User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Apple Products »

2021 MacBook Pros


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
2021 MacBook Pros
Page 2 of 6 Previous 1 [2] 3 4 5 6  Next Thread Tools
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-10-19, 10:53

Woohoo!!! Thanks!

This makes me think that my existing MBP power extensions will work??!!



...
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-10-19, 11:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Just wanting a second set of eyes here:

Do I need to get the:

"Power Adapter Extension Cable"?

Also:

What about the "USB-C to MagSafe 3" cable?
No. A set of MagSafe cable and power adapter are included with the device.

However, there's a $20 option on the 14-inch to get a bigger power adapter if you want fast charging. Higher configurations of the 14-inch and all configurations of the 16-inch always have fast charging.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-10-19, 11:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Woohoo!!! Thanks!

This makes me think that my existing MBP power extensions will work??!!



...
I think the extension cord is still the same as ever, yes.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 11:37

Drew, are you getting one of these? Which one, exactly?
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-19, 11:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I think the extension cord is still the same as ever, yes.
It is.
  quote
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2021-10-19, 13:07

The notch is a scourge upon the land and the worst possible solution to the problem they were trying to solve. Otherwise, I like everything about the new MBPs. The only way to improve them (aside from removing that obscene notch) would be to have HDMI 2.1 instead of 2.0 and add an ethernet port. But I can deal with both of those.

If I weren’t the hatiest of notch haters, I might get one. I mean, I might anyway, but the chances would’ve been much higher without the *#!&$@ notch.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 13:36

So, what I'm hearing is - and correct me if I'm wrong...you're not a fan of the notch?








I'm actually quite confused about it, to be completely honest. The various pics at Apple's site make it look odd.

What would happen in a situation where a certain application had a boatload of menu options (File, Edit, etc.) that went way across the top of the screen and eventually bumped into the notch area? Or is the resolution so high on these things that just isn't a possibility at this point? That even an app with a lot of menu headings would still not reach all the way to the notch area?

That seems like a bit of a dice-roll on Apple's part. "What are the chances some application is going to have so many menu headers that it spans all the way across th...oh shit!"

Would it not have been easier to keep the nice small side bezels (no complaints/weirdness there) but then the top, just like the bottom, where it hinges to the body, being enough of a bezel to accommodate that camera and whatever else is in there?

I don't hate the notch, but I also don't really see/understand why that came to be the decided-on design. I don't think anyone would've squawked with a slightly taller, but still quite thin compared to previous MacBook Pros, top bezel housing the cameras. I don't think the display should be intruded on. They did it on the phone because they wanted a full-face design and, for now, that's really the only way. But those constraints weren't a thing on a 14" or 16" notebook screen. Nobody was insisting these things be bezel-free.

It's striking me as an "okay, you can...but did you need to?" kinda thing. They obviously wanted to keep symmetrical bezel around three sizes. But I think the solution - pooching something down into the display itself - wasn't truly necessary.

Was there ever anything in the HIG stuff about "leave the screen the hell alone"? Seems like there would be, because you can't ever fully know/predict how every application is going to be, or built/laid out. Whatever sliver of working space one might gain (it ain't that much) doesn't seem worth such an upending of things. I've been thinking about this today, looking at pics on Apple's site. It just seems a lot for a little.

I don't hate it, but it just seems...weird.
  quote
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2021-10-19, 14:06

You are not wrong 😄

Some of the screenshots they showed during the event had the app’s menus (I think it was Xcode, but don’t hold me to that) continue on the right side of the notch, which is visually confusing and seems likely to make people forget about menus that get put on the right of the notch. There are three solutions (off the top of my head):
1) Skip the webcam: Probably not ideal in a “work from home” world, but staring at a typing-height screen eight hours a day is horrible for your neck so you should be using an external monitor anyway, which puts the laptop webcam in the wrong place, so you’ll probably need a dedicated webcam anyway.
2) Do a bump-out: Admittedly ugly if done carelessly, but I’ve seen them done well enough to meet what I’d consider reasonable aesthetic requirements.
3) Leave the top bezel at 9mm instead of shrinking it to 3.5mm (or whatever it is): This (or the bump-out) is probably my preferred solution. I suppose it’s possible that having such a big disparity between the side and top bezel thicknesses would’ve been weird, but then do we really need the side bezels to be so thin? I mean, you’ve gotta have room to touch the thing somewhere, and a thicker bezel would let them strength the display’s frame. I’m not aware of evidence that it’s particularly flimsy, but tougher is better when it comes to things that might get thwacked by people walking by or quickly reclining airplane seats or whatever.

