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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2023-08-09, 10:41

Apparently Russia is constructing a village for Americans who want to live in a so-called Christian nation. I say let him go be mayor of that shithole with as many of his cultists who want to follow and he can leave the rest of us alone.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2023-08-09, 12:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I liked a thing I saw the other day about how lots of Trump supporters were complaining that the indictments violated Trump's rights - but the indictments and trials actually affirm his rights. In many other countries, if you fail to successfully execute a coup, there isn't much of a "trial" afterwards
Yes, you get stood up against a wall, with a blindfold and a Marlboro. I think such a thing should be more widely-accepted and catch on.

I watched Tom Cruise's Valkyrie the other night, and that ending, even though against our heroes, is more what to expect. At least in some places or certain periods of time. Now we gotta deal with lawyers, endlessly, and all their nonsense. I'd start with them on the "up against a wall" business.

There's a nobility about when you're caught/nailed that you just kinda man up and say "yeah, you got me...and what the hell are you gonna do?" and then, whatever their response is, just take it.

Hiding behind 85 lawyers seems a little pussified and kinda admitting you're wrong/guilty, in my eyes. But I'd expect no less from this fat-ass cretin and graceless boor.
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PB PM
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2023-08-09, 14:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Apparently Russia is constructing a village for Americans who want to live in a so-called Christian nation. I say let him go be mayor of that shithole with as many of his cultists who want to follow and he can leave the rest of us alone.
They don’t need to, middle America is already there outside the big cities.
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chucker
 
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2023-08-09, 17:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Hiding behind 85 lawyers seems a little pussified and kinda admitting you're wrong/guilty, in my eyes. But I'd expect no less from this fat-ass cretin and graceless boor.
Sure. But there’s a beautiful (if naïve) idealism to giving the worst people in the world the same kind of legal rights as everyone else.

I don’t want execution for him, or prison rape, or torture. I want him to go somewhere where he can reflect on where he went wrong. I don’t expect him to do that, and my gut says he doesn’t deserve leniency, but we ain’t apes.
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psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2023-08-09, 20:59

I got a bit of ape in me.

He’ll never reflect on anything. He doesn’t have that in him. We would’ve seen it by now.

I just wish he (and his ridiculous, meatheaded worshippers) would all just go away. Where? Anywhere out of DC, out of the reach of cable news cameras and microphones. If that’s even possible in 2023.

Jailing him only makes him a martyr and “stronger” to the red hat crowd, when they can say their “innocent, misunderstood leader” has been wrongly, falsely impressed and he becomes, God help us, some some of warped, twisted Mandela type figure. I’ll just have to fly my little ship to Neptune and wait it out for a few years. I won’t be able to stick around for that idiocy.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2023-08-09, 23:46

I’d like to say that next year’s RINO’s will be the first group in American history to elect a common criminal to the White House.

Alas, they will just be the first group to do it with a bullhorn.
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Matsu
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2023-08-10, 08:47

America has to show it's ruled by law. It's really now or never.
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psmith2.0
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2023-08-10, 08:51

…and the upcoming election is the most important one we’ve ever had. I’ve heard that phrase for 30+ years, every four years. It’s right up there with athletes/coaches saying they came to play, knew what had to be done and everyone gave 110%.

The Cliche Hall of Fame.
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Matsu
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2023-08-10, 08:57

I guess I'm just a sap. The powerful have been getting away with it forever, so what's one more?
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PB PM
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2023-08-10, 09:00

America’s strength is supposed to be the checks and balances built into the system, but as time has shown it’s also a great weakness. Rather than being used to protect the people, it’s used to protect those with power.
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Kickaha
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2023-08-10, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Jailing him only makes him a martyr and “stronger” to the red hat crowd, when they can say their “innocent, misunderstood leader” has been wrongly, falsely impressed and he becomes, God help us, some some of warped, twisted Mandela type figure.
It'll give him time to write a book about his philosophies. He can call it "My Struggle".

Oh, who are we kidding, he's barely literate.
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kscherer
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2023-08-10, 17:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
America’s strength is supposed to be the checks and balances built into the system, but as time has shown it’s also a great weakness. Rather than being used to protect the people, it’s used to protect those with power.
America's strength is its checks and balances.

Its weakness is social media.
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PB PM
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2023-08-10, 20:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
America's strength is its checks and balances.
American's greater strength is it's armed forces, every thing else, meh. American democracy is just as broken as the rest of them.
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Ryan
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2023-08-14, 22:55

41 counts, 19 defendants.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...dictment64.pdf

Last edited by Ryan : 2023-08-14 at 23:13.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2023-08-15, 00:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

As deplorable as Twitter was and is, at least it provided a very public paper trail for several of these acts. It still feels so surreal to me seeing tweets in formal court documents like this.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2023-08-15, 07:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
30 unindicted co-conspirators. That's a lot of people handing over the goods to save their own asses.

Also, unlike the Fed court proceedings, this (or these, depending on if they're tried together or not) courtroom drama will be televised.

