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Apple "scaling" FCP apps to gear more toward prosumers...your thoughts?


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Apple "scaling" FCP apps to gear more toward prosumers...your thoughts?
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-19, 07:19

Interesting story at AppleInsider.

Quote:
Apple's Final Cut Studio suite of video post production apps is getting a significant makeover to better target the software to the mainstream of Apple's customer base rather than high end professionals.
I don't know if these changes are going to leave those "high end professionals" behind, but that's hard to imagine Apple completely abandoning such an important, bread-and-butter segment.

Besides, I thought Final Cut Express was that middle-ground, "more than iMovie, not quite Final Cut Pro" solution that was affordable and relatively approachable by mid-level, semi-experienced users?



I'm missing something in all this.

The article above also talks about Apple hiring new interface designers for their pro apps.

If they "dumb" Final Cut Pro down (and give it some sort of wacky iMovie '08-like makeover), there are going to be zillions of pissed off folks out there. I don't even want to imagine the caterwauling and gnashing-of-teeth that will ensue.



I thought FCP and its accompanying apps were the "standard", used by many out there. And they've got workflows and processes in place that probably won't respond well to a completely retooled suite.

I was kinda joking the other day when I talked about the people who whined that Apple wasn't focusing on their Mac and pro segments anymore, now that the iPhone and iPad are out there. But damn, when I read stories like this one, like with the ongoing Mac Pro delays, I have to wonder...



Five years from now, will there just be an iMac, a notebook line, pods, phones, pads and consumer and "prosumer" software titles from Apple? High-end pros will have to look elsewhere, both for hardware and software?

Surely not? Say it ain't so.

Anyway, just curious to hear what folks here who use the above think about such news? I'm kinda surprised there wasn't already a thread on it, as the story was on both AppleInsider and MacRumors last night.
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bassplayinMacFiend
Banging the Bottom End
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2010-05-19, 07:27

I saw this article this morning and it shocked me. Of course, I still use iMovie HD for video editing and only use the newest iMovie for easy YouTube video conversion / upload.
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jdcfsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2010-05-19, 07:30

The only way I see this happening is if there is another completely pro-level product released as well, like a Final Cut Pro or something like that. I can see them wanting to better bridge the gap between iMovie and FCS, but eliminating the pro-level all together is highly unlikely. It's probably just Apple Insider trying to get web-hits.

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2010-05-19, 07:31

Well, it's hard to know for sure exactly what they will do with it and if it meant less features, then yes, that's a bad thing. But if it's just fixing the UI - I see it as a good thing all around.

Just because they're now targeting prosumer instead of professional doesn't mean it can't be a professional tool. In fact, I'd argue that if they succeed in making it so easy that even a pizza-faced teenager can whip out something decent without any training, it means it's now much easier for the professionals to whip out something really awesome. There's no glory to being masochistic - just because you had to edit pixels with a steady hand doesn't mean it has to be a better output than when you use a magic button.

The real trick in this, though, is whether they continue to let you edit pixel by hand as well as pushing the magic button. If that were the case, I don't think professionals should be concerned (other than having more competition from the said pizza-faced teenagers. )
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-19, 07:32

iMovie '09 has it all over '08, that's for sure. I never really liked the previous iMovies, just because they seemed a little klunky and unnecessarily complex (for me).

I never hated iMovie '08 (like so many others did), except for the fact that so many usable effects, transitions and other features were missing. Those were all restored (and then some) in iMovie '09, so that's what I use now and get really nice results (IMO).

But I know the Final Cut way is more what pros are accustomed to and have built around. I'm afraid if Apple goes and shakes that tree, and does to pros (money-making pros who truly do this stuff for a living!) what they did to consumers in August 2007 (iMovie '08), it ain't gonna be pretty.

Unless I'm just reading things wrong, or they've got some new "pro" level version planned that's eve...nah, that just doesn't make sense either, now that I type it. The story is pretty damn clear-cut, isn't it? They're overhauling/tweaking/refocusing their FC apps...

EDIT: Good points, Banana. An improved, easier-to-use interface is fine (but it shouldn't be such a complete 180 that people lose time and work, in those particular fields, getting their heads around it). But when I hear "focus on prosumers", I take that to mean "funky, high-end features that only professionals ever use will be unceremoniously jettisoned". But that's just me...

