[SpecMode]

Part of that is the deforestation expedition harvesting pine and birch before the entire region gets wiped (once the tools get updated, anyway).

[turtle]

I just got finished going even farther east. It can be pruned too. I figured now was the chance right?

[709]

Unbelievably laggy last night, and getting a block to not reappear turned into the actual game.

Is that a by-product of the world being so large, or that groups of us were pretty far apart on the map?

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by turtle I just got finished going even farther east. It can be pruned too. I figured now was the chance right?

Er. If there any evidence that the map can be pruned? Why would you (or anyone else) do this when we are limited in size and suffer everytime the map gets larger?

It's not a selfish act because there is no benefit, but it is close.

Just to be clear: this is not an attack on you turtle, but rather, there seems to be an unusually high incidence of map expansion recently with the assumption that pruning will be possible. It may well be, but you have to think of the risk-reward -- an oversized world is completely unusable on the RAM disk. This risk isn't worth the limited reward of seeing something different.

Honestly, it might be nice to have the random number used to generate the map, so exploration like this can occur in ssp...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by billybobsky Er. If there any evidence that the map can be pruned? Why would you (or anyone else) do this when we are limited in size and suffer everytime the map gets larger? It's not a selfish act because there is no benefit, but it is close.

In the past 24 hours, the world size has grown by almost 50%. We are now at 90% usage on the RAM disk.

While I plan and hope to be able to trim the world, I have yet to prove that it *can* be done post-1.3. I have some good ideas but no actual proof.

[SpecMode]

Not sure if you've seen this already, but according to this forum thread, apparently MCEdit has been updated to support the region format used in Beta 1.3. Might be worth a look.

[Brad]

I have looked into MCEdit and it doesn't really do what I want. I might look at it again tonight to be sure.

[Bryson]

It claims to be able to

Create, delete, and light chunks. Prune away all of the chunks outside the selection.

But the forum chatter says it's very slow in doing so.

There's also an older programme but you have to convert the world back to the old format, delete the chunks, then let Minecraft reconvert it to the McRegion format. That sounds like there's no potential for error.


If we can delete chunks then I'd say kill everything south of the southern tip of Kitty Hawk.

[709]

Well crap. When I mentioned the idea of a hunting-party before the Next Great Pruning™ I thought you were implying "tonight or never." I would've never gone down there had I thought it'd affect server performance for any length of time. My apologies to everyone if I misinterpreted.

I thought we were going to kind of keep it "within bounds" anyway until some of the glitches were worked out. I know it's tough will the promise of virgin soil and awesome natural discoveries, but there's still a lot of land around that hasn't be set upon.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Bryson It claims to be able to But the forum chatter says it's very slow in doing so.

Even if I'm able to delete chunks one by one in the GUI, I'd have to do that hundreds of times AND have a way of automating that on the server. I can't edit the files live on the server. I can't edit the files locally and upload them; I'd have to stop the server for the entire time it would take for me to download, prune, and re-upload the files.

Until now, my workflow has been as follows:

• Download map to local machine.
• Use MC MapDeleter to delete large swaths of the map.
• Create a *list of files* that were deleted.
• Stop Minecraft.
• On the server, delete the files in that list.
• Restart Minecraft.

Because each McRegion files contain 32 chunks, that process doesn't work. I would instead have to delete whole McRegion files, and those things cover about 512x512 surface blocks, assuming the chunks are consecutive.

What I would like to be able to do is extract the individual chunks from the McRegion files, follow my original process, and rebuild the remaining chunks back into McRegion files.

Originally Posted by Bryson There's also an older programme but you have to convert the world back to the old format, delete the chunks, then let Minecraft reconvert it to the McRegion format. That sounds like there's no potential for error.

If this is the same one that the original McRegion author created, which seems to be the one most people reference, it doesn't work. Mojang must have made some subtle changes to his format when adopting it for 1.3 that breaks it. It fails both for me and, from what I've read, other people on the MC forums who tried using it on post-1.3 worlds.

[billybobsky]

Brad,

Do you have the random number used to generate the map?

Could you share it?

....

[709]

So that would generate the world as it was before we set foot on it?

You mean.... I could visit Mushroom *Mountain* ?

[SpecMode]

IIRC, even if you had the seed the original world was generated with, it's still going to be randomized - it wouldn't be exactly the same. It would likely be similar, in that it would probably have the same general terrain, but not an exact clone - just as, when Brad last deleted chunks on the server, the regenerated landscape didn't quite match up with the existing chunks.

I know we've had this discussion before, but it hasn't been mentioned in a while... I'm thinking that, if we really care about keeping this server going long-term, it really needs a better hosting solution, and I'll note that my offer to pitch in to keep the server going still stands.

[Bryson]

Indeed. If the answer is "more RAM" so "bigger RAMdisk" then I'm happy to pay my share.

[709]

Me three.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by billybobsky Brad, Do you have the random number used to generate the map? Could you share it? ....

The number saved in the world's level.dat file is not the same as the string value you can manually enter into the UI as a "seed". The string seed is hashed into the numeric seed, and going the other way is somewhat difficult. So, unless you want to deflate, crack open a hex editor, recompress, and hope for the best, that won't work.