This is the core of why I hate it so much. I think I can probably get used to having to look on both sides of the notch for menus (something that’d be far less confusing on Windows or Linux where the menus are typically attached to the window instead of the top of the screen where they belong), but it’s such an unnecessary compromise. It’s more form over function “just because we can”, except this time you can’t “fix” it with a dongle.

Edit: Oh! I forgot some stuff! WRT “learning to look on both sides of the notch”, how is that going it affect muscle memory for people who normally use an external monitor as their main display? They won’t even be able to settle into a routine since it’ll change depending on whether they’re at their desks.

The menu layout logic is one more bit of code that needs to be maintained, one more place for bugs to creep in. And what happens if/when Apple eventually figures out how to avoid the notch? How long will they keep supporting notched displays in newer OSs, and what happens when they finally drop it? Will these screens “lose” 80 pixels (or whatever it is) of height on that OS? Will menus get drawn “under” the notch and be inaccessible? Will that version of the OS just not run on laptops with notched displays? These complications are all just so avoidable!

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.

Last edited by Dave : 2021-10-19 at 14:21.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 14:16

Yeah, that's kinda how I see it. I don't see the real plus or benefit from doing this. Just seems like someone wanted to do something clever/quirky and it managed to get greenlit.

"Wait, you were serious? I thought you were just goofing around with that idea."

Everything could've stayed in the top bezel, absolutely.

We'll see how long a) it lasts, and b) if it extends to other Macs.

Latest MacBook Air rumors over the weekend seemed to point to it appearing there as well. I guess Apple's looking to ditch bezels, but they don't need to go nuts in the process.

I remember them selling their own webcam a thousand years ago. iSight? It was Firewire-based. They could do so again, as that sort of thing has really taken off since then, but most of their products, minus the two desktops, have cameras). I'd just hate to own a Mac mini and have to resort to some third-party camera.

I'm spoiled...I've always enjoyed first-party Apple stuff - iSight, AirPort, etc. - for its simplicity and I never worried about it being sketchy or misbehaving.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-19, 14:30

Apple's use of the notch is actually quite good. It does not interfere with anything whatsoever, while giving us more screen space. It appears that the only use of the notch — at all — is for the menu bar, which is mostly in the way, anyway. When a movie is playing everything looks normal. The notch is not in use, but just black. When an app is in full-screen mode, the notch area is black. The only time it seems to pop up is for the menu bar, which is just a row of text and buttons. I think it's an excellent use of space that would otherwise be just a black bezel. I have yet to see an image where it is anything other than black, or the menu bar.

I mean, look what it replaced: A black bezel that otherwise did nothing other than be black.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 14:43

Just seems like a distraction, I don't know. The fact that Apple seems to be masking/downplaying it all over their site in all the photography (renderings?) seems to back that.

It just strikes me as a solution in search of a problem, that's all. I don't hate it, it would never keep me from buying one, I fully accept that a redesigned 2022 Air may go the same route, etc.

But it's just weird. It requires a little bit of thinking/acknowledgement/adjustment for something that never should. I just find that a tad off-putting and un-Apple-y.

But, if it succeeds, in another couple of years we won't even think twice about it. Still, it would be nice to be able to blame it on Jony Ive. I think I miss that more than anything.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-10-19, 14:48

Also keep in mind that Apple often plays chess always thinking about their next 3 future moves.

I don't want FaceID on the Mac, but I'm sure some people do.
If the notch is going to be a requirement for FaceID, Apple is just thinking several moves ahead here.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 14:55

After years of FaceID on their iPhones, it seems they could've done this yesterday and immediately quelled some of the squawking. But, even then, a notch for FaceID isn't required. This all could've gone in the bezel as it has for years. They wanted to do this, for whatever reason(s).

It was a deliberate choice for stylistic reasons vs. practical ones, IMO. Ohmigosh, Ive's ghost lingers!

The notch exists on the flagship phones for a specific reason...one that doesn't really apply or make sense on a Mac with a larger display and no (reasonable) limits on overall size or bezel width. It's more like "well, our phones have it...let's pare down the MacBook's bezels and put a notch there too!"

Which I find a bit goofy, and unasked for. Remember Steve's big point when discussing the iMac G4's design?

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-19 at 15:06.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-10-19, 15:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Drew, are you getting one of these? Which one, exactly?
Top of the line, if I can.

Remember: I'm on a 7 year old machine right now and loving it, so I will squeeze value out of the machine.

...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-19, 15:05

What it is is a 1/4" of screen space that you didn't have before. That's not nothing.

