User Name
Password

Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
New iMacs
Page 1 of 3 [1] 2 3  Next Thread Tools
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 11:13

All iMacs now ship with an SSD — including the $1,099 21-inch model. Seems a bit overdue. Other than that, the 21-inch hasn't changed at all.

The Pro has changed slightly: the base model is now a ten-core, so the configuration has effectively gained $800 in "value". But it's still Skylake-W instead of Cascade Lake-W, and AMD Vega instead of Navi.

The most changes are with the 27-inch non-Pro: it moves from Coffee Lake Refresh-H to Comet Lake-H, enabling a ten-core option. It brings AMD graphics to Navi. The display now offers TrueTone; there's a $500 nano-texture finish option, similar to the $1000 option on the Pro Display XDR. RAM goes up to 128 GB. The camera is better, particularly in low-light; the mics are better in a similar vein to the 16-inch MacBook Pro.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 11:16

Presumably, they haven't changed the cooling system, which with Comet Lake might be even more problematic (since Intel is effectively boosting performance in prat by adding heat).

It's interesting that they're trying to roll out their nano-texture finish at a broader scale. That's good; it's not a weird one-off for the Pro Display XDR. Maybe in a few years' time, it'll come standard on more devices?

The iMac Pro is even more of an oddball now. This might be a sign that its life is nearing its end. Can't think of a good reason they haven't upgraded it to Cascade Lake-W and AMD Navi by now.

Is the 10 GigE option on the non-Pro new?
  quote
Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-08-04, 12:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post

Is the 10 GigE option on the non-Pro new?
Yes.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-08-04, 12:35

Gah. Even the highest-end 'stock' 27" model comes with only 8GB of RAM. Utterly pathetic. I'm assuming the SSD is still removable/upgradeable, but waiting for confirmation before I even entertain purchasing.

So it goes.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 12:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
The iMac Pro is even more of an oddball now. This might be a sign that its life is nearing its end. Can't think of a good reason they haven't upgraded it to Cascade Lake-W and AMD Navi by now.
I can think of one reason: Apple is investing all of their R&D dollars in Apple Silicon and doesn't care about the iMac Pro any longer. I sure as hell wouldn't buy one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Is the 10 GigE option on the non-Pro new?
No. It was an option in the previous thing. Or maybe it was standard? I just double-checked MacTracker and it was there, but now I forget if it was standard or optional.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 12:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Gah. Even the highest-end 'stock' 27" model comes with only 8GB of RAM. Utterly pathetic. I'm assuming the SSD is still removable/upgradeable, but waiting for confirmation before I even entertain purchasing.
1) Apple's webpage says that the SSD is "not user accessible" but does not say it cannot be replaced. Our assumption is that they are the same board on the 21" so still removable (the T2 chip is still not present in the 21" models, and the T2 does not work with mechanical drives, which are still an option in the 21"). The 27" has a new board and the T2 chip, so those are likely soldered in, which is also why there is no longer a mechanical drive option in the 27".

2) RAM is still super cheap and super easy to replace in the 27", so not a terribly big deal. The 21" is still a pain in the can.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-08-04, 13:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
2) RAM is still super cheap and super easy to replace in the 27", so not a terribly big deal. The 21" is still a pain in the can.
If Apple's RAM upgrade pricing wasn't near-robbery it wouldn't be so rage inducing, but c'mon Apple. 8GB for your highest-end iMac? There isn't an eye-roll emoji big enough.

So it goes.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 13:12

Oh, I know. It's a bit frustrating, but I trust in your unique ability to deal with difficult situations.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-08-04, 13:17

cool down <------------------------> burn it all

I'm about . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^ . . . . . . . . . (for now ).
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-08-04, 13:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Gah. Even the highest-end 'stock' 27" model comes with only 8GB of RAM. Utterly pathetic.
Uh, no. This is exactly the way we want it.

No one in their right mind wants to pay Apple's RAM prices. I would love it if iMacs came with absolutely no RAM onboard.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 13:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
No. It was an option in the previous thing. Or maybe it was standard? I just double-checked MacTracker and it was there, but now I forget if it was standard or optional.
Huh? My Mactracker seems to say it wasn’t an option on the 2019.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-08-04, 13:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
No one in their right mind wants to pay Apple's RAM prices.
Ain't that the truth. Just checked over at OWC, and for what Apple wants to upgrade to 32GB ($600) I can go full 128GB from OWC for the same price. Apple wants $2600 to get to 128GB. What the actual fuck.

