problems lie elsewhere and aren’t gonna be fixed by beep-boop-beep and iThis and SmartThat. They'll probably just multiply and be a whole new set of distractions/juggling objects.

Maybe, instead, consider putting your damn phone down occasionally, quit overbooking your life (your kids don't have to play six sports and play four instruments, I promise), ease up on binge watching 5-12 hours of shitty fare (that you're paying extra for the privilege) and hop off InstaTwitTokFace and you’ll magically rediscover hours of time you thought you lost. Everyone is their own worst enemy with this stuff, I believe.

Tech has absolutely enriched our lives, but it's also cuffed our wrists behind our back and bent us over a table. And given us a really warped sense of what "perfection" looks like.

Balance is probably the word. I think the pendulum needs to drift back the other way a bit, for many.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-11-19 at 10:26.
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