[Brave Ulysses]

Apple's willingness to recycle old designs for "new" products is a bit troubling to me.

Love the features of the iPhone SE but looking at it doesn't excite me in any way.... I saw that phone... 4 years ago.


Also... this is clearly aimed at those holding on to 4S, 5 and 5S models.... so its bizarre to me that Apple wouldn't sweeten the deal to entice those buyers and make this 32GB as standard.

[psmith2.0]

I assumed they would've given it that same rounded look as the 6s, but I actually think the 5/5s is easier to hold (that 6/6s always wants to shoot out of my hand, or not "lock in"...I've had 4-5 near-drops while messing with a 6 or 6s, vs. none in the three years I owned by iPhone 5...this yellow 5c of my nephew's is a bit slippery and I've dropped it twice since October ), so despite being a bit boring on the appearance/design front, I know I'll be happy with it.

I'm just thrilled they tricked it out and made my decision really easy!

I was afraid they'd go the cripple/hold-back route and basically just put the guts of the 5s into a 4" 6s style body. But they went and did the opposite, putting 6s guts into a 5s body! That's a way better choice and I'm happy they went with the A9 and all the rest.

They put the 6s in a 5s body. I'm 100% okay with all of that.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 That's all I've been doing since 2007 anyway, so no issue/problem there at all. I've been happy with AT&T all these years, and I'm not the type to go through the hassle of changing carriers every time I see I can save .38 or get an extra chunk of data I'll never use anyway or whatever. It's pretty modest (300MB data, unlimited talk and text). Before anyone freaks out at that "lowly" data allotment, do bear in mind that I'm surrounded by Wifi everywhere - and I mean everywhere - I go or spend time these days. About the only place I'm not around wifi is in my car, while driving...but I'm not messing around with my phone then anyway, so it's a complete non-issue. I'm not on social media (and all that goes with it) so that certainly keeps my data use down (uploading those selfies and meal/craft beer snapshots or video clips via cellular adds up). I'm also not so hard-up for constant entertainment/distraction that I sit and watch YouTube or do other data-gulping activities while on cellular/LTE. So due to all the above, 300MB has always been more than enough (a "high" month for me is 50MB of cellular data usage). I'm totally happy, and served by, my current plan/setup.

The savings aren't trivial - my wife and I went from spending $140/mo for two phones on Verizon to averaging about $40/mo for two phones on Ting, a prepaid provider. You pay more based on how much you use, but if you stay under 500 MB of data per month, the bill should be about $20.

Granted, Ting uses the Sprint and T-Mobile networks, not AT&T. There are prepaid plans available for the AT&T network where you could bring your existing phone, but they're a little more expensive. Like you say, you aren't getting gouged the way many people are and you're happy, plus you should still be able to take advantage of subsidized prices (which aren't available if you're on prepaid). Most people spend way more than $51 a month for their phone plan.

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Apple's willingness to recycle old designs for "new" products is a bit troubling to me. Love the features of the iPhone SE but looking at it doesn't excite me in any way.... I saw that phone... 4 years ago. Also... this is clearly aimed at those holding on to 4S, 5 and 5S models.... so its bizarre to me that Apple wouldn't sweeten the deal to entice those buyers and make this 32GB as standard.

I don't know, I see a lot of people clamoring for a compact smartphone that isn't neutered, and this seems to be just that. So what if it uses an old design? It's so common for "mini" versions of popular phones to have downgraded internal hardware, so the SE is a welcome departure. But I agree that 16 GB isn't enough. And I shouldn't single Apple out in that regard; a lot of Android devices have limited internal storage and SD card slots are becoming rarer (the Nexus 5X and 6P don't have them, and the 5X also starts at 16 GB although the upgrade to 32 GB only costs $50). But it's not really an excuse; 16 GB just isn't enough. It was borderline four years ago.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses i don't know if it's most but even if it is.... i honestly don't know a single Android owner who uses a Micro SD card for extra storage.

Funny... At least among the Android users who I've asked how they like their phone, 100% are either already using the extra storage, or plan to when they run out of built-in storage.

