[Veej007]

hey guys

g3 dual usb ibook 700mhz, 384mb ram

when i try to install 10.3.5 or 10.2, the installer launches but can't detect the hard drive. when i run the apple hardware test, however, everything passes, even the hard drive, even in the extended test.

1) just replaced the hard drive two weeks ago. worked flawlessly after that, except for the fact that upon startup it would briefly display the folder/question mark "cannot find startup disk" icon before detecting osx and booting.

2) started getting tons of kernel panics when i installed protools le 6.1. updated it to 6.4 and everything was cool again.

3) the next day, i couldn't find my startup disk... period. no amount of wrangling could help this.

4) tried to target disk the laptop to grab my files, and it worked but was very slow so i decided to nix the idea as i already had another backup.

5) i tried to reformat. everything worked fine, including detecting the disk, but it would hang at random points in the installation. i had to restart it mid-install a couple of times and start the installation again from scratch.

6) started getting kernel panics at startup (grey screen with the "prohibited" sign); couldn't boot from cd as the error would happen right away

7) zapped pram and nvram via control/option/p/r; the kernel panics at startup went away. now i can boot from the cd, but it doesn't show a hard drive for me to install to.

8) tried re-zapping the pram a few times via control/option/p/r and also via option-f, which brings up a command line interface.

9) disk utility doesn't see the hard drive either, just the os install cd.

10) "choose startup disk" from the "installer" menu only gives me network startup as an option

11) i have additional macs available, so i figured i'd try target disking it and installing the os from the other computer... only now, it won't boot up in target disk mode.


any ideas? remember, the hard drive was just replaced, and still passes the hardware test... something mega-screwy here...

[FFL]

My best guess is that the ribbon cable connection to either the drive or the logic board is loose, from when you replaced the drive. If you boot from CD and Disk Utility doesn't see the hard drive, you have a hardware or connection problem of some sort.

[Veej007]

I got it started in target disk mode and decided that the best thing to do would be to do a Superformat, so I told Disk Utility to write zeros to every sector. It was obviously going to take some time, so I left to do some other things and then came back. The window said "creating partition map" and the progress bar was about halfway through. After waiting around for forty five minutes or so, the progress bar hadn't moved. Hanging during a format sounds suspiciously like hanging during a clean install, so I rebooted and now we're back to the computer refusing to start up in target disk mode.

What does it mean if the drive is working intermittently?

The computer is now up and running with OS X installed on an external firewire drive. How can I get my internal drive back?

[FFL]

If you haven't already, then double-check the drive connections as mentioned above.

If those are all good, then you either have a logic board problem, or a bad hard drive. Trying another drive in the same notebook, or trying the suspect drive in another notebook, will narrow that down and isolate your problem.

[Ebby]

I'd say your drive is dying. Sometimes S.M.A.R.T. can fib to you. Exchange the drive for a new one if you can. Also run the hardware test CD a few times in a row. I'm suspicious of the hard drive, but can't rule out the logic board problem.

Oh yea, when a hard drive was crashing on my Pismo, (much like you describe) hardware test reported it as a logic board problem even though it was not. Scared the crap out of me, but I looked up the error code on google and that error covered many possibilities.

[warren0728]

i had the same problem on my pb and was ready to go buy a new harddrive.

This may sound crazy but it worked for me. boot from the cd and then format the harddrive as a DOS disk (yep as a dos disk). Then reboot from the cd again and then format as MAC OSX EXTENDED....it worked for me and saved me the cost of a new harddrive!

ww

[Veej007]

how do i get at those connections to check them?

[FFL]

Originally Posted by Veej007 how do i get at those connections to check them?

The same way you installed the drive. I'm talking about the ribbon cable that connects to the drive on one end, and the logic board on the other end.

[midwinter]

We're assuming this person installed a new drive on an iBook?

[FFL]

Yep.
From the initial post:

1) just replaced the hard drive two weeks ago. worked flawlessly after that, except for the fact that upon startup it would briefly display the folder/question mark "cannot find startup disk" icon before detecting osx and booting

[warren0728]

veej....try what i posted....i bet it works

ww

[midwinter]

FFL: I didn't take that to mean that the poster had personally replaced the drive, although it's certainly possible.

[FFL]

sure - otherwise, if he *paid* someone to install it for him, I would hope he'll take it back to them and tell them there is a problem

[midwinter]

Agreed. But again, I was just figuring he/she posted here first to rule out a software problem. At any rate, it's neither here nor there, since this is pretty clearly a hardware issue.

[FFL]

yes it is

[Veej007]

warren: problem is, i can't see the drive to format it at all

[warren0728]

oic....with my problem the install program wouldn't see the drive but the disk utility could.....and it started when i tried formating and writing zeros to disk. If disk utility doesn't see it then it must be a hargdware problem (like everyone else has been saying).

good luck!

ww

[Veej007]

ok. i'm still finding it hard to believe that i have had yet another hard drive fail on me (i've had an absurd amount of that recently) so i'm going to try target disking it as much as possible for the next few days and hopefully i'll get it to start/format/etc

how can i determine whether it's just loose power cables/ribbon cables or a thoroughly dead drive?

[Ebby]

A loose cable can be fixed by pressing on the connections to the drive.

A dying drive behaves much like what you are describing.

It is time to run round-the-clock smart checks and TRY TO HAVE IT EXCHANGED ASAP. If your are using your drive for a month or so, "they" may not accept an exchange anymore.

There is obviously a problem somewhere. Putting the drive in an external enclosure (USB or Firewire) may help if you try and backup to another mac.

Again, time is not on your side here.

[FFL]

how can i determine whether it's just loose power cables/ribbon cables or a thoroughly dead drive?

well, not to lose patience with ya or anything, but that question has been answered at least twice in this thread. Since you've yet to tell us exactly how and where your computer got its new hard drive, we can only narrow it down to the following two choices:

Either you put the drive in yourself, in which case you already know how to disassemble your computer and check the cables,

OR

you need to ask the person who put the new hard drive in for you, to check the cable connections by disassembling the computer and verifying the connections of the hard drive ribbon cable.

Really, we're very helpful here, but we'd prefer not to answer the same question 2, 3, or 4 times. I truly hope this answer is specific enough to help you.

[Veej007]

right, i was just hoping for a simple, don't-have-to-take-the-whole-bloody-thing-apart diagnostic that i could do myself, as my tech guy is going to want to charge me for labor again since the bum drive is not his fault.

[ghoti]

A bad drive may not be his fault, but if he screwed up the connections it would - and for that, you shouldn't have to pay. But it looks like you don't have much choice in any case ...

[FFL]

Originally Posted by Veej007 right, i was just hoping for a simple, don't-have-to-take-the-whole-bloody-thing-apart diagnostic that i could do myself, as my tech guy is going to want to charge me for labor again since the bum drive is not his fault.

If there is a loose internal connection, it may very well be his fault. Not sure if you'll get him to see it that way, though.

was it a newly purchased drive? then it can at least be exchanged under warranty if it's bad

[curiousuburb]

Alternative tools to diagnose the status of the drive might be:

Diskwarrior
TechToolPro

Both will spot and fix things the Apple Drive Utility and Diagnostics sometimes miss.