Kinda like the difference between Photoshop Elements and Photoshop...Elements is mostly there, minus CMYK separations, channels(?), etc. (I'm going on memory from previous years...for all I know, the latest Elements has everything Photoshop CS2 or 3 has?)

jdcfsu, I thought Final Cut Express filled that role?
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jdcfsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2010-05-19, 07:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
jdcfsu, I thought Final Cut Express filled that role?
It does, but I would say it has a stigma attached to it. This may be my own personal bias, but all the dumbed-down prosumer hybrids just seem like cheep after-thoughts to me. This goes for Photoshop Elements, Final Cut Express, etc. If I'm going to use a product, I want it to be the best there is to offer. So I'd rather stick with iMovie because it's the best consumer offering, and because I can't afford Final Cut Studio, than get something watered down. Maybe I'm alone in my assumption, but making the 'real' version more obtainable makes sense to me, but like I mentioned above, only if they aren't leaving the real pros out to dry (which I find highly unlikely).

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-19, 07:51

I'd like to believe they wouldn't do that. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they did.

The one encouraging thing is this little blurb from the MacRumors.com story on this:

Quote:
Steve Jobs was recently questioned about the fate of Final Cut Pro. MacSoda sent an email to Jobs asking about layoffs and the future of the application. Jobs replied:
"We certainly do [care about Pro apps]. Folks who left were in support, not engineering. Next release will be awesome."
That could just be RDF hype, but the fact he specifically mentions "pro apps" and the next release being awesome...

Hmmm.

I don't know.



In any case, the more important thing to take from this is now that anyone can write Steve (and reasonably expect an answer back ), now's the time to ask him about those MacBook Air updates!
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2010-05-19, 14:20

Hmm. I read the article as more of Apple wanting to revamp their UI to be a little easier for the prosumers, not that Apple is gutting their Pro Apps. It's true, the Apple Pro apps are a little daunting afa interface if you're not accustomed to that sort of thing. Though, I wouldn't want them to change too much up. I think the option to go between Basic/Advanced/Pro ala DVDSP is about as much as they need to cater to anyone new. To go in and revamp the look completely is a double-edged sword. The pros will hate it, and the newbies will still have a fairly large learning curve to take advantage of everything.

Meh. I don't know. What I would like to know is where Shake stands in all of this. I could see them offering it as a part of the next FCP Studio update, honestly, ala Color and Cinema Tools.

So it goes.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2010-05-19, 14:34

Yep.

This is an excellent analysis (which basically rips the AI article to shreds).
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MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2010-05-19, 16:39

Apple responded to CNET about this earlier today:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20005409-37.html
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2010-05-19, 17:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL View Post
Yep.

This is an excellent analysis (which basically rips the AI article to shreds).
Not really sure how that rips AI to shreds. It goes on and on about the history of the product but then falls apart at the end. Apple has focused on and made a lot of money on a lot of things in the past decade... most of which they seem to not care about now as they are primarily focused on being a consumer electronics company. It would not surprise me in the least if FCP suffers and is refocused, Apple doesn't seem to give a shit about anything on the Mac side anymore, nevermind the pro portion of the market.
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MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2010-05-19, 20:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
iMovie '09 has it all over '08, that's for sure. I never really liked the previous iMovies, just because they seemed a little klunky and unnecessarily complex (for me). [snip]
Wow, really!? I absolutely LOVED iMovie HD 6. I found it really intuitive, easy to use, and fun. When they "upgraded" it to iMovie '09 or whatever it's called now it became completely unusable. I am 100% a consumer-level video editor and iMovie '09 is way too "consumery" (dumbed down) for me! In fact, I haven't made a single movie in iMovie '09 because, to me, it's so ridiculously frustrating and unintuitive.

I've been on the fence about purchasing Final Cut Express for a while now, just because it's so much more like iMovie 6 was (but obviously a lot more powerful.) The price is putting me off though. Maybe if it went on sale

But the fact that Apple is using the guy who headed the iMovie HD-to-iMovie '09 devolution to refocus Final Cut Pro has got me really worried about the future of Final Cut by, you know, pro users. I fear there may be bloodshed.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-05-19, 20:16

I did things in iMovie HD (and previous versions), so I was able to use it. But it just didn't seem so intuitive and provide such quick, real-time feedback.

iMovie '08 was quite bad, as it was a new interface and the omission of a bunch of useful features. But iMovie '09, while keeping the quirky new interface, also gave us back the goodies, and I then felt more compelled to dive in and embrace it all.
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