[Satchmo]

Just popped in my head as I was thinking about the next eMac revision. Could Apple do away with CRT(for good this time) by axeing the eMac and simply introduce a low, low end 17" G4 iMac for $999?

Apple will finally have their sub $1K desktop iMac (albeit G4) and would serve the casual user who may not need G5 power, but love the slimline form factor.

Wasn't the eMac essentially what the 17" iMac was supposed to be anyways? Yeah, I know schools love the durability of the eMac, but they also take up a ton of deskspace.

Just wondering out loud.

[Luca]

It's a nice idea, but I'm pretty sure the main expense of the iMac over the eMac is the screen, not the processor, or even the additional technology required to support that processor (cooling, motherboard, memory, etc). That's the only way they'd be able to drop prices on the iMac while giving it a better processor.

They could almost certainly make a G5-based eMac in its current form with the CRT, but Apple already tried that and it didn't work. The iMac has to be significantly better than the eMac, or people won't buy it.

[Chinney]

Could next eMac to be low end G4 based iMac? I doubt it.

I always had the impression that the G4 iMac was a pretty expensive design to build. I wouldn't be surprised if the G5 iMac had lower long-run manufacturing costs than the G4. I really don't see the G4 being the new eMac.

[Luca]

Uh... Chinney you misunderstood. I'm quite sure satchmo is asking whether the next eMac could possibly be the same as the current iMac except with a G4 instead of a G5 (and probably other lower-end components).

[Chinney]

Yup. Looking back at it, I misread his post. I'll keep my thought posted though above about the relative manufacturing costs of the generation 2 vs generation 3 iMac

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by Luca Uh... Chinney you misunderstood. I'm quite sure satchmo is asking whether the next eMac could possibly be the same as the current iMac except with a G4 instead of a G5 (and probably other lower-end components).

I was thinking about this also the other day. From the desktop, all of the lineup looks pretty similar except for the eMac. I've got to think that their plans include an eMac that looks similar to the iMac/Cinema design. I personally think that they'll use LCD screens, but even if they don't the design should have this same 'pedestal' look to it. G4/G5? I dunno.

Seems like they might introduce a new eMac (in the iMac design) at the same time they bump the processors on the iMac line. They could drop the 1.6 G5 in an eMac then? Just making some logical leaps. If they did that, I've got to think that a dual core G4/G5 would be due for the powerbook line. But now I'm really rumoring and speculating. Good thing I'm in the room for it.

[Luca]

I think it's more likely that the next eMac revision will get the 1.5 GHz G4s that the PowerBooks are currently using. Last time Apple tried making the eMac similar to the iMac in performance (using the LCD as the main reason to buy an iMac instead), things didn't go so well.

[DMBand0026]

Yeah, I don't see the eMac form factor changing all that much. It's pretty perfect for schools. Takes up less space than a tower, easier to set up, and cheap. Another good thing is it's cheap. Oh yeah, did I mention it's cheap?

[thegelding]

and sturdy...

kids are dangerous around computers you can knock over or pick up and drop or steal

the current eMac is heavy and sturdy and harder to steal, all things schools like

along with cheap

g

[RBR]

I would think the G4 goose neck/swivel display iMac would be much too easily damaged to be used in an institutional setting.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by RBR I would think the G4 goose neck/swivel display iMac would be much too easily damaged to be used in an institutional setting.

We're talking about the new iMac.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by DMBand0026 Yeah, I don't see the eMac form factor changing all that much. It's pretty perfect for schools. Takes up less space than a tower, easier to set up, and cheap. Another good thing is it's cheap. Oh yeah, did I mention it's cheap?

I was just thinking back to ThinkSecret's prediction about the educational iMac with out an optical drive. The other thing is, they use a pretty cheap CRT for the eMac. I wouldn't be surprised if the price points on cheaply made LCDs are pretty close or even less than the manufacturing costs of CRTs. I sincerely doubt that they'd use the same quality screen on the EDU model of any iMac. I guess I'm saying that without an optical drive and with a cheaper LCD, they might be aiming to hit the price point that way. I'm just going off of what ThinkSecret was rumoring though.

[kscherer]

The existing eMac is still selling pretty well, at least according to Apple. In fact, at the end of the rev2 iMac's run, the eMac was far outselling it. I think that Apple is probably going to keep it around for a while while giving it maybe 2 processor upgrades over the next year or two. They will stick with the CRT display and G4 processor whil offering a low-end G5 iMac sans optical drive (already available to educators, but not through the online store) to schools with deep pockets.

I can pretty much guarantee that a HUGE majority of Apple's R & D is going into the Powerbook and iBook line, with smaller amounts into revised pro machines, new processors (G6 and dual-core G4) and thinking about rev4 iMacs and rev2 eMacs. While eMacs are important to Apple, the current design is perfect now and will continue to perform for at least another year. By the end of 2005, early 2006, the eMac will migrate to low-end G5 processors, along with the iBook.

[oldmacfan]

I think that waiting till the end of 2005 for the eMac to get a G5 is too long, let alone early 2006.

