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New 23” iMac coming in second half of 2020?


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New 23” iMac coming in second half of 2020?
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chucker
 
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2020-08-21, 02:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
All modern CPU's use boost modes (yes even the A series from Apple), like Intel does. It is more power efficient for simple tasks that only need one or two cores to get those types of things done quickly.
I don’t believe Apple has a boost mode. They have heterogeneous cores, yes, but I don’t think they temporarily clock a core higher.
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PB PM
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2020-08-21, 09:34

One could argue that using fast (high draw) and slow (low draw) cores kind of is a boost mode of sorts. It basically works the same way. Seems to be a common solution in ARM SOC to deal with demanding tasks, but also reducing power use. I know it isn’t the same, the the active function isn’t too far off.
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chucker
 
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2020-08-21, 10:37

Kind of. Intel will soon do that as well, though — Alder Lake will have heterogenous cores, like ARM's big.LITTLE or Apple's Fusion.
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kscherer
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2020-08-21, 11:06

It's one thing to talk about what you're doing, it's another thing to deliver it.

I have no doubt that Intel will deliver.

I also have no doubt that Apple will deliver.

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PB PM
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2020-08-21, 12:18

The doom and gloom sayers for Intel are no different than when they were stuck with the Pentium 4/D. AMD Athlon 64 and the G5 PPC were out performing them and it looked bad. Then Conroe (Core Duo... 2006 MBP anyone) came out of nowhere, then the C2D, and then the Core i5/i7 Series launched and put them back on top. Don’t count your geese before they are cooked!

Apple would switch again to something else if it was beneficial, they’ve done it many times. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have iOS and Mac OS running on all kinds of stuff behind closed doors. In 2006 Intel was the way to go, 2020, ARM Apple silicon. 2030? Who knows.
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turtle
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Formerly turtle2472
 
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2020-08-21, 12:21

Quantum baby!


Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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chucker
 
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2020-08-21, 12:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
The doom and gloom sayers for Intel are no different than when they were stuck with the Pentium 4/D. AMD Athlon 64 and the G5 PPC were out performing them and it looked bad. Then Conroe (Core Duo... 2006 MBP anyone) came out of nowhere, then the C2D, and then the Core i5/i7 Series launched and put them back on top. Don’t count your geese before they are cooked!
Conroe was Core 2 Duo, but yes. Very impressive.

I would argue that both in the Pentium 4 and the Skylake eras, Intel became complacent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Apple would switch again to something else if it was beneficial, they’ve done it many times. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have iOS and Mac OS running on all kinds of stuff behind closed doors. In 2006 Intel was the way to go, 2020, ARM Apple silicon. 2030? Who knows.
I'd be shocked if they don't have prototypes running on other archs, such as RISC-V.
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PB PM
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2020-08-21, 17:24

Yes, I forgot Core Duo was Yonah, not Conroe, the latter was the name that stuck in my mind though. Intel was really counting on the Atom platform going head to head with ARM. They put a lot into Atom, knowing that low power stuff was the future, but it was a flop. They had no meaningful competition in the x86/x64 space for 10-12 years and now it’s all backfired on them at once. It’s likely why they are investing in SSD and compute GPU spaces.

Indeed, I could see Apple wanting to switch to a totally open source, licence free architecture if the performance was there. RISC has a long way to go, even to catch ARM, but given that it has some big name backers from all over the industry there is potential for sure.

turtle, I cannot see quantum computing going main stream, even in ten years. At best it’s a specialty server platform, given the cooling needs. Maybe as a totally cloud based system that uses other traditional hardware as an interface, but not as personal computers.
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turtle
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Formerly turtle2472
 
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2020-08-22, 01:36

Given the push to make everything SaaS I wouldn't be shocked if that really is the route they go. Why have a computer when "the cloud" can do all the work?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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kscherer
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2020-08-22, 12:25

I seriously doubt Apple is doing cloud-based computing. They are putting way too much effort into on-device stuff to backpedal now.
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PB PM
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2020-08-22, 13:42