The spread of different "life experiences" never ceases to amaze me. Even just talking to my roommate (he's about 10 years older, but otherwise we're very similar), I can't count the times we'll be talking about something, one of us will make a statement about how `x` works on `y`, the other will say "I've never seen a `y` that does it that way", to which the reply is something like 80% "I've never seen one that doesn't".

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Luca Most people spend way more than $51 a month for their phone plan.

Most people don't even understand or think about the whole wifi vs. cellular thing (every time I'm at the AT&T store, I overhear some irate customer who's come in to ask why their bill is so high, etc.). Turn out they do heavy-lifting/gulping via cellular (and burn through their 1GB or whatever in a matter of days).

You've got those people, and then you've got the complete opposite: those who've been talked into some overkill data package based on nothing more than a salesperson's prodding/recommendation, so they're paying for 2GB and aren't even using 150MB. I've seen that before too.

I've got it easy in that it's just me, and me alone, here or on any bills or plans. I'm not having to split/share some convoluted "Family Data Plan" amongst a couple of teenagers or a selfie-uploading/FaceTiming-over-LTE wife, etc. It's just me, and so I know exactly what's used, when, how, etc. Everything's pretty straightforward and low-key, thank goodness.

[psmith2.0]

I'm assuming since this iPhone SE does the 4K video and all the other things (minus 3D touch) the 6s does, it has the 2GB A9 as well? I know there's no confirmation of this without a tear-down, but what those of you in-the-know on such matters assume that this iPhone SE has the 2GB RAM? Or would Apple create a variant with the older 1GB?

Just curious if that's one of the ways they shaved some $$...

[drewprops]

If there'd been a 128GB I'd have bought one looks like I'll be on the 7 train.

[psmith2.0]

Even though it's a "new" product, I kinda like how it's actually the melding/combination of two existing, proven products (6s guts + 5s housing).

Therefore, I expect zero snags, glitches, bugs, etc.

Apple has no reason to botch the QC on this. We all know how some of their Rev. A offerings go...

[PB PM]

Seriously, no iPad Air 3 for people who have no interest in a iPad "Pro"? Guess I'll hit up the referb store to replace the iPad 3 when the time comes.

The iPhone SE would be nice, but the lack of force touch, which I really like for app switching and moving the curser for typos, is a deal breaker. I'll keep the 6s, even though I like the smaller screen format for it's compact nature.

[addison]

You use force touch to switch apps? I've always found that gesture almost impossible to use.

They did drop the price of the Air 2 to $399 which isn't bad I guess.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by addison You use force touch to switch apps? I've always found that gesture almost impossible to use.

Depends on the case you use I guess, it works fine for me. I like it because force touch is way faster than double tapping the home button.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Worse than that, Cook is pitching iPads as laptop replacements. And he said that this was the last Town Hall product intro. So either the next Mac updates are press release only, or they're coming at WWDC in June.

Yup. It will be a few months at least until we see updated laptops. I could not wait. I went out this evening and bought a 13" MBP Retina to replace my 2009 model. I would have preferred the newest, still-to-come updated version, but I will be fine with the current model.

You know, I would go for an iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, but the software is just not there yet for certain uses. The iPads are certainly on the cusp of becoming powerful enough to function as laptops, but some OS X software just does not have a fully functional equivalent yet in iOS. I do not see that software gap as likely to be filled soon.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by PB PM Depends on the case you use I guess, it works fine for me. I like it because force touch is way faster than double tapping the home button.

I didn't know this was a thing until I read your post above and then googled it. I'm a lefty and this will make switching so much easier for me!

[PB PM]

App switching is a great force touch feature, the salesman at the Apple Store showed it to me the day I bought the 6s. That alone sold me on the 6s vs the 6. Okay not just that, but it didn't hurt.

[kieran]

I kind of forget about using that way. I guess it's just muscle memory to double tap the home button.

[addison]

I can just never get it to work if I'm holding the phone in my left hand and use my thumb. It's impossible. The only way it works is if I use my other hand. Just seems easier to use the home button. Could be my case interfering I guess.

[alcimedes]

So what would you all say the point of this event was?

[turtle]

Tell the Feds Apple wasn't going to back down.

[drewprops]

Moops.

[psmith2.0]

iPhone SE has 2GB RAM.

