[Partial]

I have this mouse. I recently discovered how easily I could map my expose settings directly to the mouse buttons.

I have the button that looks like a play button do the "All Windows" functionality.

I have the backwards play button do the "desktop" functionality.

This has greatly improved my productivity, and it is wonderful.

You can also do this on the Mighty Mouse, but it is significantly tougher to grip the sides of the mouse and make it happen. I have that set-up at work, and while its nice, I prefer my home set-up with the logitech mouse.

[Maciej]

Looks like a pretty good setup. What are those two silver knobs on top by the scroll wheel? If they are buttons, have you got them mapped for anything?

[Partial]

No, I don't have those mapped. They're not nearly as convenient as the thumb buttons on the left side of the mouse. I highly recommend this set-up!

[Swox]

Hmm... I just tried to reassign my buttons on my logitech mouse (it's probably about 3 or 4 years old), and it doesn't give me any options for reassigning mouse buttons. Now I feel impoverished...

[Partial]

System Preferences -> Expose and Spaces -> Expose tab in the middle of the page, the far right drop-down menus. It should work!

[Gargoyle]

Not sure if that's a newer version, but it's the same as mine, apart from the colour, and its a Logitech MX518 if anyone wants to look for one.

The buttons by the scroll wheel alter the sensitivity of the mouse (directly in the hardware of the mouse), they are not mappable.

All the others are. I have:-

• The small top button - Spaces
• The forward arrow - Exposé desktop
• The back arrow - Exposé all windows

Until I got this Logitech, the only other mouse that came close was the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0.

[Mac+]

I used to love my MX1000 from Logitech, which I guess was a precursor of sorts to this. I had it set up similarly and found the functionality wonderful. I do remember having the scroll wheel click (depressing the scroll wheel) set up to send items to the trash. Just select and click. Bye-bye.

I seem to recall some grief against Logitech and their driver implementation (or stuff being placed at the System level) which upset users? What was the outcome of that?

[Gargoyle]

Dunno, I don't think I have ever used a mouse driver under Windows or OS X.

[Swox]

Awesome, thanks!

According to the help menu, it's under the "mouse and keyboard" preference pane, which it clearly isn't...

[Kraetos]

The MX518. A favorite of mouse-nerds everywhere, for good reason: it's indisputably the greatest mouse ever made. You can pry mine from my cold, dead fingers.

It looks like you might actually have an MX510. The 510 came in red and blue, the 518 in silver. The 518 is slightly lighter, "twice" as sensitive (800 dpi vs. 1600 dpi) and has hardware sensitivity control buttons. The increased sensitivity of the 518 is hardly noticeable, though. For all intents and purposes, they're identical.

The only complaint I have is the clicky scroll wheel. It would be much nicer if it just freewheeled. I gather some of the newer Logitechs do this, like the Revolution, but I see no point in having a cordless mouse. Only the ridiculously expensive Logitech G series is still corded, and only the $100 G9 is both corded and has the "MicroGear™ Scroll Wheel."

However, I find Mac OS X's mouse mapping options to be terribly limited. I have my side buttons mapped to Back/Forward, using SteerMouse. It's a little pricey, given that this functionality should really be built into Mac OS X, but it's worth it. USB Overdrive works as well, but I find SteerMouse easier to use, more flexible, and more reliable. SteerMouse lets you map the mouse buttons to different functions in different applications as well. It also lets you make a distinction between just using the scroll wheel, and using it when you've clicked it first. I have mine set to scroll full pages when it's pushed down.

In Windows the buttons above and below the scroll wheel (on the 518, not the 510) change the sensitivity of the mouse on the fly. (EDIT: they work in OS X, but SteerMouse disables them. See below.) I've never found this useful. Using SteerMouse, I have the top-center button mapped to Expose and the "minus" button mapped to switch application.

It's a wonderful mouse

Originally Posted by Mac+ I seem to recall some grief against Logitech and their driver implementation (or stuff being placed at the System level) which upset users? What was the outcome of that?

Logitech inexplicably used APE to make LCC work. APE installs things in the /System/Library folder, which is a big no-no. /System is off limits to everyone except Apple.

Versions of APE prior to 2.0.2 caused machines upgrading to Leopard to blue screen after reboot. The problem is, most users who had this problem didn't even know they had APE installed since Logitech installed it without their knowledge.

The end result was, thousands of users had unbootable Macs after upgrading to Leopard because Unsanity wrote a program which irresponsibly installs things in a place Apple explicitly tells developers not to use under any circumstances, and because Logitech irresponsibly used this unsupported hack rather than coding a proper driver.

I don't use LCC. I don't know if LCC still uses APE, but LCC doesn't even work that well. In my book you only get one strike for something like this, though. Especially when there are better alternatives out there.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Kraetos The 518 is slightly lighter, "twice" as sensitive (800 dpi vs. 1600 dpi) and has hardware sensitivity control buttons (which only work in Windows). The increased sensitivity of the 518 is hardly noticeable, though. For all intents and purposes, they're identical. In Windows, the buttons above and below the scroll wheel (on the 518, not the 510) change the sensitivity of the mouse on the fly. I've never found this useful. Using SteerMouse, I have the top-center button mapped to Expose and the "minus" button mapped to switch application.

I believe you are mistaken. Those buttons don't use any of the computer's software to function. Pressing them changes a setting within the mouse itself, so it doesn't require you to install any software in order to use them to change the sensitivity. What confuses me is that you say that despite owning one and using it in OS X... I have always heard, ever since the 518's introduction, that the buttons worked at a level below the OS so you wouldn't need to be running a particular OS version or even install the Logitech software in order to use them. Are you sure?