So it goes.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 14:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Huh? My Mactracker seems to say it wasn’t an option on the 2019.
Duh. I failed to read the question thoroughly. You were asking regarding the non-Pro.

Duh. Duh. and DUH!!
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 14:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Duh. I failed to read the question thoroughly. You were asking regarding the non-Pro.

Duh. Duh. and DUH!!
Yeah The iMac Pro was the first Mac with it, I think. Then the mini added it as an option, and I think (as BU said) that this is the first time you also get the option on the regular iMac.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-08-04, 14:42

Apples going to love it when we go to Apple silicon, we may no longer have an option to get third party RAM, then they can go back to charging even more than they do now, just like in the good old days.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-08-04, 14:45

I'm looking forward to seeing the teardown, and learning if everything but the RAM upgrade is really locked down because of the T2.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 15:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Apples going to love it when we go to Apple silicon, we may no longer have an option to get third party RAM, then they can go back to charging even more than they do now, just like in the good old days.
Interesting. Apple's RAM prices did not rise when they started soldering it on with the MacBook Air and then the MacBook Pro. They have remained pretty consistent, even with the 27" iMacs where the user can install their own RAM.

Not saying Apple's prices are cheap, but they haven't gone up just because soldering is used.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 15:48

So did they add HDD controlling to the T2?
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-08-04, 16:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
So did they add HDD controlling to the T2?
27" iMac's are SSD only so no issues with the T2.

I am tempted to trade up given the faster 5700 XT GPU over my Vega 48. My parents are still chugging along on their Late 2009 27" iMac which is long EOL'd. If that thing dies next year or so, they might get stuck with a Gen 1 product. It may be smarter to see if they are interested in going to my 2019 iMac and I bump myself to the 2020.

giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2020-08-04 at 16:59. Reason: grammar
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-04, 17:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
So did they add HDD controlling to the T2?
No. They don't need to. The T2 is only in the 27". The 21" did not get that upgrade, and the 27" is now SSD only. No mechanical drive options.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-04, 18:04

Yeah, I got confused by something they said on Upgrade.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-08-04, 19:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Interesting. Apple's RAM prices did not rise when they started soldering it on with the MacBook Air and then the MacBook Pro. They have remained pretty consistent, even with the 27" iMacs where the user can install their own RAM.

Not saying Apple's prices are cheap, but they haven't gone up just because soldering is used.
I’m talking about a long time ago, when RAM for Macs only worked for Macs. I doubt they’ll move away from standard DDR configs, but who knows. Considering current Apple RAM prices are doubt retail price, for the same DIMMs, it can’t get much worse. I did get Apple to factory upgrade my 2018 Mac Mini because I couldn’t be bothered buying another new set of tools just to open the thing up, and at the time Apples prices were much closer to retail.

I feel bad for people getting the entry level 21” iMac today, still shipping with a dual core 7th gen i5 chip -7360U - (from 1st Q 2017, and still selling that sucker at full price) way to penny pinch Apple. It’s not even about the speed, I suspect those things are getting close to EOL, so unless Apple stocks up you are screwed if the thing dies.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-08-05, 00:47

I know almost nothing about ethernet. Is there any benefit to a home/small business user to getting the new 10 Gigabit Ethernet port?

Is it in use in any cable or home fiber modems?
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-05, 01:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I know almost nothing about ethernet. Is there any benefit to a home/small business user to getting the new 10 Gigabit Ethernet port?

Is it in use in any cable or home fiber modems?
Your Internet probably doesn’t quite exceed one Gig yet.

But locally, if you’re a heavy user among multiple computers, yeah, it may be worth it. You’ll need good enough cabling, a capable switch, and each computer needs it (or you’re back down to 1 GigE). All of those are more expensive, whereas 1 GigE has long become commodity.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-08-05, 01:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Your Internet probably doesn’t quite exceed one Gig yet.