On the other hand, I could extract only the level.dat file and post that for download. The level.dat file contains the numeric seed, the age of the world, and just a few other data structures… and it's tiny.

[RowdyScot]

Count me as 4 for offering to assist for more RAM.

[Kraetos]

Aye, I'd pay for more RAM as well.

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by Brad The number saved in the world's level.dat file is not the same as the string value you can manually enter into the UI as a "seed". The string seed is hashed into the numeric seed, and going the other way is somewhat difficult. So, unless you want to deflate, crack open a hex editor, recompress, and hope for the best, that won't work. On the other hand, I could extract only the level.dat file and post that for download. The level.dat file contains the numeric seed, the age of the world, and just a few other data structures… and it's tiny.

That'd be awesome!

As far as more ram goes -- that isn't an ultimate solution, as the world is likely going to continue to get bigger indefinitely...

[turtle]

So sorry about my adventuring. I took things like 709 did and figured it'd be a good chance to go adventuring before a great pruning.

I have to say the landscape is great near my place and beyond! Sorry for making the situation worse. I'll figure out a way to make it up to you Brad. If my wanderings impacted others negatively then I apologize to you as well. Misunderstanding I can assure you.

[SpecMode]

So, how about a possible compromise: migrate the current world to a specialized Minecraft SMP hosting service (Servercraft is one that caught my eye). Try it out for a couple weeks or so, give it some good load testing, and see how it works. Hell, I'll even spring for the first month just to get the ball rolling.

If it works, we've got a good, stable server to run on, and we take some load off of the AN forum server while we're at it. If it doesn't, we're no worse off than when we started.

[Brad]

I do have other server plans in the wings, but they won't materialize until next week. Please just hold tight until then. Depending on how the tests go then, I will very likely open up the topic of accepting donations to keep it going.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by SpecMode IIRC, even if you had the seed the original world was generated with, it's still going to be randomized - it wouldn't be exactly the same. It would likely be similar, in that it would probably have the same general terrain, but not an exact clone - just as, when Brad last deleted chunks on the server, the regenerated landscape didn't quite match up with the existing chunks.

It's pretty damn close, though. The area around the spawn is nearly block-for-block identical on the surface, as I know some of the coastal features by heart.

Originally Posted by 709 So that would generate the world as it was before we set foot on it? You mean.... I could visit Mushroom *Mountain* ?

Mushroom Mountain!



Apple Store and Castle Bryson!



Mob Hill!



Parapa Desert!



Flaming Mountain!



Sadly, it seems that lava didn't generate on the surface for some reason. So, Flaming Mountain is less so.

Otherwise, they all appear as I originally remember them.

[Brad]

Here's the level.dat for our world, zipped. To use it, go to ~/Library/Application Support/minecraft/saves/, create a new folder "AppleNova", and unzip the file into that directory. Fire up MC, and choose that world in single-player mode. You will find yourself buried in stone and with an inventory. Let yourself die! This is an artifact from importing from SMP. When you respawn, you'll be in the original spawning area. edit: I've replaced with a modified version that restarts you at spawn at time=0.

http://applenova.com/etc/brad/minecr...Nova.level.zip

As for the recent map explosion, I pulled a backup today around noon and compared to the backup I made yesterday afternoon. Below is a comparison, with the red-toned area marking the shape of the map yesterday.

[SpecMode]

Hah! Finally got the world to load (Minecraft would only recognize the level.dat file when I used 7zX to unzip it). Also, managed to survive the initial spawn by digging a shaft with a pick and jumping into the gap - win! Going to go exploring for a bit, now.

[Brad]

Weird. I just zipped it using OS X's built-in archive utility.

edit: Oh, you got the first version? Try the one I edited in.

[SpecMode]

Thanks, Brad...I was having a bit of trouble figuring out where I was. You just couldn't be carrying a compass with you when you made that first save, could you?

It's like walking around in an alternate dimension...a pristine copy of the pre-developed world, but with subtle differences, like having birch trees in the area around the spawn, and lots more big trees since they had a much greater spawning rate starting in Beta.

I know what I'm going to do next, though... Make a copy of the world folder, and then do a re-enactment of the Great Forest Fire!

Addendum: Actually, I'm just shamelessly poking around on Peaceful, looking to see just how exact a copy the world is. Not seeing any differences (aside from the lack of lava at Flaming Mountain) - for instance, the spider spawner near Creepersville is, presumably, in exactly the same spot (and the chest held a music disc, to boot!).

[turtle]

Originally Posted by Brad ...

It was me!

Sorry about that guys. I really didn't realize how far I had traveled. I thought I was tracking straight east then up a little to head back west. I guess I was off. There were some really great views though!

Edit: Just loaded the other file in single player and it's really odd to me.

Like a world before time. Pretty cool actually. Thanks for sharing Brad!

[Maciej]

What's bobsky up to?

[turtle]

Opening with 7zX was the only way to get it working on my system too. I think it had to do with the extension getting dropped using the Mac provided unzipper.