Yay.

I hoped it would, but we all know how Apple likes to hobble various products so as to not show up their flagship or up-market offerings.

Great news.

With the same processor, graphics and RAM amount as the 6s, would the SE feel a little peppier in certain scenarios, having to drive a smaller display? If all the guts are equal, does the SE have "a little more in the tank" by having fewer pixels to push, etc.?

Or does it not work like that? I don't know, I'm asking.

Can't wait to get my hands in this. I've really missed my iPhone 5, so the notion of going back to that same look and feel - but with the 6s performance, camera and my first experience with Touch ID and Apple Pay - has me quite amped.

Cruising around the internet last night and this morning, it feels like I'm the only person not squawking that they kept this body style.

For the first time in years, it's almost as if Apple contacted me directly and said "what iPhone would you like?"

"Could you please somehow fit a 6s into the 5/5s body and sell it for quite a bit less than I imagined/assumed it would go for?"

"Done."



And, yes...I'll be going with the silver again. A beautiful, Apple-y combination, the silver and white. Never looks trendy or dated like some colors may after 18-24 months.

I'm really glad I held off on the 6s, keeping the faith that Apple would see the error of their ways from 18 months ago and bring back the 4".

Assholes. I could've saved them the hassle if they'd just listened to me in fall of 2014.

"Hey, you're missing a size in this new iPhone 6 lineup...don't be a dick by bringing it back in a year-and-a-half and act like you're doing us a favor."

[turbulentfurball]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 For the first time in years, it's almost as if Apple contacted me directly and said "what iPhone would you like?"

I feel exactly the same way.

I may actually buy this the day it comes out, and I've never done that before.

[Luca]

I think RAM and number of pixels are going to affect different aspects of performance. Extra RAM will help more when switching between apps, while having fewer pixels could mean better graphical performance given equal CPU power (but probably not enough to notice). The differences should be small, especially for the pixel thing.

I've seen some people complaining about the form factor too and I don't get it. First it was small screens only and people whined. Then it was big screens only and people whined. NOW YOU HAVE A CHOICE, KWITCHYERBELLYAKIN!

[psmith2.0]

Exactly. It's very weird.

I've had a legit (IMO) gripe for 18 months, with no new 4" in development with modern guts, etc. But now that it's here, I'm not disappointed or let down that it's in a 5/5s body. Maybe that 5/5s body is one of the nicest-looking smartphones I've ever owned or have seen, so I'm biased?

But now is how it should be (and should've been since fall of 2014)...three good sizes to cover most preferences, tastes, usage habits, budgets, etc. What do people want?

Yeah, it might've been neat to put it in a new, rounded body style (to match the 6s styling), but maybe that's coming next year, when they update the SE and it comes in a new iPhone 7-style case? Or, despite giving it modern specs, the fact that it just has a "SE" (and no number) in the name means they're okay with having it look different (and are doing so on purpose). Maybe this is just what the 4" iPhone will look like for years to come, while the larger, flagship "number" models get the redesign every two years? Again, I've got no problem with that as I think the 5/5s is a great-looking phone. As long as they put the latest guts it in (within reason), it'll be a great phone

Apple gave people what they wanted (or what some thought they wanted, as it turns out) in 2014 (larger iPhones). Where they messed up with rolling out the two new sizes only and telling all the people who liked (or, due to various reasons involving mobility, hand size, dexterity, etc., actually needed a 4" iPhone) the 5/5s/5c to go climb a tree. That was just a boneheaded, presumptive move on their part, IMO.

But now they've addressed it. Nobody could seriously have been expecting some new, redesigned iPhone 7 (or iPhone 6s SE) yesterday (and if they were, they're an idiot and the problem is with them and not anything Apple did or didn't do yesterday), so all that could really happen - and all that was rumored - was a 4" iPhone.

In fact, this was the most non-surprise Apple media event ever...everything the rumor/news/podcasts/blogs predicted or expected is exactly what happened! 4" iPhone (some even knew/predicted the "SE" naming), a new 9.7" iPad, some watch bands, etc.

Hey, I'm just happy they didn't roll out some shitball, emo/hipster shoe gazer band to atonally warble/feedback their way through some musical exercise in rampant, unhinged pussydom.