[edit]: Willis said she will try the 19 defendants together.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2023-08-15 at 08:25.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2023-08-15, 13:23

While I'm not going to assume Trump's guilt (innocent until proven guilty and all), this is going to be a serious media circus. GA jumping in and pushing for televised is also going to make impartial jury a tough sell.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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PB PM
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2023-08-15, 14:46

Let’s be real, unless they find a bunch of people who lived in a cave without any communication with the outside world, for the last 10 years, people are going to fall on one side of the trump camp or the other for the most part.
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turtle
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2023-08-15, 14:53

Agreed. Also, really revenant to who gets seated on the jury. Where the GA case is going to be tried (assuming it happens of course) it is a VERY blue part of GA. Wonder if that will impact how unbiased the jury will be?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Ryan
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2023-08-15, 15:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

As deplorable as Twitter was and is, at least it provided a very public paper trail for several of these acts. It still feels so surreal to me seeing tweets in formal court documents like this.
How do you think I feel?
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Kickaha
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2023-08-15, 15:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Agreed. Also, really revenant to who gets seated on the jury. Where the GA case is going to be tried (assuming it happens of course) it is a VERY blue part of GA. Wonder if that will impact how unbiased the jury will be?
No more or less than if it were in a VERY red part of GA.

(I don't think there are any areas of GA that are just 'kinda' either.)
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Kickaha
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2023-08-15, 15:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Let’s be real, unless they find a bunch of people who lived in a cave without any communication with the outside world, for the last 10 years, people are going to fall on one side of the trump camp or the other for the most part.
I may be an outlier here, but while I think he's a con artist and mobster of the lowest kind, I still would demand that the DA provide evidence that is properly vetted, with provenance and pedigree at all stages of the chain, before deciding whether *these* charges are appropriate for conviction.

Y'know. Law and order.
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turtle
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2023-08-15, 15:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
No more or less than if it were in a VERY red part of GA.

(I don't think there are any areas of GA that are just 'kinda' either.)
You are not wrong. My point wasn't in an effort to defend Trump, but point out the reality that it will be near impossible for it to be a fair trial. The process might go along checking all the boxes, but put the trial in rural GA and it would likely be in Trump's favor. Leave it where it is and it is less likely to be in his favor. This is all facts and either side presenting their case or defense of course.

To be clear, I'm making no pretense of his guilt or innocence other than innocent until proven guilty.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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709
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2023-08-15, 15:58

Well, voir dire is supposed to sort all of that out, but given how polarizing this will be there's a danger that a 'feelings over facts' person that has the inability to be objective slips through the cracks.

So it goes.
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PB PM
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2023-08-15, 17:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
I may be an outlier here, but while I think he's a con artist and mobster of the lowest kind, I still would demand that the DA provide evidence that is properly vetted, with provenance and pedigree at all stages of the chain, before deciding whether *these* charges are appropriate for conviction.

Y'know. Law and order.
Agreed. I honestly don’t know how US courts pick the members. I have been called for jury duty before, but I believe the Canadian/British system is somewhat different.
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chucker
 
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2023-08-16, 03:26

Oh yeah, US courts have juries, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
this is going to be a serious media circus.
Indeed. Much as it's ridiculous that election campaigns for November 2024 (that's… another 15 months!) have already started up and burning their millions, I really wish the media actually focused on… that? The issues? Economy, social, climate, immigration, whatever your pet project is? Instead, we're in yet another circus where we're discussing irrelevant meta stories like "this guy really hates Disney!" and "this guy has probably committed crimes". OK, well, that's really weird and/or dumb. But it's not what should be in focus to inform voters.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2023-08-16, 08:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
How do you think I feel?
Do you have an insight into Twitter's process of deleting/storing DMs? This article from last night makes it sound like the special counsel was able to retrieve messages that were in draft form and maybe even deleted.

So it goes.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2023-08-16, 11:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
there's a danger that a 'feelings over facts' person that has the inability to be objective slips through the cracks.
There will actually be 12 people just like that.

In fact, I'm a firm believer that the only way either side gets a fair shake in any of these cases will be if there is an exactly 50/50 split down the political line. One side has to be able to convince the other that either A) the evidence is so overwhelmingly against him that no self-respecting Republican can find not guilty, or B) The evidence is so overwhelmingly in his favor that no self-respecting Democrat could convict him. 12 Republicans will acquit no matter what, and 12 Democrats will convict no matter what.

This is America, and Americans are "damn-the-torpedoes, full speed ahead" party loyalists.

Trump gets off or goes to jail based solely on the political makeup off the jury, and that's it. Guilty or not, his fate hangs on the individual party politics of the jury, and nothing more.

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Last edited by kscherer : 2023-08-16 at 12:45.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2023-08-16, 12:11

What a cynical crock of shit.
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kscherer
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2023-08-16, 12:46

You know I'm right.

There aren't 12 Republicans in the country that are going to convict ol' "I just grab 'em by the pussy!", and there aren't 12 Democrats that won't.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2023-08-16 at 16:16.
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