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torifile
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Join Date: May 2004
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2020-08-05, 20:37

I decided to buy a new iMac for the first time since 2011 today. I built a hackintosh 3 years ago that I can’t get updated past high Sierra and I’m feeling antsy for Big Sur and messing around with some swift programming. I am entirely doing telemedicine sessions these days and will be for the next 6-9 months at least so getting a better webcam is nice too.

On top of it, I certainly don’t need a laptop since I’m not mobile at all now. And I wanted to be able to play games in Windows. I figure the last intel iMac would be the most capable for that purpose.

I went *big* since I expect it to last me for years (my 2011 iMac lasted until 2018 and could have gone longer if I upgraded it an SSD). 10 core, 5700 xt, 2 TB SSD. I left the RAM alone and ordered 32 gigs from OWC.

I fudged a little and used the Edu store. I don’t feel bad about it since my kids are both home schooling for the first semester at least. What a weird time to be alive.

I should get it in a couple of weeks.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
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2020-08-05, 23:28

Congrats Sammy - enjoy!
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Frank777
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2020-08-06, 01:06

I'll likely wait for the teardown to see how "locked-in" everything is, but my iMac has gone farther than I ever thought possible and will need to be replaced soon.
If I can, I'll wait for Big Sur to come pre-loaded.

Maybe the 21" model will be unveiled by then and we'll have a sense of what the 27" remake will look like.
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PB PM
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2020-08-06, 07:51

I have a feeling that the notebooks will get Apple silicon first, doubt we’ll be seeing an iMac with it till next year. In which case, it will definitely have Big Sur, or maybe even the next gen OS, depending on when it ships.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-08-06, 08:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I have a feeling that the notebooks will get Apple silicon first, doubt we’ll be seeing an iMac with it till next year. In which case, it will definitely have Big Sur, or maybe even the next gen OS, depending on when it ships.
Given the 21.5" iMac didn't see any update at all could give one some thought that the rumored 24" iMac with AS will likely come out late this year or early next year. The 27" got the update probably since the bigger iMac won't transition over until the second half of next year most likely.

giggity
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PB PM
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2020-08-06, 09:17

That would put Apple in a tight spot. They would have to keep the entry level iMac weaker than needs be, to keep the more profitable higher models moving out the door. If the new Apple chips aren’t at least 25% faster it would be a tough sell, since the current gen i5 in that space is 25% faster than the 7th gen in there now.
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torifile
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2020-08-06, 10:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
That would put Apple in a tight spot. They would have to keep the entry level iMac weaker than needs be, to keep the more profitable higher models moving out the door. If the new Apple chips aren’t at least 25% faster it would be a tough sell, since the current gen i5 in that space is 25% faster than the 7th gen in there now.
I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. The iPhone 11 is just as powerful as the iPhones 11 pro and max, despite the significant price difference. I do think that a redesigned chassis is unlikely since people are shallow and *that* would take more sales than an Apple Silicon CPU would.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-08-06, 11:35

Apple is happy to let their own systems cannibalize each other. If a new Apple Silicon Mac launches in the smaller screen first, and that stops bigger screens from selling for a few months, well, that won't matter. Hell, the 2020 10-core 27" iMac is going to rake a lot of sales away from the far more profitable iMac Pro, and I guarantee Apple does not care, because both systems are on the chopping block anyway. They see long term, not short term.

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Last edited by kscherer : 2020-08-07 at 10:47.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-08-07, 10:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I have a feeling that the notebooks will get Apple silicon first, doubt we’ll be seeing an iMac with it till next year. In which case, it will definitely have Big Sur, or maybe even the next gen OS, depending on when it ships.
I doubt that is true. I fully expect a 24” iMac, and possibly the entire iMac line up to switch to Apple silicon this October with a new industrial design that is inspired by the iPad Pro. I also think the MacBook Pro 13” will be updated with Apple silicon.

This is similar to the Intel transition when Apple released the iMac G5 iSight 3 months before release the iMac Intel core 2 duo.

Similar to the Intel transition I think Apple plans to transition as soon as possible and ahead of their projected schedule but is being conservative, particularly for some models like the Mac Pro.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-08-07, 10:51

Well, this is interesting.

So, the 256, 512, 1TB and 2TB models have fixed SSD storage (soldered to the board), but the 4TB and 8TB (also fixed) come with an expansion port for adding further storage. Interesting.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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709
¡Damned!
 
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2020-08-07, 14:17

Ain't that some shit.
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Frank777
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2020-08-07, 14:22

This is why you wait for the teardown. Because there's always something interesting to be found.