I can totally see Apple going cloud based. Apple makes more money on the services they provide than hardware, so that would just be the next step. They've already done it will Apple Music, why not the works? Apple want to increase profits, and that's the way to do it.
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chucker
 
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2020-08-22, 15:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Yes, I forgot Core Duo was Yonah, not Conroe, the latter was the name that stuck in my mind though. Intel was really counting on the Atom platform going head to head with ARM. They put a lot into Atom, knowing that low power stuff was the future, but it was a flop. They had no meaningful competition in the x86/x64 space for 10-12 years and now it’s all backfired on them at once. It’s likely why they are investing in SSD and compute GPU spaces.
Yeah, betting big on Atom (so much that they sold their XScale ARM efforts) didn't quite work out either. I'm not enough of an expert on how much of a role it being CISC played in that.

I do wonder whatever happened to Optane/3D XPoint. They pushed it for a while, but I've never ever heard of anyone mentioning it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Given the push to make everything SaaS I wouldn't be shocked if that really is the route they go. Why have a computer when "the cloud" can do all the work?
Privacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I can totally see Apple going cloud based. Apple makes more money on the services they provide than hardware, so that would just be the next step. They've already done it will Apple Music, why not the works? Apple want to increase profits, and that's the way to do it.
Because it would cannibalize their existing hardware, and because they wouldn't be that great at it. This isn't a strength of theirs.

Why would anyone buy a $2000 Mac or $800 iPhone when the software runs in the cloud anyway, so performance doesn't matter, and they can get a $300 Chromebook and $150 Nokia?
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Frank777
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2020-08-22, 18:18

If Apple ever goes the cloud-only route, it will be with an EDU-only product like the eMate 300.
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PB PM
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2020-08-22, 19:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Yeah, betting big on Atom (so much that they sold their XScale ARM efforts) didn't quite work out either. I'm not enough of an expert on how much of a role it being CISC played in that.

I do wonder whatever happened to Optane/3D XPoint. They pushed it for a while, but I've never ever heard of anyone mentioning it?
It's still being developed, I think they released a revision last year, but not sure about that. Problem with XPoint is that it is going head to head with NVMe SSD's, and on price it just isn't worth it. Is is better? Maybe, but it just isn't going anywhere right now. Optane is really only meant to be a fast cache for slow hard drives, like what Seagate did with SSHD's, but not in one package. Kind of a flop me thinks. I think XPoint would be most useful in a server environment, rather than in personal computers. Problem for Intel is that their server platform is under heavy attack from ARM and AMD's EPYC lineup.

Quote:
Because it would cannibalize their existing hardware, and because they wouldn't be that great at it. This isn't a strength of theirs.
I'm sure Apple would still find a way to make the machines that access the cloud system cost just as much. Fancy screens, high end keyboards, and it has an Apple on it. The hardware still has to be able to do the job, and it's Apple the price would be high anyway. But again Apple makes more money from services than hardware, the software as a service would kill any losses from lower hardware sale price. Once it's in the cloud you pay a monthly fee for everything, programs, storage, the OS. They can nail you every month for the cloud, regardless of how long you keep the hardware, so in the end they would come out way ahead on profits. Would it suck for consumers? Yes. Would it suck for security and privacy? Yup. Do shareholders who want the value to go up endlessly forever care? Nope.

Quote:
Why would anyone buy a $2000 Mac or $800 iPhone when the software runs in the cloud anyway, so performance doesn't matter, and they can get a $300 Chromebook and $150 Nokia?
Having a Mac/iPhone etc is as much about it being status symbol for most people now than rather than whether or not Apple's OS's are better or not. People are more than willing to pay a premium for Apple products now, why would that change in the future? For the people who type simple documents and use social media all day, the OS and power of the machine is already practically irreverent now anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
If Apple ever goes the cloud-only route, it will be with an EDU-only product like the eMate 300.
Wow, talk about flashbacks. At first I thought you were talking about the eMac, but that's totally different.

I don't know about Apple only using the cloud just for EDU, it would just be a server version of Mac OS, which they abandon, don't see it coming back.
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kscherer
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2020-08-31, 10:58

iMac rumors, rumors, rumors. This one supports an Apple-designed GPU.
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