The point isn't to use higher DPI for more precise mousing in day-to-day use... for that, it doesn't matter. A standard 400 DPI mouse is fine. It's meant for first person shooters. The idea is that a lot of gamers want to be able to change their view angle very quickly without having to lift up their mouse, so they set their sensitivity really high. But then you introduce jitters and it's really hard to aim precisely at anything, so you press the buttons to reduce your sensitivity when you are sniping.

On the other hand, it could also be useful if multiple people use the computer and one prefers a faster mouse than the other. Instant speed adjustment without having to go into your mouse settings every time. Then again, I suppose that's what user accounts are for.

Either way, if you like the shape of the mouse, Logitech still makes plenty of models with that shape. The MX500 and MX510 are discontinued, but the MX518 is still available. You also have the G5 corded laser mouse and the G7 cordless laser mouse. Myself, I have an MX Revolution, which is admittedly a little weird but also very nice.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Luca I believe you are mistaken. Those buttons don't use any of the computer's software to function. Pressing them changes a setting within the mouse itself, so it doesn't require you to install any software in order to use them to change the sensitivity.

In theory you're right, but in practice my cursor speed doesn't change when I hit those buttons in OS X, and it does in Windows. Even when I turn SteerMouse off. (but this shouldn't make a difference given that it's in the hardware to begin with.)

Even when I am playing games, I leave it at top speed. I don't find it hard to be precise even when it's at top speed. Maybe I just have unusually fine motor control from using a mouse so much?

Google tells me that it's inconsistent on Macs. Some users have them working, and some don't. Weird. Could just be confusion between the 510 and the 518, but I know I have a 518 and the buttons don't work for me.

I'm going to reboot without having SteerMouse launch at login. Maybe that will wake the buttons from their slumber. My mouse cant be broken since they work in Windows... weird...

[Luca]

Do you have those buttons configured to do anything in OS X? Maybe if you assign them other functions it disables the DPI changing thing.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Luca Do you have those buttons configured to do anything in OS X? Maybe if you assign them other functions it disables the DPI changing thing.

No, I don't. I have SteerMouse telling them to do other things though.

But, booting without SteerMouse Manager makes the buttons work! I guess SteerMouse disables them, and they stay disabled even when SteerMouse quits. Once I launch SteerMouse, they stop working. Even if I quit the SteerMouse manager, they don't start working again. I have to log out first.

That must mean SteerMouse is smart enough to compensate for these buttons when it's running. They're hardware buttons, so it's not like SteerMouse can turn them off.

Also, Google tells me if you leave those buttons unassigned in SteerMouse and then reboot, they work. Apparently the SteerMouse designers thought of everything

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by Kraetos The end result was, thousands of users had unbootable Macs after upgrading to Leopard because Unsanity wrote a program which irresponsibly installs things in a place Apple explicitly tells developers not to use under any circumstances, and because Logitech irresponsibly used this unsupported hack rather than coding a proper driver.

The strike against Logitech does not come from the *location* of their drivers. Yes, it's true that developers should not touch the contents of /System, but in rare cases it's necessary. Nay, Logitech's fatal flaw was the use of APE which does nasty, unsupported things to *every program* that launches. That's acceptable when users knowingly install the haxies to play with their system.

However, it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to use a third-party hack to solve a problem which can be solved through supported venues. A kernel extension or IOKit driver would have been appropriate. Instead, they chose to silently install haxies. WTF?!

It indicates a severe lack of judgement on behalf of their driver team, and that, ultimately, is why they have entirely lost my trust. If you're pay engineers to do a job, I expect them to do it right. They should have known better.



NOTE: They could at least have handled it like VMware handles MacFUSE: make it an optional part of the install, and inform the user about its exact nature when giving them the choice. Unfortunately for Logitech, it was the crux of their software so they couldn't make it optional. Nothing like that should ever be forced onto users.

[Mac+]

Thanks - this jogs my memory.

What has been the final outcome of this though? Do Logitech still use APE?

And now, an additional question is, and I guess this is directed at you Kraetos since you have a Logitech mouse, is why you support the company? I mean one strike for LCC - fair enough. But it's a hollow admonishment, they still sold you a mouse.

Not sure how it is for ShadowOfGed, but I figure since they have entirely lost your trust, you don't use their products these days?

I'm all for making a stand against poor business decisions but if the company has rectified their ways I'm equally comfortable with giving them another chance.

Just curious.

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by Mac+ Not sure how it is for ShadowOfGed, but I figure since they have entirely lost your trust, you don't use their products these days?

Their hardware is good (I have a mouse), but you won't find me installing Logitech drivers on either Windows or OS X. Or Linux, if they swing that way.

I haven't checked if they still use APE, but I bet they do; that's a lot of work to re-invent. Biggest problem in engineering: do it right the first time, because you won't have time to do it better a second time. Even if they had abandoned APE I'd still be wary. They caused a LOT of Mac users grief when they upgraded to Leopard, and that's a pretty hard to forget/ignore.

[Luca]

I have Logitech's drivers installed on my Windows PC and it works without a hitch. They're not as nice as, say, USB Overdrive, but they work just fine and allow me to assign buttons on a per-application basis.*

* The caveat is that a few of the buttons do NOT work on a per-app basis. Only left/right click and the middle button as far as I know. Fine with me really. All the rest can have different functions depending on the app.