The eMac could easily have a G5 now with all the room inside that case. I do believe that Apple will offer a LCD based eMac at some time in the future, but first the price on LCD's has to drop. Right now 19" CRTs can be had for less than $100. With 15" LCDs going for 2.5-3 times more money. 17" LCDs are goint 3.8-7 times more money. Consumers aren't dumb. They are waiting till the price crashes, and it will sooner or later.

[Matsu]

The eMac needs an LCD before a G5.

For those who say that the CRT makes it durable, I say you've never seen some idiots (of alla ages -- from grade school to Grad school) perch their soda cans atop the CRT.

If schools real cared a whiff about supposed LCD fragility, they wouldn't buy any iBooks.

The Durability/edu angle was pure spin. If there is anything to it at all, by durable, they probably mean heavy and immovable (or at the very least difficult to move/knock over.

That can be easily solved with a nice flat base on a one piece design. Still light enough to steal? Yes. You fix that with a security cable loop.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Matsu The Durability/edu angle was pure spin. If there is anything to it at all, by durable, they probably mean heavy and immovable (or at the very least difficult to move/knock over.

Yeah, they probably DO mean that.

I think that's the whole point. Maybe "durable" isn't the best, most precise word that could've been used...but the back-end reasoning is sound, and I buy it.

I'd trust eMacs over the iMac G4 (or G5) to a room ful of wild, hopped-up nine-year-olds who'd probably eventually go "chrome arm adjustment" crazy.

*SNAP!*

[Messiahtosh]

LOL

Hopped-up!

[applenut]

Originally Posted by Matsu The eMac needs an LCD before a G5. For those who say that the CRT makes it durable, I say you've never seen some idiots (of alla ages -- from grade school to Grad school) perch their soda cans atop the CRT. If schools real cared a whiff about supposed LCD fragility, they wouldn't buy any iBooks. The Durability/edu angle was pure spin. If there is anything to it at all, by durable, they probably mean heavy and immovable (or at the very least difficult to move/knock over. That can be easily solved with a nice flat base on a one piece design. Still light enough to steal? Yes. You fix that with a security cable loop.

perhaps in your mind, but in the real world....the CRT is desirable in schools, as is the eMac in general.

How do I know? My mom has hundreds delivered.

[EmC]

I would like to see the eMac with and LCD. LCD prices have come down a lot. Apple could incorporate one into the eMac, slightly decrease the depth, and with all the extra room they can drop almost any processor they want into it. They can still use a standard combo/super-drive and the built in speakers will no longer wreak havoc on the CRT. I think this could be the next step. Then again who the hell can ever predict this stuff. Maybe apple is telling the truth when they say that the eMac can only stay that cheap with the CRT.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by applenut perhaps in your mind, but in the real world....the CRT is desirable in schools, as is the eMac in general. How do I know? My mom has hundreds delivered.

Well that makes sense. I'm willing to use the experience of a single person to represent everyone.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by sunrein Well that makes sense. I'm willing to use the experience of a single person to represent everyone.

um...i'm referring to the NYC Dept of Education.

that makes sense, ignore one of the largest public school systems in the nation.

for what its worth, berkeley also has all eMacs and G4 towers. No LCD iMacs from what I've seen

[kscherer]

LCDs are an unnecessary expense for schools. They are not really after exceptional design so much as ease of configuration, up-front costs and maintenance costs. Apple has created a very good package in the eMac that meets these criteria as well as any other solution. The G5 is not necessary for internet classes, word processing or any other school activity outside of scientific processing. An LCD has no advantage over a CRT (other than minimal operating costs) and is far more prone to damage by being poked with pencils! The iMac G4 was designed to lure consumers with an out-of-this-world desing that is not eye-catching to budget-minded school administrators, and G5s and LCDs have no place in a classroom full of pre-teen gossipers or teenagers with no games to play.

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by applenut um...i'm referring to the NYC Dept of Education. that makes sense, ignore one of the largest public school systems in the nation. for what its worth, berkeley also has all eMacs and G4 towers. No LCD iMacs from what I've seen

I don't care if your mom was the buyer for the entire NY state school systems, it's still the experience of one person. And *of course* the schools are buying CRT apple computers. It's all that's offered for an eMac. That has everything to do with what's available right now and nothing to do with the viability of an LCD-based eMac.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by sunrein I don't care if your mom was the buyer for the entire NY state school systems, it's still the experience of one person. And *of course* the schools are buying CRT apple computers. It's all that's offered for an eMac. That has everything to do with what's available right now and nothing to do with the viability of an LCD-based eMac.

you can't possibly be this dense....but you're giving me a great laugh by flaunting it so publicly and often.

typical apple user....no grasp of reality.

[applenut]

and btw, Apple lost the NYC Dept of Ed citywide deal with the release of the iMac G4 LCD. After its release NY signed a multiyear deal with Dell.

You really don't seem to know much. But, that's your problem I suppose

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by applenut and btw, Apple lost the NYC Dept of Ed citywide deal with the release of the iMac G4 LCD. After its release NY signed a multiyear deal with Dell. You really don't seem to know much. But, that's your problem I suppose

Right, because the world revolves around NYC.