But locally, if you’re a heavy user among multiple computers, yeah, it may be worth it. You’ll need good enough cabling, a capable switch, and each computer needs it (or you’re back down to 1 GigE). All of those are more expensive, whereas 1 GigE has long become commodity.
Thanks for the explanation.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2020-08-05, 03:06

I'll also add that Apple's $100 is actually quite competitive. PCIe cards on Amazon seem to be $100-150 (but you can get a 2.5 Gb one for cheaper instead; I believe Apple's products automatically support that speed as well). USB or Thunderbolt external ones seem hard to come by and more like $200-300. Switches (you'll need one of those) also seem to range $150-300.

If you don't find yourself transferring a lot of data over the local network, I think it's a bit early. My guess is as 10GigE does become more commonplace (maybe five to ten years from now), Apple will be slow to catch up in terms of pricing, but then eventually just make it standard everywhere.

Now, though, if you're redoing your home, I recommend already putting some Cat 7 cabling in the walls to future-proof it.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-08-05, 09:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I know almost nothing about ethernet. Is there any benefit to a home/small business user to getting the new 10 Gigabit Ethernet port?

Is it in use in any cable or home fiber modems?
As chucker said, it’s good for if you have other non-internet traffic, such as a NAS, that is heavily accessed by users. At this point in time I’d like to see a 2.5GB port option, since you can keep using existing CAT5e/6 cables, so you don’t have to rewire a location, but there are only a few consumer 2.5GB routers, so I can see why they keep 1GB ports. 10GB may be more future proof, but outside of a medium to large business dealing with a lot of internal network data it’s not going to be relevant any time soon. Chances are that most home users will completely abandon Ethernet before 10GB becomes standard equipment.

Even our previous modem still shipped with a 100mb cable, which the provider mindlessly plugged in. Had to replace it with a cat5e to get the internet speed we were paying for.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-05, 11:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I feel bad for people getting the entry level 21” iMac today, still shipping with a dual core 7th gen i5 chip -7360U - (from 1st Q 2017, and still selling that sucker at full price) way to penny pinch Apple. It’s not even about the speed, I suspect those things are getting close to EOL, so unless Apple stocks up you are screwed if the thing dies.
I don't feel bad about that machine at all. We have so many customers who buy Macs for literally nothing but web surfing and solitaire, and now that thing makes very good sense (it didn't with that pokey-ass mechanical drive). The SSD makes it feel incredibly snappy and "up to date". However, it is a bit overpriced and should be listed at $999. And Apple is never going to price like Windows machines do. Apple makes money, and those guys do not. Keep in mind that the base iMac is very clearly intended for folks who do almost nothing with a computer—not for gamers or photographers or the like. It is a very well positioned machine with a clear purpose for its intended customer's needs.

And it is nowhere near EOL in terms of service and support (although it will be discontinued next year with the redesign, but so will all current iMacs). By law, Apple is required to maintain each system for a minimum of five years after the discontinuation date, so it will be serviceable until at least 2025 (this is why 2015 MacBook Pros just got their service EOL this year—they are now past that 5-year threshold). That's plenty of time. In fact, most of those machines will continue in service up to and beyond 2030. Hell, we're still servicing 2008 iMacs, and even 2005 G5's are still showing up for recycle after 15 years of service. No one is getting screwed here.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-08-05, 14:39

I wasn’t saying the iMac is EOL, and as I said, the speed of the chip is not the issue. I meant the i5 7360U is nearlyEOL. Intel has already started to EOL a number of 7th gen chips, so it won’t be far behind. Still seems like a bad buy, not because of specs, but because you’d likely get a better computer for your dollar once the swap to Apple silicon ships. I know you like it, you are a retailer, and it likely sells well, totally different mindset.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-08-05, 15:04

Oh, believe me, I'm waiting for the Apple Silicon before I spring for a new iMac.

But, I don't really "like" it as a retailer. We make very little money on those things. I much prefer selling big, expensive laptops and 27" iMacs.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 1 of 3 [1] 2 3  Next

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New iMacs! chucker Apple Products 30 2019-04-04 18:49
New 4K and 5K iMacs Brave Ulysses Apple Products 82 2016-09-13 19:59
What to speculate about now? New iMacs! Robo Speculation and Rumors 459 2009-10-20 11:27
iMacs now up to 3.06 GHz chucker Apple Products 100 2008-05-09 16:30
The Next iMacs Metropolis Man Speculation and Rumors 8 2007-01-04 15:07


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2020, AppleNova