When someone pulls it apart, it will be great to see how usable that port is. (Are they saying there's space inside for another SSD?)

The weird thing is that someone with a 4 or 8 TB SSD likely isn't going to open up the machine for years.
It's the folks with the smaller capacities that would actually need expansion.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
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2020-08-07, 14:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
It's the folks with the smaller capacities that would actually need expansion.
The reverse is actually more likely to be true. The 4TB and 8TB options are quite expensive and likely only professional photographers, etc. are going to spring for those things. They are the folks who are going to want/need more storage—and be more likely to want to upgrade. The average joe might have a ton of photos, but those smaller drives are going to be ample for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Also, it appears that the original information is incorrect. The 4TB and 8TB models have a single slot into which the storage is mounted, not a second slot for additional storage as MacRumors has suggested. Still up in the air, though.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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Last edited by kscherer : 2020-08-07 at 15:04.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-08-07, 21:30

And tear down.... Don’t know why I was hoping for some kind of cooling improvement with the increased space with no spinny drive, but nope. But it does appear to have a spot for something to be installed on the board but missing.

https://youtu.be/GIHSyamWnh4

giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2020-08-08 at 06:10.
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Frank777
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2020-08-08, 21:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
And tear down.... Don’t know why I was hoping for some kind of cooling improvement with the increased space with no spinny drive, but nope. But it does appear to have a spot for something to be installed on the board but missing.

https://youtu.be/GIHSyamWnh4
I think that big empty space is where the spinning HD used to be. The SSD is now much smaller and directly on the logic board.

The more I think about how much this model has progressed, the more I believe that Apple Silicon model will have to have a showstopper.

USB4 will be nice, but no-one but me gets excited about new IO ports. I think we're looking at a jump to an 8K-video editing screen.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-08-09, 05:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I think that big empty space is where the spinning HD used to be. The SSD is now much smaller and directly on the logic board.

The more I think about how much this model has progressed, the more I believe that Apple Silicon model will have to have a showstopper.

USB4 will be nice, but no-one but me gets excited about new IO ports. I think we're looking at a jump to an 8K-video editing screen.
I meant the soldering points on the logic board for the slot the 4 TB and 8 TB models apparently have.
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PB PM
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2020-08-09, 09:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
USB4 will be nice, but no-one but me gets excited about new IO ports. I think we're looking at a jump to an 8K-video editing screen.
UBS4 is just USB3 refresh, and if you have a modern Mac with thunderbolt baked in already it’s not different at all. So you are right, nothing to get excited about.

As for 8k, we’ll see. It might depend on Apple’s choice of GPU. Do they go it on their own or stay with AMD? Do they focus on power saving or raw compute power and such.
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Frank777
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2020-08-09, 14:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
As for 8k, we’ll see. It might depend on Apple’s choice of GPU. Do they go it on their own or stay with AMD? Do they focus on power saving or raw compute power and such.
Given that they've been known to be pursuing in-house GPU creation since at least 2016, I think they're going to do it themselves.

Maybe the first-gen of Apple Silicon Macs will keep AMD just to focus on the chip change, but I think the long term trend is clear.
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PB PM
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2020-08-09, 14:40

It will be interesting to see Apple's approach if they do go on their own. Will the computers move towards a SOC like the mobile platform or will they build separate dedicated GPU's, which would be advantageous for memory speed and use. Apple could always split things up, using SOC for entry level machines, and dedicated third party chips for higher end units.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2020-08-09, 22:19

This refresh is clearly a stop-gap. They didn't bother with cooling and space useage because there is no point to it. That case design is done!
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Frank777
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2020-08-11, 00:56

Can you replace the Fusion Drive in a 2019 model with an SSD?

OWC has an SSD upgrade for the 2019 model. But it looks like it voids AppleCare, even if done by a professional.

So the 2020 model isn't THAT much different in terms of Apple policy.
But the inability to upgrade the drives at all will impact the second-hand market a lot more.
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chucker
 
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2020-08-11, 03:44

You should be able to put a 3.5-inch SSD (or a 2.5-inch one with adapter) in there, sure. But the 2020 model has no such connector (the higher-end ones do, but only for half the storage, and it's unclear if you can re-generate the encryption key yourself).
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kscherer
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2020-08-11, 10:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Can you replace the Fusion Drive in a 2019 model with an SSD?

OWC has an SSD upgrade for the 2019 model. But it looks like it voids AppleCare, even if done by a professional.