Also, of course they're hiding it. It appears "useless" until the menu bar comes along, and then it's "useful". So, it only shows when it serves a purpose. Otherwise, why show it? It's just a row of buttons interrupted in the middle by a camera, just like the iPhone. No one talks about the iPhone notch any longer other than Android fans. The iPhone "notch" serves a purpose. It provides home to indicators in an otherwise useless space on the front of the phone, so they're out of the way and provide more screen real estate for the app.

The new MacBook Pro "notch" serves an identical purpose.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-10-19, 15:10

Real-life experience will tell how distracting this is, especially when you're in Light Mode. A fat dark blob right in the center of the menu bar.

But I've never found it distracting on my iPhone. In fact, I go through entire days of not noticing it at all. It's a bummer that the status bar shows far fewer items (but I find it hardly matters since you can swipe down from Control Center to get them all), and it looks just plain weird when in landscape with the video fully zoomed in (but I rarely do that, since the aspect ratio is so unusual anyway).

I guess if the display were 16:9, it would be painful to watch full-screen video. But it's taller than 16:10, even, so… I dunno. I get the impression you'll hardly notice, especially in Dark Mode (which I'm not fond of).

I would also guess someone will make a tool to simply move the menu bar back below the camera. You'll still have a 16:10 resolution, and the notch becomes a bezel.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-10-19, 15:12

I'm more worried about the larger iMac having white bezels, than I am about this notch.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-19, 15:15

I think it's a non-issue being made an issue of. In 4 years it will be forgotten about. And, if Apple listens to the complaining, then we'll all complain even more when they revert back and we lose that extra screen space.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 15:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Top of the line, if I can.
When you say "top of the line", are you talking a 16" model, all maxed out?

That would be amazing.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-19, 15:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I'm more worried about the larger iMac having white bezels, than I am about this notch.
My gut feeling is that a larger iMac - with that 30"(?) display - would almost surely get the "pro" designation (and requiring the M1 Pro/Max to power it all) and, therefore, stick with the silver/space grey colors and the black bezel.

It's just hard for me to imagine a large, high-end iMac in colors/white bezel. I bet they position it as a "serious" pro machine, and keep the MacBook Pro stylings. And priced accordingly...$1,999+, if not $2,199+ (that big display, the Pro/Max AS onboard, higher stock RAM/SSD (16GB/512GB), etc.

I can imagine, however, a new, redesigned MacBook Air (whether "Air" remains in the name or not) getting a white bezel to tie it to the iMac a bit more. Colors? Probably.

I think - I hope - we're going back to a more clear delineation of "pro" and "for everyone else" Macs in the coming year or so, as I mocked up here a month or so ago.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-22, 12:17

Woohoo! We just got 4 14" MacBook Pro's in stock!

WOOT!!

16/512 base models.

All wrapped up in their dull, brown cardboard, and stuck on embargo until he 26th, which means we can't even open the brown box to look at the white box!

Contracts! Phooey!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-10-22, 12:48

Do you guys do floor models from stock or do you get special machines for that? I'm sure you won't be putting one of these on display quickly.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-22, 14:00

Stock models for display. Apple does not floor our inventory, at all! (We do, however, get a discount on a "floor model", but it has to be specced out.) Yes, we will be putting one out, because the screen will sell them.

FYI, Macrumors has a photo and video of what appears to be a Premier Partner (like us) taking their chances with their contractual NDA. According to the NDA the computers are required to remain in the back, inside their cardboard shipping boxes, unopened, until Tuesday, October 26.

And the dude's face is out there. We will not take that risk! Apple contracts are not to be taken lightly.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2021-10-22 at 14:10.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-10-22, 14:26

Just like the iPhones. Box, opening screen and all. So unified for better or worse.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-22, 14:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Stock models for display. Apple does not floor our inventory, at all! (We do, however, get a discount on a "floor model", but it has to be specced out.) Yes, we will be putting one out, because the screen will sell them.

FYI, Macrumors has a photo and video of what appears to be a Premier Partner (like us) taking their chances with their contractual NDA. According to the NDA the computers are required to remain in the back, inside their cardboard shipping boxes, unopened, until Tuesday, October 26.

And the dude's face is out there. We will not take that risk! Apple contracts are not to be taken lightly.
No doubt. That guy is probably gonna lose his relations with Apple for doing this.

Kinda stupid.

If you're dying to open it and peek around, fine. But don't film yourself doing it and making it to where everyone knows who you are. How stupid!

He's willing to trade a good working partnership with Apple for "look at me!" fleeting Internet "fame"/likes/comments. Bozo.