(Edited for a Mod's comfort)

[Matsu]

Originally Posted by applenut perhaps in your mind, but in the real world....the CRT is desirable in schools, as is the eMac in general. How do I know? My mom has hundreds delivered.

Is she hot? haha

I have in the past had hundreds delivered myself. I worked for a dept. of education. Ergonomic/health guidelines proposed the phasing out of CRTs, even in gradeschool. Schools still want the cheapest seats they can get for a given task, and that means that CRT machines still get bought, but less so.

The last two examples before I moved into something different follow. My university set up a huge computer lab. 300 DELL desktops (all with 15" or 17" LCDs, and 70 eMacs. (at the time we got both for about the same price). Every single employee workstation has an LCD screen. Health guidelines.

A new school addition -- a media arts wing to a local HS -- features a lab comprised of macs, 40 computers -- all eMacs. The library of that same HS is outfitted with DELL machines -- with what sort of displays? LCDs.

The eMac is not desirable in schools. It's desirable in schools that must have a mac based program for whatever pedagogical reason. ie, the media arts program was wowed by iMovie and iDVD; eMac was the cheapest way to get it; thus, they bought eMacs.

eMac sells in spite of the CRT, not because of it, trust me.

[applenut]

Originally Posted by sunrein Right, because the world revolves around NYC. Go fuck yourself. And your mom.

i guess that whole you being ignorant thing hit kind of close to home huh.... that's rough, i feel for ya. hard going through life as a dumbass

s she hot? haha I have in the past had hundreds delivered myself. I worked for a dept. of education. Ergonomic/health guidelines proposed the phasing out of CRTs, even in gradeschool. Schools still want the cheapest seats they can get for a given task, and that means that CRT machines still get bought, but less so. The last two examples before I moved into something different follow. My university set up a huge computer lab. 300 DELL desktops (all with 15" or 17" LCDs, and 70 eMacs. (at the time we got both for about the same price). Every single employee workstation has an LCD screen. Health guidelines. A new school addition -- a media arts wing to a local HS -- features a lab comprised of macs, 40 computers -- all eMacs. The library of that same HS is outfitted with DELL machines -- with what sort of displays? LCDs. The eMac is not desirable in schools. It's desirable in schools that must have a mac based program for whatever pedagogical reason. ie, the media arts program was wowed by iMovie and iDVD; eMac was the cheapest way to get it; thus, they bought eMacs. eMac sells in spite of the CRT, not because of it, trust me.

yes and no. LCDs are definitely favored in higher ed and now HS. It's about all you see these days. For health reasons and especially for power/space savings. But elementary schools are still pretty reliant on CRTs. eMacs are attractive because of that. Yes, it also has to do with the fact that a CRT makes it big and heavy and hard to steal/break. But it also has to do with the fact that CRTs these days are dirt cheap. Unfortunately Apple cuts corners and uses a pretty crappy one. A high refresh rate CRT would be almost as good as an LCD on the eyes I'd imagine under normal school usage. But the cost thing can't be overcome. Elementary schools don't have the same cash as HS and colleges. They expect the computers to be durable and last several years.... probably a bit longer than the normal house computer. People are mentioning iBooks and how they are over taking schools but they are mostly signing deals with middle and high schools. That's a big difference from K-5. The eMac is designed for that. It has a relatively large screen with refresh rates at resolutions that would be most often used in classrooms. It has just what schools need and not stuff they don't. And Apple is able to offer them for extremely cheap (much cheaper than what they show on the online store). The old iMac was the same way. Near the end of it's lifetime, they were being sold to schools for 499 each. It's just different. the eMac with a CRT does serve a person, transitioning it to an LCD doesn't really make much sense at this time or in the near future. It wouldn't be as cheap, as big, as durable, as friendly.....if a school desires an LCD, a new iMac education model meets their needs extremely well and I'm going to take a guess that order in bulk could be had for around 1000 bucks a pop. The eMac sells not because of a mac requirement but because its the only mac that is cheap enough for many schools to justify purchase of.

[LoCash]

*ahem* Clean it up in here.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by sunrein Right, because the world revolves around NYC. Go **** yourself. And your mom.

Is it just me, or has this guy (or girl) gotten a tad too geeked-up? It is amazing how personal Mac users can be. Yes Macs are the coolest machines out there (I know - I am forced to use XP at work, but CHOOSE to use a Mac at home). However, to resort to personal attacks like this is absolutely childish! If you are unable to take personal opinion with a grain of salt, perhaps you should avoid forums and go work on your squint!

No one in here (including me) has driven their point home to such an extent that everyone can agree on a solution. Schools have bought plenty of iMacs and eMacs and iBooks and schools have bought even more plenty of PCs. The Mac schools report much better success than the PC schools so, obviously, Apple is doing something right. The shape and appearance of the machine are nothing compared to the validity of the OS.

Although I do believe Apple should produce an eBook!