So the 2020 model isn't THAT much different in terms of Apple policy.
But the inability to upgrade the drives at all will impact the second-hand market a lot more.
Technically, yes. However, the Fusion Drive will break, but there would be no reason to re-fuse it, as the purpose for that is to get the SSD speed—so you would just have 2 SSD's. Plus, the 1TB FD models only have 32GB of SSD, while the larger models are 128GB.

Swapping out the drive would not void the warranty provided it is done by an Authorized Apple Service Provider. Also, I'm pretty sure you can do the work yourself*, but should you cause any damage then the warranty would be voided on the entire computer. There are lots of little cables in there that are easy to break, and I would recommend having a pro do it just for that reason. We do lots of repair work on do-it-yourself-gone-wrong, and those are not covered under warranty. Very expensive mistake!

* IMPORTANT! The little glue strips that hold the display on are finicky little buggers. There are two to chose from: Genuine Apple Service Parts, and 3rd-part replacements. The 3rd-party stuff is nowhere near as grippy as Apple's and we have seen the displays fall out, an accident that not only voids the warranty, but also destroys both the display and the logic board. Genuine Apple Service Parts cannot be sold by Authorized Service Providers unless we install them, so the 3rd-party stuff is your only choice.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Frank777
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2020-08-11, 15:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Technically, yes. However, the Fusion Drive will break, but there would be no reason to re-fuse it, as the purpose for that is to get the SSD speed—so you would just have 2 SSD's. Plus, the 1TB FD models only have 32GB of SSD, while the larger models are 128GB.

Swapping out the drive would not void the warranty provided it is done by an Authorized Apple Service Provider. Also, I'm pretty sure you can do the work yourself*, but should you cause any damage then the warranty would be voided on the entire computer. There are lots of little cables in there that are easy to break, and I would recommend having a pro do it just for that reason. We do lots of repair work on do-it-yourself-gone-wrong, and those are not covered under warranty. Very expensive mistake!

* IMPORTANT! The little glue strips that hold the display on are finicky little buggers. There are two to chose from: Genuine Apple Service Parts, and 3rd-part replacements. The 3rd-party stuff is nowhere near as grippy as Apple's and we have seen the displays fall out, an accident that not only voids the warranty, but also destroys both the display and the logic board. Genuine Apple Service Parts cannot be sold by Authorized Service Providers unless we install them, so the 3rd-party stuff is your only choice.
Good to know. I walked by a 2019 iMac in Costco yesterday and realized it's probably going to be on sale soon. If this machine flames out on me before the Apple Silicon iMacs are out, I may forgo the new nano-coating and just go that route.
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Quagmire
meh
 
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2020-08-13, 12:48

Pulled the trigger. Stuck with the 8 core i7, will upgrade the RAM myself, 5700 XT, and 2 TB SSD.
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PB PM
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2020-08-13, 16:54

So I was just looking at the new iMac's again today and noticed something strange. The entry level 27" model that ships with a 256GB SSD has no options for a larger drive. Seriously Apple?
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Frank777
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2020-08-13, 17:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
So I was just looking at the new iMac's again today and noticed something strange. The entry level 27" model that ships with a 256GB SSD has no options for a larger drive. Seriously Apple?
Yes, current Apple philosophy is that you can't put any ports on the front because they look bad. But within a year or two you will need to connect an external USB drive to add storage space. And another external drive to Time Machine backup both your internal and external drives. Or maybe switch your system to booting and working entirely from an external drive. And buy a stand to raise the machine's height to eye level and add ports you can reach.

Apple prefers AIOs because they are so much easier for newbies to deal with.
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kscherer
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2020-08-13, 17:55

Well, technically yes. But, considering Apple charges $200 to move to 512GB, the next model up is $200 more and includes both 512GB and a slightly bumped processor.

So, they actually do, sort of.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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chucker
 
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2020-08-14, 03:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
So I was just looking at the new iMac's again today and noticed something strange. The entry level 27" model that ships with a 256GB SSD has no options for a larger drive. Seriously Apple?
I noticed that, too, but it doesn't really matter. The next model is the entry one with more storage (and slightly faster CPU).

(It's pretty weird that you can put 128 GB RAM and 10 GigE in it, though. Sure, max out the RAM and networking, but CPU and SSD? Nah!)
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chucker
 
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2020-08-14, 03:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Well, technically yes. But, considering Apple charges $200 to move to 512GB, the next model up is $200 more and includes both 512GB and a slightly bumped processor.

So, they actually do, sort of.
I do wonder why they bothered with this weird distinction.
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