PS - The notch will make its way to every Mac with a built-in screen, guaranteed. Whether it makes sense or not isn't the point. It's going to be a "look", I'm betting. Now that they know they can shrink down those bezels on the MacBook Pro, you'll see it on the new Air, the larger iMac and some future revision of the 24" iMac. It'll be a thing, and all Macs, 1-2 years from now, will have as small, nonexistent a bezel as possible.

I think this new MacBook Pro was their test case. And since Apple HQ hasn't been burned down as a result...

"Ahh...we can proceed as planned. Good..."
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-10-22, 14:29

Yep!
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-10-22, 15:21

I love it.

I only wish I could decide between the iMac (but only 16 Gigs!) and the MBP (but boring colors and $700 more!).
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-22, 16:30

Are we thinking the 16GB will be as high as the M1, M2, etc. (the non-Pro/Max versions) will go for the foreseeable future? Getting 32GB in an iMac would require a future version with at least an M1 Pro (even if the machine itself isn't called "iMac Pro"?

Or could one of the features of an otherwise non-pro M2 be a higher (32GB) RAM option?



RAM, in and of itself, isn't a "pro" feature, right? At some point, as has been the case all these years, 8GB RAM stock is going to be seen as "not enough, out of the box" and 16GB stock will be the new standard (just as 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB used to be). Even on non-pro Macs, won't there be something else to step up to? Maybe not with the M2, but the M3 or later (whenever it's decided that 8GB stock and 16GB max are no longer cutting it)?

At some point, in the coming 3-6 years, even a ~$999 Air (or whatever it's called then) would be able to go to 32GB?
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-10-22, 17:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Are we thinking the 16GB will be as high as the M1, M2, etc. (the non-Pro/Max versions) will go for the foreseeable future?
Nah.

The M2 might still max out at 16. For the M3, I find that less likely. By the time the M4 hits, I would find that quite surprising (assuming intervals of about a year each).

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Getting 32GB in an iMac would require a future version with at least an M1 Pro (even if the machine itself isn't called "iMac Pro"?
Right, that's what I'm lamenting. I might have impulse-bought the iMac earlier this year if it weren't for that limitation. Which is not to say that "lol Apple dumb", just that it was this one little thing that made it a bit of a bummer for my needs/wants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
At some point, as has been the case all these years, 8GB RAM stock is going to be seen as "not enough, out of the box" and 16GB stock will be the new standard (just as 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB used to be). Even on non-pro Macs, won't there be something else to step up to? Maybe not with the M2, but the M3 or later (whenever it's decided that 8GB stock and 16GB max are no longer cutting it)?

At some point, in the coming 3-6 years, even a ~$999 Air (or whatever it's called then) would be able to go to 32GB?
Exactly. Matter of time.

~~~

Some brief nerdery:
  • The M1 has two RAM chips. They're either 4 GB each (for a total of 8), or 8 GB each (for a total of, y'know).
  • The M1 Pro also appears to have two RAM chips, and the M1 Max has four of them.

Why does the M1 Max max (har) out at 64 GB, twice as much as the M1 Pro? Because it has twice as many chips. But wait, the M1 Pro seems to have as many chips as the M1?

Yes, but the M1 Pro and Max's RAM is LPDDR5, whereas the M1's is LPDDR4X. So, while most of the M1 Pro and Max was not a modernization (the chips are mostly the same as the M1, just quite a few more of them), the RAM was.

And I think what's going on here is that LPDDR5 chips are available in higher densities than 4X; in other words, you can fit twice as much RAM in the same chip as before.

~~~

TL;DR: I think we'll see a 32 GB MacBook Air as soon as Apple adds LPDDR5 support to their consumer Mac chip. And I'm guessing that'll happen either in the M2 (next year) or in the M3 (2023).
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-22, 22:27

Since it’s unified memory I think it’s worth bumping as high as your budget allows.

I’d trade the HDMI for another TB4 port… hot take, I know. Just seems foolish to compromise it with a 2.0 port instead of 2.1…
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 2 of 6 Previous 1 [2] 3 4 5 6  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping Track of 6900 MacBook Airs and 100 MacBook Pros cozmo General Discussion 15 2012-05-25 05:37
New MacBook Pros (2010-04) chucker Apple Products 242 2010-06-02 12:47
ETA of next MacBook Pros? apple007 Speculation and Rumors 40 2007-05-09 10:33
Differences between Macbook Pros? digitalprimate Purchasing Advice 20 2007-03-13 13:53
Black Metal for future MacBook Pros or MacBook? runner91786 Speculation and Rumors 0 2006-06-06 11:20


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:24.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2021, AppleNova