Small miracles...cherish 'em!

We just didn't know where/how it would be priced or positioned. But as it turns out, it was priced better than we could've hoped, spec'd better than I was assuming it would've been, and we now know it replaces the 5s.

[PKIDelirium]

They finally killed one of the outdated models (Air 1), now they really need to kill off the Mini 2. Only iDevice left other than the iPod Touch without a Touch ID sensor.

[psmith2.0]

Has anyone here ordered the iPhone SE? If so, what are you upgrading from?

What color/capacity did you go with, and when is your arrival date?

My stepmom ordered online yesterday, replacing her iPhone 4(!)...I figure she's in for quite a treat! The five-generation jump in processor (and all that entails) should be quite noticeable.

I heard that the 64GB models were running low, but she ordered a 64GB space gray SE and it's arriving next Thursday, on the 31st. Maybe the rose gold and other colors in the 64GB are selling more.

I'm gonna pull the trigger myself in the next week or two. I, as I've always done, will opt to do it in person so I can ask/clarify a few things on the AT&T/plan end (I know all about the phone itself, but I always like to do purchases in-store, in person because AT&T sometimes gets a little cute and vague with their plans, activations, etc.).

I'll get the silver 16GB. Perhaps 2-3 years from now, the iPhone (8?) will have some sort of "infinity pool" design to where the 4.7" model is virtually bezel-free, and holding/using it will feel about what a 5/5s/5se does in the hand?

[Luca]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Perhaps 2-3 years from now, the iPhone (8?) will have some sort of "infinity pool" design to where the 4.7" model is virtually bezel-free, and holding/using it will feel about what a 5/5s/5se does in the hand?

That's sort of what the Galaxy S7 Edge has. The left and right sides of the phone are curved and the screen actually wraps around, partially. It doesn't serve any functional purpose but it does make the screen feel like it's taking up a larger portion of the face.

The hard part is getting the top and bottom shrunk down. This seems to be LG's thing, with the G3 onward. Tiny bezels on those phones, on all four sides.

Is it really better though? A smaller bezel means the phone is harder to grip without accidentally touching the screen. There's already software built into all these phones that attempts to filter out incidental touches, but it's not perfect. It makes it harder to touch the edge of the screen precisely, and more difficult to do a swipe-from-edge gesture. Have you ever tried to hand your phone to someone to show them something? It's really hard to do without them bumping the sides of the screen. A little cushion is good. It also makes the screen more durable.

In the same way that I prefer a phone that is thicker and heavier if it means better battery life, I'll take a bigger bezel over a small one. I won't be bothered by the extra size (or slightly smaller screen assuming the same case size), but I will appreciate the other benefits. One of my favorite phones I've owned was a Nokia Lumia 810, a thick, heavy, chunky Windows phone. Built like a tank.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Apple gave people what they wanted (or what some thought they wanted, as it turns out) in 2014 (larger iPhones). Where they messed up with rolling out the two new sizes only and telling all the people who liked (or, due to various reasons involving mobility, hand size, dexterity, etc., actually needed a 4" iPhone) the 5/5s/5c to go climb a tree. That was just a boneheaded, presumptive move on their part, IMO.

No it wasn't boneheaded at all. It was 100% planned and executed to perfection. 5S users were still one-year into contract and three sizes would have been a logistical nightmare. It would have meant 50% more SKUs and more assembly lines. It would have completely messed with how Apple retains the old flagship as more affordable option. There has not been a point since the iPhone 5 release when a 4" phone has not been available.

By waiting 2 years, Apple let the iPhone 5S die a natural death, leaving the door open for a 4" replacement. It all went like clockwork.

The new 4" iPhone arrived half a year later than I predicted, but that's more because Apple effectively created a half tier by continuing to offer the 5C into late 2015.

Originally Posted by Eugene I still see the 2015 4" iPhone having "last year's" guts, but honestly nobody should care. If the 4.7"/5.5" phones have A9s and the 4" model has an A8, it will probably be an even smaller improvement than A7->A8. You might not see the 128GB option on it either...it should be an easy upsell to the 4.7" for buyers who have any reason to own that much storage on a phone.

Originally Posted by Eugene Scenario (A) is not going to happen. No need to scare yourself into a Chicken Little panic. Just like flip phones and dumb phones before them, 4" phones are staying around forever. There's a vast market for them outside of chucker and your sister. All those burgeoning middle-class Brazilians, Indonesians, Indians, Chinese, etc. people have to start somewhere. Manufacturing is also to the point where profit margins on volume phones might see an uptick again. As for developing apps in relation to screen dimensions. There's only four flexible display modes defined by your device and its orientation. There's landscape-normal, landscape-constrained, portrait-normal and portrait-constrained. Right now the iPhone 6 and below are constrained in both orientations, whereas the 6 Plus is portrait-constrained. Developing universal iDevice apps is easier than ever since they finally got around to defining rules for variable displays. To reiterate, the iPhone 4" will continue to be developed in the forseeable future...probably far into the next big paradigm shift, but it will be one upgrade cycle behind for the purposes of upselling the bigger phones. That's not as bad as you think. The A8 in the iPhone 6 is not appreciably faster than the A7 in the iPhone 5S. If you look at Apple's own plot of iPhone CPU power, you'll notice that it tapered with this iteration and will likely continue to taper. If you look at the desktop processor market you'll notice that Intel/AMD CPUs really have not gotten any significant IPC gains in about 3 years. The only strides have been in cramming more cores into the same packages thanks to die shrinks. What's the biggest difference other than the processor going from iPhone 5S to iPhone 6? Apple Pay? 802.11ac? The barometer? This is a very minimal update for even iPhone 5 users. The main reason I upgraded was for the larger screen, 128 GB storage and 3rd-party apps now have Touch ID support. I almost chose not to upgrade.

I assume Apple is going to keep the iPhone SE on an offset update cycle to keep shipment numbers 'pretty' year round and to alleviate supply constraints. This way the iPhone 7 gets a 6-month headstart on the A10 while TSMC can ramp up production. Half a year ago's guts seems like a good compromise.

[turbulentfurball]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Has anyone here ordered the iPhone SE? If so, what are you upgrading from? What color/capacity did you go with, and when is your arrival date?

I've not pre-ordered, but I'm going to try my luck on launch day at the Apple Store in downtown Montreal after work. They might not have any, but it's worth a try. I'm going to go with 64GB space gray, and if they don't have that, then silver, if not that, then gold. I won't be getting the rose gold.

[psmith2.0]

Let us know how it goes. I'll be curious to hear how the in-store stuff goes (stock, preferred capacity/colors, overall interest, etc.). I may hit up my local AT&T store Saturday, quite possibly to make a move should they have a silver 16GB available...we'll see.

I don't think it'll be a "line-forming" type of rollout/event, but, then again, I've said that about every iPhone release in the past several years and have been monumentally wrong. Some people just like the spectacle and "event" of it all, so showing up at 6:45am to stand in a line, waiting for the doors to open for business - warranted or not - is just part of it to some, I guess? I'm not that hard-up for conversation/interaction with strangers, so I never go that route.

We have two large flagship AT&T stores here in town (once much closer to me than the other...five miles vs. about 15). They usually seem to get pretty good supply/stock (they've surprised me on a couple of occasions over the years). And since this is a bit of a special case (not the larger, high-profile fall 6s release), I'm wondering if the customer interest/response will be there? This might be the first new iPhone that's easily available (in some markets anyway) in-store, starting on opening day?

The people I know who are coming from a 4/4s/5/5s/5c (with the exception of me) have already pre-ordered online and will have theirs by this weekend. Everyone else I know (even casually) already has a 6/6s (or their Plus variant) and most seem happy and not looking to downsize. I know that's just a small, focused sample, but it kinda makes me wonder if your average joe is even aware of these new 4" models, or even knows they're available this week? It'll be interesting to read and hear what Thursday-Sunday are like, in Apple Stores, as well as the various carrier stores and places like Best Buy.

I think it would be pretty neat if I managed to snag one this weekend, in-store. That would be a first, for sure.

[Frank777]

I'm waiting till they're in stock locally.

I'm not in a hurry, and I've never really understood the rush to grab the first batch of production units off the assembly line.